Fast advice needed!

Mr Benevolent

I'm going to view a '00 Puma 1.7 this afternoon. €1250, silver, good spec, but doesn't have a timing belt history. It has 110,000 miles on the clock but the owner (a nice lady, at least on the phone) can't tell me much about it. I'll be viewing in in a carpark near me. The timing belt interval on the 1.7 is 60k.

Am I an idiot to even consider looking at it?

Gumbo

Confab wrote: »

I'm going to view a '00 Puma 1.7 this afternoon. €1250, silver, good spec, but doesn't have a timing belt history. It has 110,000 miles on the clock but the owner (a nice lady, at least on the phone) can't tell me much about it. I'll be viewing in in a carpark near me. The timing belt interval on the 1.7 is 60k.

Am I an idiot to even consider looking at it?

budget for the timing belt change straight away! get a discount becasue of the lack of history.

or check the engine covers, the mechanic might of signed it with tip ex

CianRyan

Nice lady owner that can't say much about her car with no timing belt history?
I'd be surprised if the it's gotten a proper service in 20,000km
There's got to be other Puma's put there.

If you've arranged to have a look go on and see it but make sure to scrutinise.

Chimaera

Viewing in a car park rings alarm bells tbh. I'd ask her for the registration cert and driving licence or passport to verify her identity before parting with any money.

If you do decide to buy it, pay by cheque or bank transfer. If she balks at this, walk away.

Regarding the timing belt, it'd be a bit of a worry: I'd have it done immediately. Even leaving the distance interval aside, based on age the belt is nearly due a second time anyway. Drive the car no more than strictly necessary until the belt is done - if you can tow it to the mechanic so much the better.

Confab

Confab wrote: »

..........
Am I an idiot to even consider looking at it?

No, if it's straight and checks out I don't see the problem to be honest. It's not a Bentley, it's an 11 year old car for small money, have a look, if it's fine it's fine.

L-M

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Thats complete overkill in my opinion you could drive the car for 10 years without the belt going on it.

Overkill it well may be, but it happened me in my previous Golf, I wouldn't take the risk.

Mr Benevolent

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2711096



Anyone have any overriding impressions?

Tazio

Best of luck with car hunt.. check for air-bag light sequence on start up.

Looks tasty, if it's in order a small few quid off the asking and get the belt done etc and it would be a great bus for small money. It's quite likely the bet has been done anyway, if Ann has owned it for 10 years and gotten it serviced every year or so I'd be reckoning she would have been advised to have it done.

Mr Benevolent

RoverJames wrote: »

Looks tasty, if it's in order a small few quid off the asking and get the belt done etc and it would be a great bus for small money. It's quite likely the bet has been done anyway, if Ann has owned it for 10 years and gotten it serviced every year or so I'd be reckoning she would have been advised to have it done.

I doubt she's owned if from new if she hasn't a clue about the service history, but I agree that the belt was probably changed.

I dunno where I got the idea she owned it so long from tbh
Poor RJ :pac:

Absurdum

if you google the number, you'll find her CV, home address and work history :eek:

shangri la

No secrets on the interweb huh

EPM

Get a price from your usual mechanic and use this when bargaining. I'd change it for peace of mind. Nice looking car.

eringobragh

Confab wrote: »

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2711096



Anyone have any overriding impressions?

Are you in my area Confab - coolock, artane?...I can give you the number or an honest mechanic that will do the belt for a decent price..done my MR2 and coolant flush and a few other bits for 200 labour (ex parts) and the 2 is a big job!

Mr Benevolent

eringobragh wrote: »

Are you in my area Confab - coolock, artane?...I can give you the number or an honest mechanic that will do the belt for a decent price..done my MR2 and coolant flush and a few other bits for 200 labour (ex parts) and the 2 is a big job!

Yeah I live in Baldoyle, near enough. I went to see the car a few hours ago. Looked well but not in great shape.

- Oil all over the front underside of the car.
- Black 'gunge' on the engine parts under the oil cap
- Airbag light didn't come on
- 'Open door' warning light didn't go off
- Electric mirrors didn't work
- Driver's window made a rattling noise on the way back up
- Rust on the rear arches
- Paint flaking on the front bumper
- Rust on the front chassis member by the suspension strut
- Rattling noise on the far passenger side when driving
- Fanbelt noise was constant
- No idea when the tbelt was done
- No service done by the current owner who'd had the car for a year

Otherwise a very fun and quite fast car to drive, comfortable and much better than a Corsa. The owner didn't seem very surprised when I told her I didn't want to buy it.

