Phoenix - Enemy at the Gate! (News & Star)

MoodRacer

Good piece in this weeks News & Star by Phoenix about how Waterford is being squeezed by surrounding counties because they have ministers and we dont. We`ll worth a read. Here`s a snippet:

`It now appears that only the favoured ministerial constituencies will be immune from cuts and cut backs`.

He refers to Howlin and the recent decision to situate the new VEC HQ in Wexford. He then goes on to voice his concerns as to the future of WRH.

Also that Army barracks were closing all around the country by Kilkenny (Big Phil`s constituency) is saved.

He claims that `This Government has embarked on a policy, whether ststed or not, of undermining our city. Our own political reps are just onlookers in a game of how to prevent the emergence of the regional capital that the south east needs`.

`It is utterly galling to read Ms Ciara Conway`s statement distancing herself and her party from the comments of the mayor of Naas, when she is utterly silent on what is happening to our city`.

`Come the next election, I forecast that Ms Conway and probably Mr Coffey of FG will not be returning to the Dáil`.

Strong words but unfortunately true imo.

Sully

Booting out Paudie will hamper any chance of a minister in future. Its unlikely Deasy will ever be given such a position, which was his own making. Ciara is a newbie politically so will probably be waiting a long time before given such a position.

Our only other option would be to go for a Fianna Fail candidate, assuming they are elected in the next general as the government party. Assuming that, who would possibly have any chance of getting such a position when all experienced Fianna Fail TDs are retired?

Marchandire

MoodRacer wrote: »

`Come the next election, I forecast that Ms Conway and probably Mr Coffey of FG will not be returning to the Dáil`.

I tend to agree, but what about Mr Deasy? If anything, he's more of an empty suit than Coffey or Conway, nor has he ever been particularly vocal as a Waterford representative.

I reckon John Halligan is the only decent representative we have at TD level. The rest need to seriously up their game.

Nypd

Marchandire wrote: »

I reckon John Halligan is the only decent representative we have at TD level. The rest need to seriously up their game.

John has a great heart, but I fear as long as he stays independent he will never have the political clout needed to sway the government.

Marchandire

Nypd wrote: »

John has a great heart, but I fear as long as he stays independent he will never have the political clout needed to sway the government.

Look at the Healy Raes - I'm no fan of the little monarchy that family is building down in Kerry, but they've proved what a bit of 'cute hoor' politicking can achieve for a county. No reason other non-affiliated TDs can't follow.

Nypd

Marchandire wrote: »

Nypd wrote: »

John has a great heart, but I fear as long as he stays independent he will never have the political clout needed to sway the government.

Look at the Healy Raes - I'm no fan of the little monarchy that family is building down in Kerry, but they've proved what a bit of 'cute hoor' politicking can achieve for a county. No reason other non-affiliated TDs can't follow.

Healy Rae's had the previous government over a barrel, they needed his vote and he knew it.
Can't see Enda running to any of the independents anytime soon.

Silverado

Marchandire wrote: »

... but what about Mr Deasy? If anything, he's more of an empty suit than Coffey or Conway, nor has he ever been particularly vocal as a Waterford representative.

How much time does he really spend in his constituency? His wife (Maura Derrane) is on RTE afternoon television every day and I presume he is in the Dail. They don't have children so where does he really live. Outside of the sittings in the Dail where does he spend his time?

Chiparus

In the last government , Waterford got a motorway with a toll bridge to nowhere.
Millions were spent on an airport we don't need and our most powerful politicians legacy was evoting machines, and leaving aircorp helicopters with one less door.

Smiley Burnett

Silverado wrote: »

How much time does he really spend in his constituency? His wife (Maura Derrane) is on RTE afternoon television every day and I presume he is in the Dail. They don't have children so where does he really live. Outside of the sittings in the Dail where does he spend his time?

are you serious???? John Deasy lives in Dungarvan!!!!

Teebor15

Millions were spent on an airport we don't need

Elaborate on this please..when were millions spent?

wellboytoo

Chiparus wrote: »

In the last government , Waterford got a motorway with a toll bridge to nowhere.
Millions were spent on an airport we don't need and our most powerful politicians legacy was evoting machines, and leaving aircorp helicopters with one less door.

You would want to take off your blinkers fella, whatever you think politically, the best thing ever happened to this City is the motorway and bridge and ring road, whether it is used to capacity or not is totally immaterial to me, we have it! It brings us into the reasonable commute range of Dublin ( which is Ireland) and makes us a potential player at last.
Cullen has his faults But he looked after Waterford completely whatever you think politically.

fricatus

Chiparus wrote: »

In the last government , Waterford got a motorway with a toll bridge to nowhere.

