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The Billy Meier UFO case Switzerland

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  • Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭murrayp4


    bergheim wrote: »
    The microphone issue

    A pilot (coordinator) of a mother ship would need full spectrum communication.
    Telepathy would only cover a certain spectrum, not the full.

    Like open up communication with external space ships. That would be a task which would require a microphone.

    ...sorry, but I had to laugh. Comforting to know that we have someone who knows at least something abut motherships.


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 bergheim


    murrayp4 wrote: »
    ...sorry, but I had to laugh. Comforting to know that we have someone who knows at least something abut motherships.

    Murrayp4,

    It should be quite obvious that the information is from the Billy Meier contact notes. And all I am doing is to apply logic to, and expand on, the information already provided in the notes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 Mahigitam


    squonk wrote: »
    Well have you got a paragraph on why he was chosen? I'm willing to engage with you on this but pointing out some fundamental points relating to decency and fair treatment of a disabled person results in, to paraphrase 'Oh but you don't know why he was chosen. I'm not going to tell you, nobody ever believes. go read this book'. TBH I'm not going to read the book right now. I'm still not convinced and I still conclude that it's like me showing up in the 17th. century and having a crippled clerk write out everything I tell them by hand when I could just as easilly use my own technology to give them a helping hand.

    This is still not adding up for me. I can't get answers to basic fundamental questions and when that is the case, there's usually more to things I find.

    I've an open mind so please try and convince me but I've also got a full life so books and other activities have to be really worthwhile for me before I engage.



    Why do the Plejaren/Pleiadians only contact Billy Meier?
    http://www.steelmarkonline.com/why_billy.htm

    Contact 24 - Saturday, June 7, 1975
    A talk between Billy and Semjase during the 24th contact.

    Semjase: "... For the last time I trouble myself to explain that any contacts with other persons except you are totally impossible. The reasons are as follows:

    1. We get in contact with an individual from Earth only on condition that the person has executed studies in all spheres for decades.

    2. We can contact individuals from Earth only if the necessary spiritual prerequisites are present.

    3. We can get in contact with an individual from Earth only if that person has progressed so far in his development that he is able to work out and recognize the basic truth in the truth without assistance, and without considering any statements by other people or any writings.

    4. If we get in contact with an individual from Earth, and if those prerequisites are not fulfilled, such a contact is only a preliminary undertaking for a special purpose. After the achievement of the objective, the person's memory of us etc., is eliminated, as e.g. happened with the person whom we let find the Talmud [Jmmanuel]. Any duties that require that the individual goes public may not be imposed on such persons, since the memory within them is constantly eliminated; they are neither cognizant of the connections nor the actual facts. However, such persons must be highly developed in certain fields of knowledge, as e.g. was the case with the finder of the Talmud who was an expert in languages, but whom we burdened too much, unfortunately.

    5. If we get in contact with individuals from Earth we do this according to certain higher orders and according to the exact number of determined persons.One of the reasons for this lies in the fact that too many people standing in the first position would upset everything. I remember a saying that you use very frequently and that is very adequate in this respect: "Too many cooks spoil the stew." This is a fact that is also true within the laws and directives of Creation. Creation alone is the determining factor.

    6. We are not allowed to make ourselves visible to more individuals from Earth than lies within our responsibility. This precaution responds special concerns of private, military and governmental desires aimed at taking possession of our ships and all the other things. To be in contact with several persons would be dangerous for ourselves. That's why we can only cultivate contacts with Earth humans who are known to us as absolutely trustworthy and reliable in every respect. This is of far-reaching importance for our special mission with you and your group. We must be certain in every respect that - if the need arises - the contact person prevents bad consequences with all conceivable means.

    7. To show ourselves to certain picked earth humans only and taking up communication with them, secretly and at remote locations, has yet another reason: Countless people are craving for sensations and selfishness only. That's the reason why they want to get in contact with us. In addition there are those countless ones who - upon seeing us - would panic; something that could produce very dangerous effects.

    These are but seven reasons why we cannot agree to the desire of H.J. Many more reasons could be presented, but the ones given should be enough. ..."

    A list with other reasons, like e.g. the different vibrations between Pleiadians/Plejarens and Earth humans, among other things, can be read in Guido Moosbruggers book, And Still They Fly. One of the major reasons also given is that the Meier's spirit was very old, wise & have been involved in such kinds of missions on several planets for a long time.

    I differ with your use of the word "fundamental question" to the question - 'why did Plejaren allow Meier to type down the thousands of pages of contact notes instead of doing it themselves & later handing over them to Meier for distribution'. Fundamental questions pertaining to this case would be those questions that asks for the motivations, goals, strategies & the evidence in the case. The answers to these questions helps us create a working hypothesis, standards of evidence, methodology of testing the evidence & the fair conclusions that can be drawn. The "fundamental" question you asked doesn't seem to help us the way the true fundamental questions would be helping.
    The right answer to your question can only be given by the meier & FIGU. From reading the contact notes, what i understood is that as Tony Bodhran said ETs have a directive that doesn't make them interfere(exceptions included) with our earth civilization or even with Meier/FIGU. Their interactions would only be limited, depending on the situation & its consequences. Another reason given in the contact notes is also that the ETs want their involvement to be as minimum as possible so that the Meier/FIGU members would have to create a strong will, motivation, feeling of responsibility, group cohesiveness, 'trusting each other', 'Spiritual learning'...etc to reach the goals given in the mission. By creating such framework, ETs ensured that only those people who are - sincere, honest, has the sufficient knowledge & will power to struggle daily to complete the mission - would join the group. And Meier is not any exception as he was too given several challenges & choices on whether to continue or abandon the mission anytime he wants. So by strictly following the framework setup by ETs, they ensured that the mission would be a success. And this 'Meier typing the contact notes' might also a part of the above said framework.
    Besides, Billy does most of the hard work at his home/center with his one hand. And it has been told that he can do more work easily with one hand than a person can do with 2 hands. There are several documented instances of Meier's extraordinary physical & spiritual abilities in the contact notes & testimonials given by the witnesses & investigators. I think that this sufficiently answered your fundamental question & hope we would move onto more intricate, fundamental questions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭dyer


    Semjase: "... For the last time I trouble myself to explain that any contacts with other persons except you are totally impossible. The reasons are as follows:
    I'd like to understand, how this stands up to all the other people who claim to have been abducted.. why don't they remember anything apart from scraps of information through their dreams or memories as clearly as Meier does? Why don't Meier's UFOs adequately describe any of the UFO's that have been witnessed in modern times.. and why did they treat him so nicely when they seem to be treating the rest of the human race like guinea pigs? The photos of the crafts he described are simple tin cans that are obvious models (for anyone who's actually seen a real ufo).. his 70's thinking implies that they're physical objects.. or saucers as it were.. UFOs are so much more advanced, and sometimes just objects of light that can seemingly transform their shape between light and matter at will. I reckon one of Meier's biggest contributions to this hoax by his own admition was when he asked the plejerians? (spelling).. how they travelled so fast.. and their reply was along the lines of.. we can't tell you that and you must never ask us why again.. simply because.. if he even attempted to answer that question.. he knew he'd find himself in hot water so fast this whole story would be a hard boiled egg!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Mahigitam wrote: »
    Why do the Plejaren/Pleiadians only contact Billy Meier?