That;s my first time looking at a car with a view to buying and I forced myself be very critical. If it'd just been the timing belt I might've bought it, but I rang Atlas about the cost of of a 1.7 tbelt & pump and they haven't gotten back to me yet.

CianRyan

Sounds like your general, "carefull woman owner" alright. :rolleyes:

Cuddlesworth

- Rust on the rear arches

Also normal on pretty much every puma I saw.

- Fanbelt noise was constant

Seemed to be the norm on all the ones I looked at.

- No idea when the tbelt was done

Supposed to be 100k miles or ten years from a ford Engineer on Project Puma.

- No service done by the current owner who'd had the car for a year

Worrying, those 1.7 engines need to be looked after.

TJJP

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=6447

'Puma has the Zetec S engine for which HJ recommends cam belt renewal at 80k miles'

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054901570

Mr Benevolent

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

- No idea when the tbelt was done

Supposed to be 100k miles or ten years from a ford Engineer on Project Puma.
.

It's 60k miles for the 1.7

eringobragh

Was the airbag bulb removed?

Mr Benevolent

eringobragh wrote: »

Was the airbag bulb removed?

Hard to tell tbh. Wasn't going to take the risk considering how many other things needed to be sorted.

Cuddlesworth

Confab wrote: »

It's 60k miles for the 1.7

Its 100k or every ten years from Ford themselves. They designed the Zetec engine, they should know its tolerances.

Mr Benevolent

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Its 100k or every ten years from Ford themselves. They designed the Zetec engine, they should know its tolerances.

That's for the 1.4 and 1.6, the 1.7 is an exception at 80k (corrected from my above post). Anyway it's irrevelant, the belt was probably overdue.

Henry Ford III

Loads of Pumas on sale, so you can be choosy.

1.7 is the best engine. A/c is desirable. The important thing is they are great fun to drive, are very reasonable for parts, and a good one will serve you well.

bandit14

CianRyan wrote: »

Nice lady owner that can't say much about her car with no timing belt history?
I'd be surprised if the it's gotten a proper service in 20,000km
There's got to be other Puma's put there.

If you've arranged to have a look go on and see it but make sure to scrutinise.

+1

Guy:Incognito

CianRyan wrote: »

Sounds like your general, "carefull woman owner" alright. :rolleyes:

Yeah, careful not to spend money on it.

ltdslipdiff

Had one of those 1.7 CVT Puma's myself for a little while,I have to admitt I was expecting more grunt !!! 125 odd bhp? It didn't feel like it. The one I had was same year and colour, but had different alloys. Are those not the standard 1.4 ones? Great machine to handle though that damn gearknob would freeze the hand off you on a cold morning !! Drums on the rear too? always felt it should have had disc's to handle the extra power. The brake pipes corrode badly on them, very popular NCT failure.

eringobragh

Whats the insurance like on the Puma Confab? Same as the 146?

Mr Benevolent

eringobragh wrote: »

Whats the insurance like on the Puma Confab? Same as the 146?

About an extra €20pm more than the 156. I'm going to see the 156 tomorrow.

Tazio

Hey confab... I think the reason the air bag light.didn't come on is because I bet the bags are not there... The pax air bag from the photos on the ad and bumpers look dodgy to me.. please don't flame.. its just my opinion... Or it could just be wear and tear and/or the picts...

Disclaimer: I have not seen this car in the flesh therefore I could be totally wrong.

No bags light on all the time if the bulb is there.

Mr Benevolent

Tazio wrote: »

Hey confab... I think the reason the air bag light.didn't come on is because I bet the bags are not there... The pax air bag from the photos on the ad and bumpers look dodgy to me.. please don't flame.. its just my opinion... Or it could just be wear and tear and/or the picts...

You could be right. I didn't buy the car as there was a lot more dodgy stuff than just the airbag!

Tazio

Best of luck with the 156.. do look for rust under the front pax and driver foot wells.