You could also argue that Kilkenny and Carlow got a motorway, or indeed that Dublin got a motorway. Don't forget that Dublin is the main beneficiary of the motorway programme, as it's got high-quality links to all the main cities now. It would be nice if we had even a half-decent road to Cork or Limerick/Galway.

Chiparus wrote: »

Millions were spent on an airport we don't need...

LOL

I suppose you're technically right, in that it got a million odd per year in capital and operational grants, but when you look at the amount spent on othr airports (Cork is what, €500 million in debt, and loses €14 million a year?), Waterford doesn't seem too bad!

And who the hell says we don't need it? Another poster here some time ago referred to an investment that went to Cork rather than Waterford because of its superior air access. How much are we losing out by not having a better airport with more services? Ryanair have just announced services to Milan, Munich, Paris, etc. from Knock - basically flying into a bog! Kerry also has Ryanair services to Europe. What we need is a runway extension to handle B737s, and then just "spread the legs" for Michael O'Leary!

Chiparus wrote: »

...and our most powerful politicians legacy was evoting machines, and leaving aircorp helicopters with one less door.

OK, so you hate Cullen... good for you! I don't particularly like him either, but as they say, he might have been a cvnt, but he was our cvnt. Now we have Hogan and Howlin making decisions that are popular in their own constituencies, but which undermine our city. A bad position to be in!

fuzzy dunlop

I made a prediction before the election that Paudie Coffey would not be given a cabinet position and was proven right.The FG hacks here made claims that Coffey had a good chance of a ministry based on assurances (Lies in other words). Paudie Coffey or Ciara Conway will not be serious players in Irish politics in the next twenty five years.I would predict Gary Wyse would be another lightweight if FF ever recover ditto David Cullinane The best we can hope for with them is another Brian O'Shea. A junior ministry with very little acheivment. We need to get rid of these two lightweights to send the message out that to win seats in Waterford a high price has to be paid. We did this in the eighties and the result was Cullen who whether or not you love him or hate hime delivered something worth talking about. Before Cullen we spent a number of years with a soft seat that changed from FF to FG to the Workers Pary and then to the PD's (Cullen). He was then poached by FF which benefitted him but more importantly the constituency. We've no chance of pulling of soomething similar by voting Coffey and Conway. They got in because they were unknown quantities. This is not the case any more as they've proven themselves to be just empty suits and media whores.

wellboytoo

I agree with almost everything you say except, I believe they got in because they were the best of a bad lot! We do not have good people running for politics now and I can't say that I blame them, with one, the ridiculous scrutiny they are put under by the press(bastids) and then into a system that if you make the good but hard decisions you are cutting your own throat! Who in their right mind would take that job?

Max Powers

Chiparus wrote: »

In the last government , Waterford got a motorway with a toll bridge to nowhere.
Millions were spent on an airport we don't need and our most powerful politicians legacy was evoting machines, and leaving aircorp helicopters with one less door.

By reading that post, I get the feeling you are an angry young man. You need to start using the ould grey matter a bit more before you start posting rants.

• The motorway is unviersally acclaimed fantastic,
• The bypass and bridge is something we have been fighting for for about 30/40 years here, it may be under-used at the moment but we are in recession and examples such as the M50 in dublin were the exact same.
• That airport is fantastic, London in 50 minutes, very important for business that wants to locate in the south east. Its a pity we missed the boat on getting funding for the runway extension. It is also an efficient airport receives no PSO funding from the government, the only one in the country that doesnt. Our lack of dependency on that maight be the saving of the place. The airport is a God-send for the many south east people who work in the UK and want to come home the odd weekend to see their relatives etc.

One point, the motorway does not give Waterford an advantage over virtually any county in Ireland as nearly all counties have excellent links to Dublin. The M9 alone passes thru Kildare, Kilkenny, Carlow

Silverado

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

are you serious???? John Deasy lives in Dungarvan!!!!

Oh yeah! We haven't seen him in East Waterford since the election.

wellboytoo

Max Powers wrote: »

[/LIST]One point, the motorway does not give Waterford an advantage over virtually any county in Ireland as nearly all counties have excellent links to Dublin. The M9 alone passes thru Kildare, Kilkenny, Carlow

My point was it takes away the disadvantage.

Sully

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

I made a prediction before the election that Paudie Coffey would not be given a cabinet position and was proven right.The FG hacks here made claims that Coffey had a good chance of a ministry based on assurances (Lies in other words).

It was never said by any of the canvass team that I met that Paudie was guaranteed a position. There were no assurances, but weighing it all up many people (not canvassers, but electorate) considered Paudie had a much better shot at it than anybody else. Waterford has a higher chance of getting a FG Ministry (probably Junior at the start) with Paudie and maybe with a new leader, John Deasy. There is nobody else that would come close to be given such a position in Waterford, unelected or elected.