    Semjase: "... For the last time I trouble myself to explain that any contacts with other persons except you are totally impossible. The reasons are as follows:

    1. We get in contact with an individual from Earth only on condition that the person has executed studies in all spheres for decades.

    2. We can contact individuals from Earth only if the necessary spiritual prerequisites are present.

    3. We can get in contact with an individual from Earth only if that person has progressed so far in his development that he is able to work out and recognize the basic truth in the truth without assistance, and without considering any statements by other people or any writings.

    The sheer amount of people that 'qualify' for this, is massive. Why not then give the message to someone like the Dalai Lama, who's voice is listened to all over the world. Surely he, who has studied faith, spirituality, peace & the human condition his whole life would have made a better candidate than some bloke who nobody knew?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,160 ✭✭✭squonk


    Thanks Mahigitam for answering my question in great detail. I appreciate it.

    I don't get what they mean by an individual having executed studies in all spheres for years. Up to about 17-19 that could describe us all as we spend time in school studying languages, mathematics, humanities, sport, arts etc. After that it's normal for individuals to specialise and concentrate on a chosen field. Without concentrating on a particular area, you will not become an expert in that subject and, besides, I would think it's impossible for someone to have an equal interest and ability for all subjects and to keep studying these for years and years. Reading the description puts me in mind of a particularly broad minded PhD type. I think there would be quite a few candidates that could be identified based on those criteria.

    ETs want their involvement to be as minimum as possible so that the Meier/FIGU members would have to create a strong will, motivation, feeling of responsibility, group cohesiveness, 'trusting each other', 'Spiritual learning'...etc to reach the goals given in the mission. By creating such framework, ETs ensured that only those people who are - sincere, honest, has the sufficient knowledge & will power to struggle daily to complete the mission - would join the group.

    This sounds a lot like a cultish mindset. I could well believe such dedication if, once you've put your time in and assured the existing group that you were bone fide that you would then be allowed to meet the ETs or even get on board a ship but right now all I read is, to paraphrase "If you buy into this 100% you're extremely spiritual, honest and good and if you don't then you're an outcast and not worthy of the message". This sounds like the ethos of any religion going right now but as it's quite small with one man sitting on top of the pyramid, I'd describe it as a cult. Again this brings me back to why other contacts were not made. I know there are stated reasons why Billy is the man for the job yet even 1-2 other contacts elsewhere would transform this from a cult-like organisation to a more legitimate movement I feel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 Mahigitam


    dyer wrote: »
    I'd like to understand, how this stands up to all the other people who claim to have been abducted.. why don't they remember anything apart from scraps of information through their dreams or memories as clearly as Meier does?

    Meier was not abducted but contacted by ETs face-to-face consciously..
    dyer wrote: »
    Why don't Meier's UFOs adequately describe any of the UFO's that have been witnessed in modern times..

    Meier's 5000 pages Contact notes is filled with them.
    dyer wrote: »
    ..I reckon one of Meier's biggest contributions to this hoax by his own admition was when he asked the plejerians? (spelling).. how they travelled so fast.. and their reply was along the lines of.. we can't tell you that and you must never ask us why again.. simply because.. if he even attempted to answer that question.. he knew he'd find himself in hot water so fast this whole story would be a hard boiled egg!

    Several types of transportation mechanisms used by Plejaren themselves & other ETs have been sufficiently explained by Plejaren and this information had been available in copyright dated contact notes since 1975. Even the scientists who were working on interplanetary travel back in 1975 were astonished to know that Meier's information on Plejaren travel came very close to the theoretical calculations carried out by them.

    From the type of questions you raised, it seems to me that you have no knowledge on the basic information in Meier Case. All the answers to your questions have been available publicly for free through documentaries or contact notes and which obviously seems to me that you didn't care to verify his story. Sorry to say this but i would only be addressing those questions that have more of a curiosity factor in them rather than being just judgmental.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 Mahigitam


    EnterNow wrote: »
    The sheer amount of people that 'qualify' for this, is massive. Why not then give the message to someone like the Dalai Lama, who's voice is listened to all over the world. Surely he, who has studied faith, spirituality, peace & the human condition his whole life would have made a better candidate than some bloke who nobody knew?

    Have you read the several points listed in my previous post and if you did, i dont think you would have asked this question.

    squonk wrote: »
    I don't get what they mean by an individual having executed studies in all spheres for years. Up to about 17-19 that could describe us all as we spend time in school studying languages, mathematics, humanities, sport, arts etc. After that it's normal for individuals to specialise and concentrate on a chosen field. Without concentrating on a particular area, you will not become an expert in that subject and, besides, I would think it's impossible for someone to have an equal interest and ability for all subjects and to keep studying these for years and years. Reading the description puts me in mind of a particularly broad minded PhD type. I think there would be quite a few candidates that could be identified based on those criteria.

    'All spheres' includes knowledge that not only concerns with the material life but also that of the spiritual life. For a complete answer, only Billy or FIGU can answer.

    squonk wrote: »
    ETs want their involvement to be as minimum as possible so that the Meier/FIGU members would have to create a strong will, motivation, feeling of responsibility, group cohesiveness, 'trusting each other', 'Spiritual learning'...etc to reach the goals given in the mission. By creating such framework, ETs ensured that only those people who are - sincere, honest, has the sufficient knowledge & will power to struggle daily to complete the mission - would join the group.

    This sounds a lot like a cultish mindset. I could well believe such dedication if, once you've put your time in and assured the existing group that you were bone fide that you would then be allowed to meet the ETs or even get on board a ship but right now all I read is, to paraphrase "If you buy into this 100% you're extremely spiritual, honest and good and if you don't then you're an outcast and not worthy of the message".

    You may want to refer the the meaning of 'Cult' in the dictionaries & then use it properly wherever it is justified. Otherwise most or all of our social, political & security institutions would also come under 'Cult'. Secondly, nobody except Billy is allowed to meet or fly with ETs & i think it was already mentioned before in the list of points given by Plejaren.

    squonk wrote: »
    This sounds like the ethos of any religion going right now but as it's quite small with one man sitting on top of the pyramid, I'd describe it as a cult. Again this brings me back to why other contacts were not made. I know there are stated reasons why Billy is the man for the job yet even 1-2 other contacts elsewhere would transform this from a cult-like organisation to a more legitimate movement I feel.

    Have you even read the rules, statutes & regulations on how the Meier & his group functions ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,160 ✭✭✭squonk


    Mahigitam wrote: »
    Have you even read the rules, statutes & regulations on how the Meier & his group functions ?

    No I haven't but I always get very worried when there's one guy who has unhindered access to the message/message givers and others who must use the guy as a proxy to get the message. It puts the guy in a powerful position.

