GAA Infastructure

ebbsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122455505#Comment_122455505

Where did I say its fair to leave out NI.

What they did was a token gesture.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122455570#Comment_122455570

Well if you don't think it's fair to leave out the UK I'm interested in where you think the games can be held if it's not Casement.

What evidence is there that it was a token gesture? It's one of the 4 regions of the UK. Would have been a glaring omission to leave it out.

Pete_Cavan

What has fairness got to do with this?

We are getting close to the point where the stadium can't be ready for the Euros. If UEFA decides that point has been reached, the stadium will be dropped. It wont have anything to do with any concept of fairness.

ebbsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122455606#Comment_122455606

Because even the dogs on the street know it will not be held in the North.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122455645#Comment_122455645

Fairness has everything to do with it, where each region has the opportunity to host games. That's obvious.

It may not be ready for the Euros which would be a pity. I hope it will but Belfast will have it's stadium either way.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122455648#Comment_122455648

It's looking like 50-50 at the moment. The dogs on the street don't know any more than that.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122455679#Comment_122455679

If fairness dictates that Euro28 games have to be hosted in NI, and fairness has everything to do with it, then the games should happen somewhere in NI.

As already pointed out, Belfast already has two decent stadiums.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122455712#Comment_122455712

Neither of which were deemed suitable to host Euro games so why mention them?

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122455741#Comment_122455741

You said "but Belfast will have it's stadium either way", meaning the Euros doesn't matter to the Casement project. I'm pointing out that Belfast already has two decent stadiums. There is no deficit of stadiums in the city, which your posts suggest.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122455808#Comment_122455808

The Euros doesn't matter directly to Casement except to build it quicker and to have a higher spec stadium and indirectly to help build bridges and co-operation across the sporting communities.

It also matters to the economy and promotion of Northern Ireland. It be built either way. There is a deficit of a GAA stadium in Belfast unless you can work out how to fit a GAA pitch into the 2 existing stadiums.

It's a huge opportunity for the North backed by 2 governments. But unfortunately there are always those who oppose sporting infrastructure at all levels, whether it is club ground, county, provincial and national level - don't build it, scale it back, build something else etc etc. Thankfully there are committed hard working people who don't listen to such negativity and get projects done.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122455808#Comment_122455808

You can argue about Casement, but pretending that there are other stadia which can be used is just wasting our time, as these would cost as much to upgrade as Casement would.

In general, NI won't have a team much longer anyway. There will be a new bid for the rugby world cup and Casement will play a role in that.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122456491#Comment_122456491

I'm not pretending that there are other stadia which can be used for the Euros. I'm also not pretending that Belfast "needs" another stadium (it already has two which meet the needs of the users).

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122456523#Comment_122456523

Neither of these stadia have a GAA sized pitch.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122456632#Comment_122456632

So your resolution is to build a stadium with 3 times the capacity that Antrim GAA need because it would be nice to have it.

They have the stadia they want. They don't need or want another.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122456705#Comment_122456705

It is an Ulster stadium, not an Antrim one, although Antrim may use it as Dublin does Croke park.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122456747#Comment_122456747

Ulster already have a stadium which is more central, has history and is generally beloved by most of the 9 counties. It needs a €25m revamp at most. Doesn't have all the sectarian baggage that any ground in Belfast would have either.

Gusser09

Whatever you think about the politics of it all it's absolutely shocking that Irelands second city has no decent GAA venue. If this was for soccer / Rugby only it would have been built by now.

I'd love for the GAA to go out on their own and build something half decent up their. A 20K stadium with terraces at each goal end. Yes it would cost money but it wouldn't break the bank either.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122456948#Comment_122456948

They should build a nice 10k seater to a high standard for Antrim Gaa. That's what they need and they should have it. Anything above and beyond that is just ego building. Same as the crap going on down in Kerry.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122456940#Comment_122456940

In many ways I agree with you, especially given the tradition. But Casement is the result of UK money that is not available for Clones and while €25m might bring Clones into the 1990s it would still be limited in nature. I love going to Clones, but some people want more comfort.