John Deasy was our best bet and should be but that's well out the window now in my opinion but I would hazard a guess and say Smiley will disagree!!

Paudie Coffey or Ciara Conway will not be serious players in Irish politics in the next twenty five years.I would predict Gary Wyse would be another lightweight if FF ever recover ditto David Cullinane The best we can hope for with them is another Brian O'Shea. A junior ministry with very little acheivment. We need to get rid of these two lightweights to send the message out that to win seats in Waterford a high price has to be paid. We did this in the eighties and the result was Cullen who whether or not you love him or hate hime delivered something worth talking about. Before Cullen we spent a number of years with a soft seat that changed from FF to FG to the Workers Pary and then to the PD's (Cullen). He was then poached by FF which benefitted him but more importantly the constituency. We've no chance of pulling of soomething similar by voting Coffey and Conway. They got in because they were unknown quantities. This is not the case any more as they've proven themselves to be just empty suits and media whores.

I personally think only a candidate who is around long enough in Politics will be given a ministerial position. Waterford had people such as O'Shea and Cullen who are now retired leaving a new wave of politicians. Just because we are Waterford and a City does not mean we deserve a cabinet position, its just not how it works. So refusing to vote in a candidate unless they are set wont make a difference. "Leightweights" - what do you expect from backbenchers?! Welcome to the Irish political system. Unless your a Minister, your pretty much worthless. Just gotta use your time well, get as much speaking time, get your point across and get on committees.

Roanmore

Phoenix was a cheerleader for the last Government and he's giving out about the things Howlin and Hogan are doing for the counties they represent but was praising Cullen for doing the same things when it was Waterford.

Chiparus

fricatus wrote: »

You could also argue that Kilkenny and Carlow got a motorway, or indeed that Dublin got a motorway. Don't forget that Dublin is the main beneficiary of the motorway programme, as it's got high-quality links to all the main cities now. It would be nice if we had even a half-decent road to Cork or Limerick/Galway.




LOL

I suppose you're technically right, in that it got a million odd per year in capital and operational grants, but when you look at the amount spent on othr airports (Cork is what, €500 million in debt, and loses €14 million a year?), Waterford doesn't seem too bad!

And who the hell says we don't need it? Another poster here some time ago referred to an investment that went to Cork rather than Waterford because of its superior air access. How much are we losing out by not having a better airport with more services? Ryanair have just announced services to Milan, Munich, Paris, etc. from Knock - basically flying into a bog! Kerry also has Ryanair services to Europe. What we need is a runway extension to handle B737s, and then just "spread the legs" for Michael O'Leary!




OK, so you hate Cullen... good for you! I don't particularly like him either, but as they say, he might have been a cvnt, but he was our cvnt. Now we have Hogan and Howlin making decisions that are popular in their own constituencies, but which undermine our city. A bad position to be in!

I never said I hated Cullen, I certainly would not use the " C " word. The 2nd bridge going over the river is not used - Why: because it confers no advantage over the Rice bridge . It links the New ross road to the Cork road.


The local spat, the parochial battle between Waterford and its surrounding counties is just that. Why are you winging about Wexford having three ministers and Kilkenny one?

Why are you not glad that the South East now has 4 ministers.

If Kilkenny gets money for their hospital it does not mean that Waterford does not get money. The southeast gets the money!

If WRH gets money the south east benefits especially people in New Ross and Carrick!
People who live in Waterford will benefit from these projects just as much as Wexford South Tipp and Kilkenny.

So why are you upset if politicians are fighting to keep services in the south east??


Is it begrudery ?
or parish politics?
Or just small mindedness?

Well Boy??:D

wellboytoo

@ Chiparus You make a big silly ill thought out wrong statement, people pick you up on it and your comeback is to start a completely different argument! are you sure your not an elected representative?

wellboytoo

Roanmore wrote: »

Phoenix was a cheerleader for the last Government and he's giving out about the things Howlin and Hogan are doing for the counties they represent but was praising Cullen for doing the same things when it was Waterford.

Lol he would blow his top at that! a cheerleader for the FFrs, hardly, the whole raison d'etre of the column he writes is to be pro Waterford, gettit?

Chiparus

wellboytoo wrote: »

You would want to take off your blinkers fella, whatever you think politically, the best thing ever happened to this City is the motorway and bridge and ring road, whether it is used to capacity or not is totally immaterial to me, we have it! It brings us into the reasonable commute range of Dublin ( which is Ireland) and makes us a potential player at last.
Cullen has his faults But he looked after Waterford completely whatever you think politically.

reasonable commute range of Dublin -
:rolleyes::rolleyes:

wellboytoo

Chiparus wrote: »

reasonable commute range of Dublin -
:rolleyes::rolleyes:

This is meant to mean something to me?????????????

