"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

LXFlyer

The 90 minute transfer ticket has been something that has been planned for some time. It's been mentioned in the Terms & Conditions all along.

It's all part of the gradual roll out - add extra functionality bit by bit, and build the card up.

That really is the next major part of the jigsaw to be added.

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

That's going to take time to change behaviour. Personally I think that they should be making the differential between cash and non-cash fares even greater

I agree but I think they need to add a significant difference in one go, not slightly increasing the difference over time as they have been doing. It'll be politically unpalatable but it's the only way to go to avoid the frog in hot water affect.

lxflyer wrote: »

It's all part of the gradual roll out - add extra functionality bit by bit, and build the card up

I'd wager most of the delays to the card have been trying to get IR and DB to play ball and agree financials rather than any planned project scheduling or technical or implementation timeframes.

LXFlyer

markpb wrote: »

I agree but I think they need to add a significant difference in one go, not slightly increasing the difference over time as they have been doing. It'll be politically unpalatable but it's the only way to go to avoid the frog in hot water affect.



I'd wager most of the delays to the card have been trying to get DB and DB to play ball and agree financials rather than any planned project scheduling or technical or implementation timeframes.

I'd aim for a "big bang" once all the functionality is rolled out.

In terms of rollout, things have been moving along at a reasonable pace since the card was launched - I think technical issues have been the main problem rather than instiutional issues.

I'm not sure why you're singling DB out. All of the operators lose out in terms of fare box revenue, and also have had to bear the additional cost (several millions per annum) of running the back office operation.

Long term there will be benefits, but there is a need to balance out the shocks to the system, i.e. reductions in fare box revenue, while the companies have difficult financial positions.

T-wolf

T-wolf wrote: »

Didn't even think of it actually - plus there's the problem that even if the DB driver can search the card, the Luas validator poles don't have that option.

And don't worry - I'm keeping a track of the fares and they'll be reimbursed..

Folks, might as well give an update (bit slow - it's been a busy day!!)

As suspected - no ticket arrived on my card. Leap card support admit there was a technical problem - Taxsaver tickets didn't upload for sending on to the Leap cards.

So I'm glad I loaded the tenner on after all.

I've been asked by Leap Card support to do another balance check on my card, which i'll do before I head for home. More ominously, i've also been asked to keep track of the expenses incurred (Which is a google sheet with date/time/stop/trip taken) until it gets sorted out. Not exactly a confidence booster to be told that.

I'll add - despite myself and the Office Manager trying all day, no one at DB is answering a phone - directly to Vmail without even ringing.

Guess its now a case of try try try again...

liamog

For the second month in a row my Leap Card has decided to load multiple copies of my TaxSaver ticket onto itself. Its annoying as it makes it slow when using the bus validator. I'm up to 4 now, I guess tomorrow morning it will reach 5 and be full.

T-wolf

liamog wrote: »

For the second month in a row my Leap Card has decided to load multiple copies of my TaxSaver ticket onto itself. Its annoying as it makes it slow when using the bus validator. I'm up to 4 now, I guess tomorrow morning it will reach 5 and be full.

I'm guessing that you're collecting these via the Balance Check in a shop?

liamog

T-wolf wrote: »

I'm guessing that you're collecting these via the Balance Check in a shop?

No Irish Rail Validators, it's the Short Hop Rail and Bus ticket, I'd be mad to do a balance check four times this month already.

Sun in Capri

Am I allowed to ask a back to basics question on the Leap card?

I have an "ordinary" Leap card (maybe there is just one type although I notice some people have their photo ID on theirs, I don't).
On the bus I put it in the scanner in front of the driver and state my destination. What is the difference between doing this and putting it on the scanner where the other tickets go and not stating your destination to the driver?

Julius Seizure

Sun in Capri wrote: »

Am I allowed to ask a back to basics question on the Leap card?

I have an "ordinary" Leap card (maybe there is just one type although I notice some people have their photo ID on theirs, I don't).
On the bus I put it in the scanner in front of the driver and state my destination. What is the difference between doing this and putting it on the scanner where the other tickets go and not stating your destination to the driver?

The other reader will take either a day out of a rambler if you have one stored on the card, otherwise it'll take 2.50 (flat fare of 13+ stages, for example town to Blanch). Once you know your stages, you might find you can use this instead of queuing, which is only for fewer than 13 stages *or* when you don't want to use a day of your rambler. Also, if you know you're going to be going above the daily cap even out of a mixture of small fares, you might as well just hit the flat fare reader on the right as after a certain amount it'll all cost the same

dfx-

I attempted to use my Rambler ticket (loaded onto a Leap Card) starting beyond 8pm tonight.