Cuddlesworth

ltdslipdiff wrote: »

Had one of those 1.7 CVT Puma's myself for a little while,I have to admitt I was expecting more grunt !!! 125 odd bhp? It didn't feel like it. The one I had was same year and colour, but had different alloys. Are those not the standard 1.4 ones? Great machine to handle though that damn gearknob would freeze the hand off you on a cold morning !! Drums on the rear too? always felt it should have had disc's to handle the extra power. The brake pipes corrode badly on them, very popular NCT failure.

You only really get the power past 4k revs, feels like I'm driving a Honda at times. And yeah, they do look like the standard 1.4 puma wheels. Do they fit over the larger disks on the 1.7s?

Mr Benevolent

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

You only really get the power past 4k revs, feels like I'm driving a Honda at times.

Exactly. You really need to gun it to bring the torque in. It's a lot of fun.

Mr Benevolent

Well, I went to see the 156. It's in very good nick, suspension is sorted, no variator rattle, good gear change, clutch is fine. Carpets are dry. Few tiny dings and scrapes, most noticeably the shutline of the driver's door. Inside the leather is new from a scrappie, everything works, new radio with USB, SD card and bluetooth. Guy seems genuine and is a Boardsie. Now, the price. Advertised at €1500, 69000 miles. The car has 14 months of NCT but the timing belt is due in 7000 miles at 76k. 6 months of tax left. Car has been in the family for 5 years.

Bargaining points:

Occupancy sensor has failed so the airbag light is on.

Leather wheel is in rags, needs to be replaced, about €50.

Gearstick gaiter needs to be replaced about, €20.

Driver's door needs to be touched up along the shutline - €75-€100?

Timing belt, pump & maybe tensioners due in 10 months/7000 miles.

There are no receipts for any of the work carried out, but I've driven a 156 with the suspension in bits and this car is sorted.

IMO it's worth more than €1200 but less than the asking. I've got 3 hours to respond. Opinions? I'm thinking €1300.

Henry Ford III

T/b and variator will be an expensive job I think. Factor this into your offer.

EPM

Confab wrote: »

Well, I went to see the 156. It's in very good nick, suspension is sorted, no variator rattle, good gear change, clutch is fine. Carpets are dry. Few tiny dings and scrapes, most noticeably the shutline of the driver's door. Inside the leather is new from a scrappie, everything works, new radio with USB, SD card and bluetooth. Guy seems genuine and is a Boardsie. Now, the price. Advertised at €1500, 69000 miles. The car has 14 months of NCT but the timing belt is due in 7000 miles at 76k. 6 months of tax left. Car has been in the family for 5 years.

Bargaining points:

Occupancy sensor has failed so the airbag light is on.

Leather wheel is in rags, needs to be replaced, about €50.

Gearstick gaiter needs to be replaced about, €20.

Driver's door needs to be touched up along the shutline - €75-€100?

Timing belt, pump & maybe tensioners due in 10 months/7000 miles.

There are no receipts for any of the work carried out, but I've driven a 156 with the suspension in bits and this car is sorted.

IMO it's worth more than €1200 but less than the asking. I've got 3 hours to respond. Opinions? I'm thinking €1300.

Offer what you think it's worth. Fcek offering more than that when opening. If anything I'd go slightly lower than what you think it's worth.

Leather bits can be re-trimmed cheaply enough. Dings get paintless dent removal done one. Scrapes - can be expensive but it is an old car and it might not be worth it.

Get urban to throw it up on the ramp maybe?

Confab

Confab wrote: »

.................. Advertised at €1500, 69000 miles. The car has 14 months of NCT but the timing belt is due in 7000 miles at 76k. 6 months of tax left. Car has been in the family for 5 years....................

Aren't the belts every 3 years or 36k miles?

Going off miles it's due in 3000 miles, unless it's on it's 3rd belt now isn't it overdue now timewise?

I'm all for Russian Roulette with belts but not on an Alfa.

6 months of tax and 14 months NCT are decent factors though, the tax is a fair chunk of a belt job

jsd1004

Limerick man wrote: »

Overkill it well may be, but it happened me in my previous Golf, I wouldn't take the risk.

FFS the car is worth a grand. Drive it until the belt falls off and reclaim your 200 euro for scrap. Why spend 300 euros on a belt on a car worth a grand.