Finnbar01

Nypd wrote: »

Healy Rae's had the previous government over a barrel, they needed his vote and he knew it.
Can't see Enda running to any of the independents anytime soon.

I'm not so sure about that, what with the current rate of labour TDs desserting the labour party, I give it a few months and Enda will come a crawling.

Chiparus

wellboytoo wrote: »

You make a big silly ill thought out wrong statement, people pick you up on it and your comeback is to start a completely different argument! are you sure your not an elected representative?

No I stand by the statement that the bridge is wrong, perhaps it is where the tolling is on it but hundreds of millions ( 255 mil) spent with little or no return.

The money would have been far better spent developing R+D in WIT.

wellboytoo

Chiparus wrote: »

No I stand by the statement that the bridge is wrong, perhaps it is where the tolling is on it but hundreds of millions ( 255 mil) spent with little or no return.

The money would have been far better spent developing R+D in WIT.

There are many things wrong about the project, like the price, the decision to toll at one end only , not two ends and the middle, which will probably happen quite soon, but building it was , is, and will always be good for this City and County and the southeast, this is certain.

Chiparus

wellboytoo wrote: »

This is meant to mean something to me?????????????

Yes but I will explain ........by saying that the motorway makes Dublin an easy commute you are implying that this makes getting to work in Dublin easier.

i.e. the job is in Dublin.


i.e Waterford is a Dublin Suburb.

If there is anything else to difficult to understand , please ask.:D:D:D:D

wellboytoo

Chiparus wrote: »

Yes but I will explain ........by saying that the motorway makes Dublin an easy commute you are implying that this makes getting to work in Dublin easier.

i.e. the job is in Dublin.


i.e Waterford is a Dublin Suburb.

If there is anything else to difficult to understand , please ask.:D:D:D:D

Mmmm we will pretend you misunderstood what I said, FDI 's don't like moving outside the capital, their arms have to be twisted, they at least want to be able to get there easily, in first world standards, not the bog road we had to bring them down for fifty years.
Comprende?

Chiparus

I agree the old n9 was a disgrace. But it seems to me that most people seem to think the M9 makes getting to work in Dublin easier.
I do not know if the FDI people rank motorway access to Dublin as a reason for investing in Waterford. They invested before the motorway was built they have not since ( although there has been some in Genzyme since it was sold but I dont know if the motorway was the clincher!)

My main truck was not against the motorway, although I would argue the coastal route would serve us better, but against the bridge that cost hundreds of millions.

Black Suir

Sully wrote: »

I personally think only a candidate who is around long enough in Politics will be given a ministerial position. Waterford had people such as O'Shea and Cullen who are now retired leaving a new wave of politicians. Just because we are Waterford and a City does not mean we deserve a cabinet position, its just not how it works. So refusing to vote in a candidate unless they are set wont make a difference. "Leightweights" - what do you expect from backbenchers?! Welcome to the Irish political system. Unless your a Minister, your pretty much worthless. Just gotta use your time well, get as much speaking time, get your point across and get on committees.

I agree, when it comes to places round the cabinet table its important that its the best people that are there, not where you are from.

Bards

Chiparus wrote: »

I agree the old n9 was a disgrace. But it seems to me that most people seem to think the M9 makes getting to work in Dublin easier.
I do not know if the FDI people rank motorway access to Dublin as a reason for investing in Waterford. They invested before the motorway was built they have not since ( although there has been some in Genzyme since it was sold but I dont know if the motorway was the clincher!)

My main truck was not against the motorway, although I would argue the coastal route would serve us better, but against the bridge that cost hundreds of millions.

The bridge itself cost around €35m, the whole bypass cost around €225m, and most of this was financed by the private sector not the taxpayer

road_high

Chiparus wrote: »

My main truck was not against the motorway, although I would argue the coastal route would serve us better, but against the bridge that cost hundreds of millions.

How exactly? Longer distance to Dublin (164.3km via new M9 vs. 185.4km via Enniscorthy), serving just a few counties and no connection to the midlands or the mid-east region . And if/when the Leinster Orbital route is ever built around n leinster, no connection to that.
The toll is the main issue and it's positioning on the Waterford bypass. It was still badly needed.

Chiparus

Bards wrote: »

The bridge itself cost around €35m, the whole bypass cost around €225m, and most of this was financed by the private sector not the taxpayer

Unfortunatly it is was funded by a public private partnership and i am not sure that the private sector provided most of the finance.
If it is not used the taxpayer pays , if it is used by the people of Waterford then they pay.