    Please let me know how the group operates if things are different from my impression. While I appreciate that explanations can be very detailed and are better read at length, I think my questions are basic enough and I'm not seeing things in this that fill me with confidence about Meier.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 Mahigitam


    squonk wrote: »
    No I haven't but I always get very worried when there's one guy who has unhindered access to the message/message givers and others who must use the guy as a proxy to get the message. It puts the guy in a powerful position.

    Please let me know how the group operates if things are different from my impression. While I appreciate that explanations can be very detailed and are better read at length, I think my questions are basic enough and I'm not seeing things in this that fill me with confidence about Meier.

    FIGU
    http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/FIGU
    FIGU Statutes
    http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/w/images/4/47/Figu_statutes.pdf

    To keep in mind also is this, which is available on the page about FIGU above.

    "WE TOO ARE ONLY HUMAN
    Outsiders often have either the erroneous notion or expectation that we FIGU members live according to each and every Creational law and commandment. This assumption is as incorrect as the belief that we are nearly "perfect". We are very normal people, just like everyone else. Though we do strive to live by the Creational laws and directives, we are not able to circumvent the natural course of evolution. For this reason it should be absolutely clear that we have the same faults and weaknesses that are incorporated into every individual's personal evolution.
    "


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  • Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    Mahigitam wrote: »

    Three segments from around the middle of that first page:
    HOW DO WE DIFFER FROM A RELIGION OR A SECT?
    Without exception, all religions, sects and ideologies, among others, are based on assumptions and beliefs that are diametrically opposed to the truthful spiritual teachings presented to terrestrial human beings by FIGU via 'Billy' Eduard Albert Meier, extraterrestrial human races, and by entities from higher and, indeed, the highest spiritual planes. These teachings are based on actual facts, truth, logic and wisdom. FIGU offers an opportunity for anyone to finally stride toward cognition of reality. After centuries, indeed millennia, of spiritual stagnation, a person can attain inner and outer freedom and assume the obligation of achieving personal spiritual evolution.
    I think you'll find most cults/religions/sects would claim the same thing, that their 'truth' is the one 'truth'.
    'BlLLY' MEIER
    'Billy' Eduard Albert Meier's function is to act as the liaison between Pleiadians from planet ERRA and their confederates and human beings on Earth. His one-on-one telepathic and physical contacts with the aliens shall continue until his life ends. He imparts to us the Extraterrestrials' important messages, instructions and warnings; likewise, he is the author of valuable texts about Creational laws, directives, and other pertinent information.
    So again, just one man that can 'hear' the voice of enlightment and steer the way?
    IS 'BILLY' MEIER A PROPHET?
    The Extraterrestrials have designated 'Billy' Eduard Albert Meier as the New Age Prophet. This does not mean, however, that he is a person with special authority. Rather, he is a human being like any other, but possesses unique capabilities and immense knowledge regarding spiritual matters and the corresponding wisdom. Through his contacts and his own acumen, he is capable of announcing the true teachings, messages and instructions that show the way to the future.
    It really does sound just like any other cult to be perfectly honest with you.
    And to be completely blunt, but you guys do sound a little... indoctrinated...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭dyer


    Mahigitam wrote: »
    Meier was not abducted but contacted by ETs face-to-face consciously..



    Meier's 5000 pages Contact notes is filled with them.



    Several types of transportation mechanisms used by Plejaren themselves & other ETs have been sufficiently explained by Plejaren and this information had been available in copyright dated contact notes since 1975. Even the scientists who were working on interplanetary travel back in 1975 were astonished to know that Meier's information on Plejaren travel came very close to the theoretical calculations carried out by them.

    From the type of questions you raised, it seems to me that you have no knowledge on the basic information in Meier Case. All the answers to your questions have been available publicly for free through documentaries or contact notes and which obviously seems to me that you didn't care to verify his story. Sorry to say this but i would only be addressing those questions that have more of a curiosity factor in them rather than being just judgmental.

    please enlighten me then :)

    i still haven't seen one shred of real evidence to support any of your beliefs at all.. except for billy's bible.
    Even the scientists who were working on interplanetary travel back in 1975
    ?????

    im starting to feel like the OP must have 5 boards accounts.. maybe 5 hands and six fingers too.

    meier isn't the only one who claims to have had conversations with ET's, just the only one who's written a library on the matter.



    i provided an article earlier where someone went through a great deal of trouble to test meier's predictions and found that they were more than likely copied from publically available scientific articles and journals of the time (most of which were available prior to his predictions.. but of course, that information wasn't available in those days like it is now with our friend the internet).. the ones that he got wrong are the most poignant indications of the fact, they were the same errors that popular science got wrong back then too because they didn't have the means or the technology to test those ideas out like we do today. so, if meier's had indeed gone on these magical adventures and had been exposed to such advanced technology and traversed the solar system and indeed the universe.. why were his predictions so accurately 'wrong' when compared to the broad scientific predictions that were made 40/50yrs ago?

    man if i was an alien.. id have a field day with this planet.

    scratch that.. beam me up, scotty!


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 Mahigitam


    dyer wrote: »
    i provided an article earlier where someone went through a great deal of trouble to test meier's predictions and found that they were more than likely copied from publically available scientific articles and journals of the time (most of which were available prior to his predictions.. but of course, that information wasn't available in those days like it is now with our friend the internet).. the ones that he got wrong are the most poignant indications of the fact, they were the same errors that popular science got wrong back then too because they didn't have the means or the technology to test those ideas out like we do today. so, if meier's had indeed gone on these magical adventures and had been exposed to such advanced technology and traversed the solar system and indeed the universe.. why were his predictions so accurately 'wrong' when compared to the broad scientific predictions that were made 40/50yrs ago?

    Go through these:
    http://theyfly.com/Jupiter.htm
    http://theyfly.com/Wendelle-Stevens-Jupiter-Io.html
    http://www.theyfly.com/PDF/Horn_RingsofJupiter.pdf

    If you want to talk on the corroboration of prophecies & the IIG's research, then present your side of the argument with one prophecy at a time ...


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    Mahigitam wrote: »
    dyer wrote: »
    i provided an article earlier where someone went through a great deal of trouble to test meier's predictions and found that they were more than likely copied from publically available scientific articles and journals of the time (most of which were available prior to his predictions.. but of course, that information wasn't available in those days like it is now with our friend the internet).. the ones that he got wrong are the most poignant indications of the fact, they were the same errors that popular science got wrong back then too because they didn't have the means or the technology to test those ideas out like we do today. so, if meier's had indeed gone on these magical adventures and had been exposed to such advanced technology and traversed the solar system and indeed the universe.. why were his predictions so accurately 'wrong' when compared to the broad scientific predictions that were made 40/50yrs ago?

    Go through these:
    http://theyfly.com/Jupiter.htm
    http://theyfly.com/Wendelle-Stevens-Jupiter-Io.html
    http://www.theyfly.com/PDF/Horn_RingsofJupiter.pdf

    If you want to talk on the corroboration of prophecies & the IIG's research, then present your side of the argument with one prophecy at a time ...