It staggered me how difficult this seemed to be. Three out of eight drivers knew what I wanted (and what/how to go looking for it) and one of them got the time wrong.

Some drivers had no idea what to do or what it was. Others were trying to deduct credit instead. At times, the driver's machine could not read that there was a Rambler ticket on the card (until they printed the card status where it showed up). How does the driver's machine not recognise it, but the validator does and has for the previous ten days...

Donnybrook lads seemed most 'switched on', Summerhill and Harristown...I may as well have been talking about quantum dynamics. The Phibsboro lad (on a 38) had no interest in listening.

dfx-

dfx- wrote: »

I attempted to use my Rambler ticket (loaded onto a Leap Card) starting beyond 8pm tonight.

It staggered me how difficult this seemed to be. Three out of eight drivers knew what I wanted (and what/how to go looking for it) and one of them got the time wrong.

Some drivers had no idea what to do or what it was. Others were trying to deduct credit instead. At times, the driver's machine could not read that there was a Rambler ticket on the card (until they printed the card status where it showed up). How does the driver's machine not recognise it, but the validator does and has for the previous ten days...

Donnybrook lads seemed most 'switched on', Summerhill and Harristown...I may as well have been talking about quantum dynamics. The Phibsboro lad (on a 38) had no interest in listening.

Read back about what the drivers' machines are, it's mind-blowing.

T-wolf

T-wolf wrote: »

Folks, might as well give an update (bit slow - it's been a busy day!!)

As suspected - no ticket arrived on my card. Leap card support admit there was a technical problem - Taxsaver tickets didn't upload for sending on to the Leap cards.

So I'm glad I loaded the tenner on after all.

I've been asked by Leap Card support to do another balance check on my card, which i'll do before I head for home. More ominously, i've also been asked to keep track of the expenses incurred (Which is a google sheet with date/time/stop/trip taken) until it gets sorted out. Not exactly a confidence booster to be told that.

I'll add - despite myself and the Office Manager trying all day, no one at DB is answering a phone - directly to Vmail without even ringing.

Guess its now a case of try try try again...

OKies - final update I hope.
After 2 more days of doing balance enquiries on my leap card (the shop staff must have thought I was a nutcase) the taxsaver ticket finally uploaded. So that was 3 days total of paying cash rather than being able to use the ticket.

I've saved the details, and went to claim a refund off Luas support. Who pointed me back at Dublin Bus to claim the refund.

So the ticket is sorted, the refund is not.

I get the impression the buck passing shall continue until hell freezes over, or next months Taxsaver ticket is needed!!

LXFlyer

dfx- wrote: »

I attempted to use my Rambler ticket (loaded onto a Leap Card) starting beyond 8pm tonight.

It staggered me how difficult this seemed to be. Three out of eight drivers knew what I wanted (and what/how to go looking for it) and one of them got the time wrong.

Some drivers had no idea what to do or what it was. Others were trying to deduct credit instead. At times, the driver's machine could not read that there was a Rambler ticket on the card (until they printed the card status where it showed up). How does the driver's machine not recognise it, but the validator does and has for the previous ten days...

Donnybrook lads seemed most 'switched on', Summerhill and Harristown...I may as well have been talking about quantum dynamics. The Phibsboro lad (on a 38) had no interest in listening.

Surely you only needed to go to the driver's machine once (given you were starting after 8pm), i.e. on the first trip?

After you've validated it via the driver's machine it defaults to rambler mode and you can use the righthand validator.

Fratton Fred

Does a child need to be 12 to get the 12+ leap card or can she have one at 11, my daughter is 12 in three months, it seems pointless getting her a standard child one.

Seaswimmer

I discovered something else about auto top up over the weekend. One of the family members has a student leapcard which was recently enabled for auto top up. He mostly uses the student rambler loaded on the ticket but has epurse as well for DART, Luas ect

Yesterday he got the bus at 11:00 and as expected it took a day off the student Rambler. It also gave a message that auto top was activated but even though the epurse balance was only €2.85 it didnt top up the epurse. I presume he has to actually carry out an epurse transaction.

