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The Billy Meier UFO case Switzerland

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭dyer


    /me slaps you in the face

    wake up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭hellboy99




  • Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    hellboy99 wrote: »

    ^ debunks almost everything about this tbh.

    [/story]


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,160 ✭✭✭squonk


    Gaudon = One Who Rides With Joy. I'd say there'll be a fair few Gaudons out and about over the weekend, hammered and looking for a score :)

    Seriously! I'm amazed too that these lot aren't showing up these days. Heck, what's their problem in general. If they're knocking around, why not just make themselves known on a more tangible basis?

    Sounds like a hoax and a handy living for a bunch of layabouts at some centre who wouldn't get a job anywhere else if they weren't peddling their nonsense!


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 bergheim


    dyer wrote: »
    /me slaps you in the face

    wake up.


    Dyer,

    I owe you a reply as to what makes Billy Meier’s spiritual teaching different to what found in other organisations on the Continent. So I have looked around and found a few lines in Das Buch OM (Omfalon Murado) which Meier published in 1987. In a nutshell these lines pretty much defines the spiritual teaching of Billy Meier The so called Geisteslehre. It is printed in one of the very first pages in this book under a chapter called Erklärungen 3. It goes as follows: Part quote

    “The spiritual teaching (teaching-letters)
    The spiritual teaching letters were written by Billy, where in part additional and extended information was provided to him by the Plejarans. Billy dictated nearly all the teaching letters on tape, and over an extended period of time, a familiar sound was heard of him speaking on tape in his office. Even the last teaching letters, which he still after his accident prepared, as painstakingly as it also was for him, he spoke on tape. The teaching letters serve the extensive explanation of the most important relations in the spiritual teaching. However, they also include the introduction and tutorial in the various procedures and the way of using intuition, self-hypnosis and hypnosis, meditation, as well as human self-knowledge and self-enquiry. Furthermore, the spiritual teaching clarify about belief and superstition (The Book of Moses 6. – 12.), as well as about the principal heresies and misunderstandings in relation to spiritual issues.

    German original

    “Geisteslehre (Lehr-Briefe)
    Die Geisteslehr-Briefe wurden von Billy geschrieben, wobei ihm teilweise von den Plejadiern zusätzliche und erweiternde informationen und Angaben gemacht wurden. Billy diktierte fast die gesamten Lehrbriefe auf Tonband, und über längere Zeit hinweg war es ein vertrautes Geräusch, ihn in seinem Büro auf Band sprechen zu hören. Selbt den letzten Lehrbrief, den er noch nach seinem Unfall ausarbeitete sprach er, so mühevoll das für ihn auch war, auf Band. Die Lehrbriefe dienen der umfassenden Erklärung der wichtigsten Zusammenhänge in der Geisteslehre. Sie beinhalten aber ebenso auch die Einführung und Anleitungen in die verschiedensten Praktiken und Anwendungsform der Intuition, der Selbsthypnose und Hypnose, der Meditation, sowie der Selbsterkennung und Selbstergründung des Menschen. Im weiteren klärt die Geisteslehre auf über Glauben und Aberglauben (6. – 12. Buch Mose) , sowie über die wichtigsten Irrlehren und Missverständnisse in Bezuge auf geistige Belange.”


    Billy drew information from three sources when he wrote the Geisteslehre Briefe:

    Spiritual planes

    Messages he received from two higher spiritual planes.

    His own memory bank (Akashic records)

    The average person unconsciously receives impulses from this memory bank. Billy claim the ability to search and retrieve this information in a conscious way. From his own memory bank, also called the Akashic Records. He simply retrieved information learned over previous incarnations. Information stored there from way back in ancient times. From a number of lifetimes, when he carried out the same task.

    The extra-terrestrials

    Through numerous contacts with the extra-terrestrials. Some of these contacts were verified to take place by witnesses standing a certain distance from the landing place where Billy met up for conversation with them. A lot of spiritual information was delivered through these contacts.


    The spiritual teaching is nothing new, but instead millions of years old. Billy’s spiritual teaching has two purposes;

    Clarify all the misconceptions of the old and bring forth the new.

    The spiritual teaching letters is not meant for in-depth study of the old erroneous teaching. But to take a look at them as in clarify. Hence the word aufklären is used where the Book of Moses 6.-12. is mentioned. Which means clarify in English. I does not mean study. Hence the student is not meant to receive and spend years to study in details hundreds of photo copied pages from Das Buch Mose 6.-12. in German Gothic.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,160 ✭✭✭squonk


    and just when I thought this couldn't turn into any more of a pile of BS, reincarnation rears it's head as well as memories from past lives. Aw come on! Seriously????