    Dyer thinks we are all the same person using multiple accounts, it does not matter what you say you will be wasting your time as what ever you prove will be ignored as he moves on to the next thing he doesn't like or doesn't understand. We are obviously brainwashed by Meier's magic beard, that's what's going on. Its nothing to do with the fact that we know much more about the subject than you guys...no its obviously brainwashing....jebus.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    Dyer thinks we are all the same person using multiple accounts, it does not matter what you say you will be wasting your time as what ever you prove will be ignored as he moves on to the next thing he doesn't like or doesn't understand. We are obviously brainwashed by Meier's magic beard, that's what's going on. Its nothing to do with the fact that we know much more about the subject than you guys...no its obviously brainwashing....jebus.

    And yet when anyone replies with obvious gaping holes in the story, you regurgitate the same 'Oh, that was one of the photos that was tampered with' lines, or some such nonsense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    And yet when anyone replies with obvious gaping holes in the story, you regurgitate the same 'Oh, that was one of the photos that was tampered with' lines, or some such nonsense.

    I've answered plenty of your questions fully and without regurgitation, it's others who keep regurgitating the same question over and over despite explanation and requests to discuss other matters.

    Tell me o "objective one",without reference to Dean Martin, what part of the spiritual message to humanity that Meier was given do you disagree with most and please tell me why, I'm very curious as to why you think the message is all bollox.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,160 ✭✭✭squonk


    Dyer thinks we are all the same person using multiple accounts, it does not matter what you say you will be wasting your time as what ever you prove will be ignored as he moves on to the next thing he doesn't like or doesn't understand. We are obviously brainwashed by Meier's magic beard, that's what's going on. Its nothing to do with the fact that we know much more about the subject than you guys...no its obviously brainwashing....jebus.

    To be honest, I'm very willing to accept that some photos may have been tampered with and maybe are not all that they appear and even the Dean Martin connection is bizarre but let's admit that and move on.

    I know a lot of good answers have been received which is great. That certainly has helped me understand a bit better what is happening but I'm a bit lost now. A few people have pointed out that it's a bit questionable that Meier is, to quote Jose Murihnio, 'The Special One' and only he is qualified to communicate with the Plejorans. Given that we're not talking about gods here and that they are a fellow race, it's reasonable to question why Billy and only Billy is the sole contact. I mean, he could get knocked down by a car or have some particular health issue that either could incapacitate him or even cause his death. Would you buy stock in a company built solely around one innovator and when he's gone, so is the innovation? Out of 7bn people on earth, there has to be a second candidate for receipt of the message somewhere! Wouldn't it make sense to have a backup plan?

    The problem here is that if the plejorans were to be interpreted as some type of gods, then there's leeway becaue Gods can do anything. They're a fellow humanoid race so I'm going to judge them by our own standards. Even early man had backup plans so I'm certain an advanced race certainly will.

    I find the attitude, 'Well, we know much more about this than you guys' a bit strange. I think we're all only asking logical questions here so I don't get the defensiveness.

    In a way, you've got a handier time explaining things than Catholic preachers do. You have photographs. Catholics have heresay! I don't think I've seen anything here really essentially saying what the message is here that we're all supposed to adapt to. Ask people "What is Jesus' message?", you'll get something like Love, Understanding, tolerance and respect. Here, if it's asked "What's Billy's message?", Well, it's not that simple. It's a broad thing. Listen, you need to buy this book oh, and you need to read this bunch of notes. If you've got a message you need a tagline i.e. Jesus and Love, Obama and 'Yes We Can'. What's Billy's tagline? I don't want this to become a religious debate but, from all of this discussion so far, all I can tell about Meier's message is that religion is wrong.... If you talk to a jew however, catholics are wrong and vice versa, so how is Billy different, apart from saying "Religion is bad. M'Kay?".


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    I've answered plenty of your questions fully and without regurgitation, it's others who keep regurgitating the same question over and over despite explanation and requests to discuss other matters.

    Tell me o "objective one",without reference to Dean Martin, what part of the spiritual message to humanity that Meier was given do you disagree with most and please tell me why, I'm very curious as to why you think the message is all bollox.

    I've never claimed to be 'objective'. I may be the mod of the forum, but I am allowed an opinion, same as anyone else that uses the forum. I just have to be impartial with regard to any moderation that is carried out.

    I've not been referring to the 'spiritual message' at all, not once. I've been referring in any of my posts to the evidence that has been provided, and once to the somewhat cult-ish appearance of how this seems to have ended up.

    If the same questions are being asked again and again, does that not indicate to you that there is something fundamentally wrong with the evidence that has been presented? If someone tried to get you to buy into some investment scheme, and all of the facts and figures that were presented looked really dodgy, would you invest, taking them at their word, or would you step back, thinking that if what they claim as proof looks very much less than legitimate, then how can you believe the rest of what they have said?


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    squonk wrote: »
    To be honest, I'm very willing to accept that some photos may have been tampered with and maybe are not all that they appear and even the Dean Martin connection is bizarre but let's admit that and move on.

    I know a lot of good answers have been received which is great. That certainly has helped me understand a bit better what is happening but I'm a bit lost now. A few people have pointed out that it's a bit questionable that Meier is, to quote Jose Murihnio, 'The Special One' and only he is qualified to communicate with the Plejorans. Given that we're not talking about gods here and that they are a fellow race, it's reasonable to question why Billy and only Billy is the sole contact. I mean, he could get knocked down by a car or have some particular health issue that either could incapacitate him or even cause his death. Would you buy stock in a company built solely around one innovator and when he's gone, so is the innovation? Out of 7bn people on earth, there has to be a second candidate for receipt of the message somewhere! Wouldn't it make sense to have a backup plan?

    The problem here is that if the plejorans were to be interpreted as some type of gods, then there's leeway becaue Gods can do anything. They're a fellow humanoid race so I'm going to judge them by our own standards. Even early man had backup plans so I'm certain an advanced race certainly will.

    I find the attitude, 'Well, we know much more about this than you guys' a bit strange. I think we're all only asking logical questions here so I don't get the defensiveness.

    In a way, you've got a handier time explaining things than Catholic preachers do. You have photographs. Catholics have heresay! I don't think I've seen anything here really essentially saying what the message is here that we're all supposed to adapt to. Ask people "What is Jesus' message?", you'll get something like Love, Understanding, tolerance and respect. Here, if it's asked "What's Billy's message?", Well, it's not that simple. It's a broad thing. Listen, you need to buy this book oh, and you need to read this bunch of notes. If you've got a message you need a tagline i.e. Jesus and Love, Obama and 'Yes We Can'. What's Billy's tagline? I don't want this to become a religious debate but, from all of this discussion so far, all I can tell about Meier's message is that religion is wrong.... If you talk to a jew however, catholics are wrong and vice versa, so how is Billy different, apart from saying "Religion is bad. M'Kay?".



    I realise you want a 15 second skynews explanation, but we are talking about very large concepts, and I don't think that's how we really learn properly but here goes..