However, I think it is shameful that you have repeated the old trope that the GAA doing something in the 6 counties is "sectarian" while doing exactly the same thing in the 26 counties is not. This indicates that you are not making a serious argument about the GAA infrastructure but have some other point to make and it is not a nice one.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122456747#Comment_122456747

Antrim may occasionally use the stadium but it wouldn't be good for them and it most likely would be loss-making for the stadium. Realistically you are looking at two games a year which would exceed the break even point. Given the location of the stadium, the benefit to the city will be negligible. It is the definition of a white elephant.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122457099#Comment_122457099

I'm not saying the GAA is sectarian. Im saying that casement and the argument about other codes playing there has sectarian baggage, you just need to look at the reaction from the protestant side to see that Casement is more devisive than unifying. Very few NI soccer fans want to head in to West Belfast to watch a match and plenty of locals won't want them there either. Rugby is less of an issue due to the demographics involved but as I mentioned earlier, Ulster have the ground they need already and it's too small for Irish games at 34k.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122457360#Comment_122457360

The crowds will depend on the success of teams at that time. Remember that 27,633 attended an Ulster semi-final between Armagh and Derry in 2005 and 19,631 for the Armagh-Tyrone Dr McKenna Cup semi-final in 2006. These crowds included people living in Belfast who might not have travelled to more distant venue. With Armagh as All Ireland champions now and Derry thinking that they should be, such crowds are possible at present also.

The ambition has to be to get Antrim to some success and mobilise the crowds for them.

The city can also benefit from having a concert venue.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122457576#Comment_122457576

So you are saying the Protestant bigots should prevent a stadium in West Belfast, which has less Protestants than Clones?

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122457576#Comment_122457576

You're looking at it very much from the loyalist viewpoint. The decision to build or not build casement should have nothing to do with pandering to them just because it may upset them. They hardliners are a big part of the reason it hasn't been built to date and shouldn't be listened to. Can you imagine the chances of the last upgrade of Windsor being cancelled because it would upset nationalists? Such nonsense.

More moderate unionists will have no issue with Casement and the GAA having a stadium just as rugby and soccer has. Casement won't cause division. Sports facilities do the opposite and if you think otherwise you havent been involved much in sport. The success of a growing GAA club in east Belfast shows that a lot of people have moved on from the nonsense of dragging politics into sport.

The demographics are changing all.the time. More and more protestants marrying catholics and younger generations are not being interested in the old tribal conflicts.

Westernview

100 %. Ulster football dominated all competitions this year and coaching standards are ahead of most counties in the south. Along with the Ulster final it is likely that semifinals and AI qualifers will be played there too when the bigger Ulster teams meet. Armagh Antrim and Down have large populations and the other big teams up there have sizeable populations and big support bases. The extra comfort of an all seater will attract extra supporters. So much potential to grow the games in a proper stadium.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122457788#Comment_122457788

The decision to build or not build Casement has had nothing to do with pandering to Unionists. The issue is that NI has no money to fund the stadium so they have been trying to extract the money from an uninterested government in Westminster. The new Labour government use the project for some good soundbites and a "building bridges" narrative but are slashing budgets. There is less respect for Unionists on "the mainland" than there is on this island so they have had no influence.

The issue is the cost and the lack of potential returns. Neither of those are going to change favourably any time soon.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122457814#Comment_122457814

All seater is more likely to turn people away. Also the location isn't going to attract people either.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122458161#Comment_122458161

The GAA can configure the stadium with some terraces, e.g. 30,000 with seats or 34,000 with terraces at the end. But even if they do not there is no reason why a seat should turn anyone away, expect perhaps those that go to Clones to get pissed.

You keep talking about the location, what is wrong the location? There is a motorway at the end of the ground and a railway station 10 minutes walk away.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122457788#Comment_122457788

Jesus, you don't even know what you're arguing for. One minute the bigots are going to provide some of the games to justify this 34k stadium and in the next breath you're saying they should be ignored and build it anyway. It's complete nonsense.

Antrim need a 10k if that. Ulster already have a provincial ground which is almost never full and now you want a 2nd which will cost millions per year to maintain. Croke Park costs over 13k per day just to keep it ticking along. Even if Casement is 1/3 of this you're still talking colossal money for a white elephant. UEFA, the IFA and IRFU won't absorb a penny of this but the GAA need to cover it regardless.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122458216#Comment_122458216

Many people like the flexibility of terraces, being able to meet up with others without having to coordinate on tickets, moving away from people you find annoying, kids have a bit of freedom, not having the disruption of people moving to and from seats, etc. It is Casement which is designed around people getting pissed, with huge corporate and hospitality areas.

No use being beside a motorway if there is nowhere to park. How many trains serve the train station there on weekends and what percentage of Ulster is actually served by the rail lines? There is nothing there for the thousands of people either pre or post match. It is a terrible location.