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    bergheim unfortunately you are wasting your time debating with people who are relying on the information they get from reading thebiggestsecret billy meier hoax. As you well know it's full of errors and outright lies from many sources. You have to do a lot more digging around to find the actual truth, I was researching the case for three years including a trip to Switzerland before I realised how much bull**** there is put up on the internet about the case being a hoax, any idiot can read an internet page and think they know everything about a subject, the truth is much harder to come by. If anyone wanted to they can research the real case by looking for a torrent on isohunt about Billy Meier, there is over 20gb of data on the case,including the complete original investigation done in the 1970's plus all the surviving videos and pictures writings etc.. read through that lot first before taking the word of people with a vested interest in debunking Meier. I won't be posting anything else up about this as it's pointless. Don't believe anything, figure it out for yourself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,160 ✭✭✭squonk


    I haven't read the Billy Meier stuff, I haven't read the anti-Billy Meier stuff. I've relied on what I've read and seen here and I'm frankly not very convinced! How come these aliens seem to have dropped off the face of the earth since the 70's? How come they only showed themselves to Billy Meier who sounds like a narciscistic nutjob instead of picking a bunch of people from several continents? Why put all their eggs in one basket so to speak if they were really that intent on making a connection to the wider world? Why haven't they shown up on more recent times when video & audio technology has moved on so much and even the concept of beings on other worlds has become far more widely accepted and isn't quite the novelty it was in the late 70's when Star Trek & Star Wars were strange new things? In fact, they've made the whole job of announcing their presence far harder now because of this case, people will automaticaly think there's some hoax at play. With more sources and sightings perhaps spread over decades, the case would be far stronger. I'm sure if they're intelligent enough to build personal ray guns, they can figure that one out. Perhaps they just like swiss choccy?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Occams Razor really, it's far more probable that this whole story is just made up. The 'evidence' & in particular the photos, don't do the story any credence at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    The whole "flying in a way that appears fake to create more controversy" thing was the nail in the coffin for this for me tbh.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 42 bergheim


    squonk wrote: »
    and just when I thought this couldn't turn into any more of a pile of BS, reincarnation rears it's head as well as memories from past lives. Aw come on! Seriously????

    squonk,

    There is logic in reincarnation. Nature works in an on/off cycle. As in summer and Winter, day and night. Over a 24 hour period we are over one period awake and over one period asleep.

    This is similar to how reincarnation is explained in this material. A certain period one is alive as being incarnated. One then dies and spend a certain time in the beyond before a new incarnation takes place. This cycle continues repeatedly. By this evolution is achieved.

    Scientific evidence there is not, but that is also a matter of what we are able to measure. The evidence we are able to gather is largely confined to the physical, coarse matter domain.
    The Plejarans extra-terrestrials claim that with their advanced science they can measure far more than we can, penetrating into the realm of fine matter.

    On several occasions, according to the notes, Meier was given information from the extra-terrestrials about previous and future incarnations of group members and others. On one occasion this information was also checked out.

    That occasion is connected to contact 53 on 27th of May 1976. It is related to two men named Bertossi and Arends. Both men sent Billy foul letters and started a savage campaign against him and his extra-terrestrial contacts.

    Semjase told Billy that she checked out their previous life. In their old personality they did not lead a happy life either. And in their new personality they progressed little.

    Their stay in the beyond was too short, hence they carried with them parts of their previous personalities, because their comprehensive consciousness block reincarnated too early and pulled out too much old information from the memory bank.

    Semjase then goes into details about their previous life. Bertossi lived previously as August Wilhelm and he was born in the year 1867. Arends previous personality was a man named Albert Ziehten who was a hairdresser of trade.

    So Albert Ziehten was a hairdresser and at the same time he was also a publican in a tavern in a place called Elberfeld in Rheinland, Germany. Albert Ziehten was married since the year 1871 with a woman named Maria Herkel.

    There is a long story here with many details provided by Semjase which I will not go into. But to make it short both men were low life and one of them became a murder. Semjase also mentioned a court case in ELBERFELD spanning from 28. Januar 1884 until 2. Februar 1884 where Albert Ziehten was sentenced to death for a murder he did not commit.

    The real murderer was August Wilhelm who worked as a hairdresser apprentice in Ziehten’s business at the time. He was only 16. One day when Ziehten was away on travel, the young Wilhelm tried to rape Ziehten’s wife. She put up resistance and he ended up murdering her in a blind rage.