    Firstly Billy doesn't say religion is bad M'kay he says that no other species in the universe has religion like we do because it's just so ****ing stupid and illogical( Billy did not say ****ing stupid, it's longer than that but it means the same thing) And there is a world of difference between his explanation of a living spiritual creational energy and some beardy bloke living in the clouds smiting us with plagues.

    Secondly Billy has done everything he was asked to do which was write the message down, he's not as important as the message is. The fact that there have been multiple assassination attempts on his life over the years and he survived would lend weight to the notion that he is the right man for the job alone.

    To explain better why he was picked I have to go into the spiritual part of the message, so here is the short version.

    By the way if you don't think that there is a spiritual aspect to people then don't bother reading.

    The Plejaran teach that the Creation which is Universal Consciousness, as natural spirit-energy-form, is a spirit-energy-form based and existing purely on causal evolution out of which the likewise causal and evolution-related creational-natural laws and recommendations are given. Meaning that Creation itself is a living entity constantly evolving through it's existence by means of laws of cause and effect, laws which we should quite rightly follow as they govern and provide the function of the natural universe. It has neither personality or duality or trinity, it is an independent, natural and evolutive single-energetical form of unending spirit-energetical greatness and might.
    Creation has the exact same process of evolution as every other living thing in the universe but on immense time scales.

    The human being bears a fragment of spiritual energy imparted from creation, the purpose of human existence is to spiritually evolve from material form back to purely spiritual form over a period of billions of years. When the human dies the spirit form goes into a state of rebuilding a new personality for the next incarnation, the wisdom garnered however small is stored and available for subsequent incarnations, all knowledge of previous life is not stored and eventually after a period of time (around 150 years) the spirit form is incarnated into a new body to continue the process. Over time the Creation will eventually evolve to a point where it will create another universe having gathered the combined accumulated experience of every life form in the universe each having experienced countless completely independent existences and evolved back to a purely spiritual form to join with creation.

    Over billions of years the human form will evolve along with the spiritual form. This is one of the reasons that the Plejaran will not communicate with us, we are too different from them, if you have ever walked into a room and gotten bad vibes from an asshole, imagine if you were so sensitive that those vibes could potentially kill you. (Tell me we are not a planet full of assholes)

    Beings of sufficient advancement (not just Plejaran) take it upon them selves to help other races along in this evolutive process as you would teach a child although they have to do it within a strict set of guidelines. You can't teach a child how to grow up by saying grow up, they have to learn how to do it them selves through trial and error but you do try and show them the way.

    They can do this by communicating with other races in a number ofdifferent ways:
    By telepathic impulses most commonly, nudging people such as scientists artists etc. to think about concepts
    By communicating directly physically or telepathically with a species sufficiently advanced that allows them this method.
    Or by reincarnating on a planet and living as a native.
    This method sucks ass for whoever is involved as you don't go back home after you die. Your spirit will reincarnate on whatever planet you expire on and this is generally a long term project if you have to do it anyway.
    If you can imagine that for instance you have a whole planet full of billions of people who have gotten it wrong for thousands of years and you have to help them get themselves out of it and not do it for them it's going to be a big job that you will have to come back to again and again. Remember though evolution is a long process and in reality even a million years or so is a drop in the bucket for your spirit form and the life of the universe/Creation.

    (PS-According to Meier there are many extraterrestrials who have died on the planet and subsequently reincarnated here over the millennia. Such as descendants of the Plejaran and others who colonised earth in the distant past and died here for one reason or another. These are now living as humans with normal lives with no knowledge of their background and will go through the normal process of evolution along with everyone else on earth although some will be further along the spiritual evolutionary ladder )


    So Billy's spirit form has done it before in various incarnations in the past, the messenger was never supposed to be more important than the messenger but we screwed that up as well and developed more religions out of it, he has not always reincarnated as a teacher but would always have been a person of great wisdom. Billy was not aware of this as a young man as knowledge is not carried forward and he had to be instructed by the Plejaran from a young age. While he is completely human his spiritual evolutive level allowed them to directly contact him as opposed to others less evolved which would actually harm them to be even in the vicinity of. This is his last time around and has been the only time in history where the message will be written down unadulterated and be able to be accessed by the entire planet through modern communication methods, when ever we get around to it. I think that the plan is through scientific developments humans will gradually abandon their religious thinking over the next couple of hundred years (800 according to the Plejaran) and physical sciences will gradually catch up to spiritual sciences and the teachings will still be there for everyone. Thanks to the people at FIGU who are helping Billy store all his collected writings and making sure things aren't changed in translations etc. Billy's spirit form unfortunately has to stay here in his subsequent incarnations until we have evolved sufficiently for the Plejarans to make actual contact which will be a very long time. He will not be involved in this role in any subsequent incarnations, so no one can say they are Billy Meier reincarnated and start another religion.

    Why a farmer in Switzerland? Why does it matter, the spirit incarnates into whatever situation most suited for it's purpose,and Billy completed his purpose, would he have been able to do everything he says he has born in London/Washington/Uganda?
    As for everyone else it's the same, if you grow up in the jungles of Borneo eating your dead grandma to communicate with her and you die you will not be reincarnated into a family of learned scientists in new york, where would be the logic in that? Evolution is about growth, it's visible in every aspect of nature which is what the spiritual teachings are based on, the natural laws of cause and effect which lead to change and growth.You can't skip from being a fish to being an amphibian without going through the long evolutive process of trial and error.


    Compare this explanation with Christianity or Islam, you get one life, you have to do it all perfectly and two choices are yours:BOOM- you are back with God the universe creator/Snuggling up with vestal virgins just after the latest series of X-factor or BOOM- Burning in hell for eternity and no virgins ever again..To me that doesn't make any kind of sense.
    The world works through trial and error /cause and effect and growth, you can see it in the smallest life forms on earth to the largest galaxy's in the universe.

    There you go, make of it what you will. If you believe in a spiritual side I think it's the only explanation I've ever heard that makes logical sense, if you don't then there is no point in discussing it any further. This is a very basic explanation of some of the concepts in which the content of the actual writings is staggering in it's scale and scope of information.
    Thanks for being civil.
    Peace.


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    I've never claimed to be 'objective'. I may be the mod of the forum, but I am allowed an opinion, same as anyone else that uses the forum. I just have to be impartial with regard to any moderation that is carried out.

    I've not been referring to the 'spiritual message' at all, not once. I've been referring in any of my posts to the evidence that has been provided, and once to the somewhat cult-ish appearance of how this seems to have ended up.

    If the same questions are being asked again and again, does that not indicate to you that there is something fundamentally wrong with the evidence that has been presented? If someone tried to get you to buy into some investment scheme, and all of the facts and figures that were presented looked really dodgy, would you invest, taking them at their word, or would you step back, thinking that if what they claim as proof looks very much less than legitimate, then how can you believe the rest of what they have said?

    I've said it a number of times here, you keep harping on about 5 photographs out of hundreds of others that were analysed by professionals and they thought they were genuine. So you disregard the hundreds of others because of the 5 that are dodgy, some of them just because you don't like the look of them not because of any scientific reason.