I would have thought that ANY transaction would have auto topped up the epurse??

bg07

Seaswimmer wrote: »

I discovered something else about auto top up over the weekend. One of the family members has a student leapcard which was recently enabled for auto top up. He mostly uses the student rambler loaded on the ticket but has epurse as well for DART, Luas ect

Yesterday he got the bus at 11:00 and as expected it took a day off the student Rambler. It also gave a message that auto top was activated but even though the epurse balance was only €2.85 it didnt top up the epurse. I presume he has to actually carry out an epurse transaction.

I would have thought that ANY transaction would have auto topped up the epurse??

Is it the online account history that you are getting the current balance from?

It can take up to 48 hours to update the online account with information due to the nature of the system. If you check the card directly in a Luas or Irishrail machine or at a Payzone outlet if should show the new balance of €32.85. The online account should show the topup by tomorrow.

Seaswimmer

bg07 wrote: »

Is it the online account history that you are getting the current balance from?

It can take up to 48 hours to update the online account with information due to the nature of the system. If you check the card directly in a Luas or Irishrail machine or at a Payzone outlet if should show the new balance of €32.85. The online account should show the topup by tomorrow.

good point...

Online so I will wait. I thought once it showed top up activation it would also show credit applied..

dfx-

lxflyer wrote: »

Surely you only needed to go to the driver's machine once (given you were starting after 8pm), i.e. on the first trip?

After you've validated it via the driver's machine it defaults to rambler mode and you can use the righthand validator.

The driver's machine couldn't see the Rambler though unless you went into card status. It has been used for ten days using the validator so it is on the card - I had to get a print out from the most helpful driver on AX540 proving it was there.

LXFlyer

dfx- wrote: »

The driver's machine couldn't see the Rambler though unless you went into card status. It has been used for ten days using the validator so it is on the card - I had to get a print out from the most helpful driver on AX540 proving it was there.

So are you saying you had to go through 7 drivers before one used a day from the card?

dfx-

I had to go through 4 drivers before the guy on AX540 knew what to do (i.e. look at the card status).

I had to go to the driver for each bus I was using. Had I gone to the validator which I did on AX495 (77A), it deducted the flat fare. Which then had to be refunded by the driver, delaying everyone...

I think three buses I had to organise/haggle for reinstatement of credit. The problem centred around the Rambler ticket being recognised normally by the validator (previous ten days) but not showing up on the driver's machine (unless you went into other menus) and then drivers not knowing what to do.

LXFlyer

dfx- wrote: »

I had to go to the driver for each bus I was using yes. Had I gone to the validator which I did on AX495 (77A), it deducted the flat fare. Which then had to be refunded by the driver, delaying everyone...

I think three buses I had to organise/haggle for reinstatement of credit. The problem centred around the Rambler ticket being recognised normally by the validator (previous ten days) but not showing up on the driver's machine and drivers not knowing then what to do.

I don't know if the day's use was even deducted.

I think you're missing my point. Once one driver validated it as a rambler, and didn't use the e-purse, the card will then stay in rambler mode on the righthand validator and you can use that going forward.

You only needed to go to one driver (or at least one that knew how to do it!).

The card is designed so that after a certain time (I can't be certain what that is, but it's evening time) it will default to the epurse on the righthand validator as the thinking was that travel starting that late was unlikely to cost as much as a day's journey. But if you get a driver to use a day off the rambler product, it will default to rambler mode on the righthand validator for every subsequent trip.

dfx-

My point is I don't think any driver validated it or doubted it was there unless going to the sub-menu.

Buses...

GT113 - driver didn't know what a Rambler was, tried to ask my destination and take credit off.

AX495 - knew what it was, directed me to validator, refunded the flat fare and let me on.

AX637 - went to validator thinking like your point that the card is validated - it deducted the flat fare again. Had to re-queue and be refunded, allowed me on.

GT140 - driver had no idea, said the ticket was not on the card and deducted credit instead.

AX540 - driver knew, didn't think the Rambler was on the card, printed out the card status, saw it as a product on the card and allowed me on.

AX586 - no interest, asked destination and deducted credit despite the print out from AX540.

AX570 - understood the problem, let me on.

GT31 - tried to deduct credit, no idea what a Rambler was, allowed me on.

At least twice I went to the validator and neither time it worked.

LXFlyer

dfx- wrote: »

My point is I don't think any driver validated it or doubted it was there unless going to the sub-menu.

Buses...

GT113 - driver didn't know what a Rambler was, tried to ask my destination and take credit off.

AX495 - knew what it was, directed me to validator, refunded the flat fare and let me on.