    Afterwards he blamed the murder on her husband Albert Ziehten who was wrongfully convicted. The real murderer of Maria Herkel was August Wilhelm. Albert Ziethen’s death sentence was later converted to time in jail. He died after spending 25 years in jail.
    After Semjase gave Billy this information, Billy then told her he would check if there were records of this. A task he gave to Guido Moosbrugger. There are here several photo copies of the correspondence Guido initiated and received printed in the German contact notes (page 172-180 Block 2)

    The photocopies reveal that Guido contacted a Lawyer in Kempten / Allgäu who forwarded the inquiry which he addressed to the president of the regional court in Wuppertal where he presented his client as being Guido Moosbrugger holding the position of school principal and who for scientific reasons would like information about Albert Ziehten who on the 2.2.1884 was sentenced to death.

    He also added that Albert Ziehten was a hairdresser and publican and also an owner of a tavern in Elberfeld. The enquiry forwarded by the lawyer on behalf of Moosbrugger is dated 16 June 1976.

    Reply comes back dated 21 June 1976 from the president of the regional court in Wuppertal. He advised that according to law, cases of death- and life sentences are all archived. He advised that the request has been passed on the office of public prosecutions.

    On the 2nd of July 1976 the reply comes back from this office, Hauptstaatsarchiv 4 Düsseldorf, Schloss Kalkum adressed to Guido’s lawyer in Kempten. The office of public prosecutions confirmed that the documents related to the death sentence of Albert Ziehten is located in the central state archive Düsseldorf consisting of 22 files in total (Rep. 5/578-599).

    In these files there is an essay by Paul Lindau “who is the murderer” (The monthly publication “Nord und Süd” Bd. 44, 1888). The detective story by G. Höker “ Der Zuchthausgefangene Albert Ziehten”, Berlin, Weichert-Verlag, which are not present here, is probably based on press reports at the time, the office further states in the letter. The files could be viewed by Moosbrugger during opening hours of the central state archives , Zweigarchiv Schloß Kalkum betwen 08.00 and 18.00

    So this person did exist and the details matched the detailed information Semjase provided to Meier about Arends previous incarnation as being the person Ziehten.

    Of course the possibility exists that Meier knew this information beforehand. But I don’t think so. Because this case follow a pattern, and cannot be viewed in isolation.

    I think it would be near impossible task for Billy to try and give proper evidence of whether he knew or did not know any information beforehand. Wherefore one must also look at other occasions in the case of where similar type evidence was demonstrated. And that certainly exist. The case I find most impressive in regards to evidence given in this category (spiritual nature), happened two years later, in 1978.

    An occasion deliberately picked by Billy and the Plejarans in my opinion for the reason it was a good occasion where evidence could easily be provided and checked out.

    That occasion was related to the passing of Pope Paul VI. It started in contact 108 held the 1st of June 1978. In this contact Billy meet up with Ptaah. Upon request Ptaah verified Billy’s own probability calculation that Pope Paul VI would die in his summer residence at Castell Gandolfo on the 6th of August 1978 at 20.40 and 13 seconds in the evening.

    What is worth noting here is that Ptaah told Billy they knew this exact time years earlier. They found out through an apparatus based analysis. So they used advanced technology to get this information. They also knew the place he would die, Castell Gandolfo. And they knew other circumstances related to his passing.

    Contact 113 is the day when it all takes place. This contact is dated 6th of August 1978 at 20.31 o’clock in the evening. The exact time when Billy entered the beam ship, since he was teleported on-board.

    The timing is important in this contact. He started preparing for the contact about 3,5 hours before the pope passed away. By taking a bath and changing to clean cloths. Only 9 minutes prior to the time the pope died, he walked out the kitchen door and vanished.

    The only trace he left was 3 footsteps in the wet mud, with the fourth footstep missing.
    45 minutes later he telephoned from Gasthaus Krone in Elgg. A distance 16 kilometres away. A distance it was impossible for him to walk by foot or to get to with any combination of public transport available in the area.

    The rain was pouring down, and Billy’s only means of transportation was his moped, but it was parked at his house according to the witness reports.

    So Billy and the extra-terrestrials here used two means to prove they knew details about when a future event would take place. An event they also watched in real time on viewing screens on board the craft. Billy later provided details about the circumstances surrounding the death of the Pope to Wendelle Stevens.

    Timing: Preparing 3,5 hours before and vanishing 9 minutes before.
    Distance: He was dropped off 16 km away. Impossible to walk by foot within the short time given.