Either way we have to pay for it.

http://www.waterford-news.ie/news/mhojidgboj/

40,000 use the Rice bridge a day. 5000 use the N25.

fricatus

Chiparus wrote: »

40,000 use the Rice bridge a day. 5000 use the N25.

Yeah, a ridiculous state of affairs. IMO it would make sense to introduce some sort of shadow toll at this stage, so that the government would just measure the amount of traffic on the bridge and pay the tolls based on those numbers.

It's clear the toll is a major disincentive to people to use the bridge. €10 million a year would pay the shadow tolls for 15-20,000 vehicles a day, which I reckon would use the new bridge if it was toll-free.

Surely a price worth paying for lessening the congestion in the city centre? Shur and we paid 750 million there a few weeks ago to gamblers who bought bonds from a dodgy bank that's being wound down, and we're going to pay another billion or so in January. What the hell are we paying our taxes for, if not for improving the quality of life of our city?

Trotter

We're paying taxes so that they can be spent to shore up the local economies of Dublin, Cork, Wexford, Kilkenny.... etc. etc.

We are not on that list, and our TDs know well we're not.

fuzzy dunlop

Sully wrote: »

It was never said by any of the canvass team that I met that Paudie was guaranteed a position. There were no assurances, but weighing it all up many people (not canvassers, but electorate) considered Paudie had a much better shot at it than anybody else. Waterford has a higher chance of getting a FG Ministry (probably Junior at the start) with Paudie and maybe with a new leader, John Deasy. There is nobody else that would come close to be given such a position in Waterford, unelected or elected.

It was inferred by you on this site that Paudie had more than a fighting chance of a position.I said he had no chance. I was right you were wrong.This is the undeniable fact. Paudie might have the best chance of a position in the future but this does not mean he has a worthwhile chance.It is just relative to the other pygmies. Someone else can and should be found to represent Waterford that will actually represent us. An independent is our best bet at this stage.

Sully wrote: »

John Deasy was our best bet and should be but that's well out the window now in my opinion but I would hazard a guess and say Smiley will disagree!!

John Deasy is still the Fine Gael talisman in Waterford. Paudie is not.Within Waterford the core Fine Gael vote is for Deasy that is the elephant in the room for Paudie Coffey.

Sully wrote: »

I personally think only a candidate who is around long enough in Politics will be given a ministerial position. Waterford had people such as O'Shea and Cullen who are now retired leaving a new wave of politicians. Just because we are Waterford and a City does not mean we deserve a cabinet position, its just not how it works. So refusing to vote in a candidate unless they are set wont make a difference. "Leightweights" - what do you expect from backbenchers?! Welcome to the Irish political system. Unless your a Minister, your pretty much worthless. Just gotta use your time well, get as much speaking time, get your point across and get on committees.

We can't wait for Paudie Coffey to serve his time and be given a ministerial position in 2030 if it even happens at all. We need a plan the will deliver within a decade and the best chance to do this is to lance the boil of 2.5 party politics once and for all in Waterford. This is how we ended up with Cullen in a cabinet position for ten years. As for Brian O'Shea he was no comparison to Cullen as he simply acheived nothing worth talking about. As Coffey is doing now. Coffey could do something worthwhile like resigning the whip or at least threatening it in protest of the VEC fiasco. FG desreve nothing in Waterford and they have a record of doubls speak with regard to commitments going back decades which you yourself indulged in here prior to the election. The only way to ensure Waterford is looked after is to put forward a strong independent canditate who could be potentially poached like Cullen was or might find himself in a kingmaker position like Gregory did in the eigties. It's all abot mathematics and Coffey and Conway are to far down the ladder and unknown nationally.

fuzzy dunlop

Roanmore wrote: »

Phoenix was a cheerleader for the last Government and he's giving out about the things Howlin and Hogan are doing for the counties they represent but was praising Cullen for doing the same things when it was Waterford.

Phoenix has plenty of criticism for Fine Fáil.And to be fair to Cullen he made sure Kilkenny and Wexford stayed were not left out for capital spending on roads or projects like decentralisation.The same could not be said for Hogan or Howlin who seem to exist to ensure that Wateford doesn't benefit from anything that can't be justified for their own counties.

Sully

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

It was inferred by you on this site that Paudie had more than a fighting chance of a position.I said he had no chance. I was right you were wrong.This is the undeniable fact. Paudie might have the best chance of a position in the future but this does not mean he has a worthwhile chance.It is just relative to the other pygmies. Someone else can and should be found to represent Waterford that will actually represent us. An independent is our best bet at this stage.

What you are saying above is completely different than what you were saying in your earlier post. I stand over what I said, both then and now. Paudie had and still has a much better and fighting chance of a position than any of the other candidates elected in Waterford.