166man

Confab wrote: »

Well, I went to see the 156. It's in very good nick, suspension is sorted, no variator rattle, good gear change, clutch is fine. Carpets are dry. Few tiny dings and scrapes, most noticeably the shutline of the driver's door. Inside the leather is new from a scrappie, everything works, new radio with USB, SD card and bluetooth. Guy seems genuine and is a Boardsie. Now, the price. Advertised at €1500, 69000 miles. The car has 14 months of NCT but the timing belt is due in 7000 miles at 76k. 6 months of tax left. Car has been in the family for 5 years.

Bargaining points:

Occupancy sensor has failed so the airbag light is on.

Leather wheel is in rags, needs to be replaced, about €50.

Gearstick gaiter needs to be replaced about, €20.

Driver's door needs to be touched up along the shutline - €75-€100?

Timing belt, pump & maybe tensioners due in 10 months/7000 miles.

There are no receipts for any of the work carried out, but I've driven a 156 with the suspension in bits and this car is sorted.

IMO it's worth more than €1200 but less than the asking. I've got 3 hours to respond. Opinions? I'm thinking €1300.

Many of the bargaining points you have mentioned are cosmetic and these can be done over time. The timing belt is the big job and when it was done on our 156 it cost roughly speaking the guts of €500... Its a big expensive job but it wont need to be done until the next 36k miles so unless you're doing big miles it won't have to be done for a while.

Sounds like a nice motor though, I'd go in hard with maybe €1200 using the timing belt as the bargaining chip and try settle at €1300.

Good luck!

EPM

jsd1004 wrote: »

FFS the car is worth a grand. Drive it until the belt falls off and reclaim your 200 euro for scrap. Why spend 300 euros on a belt on a car worth a grand.

Yes, and the replacement car would be another grand. Why pay that when you can get a timing belt done and get a few years of motoring out of the original car? Your logic is flawed.

On cars with belts specced for 6/7 years it's potentially worth risking especially if the engine isn't known as a belt snapper, there's still a decent chance it might snap or get contaminated or of the pump failing but on certain cars it's a fair enough risk, wouldn't chance it on an Alfa.

On a Puma with rusty arches and other issues I would if I bought it for less than a grand.

Just as a money where your mouth is point, the ZT I have is belt specced for 6 years/90k miles, on original belts still and I don't intend getting them changed. I've knocked 15 months out of it and if they don't fail between now and summer 2012 I'll be happy out. I don't expect them to either but of course I may be found to be wrong on that.

DonJose

Confab wrote: »

I'll be viewing in in a carpark near me.

Never buy a car in a car park, if its leaking oil you won't find out till later. If you view the car outside the owners house always check the driveway for signs of oil leaks.

unkel

RoverJames wrote: »

I'm all for Russian Roulette with belts but not on an Alfa.

I was gonna post the very same thing

But jaysis, a €500 job on a €1k car? Dunno if I would do it. Anyone any real idea what the chances are of the belt snapping within say 2 years and 15k miles?

10%? 50%? 90%?

Mycroft H

unkel wrote: »

I was gonna post the very same thing

But jaysis, a €500 job on a €1k car? Dunno if I would do it. Anyone any real idea what the chances are of the belt snapping within say 2 years and 15k miles?

10%? 50%? 90%?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve

unkel

unkel wrote: »

I was gonna post the very same thing

But jaysis, a €500 job on a €1k car? Dunno if I would do it. Anyone any real idea what the chances are of the belt snapping within say 2 years and 15k miles?

10%? 50%? 90%?

Whatever the bathtub curve suggests in general I wouldn't apply to an Alfa, initially Alfa had a longer interval on them but pulled it back due to failures.

Mr Benevolent

RoverJames wrote: »

Whatever the bathtub curve suggests in general I wouldn't apply to an Alfa, initially Alfa had a longer interval on them but pulled it back due to failures.

Thanks for the points lads, the timing belt was changed at 40k so it'll be due for a change at 76k and it's at 69k now. Think I'll go for it and look to buy for €1300.

SouperComputer

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Its 100k or every ten years from Ford themselves. They designed the Zetec engine, they should know its tolerances.

I was under the impression ZETEC was for the most part Yamaha's design. I think Mazda were involved too.
I think I'd pass on this car doesn't appear to have been well maintained.

Confab

Confab wrote: »

Thanks for the points lads, the timing belt was changed at 40k so it'll be due for a change at 76k and it's at 69k now. Think I'll go for it and look to buy for €1300.

don't forget the 3 year bit best of luck with the deal.