    There were 4 witnesses present when this happened. They saw Billy leave, and they also picked him up by car from the guest-house where he was waiting for them after the contact had ended.

    Two of them wrote a witness statement. One of them was the investigator Wendelle Stevens. Both statements are in details. They stated the exact times when it all happened (Zeugenbuch 2001(Witness book) Page 208-212 W.Stevens and p. 213-214 J.Bertschinger)

    Looking at this and other evidence in combination with what Guido Moosbrugger found; This is what I think:

    I think the Plejaran extra-terrestrials are able to find out previous incarnations and estimate future ones. I think Semjase did find out details about the previous incarnations of Bertossi and Arends and told Meier her findings. I think Moosbrugger did an honest investigation and discovered that the information Semjase provided matched the records in the old archives.


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    squonk wrote: »
    I haven't read the Billy Meier stuff, I haven't read the anti-Billy Meier stuff. I've relied on what I've read and seen here and I'm frankly not very convinced! How come these aliens seem to have dropped off the face of the earth since the 70's? How come they only showed themselves to Billy Meier who sounds like a narciscistic nutjob instead of picking a bunch of people from several continents? Why put all their eggs in one basket so to speak if they were really that intent on making a connection to the wider world? Why haven't they shown up on more recent times when video & audio technology has moved on so much and even the concept of beings on other worlds has become far more widely accepted and isn't quite the novelty it was in the late 70's when Star Trek & Star Wars were strange new things? In fact, they've made the whole job of announcing their presence far harder now because of this case, people will automaticaly think there's some hoax at play. With more sources and sightings perhaps spread over decades, the case would be far stronger. I'm sure if they're intelligent enough to build personal ray guns, they can figure that one out. Perhaps they just like swiss choccy?

    You haven't read the Billy Meier stuff but you are not convinced....jebus..that's my point, Read through the information collected for over 40 years and you will understand why everything was done in the way it was and it's perfectly logical. This is the whole point of it, you actually have to do some work and figure it out, no one is going to do it for you or save us or land on the white house lawn and cure our problems for us. You can take a piece here and there and say it's this or it's that, but until you actually know the whole picture you won't get it. Most people are too lazy to even try and just read a web page or two and forget it because they've read something about dinosaurs and Dean Martin. People with mtv attention spans will never get it, not in this lifetime anyway. There is one message in Meiers material that runs through everything, personal responsibility for ones actions and self development, I could spend hours telling you all you need to know about why this was done and why that was done, but I didn't get to understand it all by someone else doing my thinking for me and it's no use doing it for anyone else either. You are either interested in what he is saying or you are not, if you are not then it's not for you anyway and if you are there is years of information to sift through and it's not about aliens it's about spiritual development mostly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    ...it's not about aliens...
    So he wasn't visited by aliens? He was visited by spiritual development?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    So he wasn't visited by aliens? He was visited by spiritual development?

    im-not-saying-its-aliens-but-its-aliens-thumb.jpg

    :o


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 bergheim


    dyer,

    Going back to the Video you posted called UFO bust episode1, which you claim offer evidence that the Billy Meier case is debunked

    One of several crucial points to be focused on here is this:

    Where did the supply of photographic evidence being tested originate from?

    The below is a 1994 recording from FOX television between Jim Dilettoso and Kal K Korff.

    Jim Dilettoso is the lab technician used by Wendelle Stevens and his team of investigators. So he was supplied the photo and film material directly from Billy Meier via the investigator team. No strings etc. found in any of the photographic evidence he tested.

    On the photos Kal K Korff tested, strings etc. suddenly popped up everywhere.

    I have looked around to see how Kal K Korff got hold of the material he tested and found a fax printed on page 404 in Message from the Pleiades volume 4. This is a fax Billy Meier sent Wendelle Stevens on the 25th of March 1995. It has Billy Meier’s signature on it. Here Billy Writes:

    “Concerning Kal Korff we know, that the material which he bought from the widow of Hans Jakob was already falsified, retouched and photomontaged, thus manipulated in different ways. Hans Jakob complained about that, when I met him at the hospital before he died. That does mean, I sold Hans Jakob the material I got back and didn’t realize immediately that it was already falsified. He also received my falsified material from other people.”

    Kal Korff in this interview put forth the claim that he is an UFO researcher first and foremost. He further claims he has studied thousands of cases. But when Jim Dilettoso queried him about that telling him he has not published one thing and asked him to list them. Guess what his reply is:

    "I have tonnes of newspaper clippings over the years. The producer has it here"
    (Ref 06:20 minutes into the clip).