Jesus, Ciara Conway has more of a chance than an Independent (nothing against her either, its just because she is new on the politics block). Your basing your theory on the Fianna Fail/Green government where Independents were crucial (not given a Ministerial position either) because the numbers were much tighter. This government has a nice majority even with three drop outs so they don't need any help from Independents.

John Deasy is still the Fine Gael talisman in Waterford. Paudie is not.Within Waterford the core Fine Gael vote is for Deasy that is the elephant in the room for Paudie Coffey.

Wasn't a massive gap in their votes ya know, which many expected there would be. I am not saying John is worthless or irrelevant in Waterford politics either. With his relationship with Enda Kenny, I just cant see him getting the position and this is felt by a lot of people.

We can't wait for Paudie Coffey to serve his time and be given a ministerial position in 2030 if it even happens at all. We need a plan the will deliver within a decade and the best chance to do this is to lance the boil of 2.5 party politics once and for all in Waterford. This is how we ended up with Cullen in a cabinet position for ten years. As for Brian O'Shea he was no comparison to Cullen as he simply acheived nothing worth talking about. As Coffey is doing now. Coffey could do something worthwhile like resigning the whip or at least threatening it in protest of the VEC fiasco. FG desreve nothing in Waterford and they have a record of doubls speak with regard to commitments going back decades which you yourself indulged in here prior to the election. The only way to ensure Waterford is looked after is to put forward a strong independent canditate who could be potentially poached like Cullen was or might find himself in a kingmaker position like Gregory did in the eigties. It's all abot mathematics and Coffey and Conway are to far down the ladder and unknown nationally.

Crazy talk, really is. People are trying to move away from local politics in the Dail. Resigning the whip in protest has made **** all of a difference to-date and you think advising any of our TDs to do the same is a good idea?! It puts us further on the back benches and reduces our chances of a Ministerial Position. John Deasy is the perfect example of the Waterford rebel. Voted in each time, topping the poll. Sits in the back complaining. Went out and bashed Kenny. Where is he since the election? Still on the back benches. He was someone who should be given a Ministerial position, being in Politics a long time and his father before him. I think we would all agree he probably would be, but clearly is way down on the pecking order. Its odd that you don't seem to even comment on this.

When Penrose quit over the barracks issue, a lot of people didn't support his move because he quit over local politics. What has he achieved since quitting in his constituency? Nothing. The barracks is still closed and the government went on as normal. When FGs Denis Naughten lost the whip over the Roscommon Hospital closure, there was no U Turn or "Here, come back and we will sort ya out with a Ministerial position and open the Hospital again". The government carried on as normal. Likewise, when Broughan quit nothing changed (yet anyway). Why do you think Paudie quitting would make the blindest bit of a difference?

As you said, you cant wait till 2030. Who says that in the next 20 years we will get a strong Independent up there with the current political climate, hence not needing Coffey? The next election isn't for a few years yet and by the looks of things the climate wont change much.

Chiparus

If you go on population , Waterford had done very well over the last few years.
There was an element of " cute hoorism" . But other counties benefited (cf Kilkenny andM9)
Now the other counties in the southeast are doing better relative to previous.

Many people from Waterford work in other counties in the south east . Many from other counties work in Waterford .

Parts of Kilkenny are surburban Waterford.

The idea of kilkenny getting this or Wexford getting that is just small-mindedness , that seems to be endemic in this city.

You don't see cork people giving out because Tralee is getting a new A&E

Junior

Chiparus wrote: »

If you go on population , Waterford had done very well over the last few years.
There was an element of " cute hoorism" . But other counties benefited (cf Kilkenny andM9)
Now the other counties in the southeast are doing better relative to previous.

Many people from Waterford work in other counties in the south east . Many from other counties work in Waterford .

Parts of Kilkenny are surburban Waterford.

The idea of kilkenny getting this or Wexford getting that is just small-mindedness , that seems to be endemic in this city.

You don't see cork people giving out because Tralee is getting a new A&E

Done well with/from what exactly ?

Chiparus

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Phoenix has plenty of criticism for Fine Fáil.And to be fair to Cullen he made sure Kilkenny and Wexford stayed were not left out for capital spending on roads or projects like decentralisation.The same could not be said for Hogan or Howlin who seem to exist to ensure that Wateford doesn't benefit from anything that can't be justified for their own counties.

It seems to me that Waterford people would rather Cork or Kerry benefits rather than Wexford or Kilkenny.
:rolleyes:

Max Powers

Thats ridiculous, i dont think anybody thinks like that except maybe some rural GAA red-neck, we would all love to see some major jobs happening in Waterford mainly, if not there, somewhere handy where we can get to easily

fuzzy dunlop

Sully wrote: »

What you are saying above is completely different than what you were saying in your earlier post. I stand over what I said, both then and now. Paudie had and still has a much better and fighting chance of a position than any of the other candidates elected in Waterford. .