    Why do these few pictures invalidate the original investigation of hundreds of other pictures which is extensively documented in the 1970's and showed no evidence of hoaxing?

    Is it beyond the bounds of reason to think that over the course of hundreds of people visiting Meier in his house in the 1970's that someone may have gotten hold of a few and messed with them to discredit him because of what he was saying? He took over 1200 photographs, he kept them in a shoe box under his bed, over 600 were stolen from him, is it not possible that when news started to come out that someone did not like what he was saying (maybe look at what he was saying) and messed with a few?

    If you look at anything connected with UFO's in the current media the first thing that anyone says about the governments involvement is that they will cover it up, or put out an alternate story, was that invented recently?
    What do you think governments would do to you if you started providing reasonable evidence of contact with an alien race who were saying that we were a bunch of lunatics and the only way to sort yourselves out was to get rid of the lunatics in control and start again?
    Everyone on earth seems to think that this is entirely possible except only in regard to the Meier case. That in itself is unbelievable.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    I've said it a number of times here, you keep harping on about 5 photographs out of hundreds of others that were analysed by professionals and they thought they were genuine. So you disregard the hundreds of others because of the 5 that are dodgy, some of them just because you don't like the look of them not because of any scientific reason.

    Why do these few pictures invalidate the original investigation of hundreds of other pictures which is extensively documented in the 1970's and showed no evidence of hoaxing?

    Well I've not pulled up any photos except for the ones that you've provided. So how is it that they are the ones used by Meier are also the ones that look fake? If this was the case, wouldn't he use the other photos instead? Why is it that any investigation into this apart from the ones you have mentioned that were done in the 70's is dismissed as doctoring the photos and dismissed out of hand?

    IMHO, if it looks like a fish, and smells like a fish, and swims like a fish, chances are it's a fish.
    Similarly, any 'evidence' that I've seen anywhere on this looks fake to be perfectly honest.
    I'm getting tired of the same excuses for these being trotted out every time someone here shows some disbelief in this case, so this is the last time I'll be engaging on this topic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    I am also tired...fish it is. You win. Good night.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 Mahigitam


    squonk wrote: »
    ...it's reasonable to question why Billy and only Billy is the sole contact. I mean, he could get knocked down by a car or have some particular health issue that either could incapacitate him or even cause his death...Out of 7bn people on earth, there has to be a second candidate for receipt of the message somewhere! Wouldn't it make sense to have a backup plan?

    Before taking up contact with Billy, it was told that there were only 3(or 5?) other persons who could take up direct face-to-face contact with Plejaren. SO Billy is not the 'Special one' on earth for this job. But the by the time they started off the mission, noone of those 3 or 5 were living & at the same time Billy happened to be more capable & chose to carry the mission. Billy is the only direct contactee with Plejaren & there are hundreds(if not thousands) of indirect contactees on earth. These indirect contactees are experts/professionals in their fields who get neutral-inspirational impulses from these ETs to advance their fields...It was also told that Plejaren are in limited contact with very few people to do certain tasks and that these people didn't ever come before public to announce that they are in contact with ETs..


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 Mahigitam


    If the same questions are being asked again and again, does that not indicate to you that there is something fundamentally wrong with the evidence that has been presented? If someone tried to get you to buy into some investment scheme, and all of the facts and figures that were presented looked really dodgy, would you invest, taking them at their word, or would you step back, thinking that if what they claim as proof looks very much less than legitimate, then how can you believe the rest of what they have said?
    It could also mean many things like, the person is unable to consider other evidence that is strong and also it could be that he is unable to evaluate the evidence without making any fallacies or errors in logic. The main reason why this issue or any issue discussed online can go on for several hundreds of threads is that there are no standards of evidence(SOE) to be considered and also that there is no judge who verifies the evidence, the arguments supporting it and finally to give the conclusion. So what happens is that the members go on asking irrelevant questions, make logical fallacies, attack the person who argue against their views,....etc. If there really were a judge and SOE, trust me we could have reached a fair conclusion along time ago...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭dyer


    if i ever study philosophy.. this will be my thesis on circular reasoning

    :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,160 ✭✭✭squonk


    Mahigitam wrote: »
    Before taking up contact with Billy, it was told that there were only 3(or 5?) other persons who could take up direct face-to-face contact with Plejaren. SO Billy is not the 'Special one' on earth for this job. But the by the time they started off the mission, noone of those 3 or 5 were living & at the same time Billy happened to be more capable & chose to carry the mission. Billy is the only direct contactee with Plejaren

    This seems like a contradiction. Was Billy one of the original 3-5 people? Also, if they were able to find 3-5 people at tme X when the mission was contemplated but the candidates had died since, surely there had to be at least 2 available at time X+Y (when the mission took place) when Billy was picked? It doesn't really answer the question of why all their eggs are put in one basket.
    Mahigitam wrote: »
    & there are hundreds(if not thousands) of indirect contactees on earth. These indirect contactees are experts/professionals in their fields who get neutral-inspirational impulses from these ETs to advance their fields...It was also told that Plejaren are in limited contact with very few people to do certain tasks and that these people didn't ever come before public to announce that they are in contact with ETs..

    How do we know then that's true or not? We have a single point of reference (Billy) and have to take his word for it. I can say that the guy who invented Velcro did so on the instructions of ETs. Unless the gentleman or lady concerned comes forward to confirm or deny what I say, I'm neither right nor wrong because what I say is unproven. Moments of inspiration I can take or leave. Are they telepathically transmitted ideas or naturally occuring in the brain? Who knows! That's open to interpretation and is necessearilly vauge however the assertion that there are others in limited contact with the ETs can be easily proven.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,160 ✭✭✭squonk


    Thank you for the very detailed reply. I have some comments on this below.
    I realise you want a 15 second skynews explanation, but we are talking about very large concepts, and I don't think that's how we really learn properly but here goes..
    It may not be how you learn but the way I see this whole debate going is as follows. We both want to explain the concept of a car to somebody who's not seen one before.
    Me: A Car is a metal cart. It gets you very quickly from A-B. Now, let's look at how it does that, getting more detailed as the student's knowledge increases.

    Meier Crew: Here is the chemical equation for petrol. Here are some documents on how petrolium burns and the chemical reactions involved. Please read this engineering document on the dynamics between the axel and the drivetrain. You can't understand a car until you grasp these concepts.
    Firstly Billy doesn't say religion is bad M'kay he says that no other species in the universe has religion like we do because it's just so ****ing stupid and illogical( Billy did not say ****ing stupid, it's longer than that but it means the same thing) And there is a world of difference between his explanation of a living spiritual creational energy and some beardy bloke living in the clouds smiting us with plagues.
    Poorly worded by me perhaps but I still see it as Religion is stupid aka bad. Anyway, not worht arguing over.
    Secondly Billy has done everything he was asked to do which was write the message down, he's not as important as the message is. The fact that there have been multiple assassination attempts on his life over the years and he survived would lend weight to the notion that he is the right man for the job alone.