    Having tonnes of newspaper clippings and being an UFO researcher is two different things.

    Kal K Korrf did not even have the guts to visit Billy Meier and present himself under his real name. Instead claimed to have visited the Center where he signed inn under a false name.

    Contrast this to Wendelle Stevens and his team who conducted an investigation in full honesty, under their real names and over a five year period.




  • Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    What about the branches that "disappear", or the fact that they are behind the UFO rather than being in front of it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    EnterNow wrote: »
    im-not-saying-its-aliens-but-its-aliens-thumb.jpg

    :o

    cant_read.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    cant_read.jpg

    276368805.jpg

    but

    Fake_Plaeadian_w_gun.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,160 ✭✭✭squonk


    You haven't read the Billy Meier stuff but you are not convinced....jebus..that's my point, Read through the information collected for over 40 years and you will understand why everything was done in the way it was and it's perfectly logical. This is the whole point of it, you actually have to do some work and figure it out, no one is going to do it for you or save us or land on the white house lawn and cure our problems for us. You can take a piece here and there and say it's this or it's that, but until you actually know the whole picture you won't get it. Most people are too lazy to even try and just read a web page or two and forget it because they've read something about dinosaurs and Dean Martin. People with mtv attention spans will never get it, not in this lifetime anyway. There is one message in Meiers material that runs through everything, personal responsibility for ones actions and self development, I could spend hours telling you all you need to know about why this was done and why that was done, but I didn't get to understand it all by someone else doing my thinking for me and it's no use doing it for anyone else either. You are either interested in what he is saying or you are not, if you are not then it's not for you anyway and if you are there is years of information to sift through and it's not about aliens it's about spiritual development mostly.

    I hear what you're saying but most people also have lives and don't have time to devote large chunks of time and effort into serious research. I always think if you can't get your message across succintly on one A4 page then there's something wrong with the message. There's also the point that if you hear an extraordinary claim, is it more likely that A. It's true, or B. it's a hoax? I'd go with B based on life experience and my outlook.

    The motivation of the Aliens is completely lost on me now. Why did they bother showing up at all if they only appeared to one guy or a small group and left some sort of self-help message with this guy? Is it more likely that A. they want to improve the human race or B. the guy is pulling a fast one?

    Where's my conviction to expend time on this stuff if these basic questions don't look like they're answered? Why has nobody else heard from these guys since? Frankly the alien's efforts seem largely pointless to me at this stage. It might be crass but they'd frankly be better off showing up on the White House lawn and getting into the Oval Office to see Obama because at least then there'd be less of the controversy and less distraction from their overall goal. right now it looks like they wasted their time!


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 bergheim


    What about the branches that "disappear", or the fact that they are behind the UFO rather than being in front of it?

    Dame El Diablo,

    The still photo discussed in the video clip Jim Dilettoso vs Kal K Korff is
    photo nr. 174 taken 29 March 1976 at Hasenböl-Langenberg above Fischenthal.

    This photo is originally in colours. When viewing it in normal size, it is hard to tell where the space ship is postioned vis-a-vis the tree, wether behind or in front of it. That is because of the sun light.

    So this photo needs special testing.

    The test Stevens did revealed that the beam ship was actually behind the three, not in front of it.

    It was one of the first photos Wendelle Stevens tested and he printed the test result in UFO contact from the Pleiades, A preliminary investigation report (1978). 34 years ago.

    In this report Stevens writes that the image was produced from the same internegative as used to print the previous photograph, the original photo in normal size he listed. Stevens writes that the negative was laser scanned by American Color Corporation of Phoenix Arizona, using an identical model HELL Chromograph DC 300 scanning computer with an Argon laser beam, using the same process as iInterrepro, A. G. in Basel.

    American Color made 4 separate colour separation negatives by the same method and Stevens and his team printed them back in 4 colour lithograph to obtain the result seen below. This colour print was then photographed to get this picture (unfortunately all photos are black and white in this book)

    What Stevens points out here is that it can clearly be seen that the symmetry on the left side of the rim of the spacecraft is broken by a forked branch of the tree that is BETWEEN the ship and the camera, clearly positioning the ship behind the tree. Stevens further added that when they separated the tree from the ship by colour contouring in a computer the evidence became considerably more impressive.

    He also commented that more of this could be done if the process were not so expensive. Remember this was back in 1978.