You claimed previously that you had assurances that Paudie had a good chance of a ministerial position. This has transpired to be Bullsh!t. What your claiming is pure fantasy. We the electorate do not have to adhere to the FG practice of serving your time on the backbenches. There is just too many people ahead of Paudie in the queue in FG alone. It is impossibility when Labour is included. This is a fact that an apolitical person cannot escape from.

Sully wrote: »

Jesus, Ciara Conway has more of a chance than an Independent (nothing against her either, its just because she is new on the politics block). Your basing your theory on the Fianna Fail/Green government where Independents were crucial (not given a Ministerial position either) because the numbers were much tighter. This government has a nice majority even with three drop outs so they don't need any help from Independents. .

I like the way you refer to Ciara Conway as if Paudie was some sort of giant compared to her. He isn’t. In fact she is more successful at making herself known nationally than Paudie has been. Paudie is an unknown outside Waterford never mind the South East. The government will not retain the majority they have by the next election with four Austerity budgets to make. This election result is a historical once off. We will be back to depending on Independents to form a government within five years at the most.

Sully wrote: »

Wasn't a massive gap in their votes ya know, which many expected there would be. I am not saying John is worthless or irrelevant in Waterford politics either. With his relationship with Enda Kenny, I just cant see him getting the position and this is felt by a lot of people. .

If Enda wanted Deasy out of the picture he should have appointed Coffey to a Junior Ministry. The fact that he didn’t just shows how tenuous his grip is on the leadership. There is already a Dublin Faction in the Party that pushed against him. This makes it impossible for Enda to appoint Coffey ahead of a bust of people recently relegated to the backbenches. Another fact you conveniently ignore.

Sully wrote: »

Crazy talk, really is. People are trying to move away from local politics in the Dail. Resigning the whip in protest has made **** all of a difference to-date and you think advising any of our TDs to do the same is a good idea?! It puts us further on the back benches and reduces our chances of a Ministerial Position. John Deasy is the perfect example of the Waterford rebel. Voted in each time, topping the poll. Sits in the back complaining. Went out and bashed Kenny. Where is he since the election? Still on the back benches. He was someone who should be given a Ministerial position, being in Politics a long time and his father before him. I think we would all agree he probably would be, but clearly is way down on the pecking order. Its odd that you don't seem to even comment on this. .

Earth to Sully! Phil Hogan and Brendan Howlin have pulled disgraceful parochial strokes within six months of being in power confirming the fears of many people in Waterford. The Kilkenny People announced Hogans appointment like it was the second coming of Jesus. So the only crazy talk here is the party political fantasy by FG supporters that they are radically different than FF. All Paudie has succeded in doing is followed the party whip which is the usual Irish parochialism. He should have at least made a media statement threatening to resign the whip if this behaviour continued after the VEC fiasco and supported Deasy’s assertion in principle. Instead we got nothing only party loyalty! A safe seat for FG in Waterford.

Sully wrote: »

When Penrose quit over the barracks issue, a lot of people didn't support his move because he quit over local politics. What has he achieved since quitting in his constituency? Nothing. The barracks is still closed and the government went on as normal. When FGs Denis Naughten lost the whip over the Roscommon Hospital closure, there was no U Turn or "Here, come back and we will sort ya out with a Ministerial position and open the Hospital again". The government carried on as normal. Likewise, when Broughan quit nothing changed (yet anyway). Why do you think Paudie quitting would make the blindest bit of a difference? .

Because the difference is we are a large urban centre and can put a sustained argument of good planning etc which Roscommon and Mullingar cannot. Coffey could have brought national media attention to the parochial antics of Big Phil and Howlin on the basis of the moral bankruptcy of closing one hospital OR army Barracks while protecting another purely by virtue of cabinet representation. Coffey would have shown real leadership (like Broughan) and made a statement that he was not to be taken for granted. It would have been a better strategy from his point of view even. Like John McGuinness in FF.

Sully wrote: »

As you said, you cant wait till 2030. Who says that in the next 20 years we will get a strong Independent up there with the current political climate, hence not needing Coffey? The next election isn't for a few years yet and by the looks of things the climate wont change much.