    It does? How? I think it says he's lucky but that's about it.
    To explain better why he was picked I have to go into the spiritual part of the message, so here is the short version.

    By the way if you don't think that there is a spiritual aspect to people then don't bother reading.

    I think there is so we're in agreement there.
    The Plejaran teach that the Creation which is Universal Consciousness, as natural spirit-energy-form, is a spirit-energy-form based and existing purely on causal evolution out of which the likewise causal and evolution-related creational-natural laws and recommendations are given. Meaning that Creation itself is a living entity constantly evolving through it's existence by means of laws of cause and effect, laws which we should quite rightly follow as they govern and provide the function of the natural universe. It has neither personality or duality or trinity, it is an independent, natural and evolutive single-energetical form of unending spirit-energetical greatness and might.
    Creation has the exact same process of evolution as every other living thing in the universe but on immense time scales.

    The human being bears a fragment of spiritual energy imparted from creation, the purpose of human existence is to spiritually evolve from material form back to purely spiritual form over a period of billions of years. When the human dies the spirit form goes into a state of rebuilding a new personality for the next incarnation, the wisdom garnered however small is stored and available for subsequent incarnations, all knowledge of previous life is not stored and eventually after a period of time (around 150 years) the spirit form is incarnated into a new body to continue the process.
    I'm struggling to figure out how the wisdom can be discerned from the other stuff if the being isn't aware of the process anyway - but it's not something that can be definitively proved anyway.
    Over time the Creation will eventually evolve to a point where it will create another universe having gathered the combined accumulated experience of every life form in the universe each having experienced countless completely independent existences and evolved back to a purely spiritual form to join with creation.

    Over billions of years the human form will evolve along with the spiritual form. This is one of the reasons that the Plejaran will not communicate with us, we are too different from them, if you have ever walked into a room and gotten bad vibes from an asshole, imagine if you were so sensitive that those vibes could potentially kill you. (Tell me we are not a planet full of assholes)

    But Billy isn't giving off these harmful deat inducing bad vibes? I fail to see how they will be killed though? Surely hanging around on a planet with a few billion inhabitants giving off bad vibes wouldn't be good for your health?
    Beings of sufficient advancement (not just Plejaran) take it upon them selves to help other races along in this evolutive process as you would teach a child although they have to do it within a strict set of guidelines. You can't teach a child how to grow up by saying grow up, they have to learn how to do it them selves through trial and error but you do try and show them the way.

    They can do this by communicating with other races in a number ofdifferent ways:
    By telepathic impulses most commonly, nudging people such as scientists artists etc. to think about concepts
    By communicating directly physically or telepathically with a species sufficiently advanced that allows them this method.
    Or by reincarnating on a planet and living as a native.
    This method sucks ass for whoever is involved as you don't go back home after you die. Your spirit will reincarnate on whatever planet you expire on and this is generally a long term project if you have to do it anyway.

    So, you can choose to show up on a planet for reincarnation but you can't get off that planet afterwards. Presumably any plejoran who wants to do this has been reincarnating on Lyra or whatever planet they are from over quite a while. Why can they decide to reincarnate somewhere else then? If they can't go back to Lyra after their earth reincarnation, how did they get to earth in the first place given that you can only reincarnate on the planet you died on and they'd have died on Lyra.
    If you can imagine that for instance you have a whole planet full of billions of people who have gotten it wrong for thousands of years and you have to help them get themselves out of it and not do it for them it's going to be a big job that you will have to come back to again and again. Remember though evolution is a long process and in reality even a million years or so is a drop in the bucket for your spirit form and the life of the universe/Creation.

    (PS-According to Meier there are many extraterrestrials who have died on the planet and subsequently reincarnated here over the millennia. Such as descendants of the Plejaran and others who colonised earth in the distant past and died here for one reason or another. These are now living as humans with normal lives with no knowledge of their background and will go through the normal process of evolution along with everyone else on earth although some will be further along the spiritual evolutionary ladder )

    But again, just like the catholics who belive that if you believe in Jesus you're off to heaven, the lure for Meier's supporters is that they're the smartest guys in the room and have it all figured out above everybody else.
    So Billy's spirit form has done it before in various incarnations in the past, the messenger was never supposed to be more important than the messenger but we screwed that up as well and developed more religions out of it, he has not always reincarnated as a teacher but would always have been a person of great wisdom. Billy was not aware of this as a young man as knowledge is not carried forward and he had to be instructed by the Plejaran from a young age. While he is completely human his spiritual evolutive level allowed them to directly contact him as opposed to others less evolved which would actually harm them to be even in the vicinity of. This is his last time around and has been the only time in history where the message will be written down unadulterated and be able to be accessed by the entire planet through modern communication methods, when ever we get around to it. I think that the plan is through scientific developments humans will gradually abandon their religious thinking over the next couple of hundred years (800 according to the Plejaran) and physical sciences will gradually catch up to spiritual sciences and the teachings will still be there for everyone. Thanks to the people at FIGU who are helping Billy store all his collected writings and making sure things aren't changed in translations etc. Billy's spirit form unfortunately has to stay here in his subsequent incarnations until we have evolved sufficiently for the Plejarans to make actual contact which will be a very long time. He will not be involved in this role in any subsequent incarnations, so no one can say they are Billy Meier reincarnated and start another religion.

    That makes sense but you could also look at it in another way, he's protecting his legacy. If the group does take off, he doesn't want to be sidelines in history later on if John Smith shows up claiming to be Billy Meier's reincarnation, because widely adored and the original guy is lost.
    Why a farmer in Switzerland? Why does it matter, the spirit incarnates into whatever situation most suited for it's purpose,and Billy completed his purpose, would he have been able to do everything he says he has born in London/Washington/Uganda?

    Well by taking photos and writing stuff down, then yes.
    As for everyone else it's the same, if you grow up in the jungles of Borneo eating your dead grandma to communicate with her and you die you will not be reincarnated into a family of learned scientists in new york, where would be the logic in that? Evolution is about growth, it's visible in every aspect of nature which is what the spiritual teachings are based on, the natural laws of cause and effect which lead to change and growth.You can't skip from being a fish to being an amphibian without going through the long evolutive process of trial and error.

    Fair point but it's also something designed to keep the middle to upper educated monied types hanging around as well. they are being told they're eveolving and since they're relatively smart people, they can assume they're fairly on up the chain. I may not put that across very well but it seems to be a message designed for a specific type of audience.
    Compare this explanation with Christianity or Islam, you get one life, you have to do it all perfectly and two choices are yours:BOOM- you are back with God the universe creator/Snuggling up with vestal virgins just after the latest series of X-factor or BOOM- Burning in hell for eternity and no virgins ever again..To me that doesn't make any kind of sense.
    The world works through trial and error /cause and effect and growth, you can see it in the smallest life forms on earth to the largest galaxy's in the universe.
    I agree with you there. You have to question fully whatever doctrine you choose to follow in your life. It's certainly the opposite of the traditional doctrines.
    There you go, make of it what you will. If you believe in a spiritual side I think it's the only explanation I've ever heard that makes logical sense, if you don't then there is no point in discussing it any further. This is a very basic explanation of some of the concepts in which the content of the actual writings is staggering in it's scale and scope of information.
    Thanks for being civil.
    Peace.

    thanks for taking the time out to fill me in. It made for interesting reading.