    Source UFO contact from the Pleiades, A preliminary investigation report (1978) page 352

    Hasenboel-Langenberg.jpg


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭dyer


    Original Billy Meier Hasenbol photo
    260_BM_Hasenbol_framed_OK2.jpg

    Fake remake by Phil Langdon
    265_PL_pendulum_day_099_sz.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 bergheim


    dyer,

    Your photo on top is the original photo number 174 I had in mind. It became the official photo in this series. It became printed in various books and as well it became a focus for discussion, such as the Jim Dilettoso vs Kal K Korff debate on FOX.

    In the German photo book it is listed as taken 18.02 h on the 29 March 1976

    But just to clarify:
    According to Stevens, Meier shot five 36-shot rolls of film during this contact. It was a contact which went on for some time. Two of these five films were lost in processing and were never recovered he wrote. Stevens printed several photographs from these films. He writes that the setting sun is out of the picture below.

    The enlargement of the best of these pictures clearly shows the symmetry of the rim of the space craft cut off diagonally by the forked branches in the tree to the left. So just to clarify it is the best of these two pictures he tested, in order to establish whether the tree were in front or behind the ship. Unfortunately Stevens did not number these two photos. He only put the time as 19:50 which would indicate the second series of photographs.

    So from what Stevens here wrote, two photographic series were filmed at this site this day. One series was shot at around 18:10 and the other at about 19:50 after a physical contact. Semjase’s ship first appeared to the south and east of Fischenthal and flew toward the west.

    It then returned from the southwest and approached to the position of the tree 52 yards away. That is the position of the large tree which was 31 feet tall by 21 feet in diameter. The “bushes” in the center are really the tops of a large tree 70 yards away over the hill he further wrote.



    Hasenbol-Langenberg.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭dyer


    maybe i'm blind.. but they both look in front of the tree to me really. why not post the original colour photos instead of those dull b&w's? i've seen real ufo's they look nothing like these silly objects meier has photographed.

    btw, you do realise that phil langdon's ufo's are just two plates stuck together with a few bits and bobs.. just as everyone proposed meier had done with his own models?

    another billy meier original

    71_BM_Hasenbol_wide_2_sz.jpg

    another phil langdon 'original' fake

    72_BM_Hasenbol_wide_3_w_branch_sz.jpg

    bergheim: don't believe in something unless you've seen it yourself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    squonk wrote: »
    I hear what you're saying but most people also have lives and don't have time to devote large chunks of time and effort into serious research. I always think if you can't get your message across succintly on one A4 page then there's something wrong with the message. There's also the point that if you hear an extraordinary claim, is it more likely that A. It's true, or B. it's a hoax? I'd go with B based on life experience and my outlook.

    The motivation of the Aliens is completely lost on me now. Why did they bother showing up at all if they only appeared to one guy or a small group and left some sort of self-help message with this guy? Is it more likely that A. they want to improve the human race or B. the guy is pulling a fast one?

    Where's my conviction to expend time on this stuff if these basic questions don't look like they're answered? Why has nobody else heard from these guys since? Frankly the alien's efforts seem largely pointless to me at this stage. It might be crass but they'd frankly be better off showing up on the White House lawn and getting into the Oval Office to see Obama because at least then there'd be less of the controversy and less distraction from their overall goal. right now it looks like they wasted their time!

    The message given is about personal spiritual development and self responsibility. Ask yourself this...what would be the point of delivering this message by landing on the whitehouse lawn and thereby forcefully changing the world view of an entire race of people on the planet, everything they know changed in an instant from religion to science, religious people would experience the total destruction of their world view which would shatter cultures all over the world, scientists and military would have access to technologies they have no experience of and due to not going through the process of trial and error in discovering these technologies would likely destroy us all. Evolution is a natural process with natural laws there are no short cuts to experience and wisdom, this is why they don't land on the whitehouse lawn. We have to get there through our own hard work and trial and error.
    The message was given now because this man Meier would write it down uncorrupted and not distort it in any way and it will be preserved that way now that the world has access worldwide to technology and writing such as never before. This is a long term thing, think about how old the universe is, think about the process of evolution, we are slow learners and we've gotten the core message wrong about what it's all about. Most people don't even give a thought to the spiritual side of themselves and when they do they are slaves to distorted messages from thousands of years ago and are usually whipping themselves on the backs for masturbating in case they go to an imaginary hell or blowing them selves up for eternal sex with virgins. It's all gone horribly wrong and these guys are just trying to give us a nudge in the right direction, they are not going to do it for us, for the entire planet to change it will take one person at a time over many hundreds of years.