Said like a true FG’r. There could be an election in the New Year for all know. The government still has not passed a budget or made any cuts they can’t blame on FF. They’ve made no hard decisions and already three TD’s have jumped ship. Even at this rate with no cuts the government would not last five years. So your prediction is based on pure wishful thinking on your part. A long time is a week in politics five years is an eternity. We have more than enough time to select or find someone who knows how to play the political game against gombeen rednecks currently populating FG. Yep a vote for Paudie is a vote for the political wilderness!

fuzzy dunlop

Chiparus wrote: »

It seems to me that Waterford people would rather Cork or Kerry benefits rather than Wexford or Kilkenny.
:rolleyes:

History has shown that this is the political vice of Wexford and Kilkenny politicians.Educate yourself.:D

Roanmore

So, it's OK for Cullen to pull stokes because it's for Waterford but when Hogan, Howlin et al do it, it's parish pump politics.
It's this type of thinking that has got this country in the ****, I can't stand what H & H are doing but the crying and moaning going on because it's not Waterford is pitiful.
Somebody earlier said he's pro Waterford, that's incorrect, he's pro Waterford city, he's gone on numerous times about Dungarvan and Waterford County Council being the enemy as much as Kilkenny and Wexford. What happens when Waterford City gets some investment, he'll complain that it's not Ballybeg, Barrack street, etc (insert where he lives).

fuzzy dunlop

Roanmore wrote: »

So, it's OK for Cullen to pull stokes because it's for Waterford but when Hogan, Howlin et al do it, it's parish pump politics.
It's this type of thinking that has got this country in the ****, I can't stand what H & H are doing but the crying and moaning going on because it's not Waterford is pitiful.
Somebody earlier said he's pro Waterford, that's incorrect, he's pro Waterford city, he's gone on numerous times about Dungarvan and Waterford County Council being the enemy as much as Kilkenny and Wexford. What happens when Waterford City gets some investment, he'll complain that it's not Ballybeg, Barrack street, etc (insert where he lives).

Nobody is saying this at all.As far back as 1970 Independent analysis has determined that the best way to develop the country economically,socially and environmentally has been to concentrate investment around the five largest urban centres which includes Waterford.Howlin has made public rants opposing this and for the second time has attempted to asset strip the city for the benefit of his own constituency. Hogan similarly has made statements against the IDA for showing favouritism to Waterford.I mean Jesus wept.If this wasn't bad enough Deasy has done the same. It's this type of peasent thinking that has the country in the sh1t not the insistence that some form of proper spatial planning be adhered to.Name one Waterford politician that has acted the same way.God forbid we start acting like a first world country. This has been identified by historians and planners as the problem and the wishful thinking H&H will not change this.Fine Gael had a once in a lifetime opportunity to acheive this instead its business as usual by making sure the other crowd doesn't "get everything".This is the infuriating thing as we actually have best practice on our side and our politicians are to weak to use this fact.

Chiparus

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Nobody is saying this at all.As far back as 1970 Independent analysis has determined that the best way to develop the country economically,socially and environmentally has been to concentrate investment around the five largest urban centres which includes Waterford.Howlin has made public rants opposing this and for the second time has attempted to asset strip the city for the benefit of his own constituency. Hogan similarly has made statements against the IDA for showing favouritism to Waterford.I mean Jesus wept.If this wasn't bad enough Deasy has done the same. It's this type of peasent thinking that has the country in the sh1t not the insistence that some form of proper spatial planning be adhered to.Name one Waterford politician that has acted the same way.God forbid we start acting like a first .............

I don't recall any rants, nor Examples of him asset stripping - if jobs are kept in the South East , that helps everyone, in the South East.
You don't hear Dublin people give out if Drogheda gets a new A+e.

Trotter

Chiparus wrote: »

I don't recall any rants, nor Examples of him asset stripping - if jobs are kept in the South East , that helps everyone, in the South East.
You don't hear Dublin people give out if Drogheda gets a new A+e.

I think you'd hear about it if everything was moved from Drogheda to Dublin though.. which is closer to the point here.

jmcc

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

The Kilkenny People announced Hogans appointment like it was the second coming of Jesus.

Yeah but they had better be careful about the combined End of the World/Last Judgment/Euro-crash.

And as for Howlin and his abject cronyism, Labour is going to find things very tough in Waterford for the next generation or so. But then, FF is going to beat them in the GE next year. (Whoops - wasn't meant to say that. )

Regards...jmcc

Bards

Chiparus wrote: »

I don't recall any rants, nor Examples of him asset stripping - if jobs are kept in the South East , that helps everyone, in the South East.
You don't hear Dublin people give out if Drogheda gets a new A+e.

Last time fg and lab were in govt, howlin moved the ambulance centre from WRH to Wexford general. If that is not asset stripping I dont know what is

A fg minister moved director of the IDA S.E to Cork to stop "all the jobs going to Waterford" and create a level playing field for all the counties in the S.E some level playing field that turned out to be.

FG,Lab are Gombeen political parties made up of Gombeen politicians.