AX637 - went to validator thinking like your point that the card is validated - it deducted the flat fare again. Had to re-queue and be refunded, allowed me on.

GT140 - driver had no idea, said the ticket was not on the card and deducted credit instead.

AX540 - driver knew, didn't think the Rambler was on the card, printed out the card status, saw it as a product on the card and allowed me on.

AX586 - no interest, asked destination and deducted credit despite the print out from AX540.

AX570 - understood the problem, let me on.

GT31 - tried to deduct credit, no idea what a Rambler was, allowed me on.

At least twice I went to the validator and neither time it worked.

I think an email to both LEAP and Dublin Bus is needed - I really think they should just leave people use the righthand validator for ramblers all day - if someone with a rambler wants to use the epurse then they can go to the driver. Anyone making a return trip into town in the evening that is over 13 stages will want to use the rambler rather than pay credit.

dfx-

Update: Don't think a day was deducted afterall. Worked as normal on the validator (AV298) before 8pm tonight.

Victor

http://www.irishrail.ie/news/combinedbusrailreplaced

Combined Dublin Bus / Short Hop Zone rail tickets to be replaced by LeapCard from 11th June

10 June 2014

A range of combined Dublin Bus / Iarnród Éireann tickets in the Greater Dublin area are being withdrawn from sale from 11th June 2014. Customers who used these tickets will be able to avail of LeapCard.

As of 11th June 2014, the following Dublin Bus and Iarnród Éireann combined products will no longer be sold at the station.

* Adult 1 Day Rail & Bus
* Adult 3 Day Bus & Rail
* Adult 7 Day Bus & Rail
* Adult Monthly Rail & Bus
* Adult Monthly Rail, Bus & Luas
* Student Monthly Rail & Bus
* Family One Day Rail & Bus
* 7 Day Rolling Bus 90 Luas
* All Dublin Bus Feeder Bus Tickets

For users of 1, 3 or 7 day products, customers who wish to avail of Dublin Bus services in the Short Hop Zone should purchase a Leap Card and benefit from unlimited Dublin Bus and Rail travel within the Short Hop Zone for €10 a day or €40 a week.

Customers using monthly products can still avail of these through Taxsaver LeapCards.

LXFlyer

I have to say that I find some of these changes somewhat disturbing.

The monthly Bus/LUAS, Bus/Rail, and Bus/Rail/LUAS are now only available via the Taxsaver scheme.

What about people who cannot avail of that scheme - that's anyone who is self-employed or indeed whose employer won't participate in the scheme - they will now have to pay more via capping.

Similarly, why is the Family 1 day ticket being withdrawn?

And why are the DART Feeder buses no longer being feeder buses?

These will lead to extra cost for a reasonable number of people.

Spanish Eyes

Will the lack of a day card or even a three day one affect Tourism in
Dublin?

No to mind the rest of us!

Regarding the discrepancies between purses and rambler tickets. I just bit the bullet and paid another fiver.

For the sake of ,my mental and physical well being, I now have two leap cards. One for the purse, and one for the rambler. The purse is used for short one or two hops, the rambler for everything else.

No messing around!

Although I shouldn't have had to do that. Experience has taught me differently.

Carawaystick

lxflyer wrote: »

I have to say that I find some of these changes somewhat disturbing.

The monthly Bus/LUAS, Bus/Rail, and Bus/Rail/LUAS are now only available via the Taxsaver scheme.

What about people who cannot avail of that scheme - that's anyone who is self-employed or indeed whose employer won't participate in the scheme - they will now have to pay more via capping.

Similarly, why is the Family 1 day ticket being withdrawn?

And why are the DART Feeder buses no longer being feeder buses?

These will lead to extra cost for a reasonable number of people.

I think this is outrageous!
There is no reason to link tax information to public transport information. I've posted before, and I think we've disagreed amicably about the cie taxsaver system, but there should be no way for cie to know the tax or other status of their customers; nor should they discriminate amoung customers on the basis of them having awful employers who won't participate in the tax break scheme, or customers who are self employed, or on short term contracts.

Hotblack Desiato

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Although I shouldn't have had to do that. Experience has taught me differently.

If/when they get it sorted out, you can always send back one of the cards and get back your fiver

syklops

The monthly Bus/LUAS, Bus/Rail, and Bus/Rail/LUAS are now only available via the Taxsaver scheme.

Flips sake.

Its like they are trying to put people off the leap card, not encourage it.