    If you don't think there is a spiritual side to humans then don't bother with it, that's what the message is all about. In regards to spending so much time researching, I was convinced by the first message I read but I wasn't sure about the delivery which took a lot longer as there are many people over the years who have interfered with Meiers material and falsified information. It's also difficult to figure it all out when most people have an ignorant attitude towards the case and refuse to discuss it logically and when you do point out their mistakes they backtrack and say something else moronic ad nauseum. (moderators of websites can be the worst for this which makes it even more difficult)
    If you want something relatively short to read that introduces the spiritual concepts look at this:

    http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/An_Introduction_To_The_Spirit_Teaching


    Last words: Mods if you have to edit your comments to make you look less stupid you should refrain from adding more insults and leave it at that.

    Dyer: Phil Langdon and all others who have tried to recreate Meier's pictures have refused to have their pictures put through the same tests as Meiers were, which through testing showed large objects at distance.

    Ps the reason no one has heard about his in a long time is that years ago a guy called Kal Korff wrote a book debunking Meier which was widely recieved as fact by the ufo community. It has recently been proven that Korff doctored Meier's pictures and airbrushed lines into them as well as his book being full of other errors and outright lies about Meier,I know this because I spoke to the guy who illustrated his book, and he has since publicly apologised for his part in it but no one seems to care about that and people to this day quote Korffs book as evidence of hoax.

    Anyhoo I'm done. Have a look or don't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    ..(moderators of websites can be the worst for this which makes it even more difficult)

    Last words: Mods if you have to edit your comments to make you look less stupid you should refrain from adding more insults and leave it at that.
    You want to point out anywhere that I've done this?
    Tread carefully with your accusations please.


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    I wasn't talking about you. There is more than one moderator on the thread. :)
    And by the way if you are talking about the jumping branches on a video of Meiers that video has been cut, there is an existing original video where the branches don't "disappear" there is also a picture in an old wendelle stevens book from the 1970's that show the branches in front of the ship, these things are hard to find and are not known to most people . The problem with the stuff you find on the internet is that most of it has either been tampered with at some stage or the images are so degraded by digital processes that you lose vital details. I have an original first generation copy of one of Stevens books on the case and it's much better than anything you will see on the web. Meier has over 800 surviving pictures most of which are not available to the public many of which I've seen in Switzerland and before you ask why he doesn't release them it's because he 's spent 40 years answering questions about this and he now wants to be left in peace to do what he was supposed to do which is write down as much knowledge of the teachings as he can before he dies. There is a reason everything was done as it was, the purpose was to provide an ongoing controversy that remains in the public consciousness slowly opening peoples minds to these pretty far out concepts and he's done a good job as far as I'm concerned there aren't many cases like this that have survived people arguing about it for over 40 years. Before he was basically shot in the back by some nefarious people like Kal Korff his case was huge, even so the ideas have stayed in the public mind decades later people fanatically argue about it to this day on both sides and in the middle there are people who get it and are reasonable and rational about it and there are also people who couldn't give a **** either way. Honestly on the surface it does seem like bull**** because of the sheer amount of bull**** put out there by people using arguments that make no sense whatsoever for example one of my favourite ones is the "that's not a real laser gun" argument. Ask your other moderator how many real alien weapons he has seen in his professional capacity as a copy and paster? It is idiotic to state that you surmise that something is not real based on something you have absolutely no reference to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    The other mod is only another poster in this forum. I'm the only mod of this forum. So no more digs please, first, last and only warning.

    Is it not equally 'idiotic' to take it to be real when you too have no real frame of reference? The same rules apply to both sides of any argument, so less of the belittling people simply because they don't have the same beliefs that you do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    My apologies it says moderator underneath his name, didn't see that it was for games. I was merely making the point that it's not a valid argument,and it isn't, I can't prove it's real, I'm not asking anyone to believe that it is just don't use an argument like that in what should be a logical discussion, personally I'm only really interested in the spiritual aspect of the case but this is what happens when you try to discuss it, someone pastes up a picture of a ray gun saying it's not real because it doesn't look like a real space gun, I'm not saying it looks like a real space gun , I've never seen one either, that's all you can really say about it. What is real is the hole in the tree that he shot at and the line of burnt undergrowth following the trajectory of the shot confirmed and photographed by people on site shortly after the picture was taken, these things should be taken into consideration when talking about the picture but inevitably they never are. Every argument put forth against Meier can be logically rebuffed with evidence to back it up but to know this you have to research it, it's much harder to do this than simply cut and paste from others who have done shoddy investigations themselves many of which have falsified their data or just gotten things completely wrong because of lazyness or incompetence. I'm not asking people to believe anything , it's not unreasonable to expect people to discuss things in a rational manner...ask questions, that sort of thing. Unfortunately it doesn't happen in this case very often. The original post from the person concerned had belittling content directed at me which was removed after I pointed out he hadn't read my post properly then it was replaced with another one, I thought he was a mod of this thread, it's a common event in threads of this type, you can't even post anything about Meier on the most used unexplained website abovetopsecret as it gets put straight into the hoax bin without discussion! Even new evidence contradicting what has been claimed is ignored, it's frustrating to say the least for people who spend a long time trying to get to the truth of the matter. Again I apologise for the manner of my argument but the meaning is valid.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭dyer


    Dyer: Phil Langdon and all others who have tried to recreate Meier's pictures have refused to have their pictures put through the same tests as Meiers were, which through testing showed large objects at distance.
    refused to have their pictures put through the same tests as Meiers were, which through testing showed large objects at distance.
    what the hell does that even mean?

    why would they bother? christ on a stick..its in front of the tree, no its behind the tree.. the ventricular light shining off my cock at 32 degrees at the point of origin when the sun sets PROVES beyond doubt that it's real. please do continue to waste your life on earth and argue about all of these idiosyncrasies that do not matter, instead of the real point.. that being, it's FAKE... always was.. and always will be.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    You don't understand that? How can I make it any simpler? Meier's photographs were tested in the 1970's using the best technology available and the investigators concluded the pictures showed large objects at some reasonable distance from the camera. No one else who have tried to recreate the photographs have submitted theirs for the same tests because they use small models close to the camera and they would show up as such. What don't you understand? The tree shown in one of the previous posts is a very large tree, there are pictures of the investigators standing beneath it, if the object is behind it it means it's a large object in the photograph. How is that an idiosyncrasy??? Meier has a photograph of a strange looking gun which proves nothing in itself as it could be fake,fair enough, he also somehow burned an oval hole straight through a decent sized tree and burned the undergrowth behind the exit hole. That's an idiosyncrasy? It's not, it's very interesting , in the very least it's interesting to try and figure out how he did it if he did fake it. It seem a lot of trouble to go to and no one has been able to say how he did it because he didn't use a drill (The tree was out of distance of power tools and he only has one arm) or a blow torch,( you can't burn a 1" hole straight through a tree with a blowtorch) I've seen the original footage of the tree taken in the 1970's and read the original investigation reports and also actually seen the tree itself which is still there and still has a hole in it. Tell me how you fake it then? It's an 1" oval shaped hole straight through a green living tree about a foot in diameter. ?

    Here is a quote from you about the ufo subject:
    " There are a few things about discussing this phenomenon that really irk me.
    First of all, the stigma that's attached to it. Let me say, first and foremost, i am a scientist at heart, but i dont like the constrictions or the egoism of modern science. Such small minded thinking does not allow room for the advancement of knowledge. The subject of ufology gets relegated to the realm of conspiracy theory, or in the case of this board, the paranormal forum, point in case. Should not the study of attempting to prove the existence of extraterristrial life not belong to the sciences? It might well be the most important discovery of mankinds existence, and one which could advance our civilization beyond our imagination. If you speak about witnessing ufo's you're either a crackpot, hallucinating, lying, on drugs, or any other of the random mundane reasons that allow this issue to be swept under the carpet."

    Why does this rational not apply to this case? Yes there are some decidedly dodgy photographs maybe a handful out of over 800 surviving photographs but Meier has always claimed these were tampered with. If you read the original investigation conducted by Col. Wendelle Stevens even they had evidence stolen from them while they were there as did Marcel Vogel who was examining metal samples. There were over 2000 photographs taken by Meier, many were stolen by visitors/ the photographic lab he used/ other investigators etc..even the sheer amount of evidence he had warrants some serious thought. People get excited when someone takes a blurry photo of a light in the sky, Meier would go out and come back a few hours later with 40 or 50 pictures of what seem to be close up pictures of large ships all the while being followed by visitors to his house trying to catch him out. How did he do it? He didn't do it the way Phil Langdon does with models suspended from trees as it's not possible in most of the locations where the photo's were taken, again I know this because I have visited the locations. What qualifies you to say I'm wasting my life investigating this, have you done any extensive research into the case apart from googling billy meier hoax and reading the rehashed nonsense of Kal Korff (did you read my earler post) Maybe think about this before shouting about cocks.


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