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    squonk wrote: »
    Thank you for the very detailed reply. I have some comments on this below.


    It may not be how you learn but the way I see this whole debate going is as follows. We both want to explain the concept of a car to somebody who's not seen one before.
    Me: A Car is a metal cart. It gets you very quickly from A-B. Now, let's look at how it does that, getting more detailed as the student's knowledge increases.

    Meier Crew: Here is the chemical equation for petrol. Here are some documents on how petrolium burns and the chemical reactions involved. Please read this engineering document on the dynamics between the axel and the drivetrain. You can't understand a car until you grasp these concepts.

    It's actually more like this.. (Not directed at you personally, this is how it always goes..)
    Me:I came across this really cool thing called a car
    Not me: What is it ?
    Me : It's a thing for getting you around places with out walking, it's a machine..
    Not me:Explain it to me in 10 words
    Me: well its kind of complicated it's got wheels and an engine and exhaust and you can sit in it ..but you can read this magazine about it if you think you are interested in it it will only take an hour or so to understand
    Not me: Don't have time, got important things to do..explain it quickly...what's an exhaust
    Me: Well then it won't really make sense to just pick a bit out and explain it like that
    Not me:Tell me or I'm walking away
    Me:Alright...
    One hour later
    Not me:I don't like cars I only like walking.

    squonk wrote: »
    It does? How? I think it says he's lucky but that's about it.
    If you know the background behind the attempts then it's not really luck.


    squonk wrote: »
    I'm struggling to figure out how the wisdom can be discerned from the other stuff if the being isn't aware of the process anyway - but it's not something that can be definitively proved anyway.
    As I said there is thousands of pages on the nature of spirituality written detailing every aspect of the process of life death and rebirth. There is far too much to go into detail here. But no it can't be proven but it does make logical evolutive sense.

    squonk wrote: »
    But Billy isn't giving off these harmful deat inducing bad vibes? I fail to see how they will be killed though? Surely hanging around on a planet with a few billion inhabitants giving off bad vibes wouldn't be good for your health?
    As I said Billy has an older spirit form and he was tutored from a young age to do this so he can interact with them. As for the rest of us, they can shield themselves from us to a certain extent but it's not 100% reliable and highly dangerous for them if it fails. It doesn't kill them , it's makes them become highly irrational which to them is not good. Allegedly one of them was injured when she was talking to Billy in his office and didn't have this shield up, someone tried to sneak up and hear what was being said and she freaked out and fell over smashing her head on a table. So not good for them.
    squonk wrote: »
    So, you can choose to show up on a planet for reincarnation but you can't get off that planet afterwards. Presumably any plejoran who wants to do this has been reincarnating on Lyra or whatever planet they are from over quite a while. Why can they decide to reincarnate somewhere else then? If they can't go back to Lyra after their earth reincarnation, how did they get to earth in the first place given that you can only reincarnate on the planet you died on and they'd have died on Lyra.
    Plejaran or any other physical being can't decide to reincarnate anywhere. They get here by ships same as everyone else visiting.But if they die here their spirit form is tied here, unless the subsequent incarnation manages to leave the planet but then they would be human not Plejaran. Understand?It's the same for everyone. If one of us manages to get to another planet and dies there our spirit form will reincarnate on that planet or the nearest inhabited planet with lifeforms capable of housing spiritforms. It's a little more complicated than that but you get the idea.

    There are higher evolved races than Plejaran, pure spirit forms, these guys are closer in evolution to Creation and also advise the Plejaran and can decide to do reincarnate elsewhere if they wish but I don't think it happens very often. Who would want to go through billions of years of evolution then start again nearly at the beginning. So it's a special case here as we are in such a mess.

    squonk wrote: »
    But again, just like the catholics who belive that if you believe in Jesus you're off to heaven, the lure for Meier's supporters is that they're the smartest guys in the room and have it all figured out above everybody else.
    Not really, it doesn't matter what you do or believe,logically the universe will evolve whether you or anyone else believes it or not. Me understanding the nature of it doesn't change anything, ideally it should help me focus on things for my self betterment, everyone else will get there anyway at their own speed. So no it's very different.
    squonk wrote: »
    That makes sense but you could also look at it in another way, he's protecting his legacy. If the group does take off, he doesn't want to be sidelines in history later on if John Smith shows up claiming to be Billy Meier's reincarnation, because widely adored and the original guy is lost.
    Except that he states categorically that he is not someone to be worshipped, he is a teacher that should be respected for the work he is doing nothing more. FIGU who work with Billy are committed to ensuring that everything he has ever written is unchanged word for word, that way no one can claim he said this or that falsely
    squonk wrote: »
    Well by taking photos and writing stuff down, then yes.
    This location seemed to suit how everything turned out.

    squonk wrote: »
    Fair point but it's also something designed to keep the middle to upper educated monied types hanging around as well. they are being told they're eveolving and since they're relatively smart people, they can assume they're fairly on up the chain. I may not put that across very well but it seems to be a message designed for a specific type of audience.
    Evolution applies to everyone it doesn't matter what stage you are at and in regards to humans any difference between anyone else is essentially meaningless in the grand scheme of how far we have to go but there is still levels of increment.



    squonk wrote: »
    thanks for taking the time out to fill me in. It made for interesting reading.
    No problem
    Peace


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Why, if these aliens are capable of time travel, don't they travel back to a time before the first alien group interfered with us & prevent it from happening? Surely in doing that, there'd be no need for any of this Meier stuff...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Why, if these aliens are capable of time travel, don't they travel back to a time before the first alien group interfered with us & prevent it from happening? Surely in doing that, there'd be no need for any of this Meier stuff...

    According to them you can't alter the past, if you could the universe would cease to exist also if you think about it the Plejaran trying to stop the other Plejaran would cease to exist since they are their descendants. Paradox's don't exist in nature only in star trek. Nothing that has happened can be undone, you can observe it but you can't change it. No one will ever travel back in time to kill Hitler because that didn't happen. Time travel like everything else is governed by laws of nature/ cause and effect .Their explanation of how time travel works is very cool and also the only logical theory I've ever come across. It involves the speed of light which they say is not exactly constant and and the speed of the expansion of space and time which changes over eons so travelling to a different era involves the frequency of the speed of light in that time and when you get there it's essentially another dimension which is not possible to interact with bar observation without very complicated technology allowing you to do so. An what ever has happened in the past has happened ,similarly what you observe n the future will happen.From our perspective it is unwritten which is true but if you go there and observe it, it's happened and can't be changed. This is different from travelling to parallel dimensions that exist in the same temporal plane. You can do what you like there. The whole subject is quite complicated but very interesting. :)


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