GAA Infastructure

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965316#Comment_119965316

We were hilariously outgunned. France has stadia, hotels and just as important public transport way beyond us.

GAA stadia are more like a bid for Mexico 86.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965316#Comment_119965316

It wasnt pointless or doomed and yes we could. And Irish Government would make it back in spades via hundreds of thousands of tourists/visitors over the 6/7 weeks of the comp.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965343#Comment_119965343

We couldn't get the Limerick Cork road built by 2023. You think we were gonna be able to get those tens of thousands around the country to matches.

We have about 2 good train lines in the country. People won't put up with having to spend all day on a train or get the bus all the way across the country especially given how unbelievably flippant Bus Eireann are about time keeping and not reporting cancelations.

Our hotels are absolute price gougers and 80e for a hostel bed in a dorm is unheard of in any other country I have ever been to.

Multiple stadia would have needed the 72m Kerry want. There is not one good ground in Connacht or Leinster outside Dublin, the small Ravenhill in Ulster and only Cork ready in Munster with PnaG a possibility with work or the small Thomond Park.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965343#Comment_119965343

your post is deluded, we had stadiums in the bid that aren’t even starting to be built now. all the stadiums that do exist were found to be seriously deficient in all but two cases even the newly built P ui Caoimh. Talking about Pearse stadium, casement and Killarney as venues which are all relics in their current state. We finished last in all the technical committees categories apart from one (we finished second in the tournament vision which isn’t a very important category)

If we do decide to host it in the next decade it will take a billion at least (and probably more; pairc ui caoimh cost 120 million for a stadium that is short of the standard required) to make the bid serious. I’d be very very surprised if the government would ever pay that much.

the fans wont be dropping a billion here or anything close to it

Ray Donovan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954868#Comment_119954868

The RDS doesn’t have corporate facilities either. That’s at the crux of the development plan Leinster have for the Anglesea Stand.

All corporate hosting is done in a nearby hotel.

To be honest Leinster have a bit of a pig of a deal with the RDS. e.g RDS keeps 100% of income from concession sales on game day.

TBH pigs will fly before you see a Leinster URC game in Tullamore. (Cusack Park Mullingar is way off what’s needed. O’Connor Park would manage it)

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965410#Comment_119965410

It isnt deluded.

We will host one in the future. There is enough politics in world rugby that we will get to host one at some stage even with world rugby looking beyond the traditional 'big 8'.

We did finish last in many of those categories but that doesnt mean things cant change for potential bids for tournaments to be held in 12/16 years time.

Many of those stadiums will need to redeveloped for gaa games anyway. We wont be hosting it in the next decade as tournament hosts are set until the 2031 and the next available tournament to host is 2035

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965446#Comment_119965446

We can in the future but it will take a political will that doesn’t exist right now. Going for it in 2023 was pointless and doomed for well established clear and obvious reasons

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965446#Comment_119965446

I really don't think people understand the massive gulf between "redeveloped for GAA" and redeveloped for a big international tournament.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965482#Comment_119965482

I don’t think the general Irish public understands a lot about how deficient the stadium infrastructure in Ireland is compared to our European counterparts.

the 2023 bidding period saw Irish sports journalists outdoing themselves in fantastical takes on how great our bid was. Tony ward said many of our stadia was “state of the art”, Billy keane said yes our hotel infrastructure is not at the level required in Killarney but us Irish and our famous hospitality would never see a stranger to our cherished land stuck…we’d take Johnny foreigner into our own house rather than leave him out to his own devices.

we just don’t get it.

roadmaster

With 30 million in debt from PUC could we see paric ui rinn go on the market?

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/cork-gaa-ceo-slams-false-rumours-that-were-clearly-designed-to-create-a-divide-between-players-and-the-board-42200700.html

PeggyShippen

Cork City council might buy back Flower lodge and make it a municipal stadium for sports in Cork

yabadabado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965343#Comment_119965343

If we won the right to host 2035 tomorrow,I'd have my doubts we could get up to the required standard done in time.

Huge work needed on every single aspect of a bid.

Probably only 3 stadiums have close to the technology and telecom resources needed.

Another few aren't built and the remaining ones need huge upgrades for a international tournament.

Add in lack of public transport and accommodation and a tournament of that size and scale is doomed imo for the foreseeable future.

I remember at the time the government announced the tournament could be worth €800m to the exchequer.

Usually those figures seem to be pie in the sky as no one ever seems to be able to back them up .

It would cost a whole lot more to get everything in place .On stadiums alone if 72m is needed for Killarney then could be similar for a few more of the planned venue's.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965936#Comment_119965936

If Killarney got the 72 million I would be pretty certain it still wouldn’t be a suitable facility to host rwc games.

hosting big tournaments is a very expensive undertaking for countries like Ireland that have little preexisting sporting infrastructure

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119909998#Comment_119909998

Jus because the rest of the provinces are incapable of building decent stadia is no reason why Munster will not continue to upgrade stadia. It similar to Soccer a well funded professional sport which was incapable of building a decent stadium by itself and even when it went 50/50 with Rugby it went bankrupt.

Munster counties have a history of decent stadia. History counts. They have adequate sites in central locations. Killarney is a viable proposal from a cost and a viability proposal.

Even if we never get the men's WRC it quite possible we would get a Rugby 7's ( although usually played in a warm country) a Women's RWC or U20's.

Killarney is more than adequate for that. Limerick isa viable stadium because of its central location and would get more games if it had two decent stands instead of none

Thursday has probably outlived it's usefulness because of its size and any redevelopment will reduce its capacity to sub 40k.

CrabRevolution

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119966280#Comment_119966280

Aside from the Mens RWC, nothing will require the use of GAA grounds.

The 2017 Womens RWC was held in Ireland and they only used an actual stadium for the semi finals and final. The rest of the games were all held in college grounds. If it gets hosted in Ireland again (not for 20+ years), they have plenty of actual rugby grounds to play in without needing Killarney.

Same with the U20 World Cup. It's played in 2 or 3 stadia, none of which are over 15'000 in capacity. Again Killarney wouldn't be needed.

The Sevens World Cup is a 3 day event held in a single stadium, absolutely no chance they'll use Killarney.

Pete_Cavan

If talking about rugby to justify the cost of upgrading a GAA stadium then that project simply isn't viable and they need to review the scope. Bringing up rugby in this thread such automatically result in a thread ban, it only drags the thread off-topic.

breezy1985

Waterford setting an ambitious target for completion. Hope to be there for the Limerick game so it would be nice to see it.

roadmaster

When it comes to redevelopments and Upgrades maybe the countys should take there average attendance for the last 15 years and add 15% to allow for championship as a guide for what size there stadium needs to be.

Then when chamionship comes if its going to look like a sell out have the supporters who go to the league games have 1st choice on tickets

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119967028#Comment_119967028

All stadia are multi use now. If you want facilities like bars and food gone is the day that any stadia will sustain itself on GAA matches alone. As well Government funding through the sports Capital grants will be critical. On bigger projects other use such as other sports, concerts or incorporating room for other events into the stadium will be critical.

Ireland has a 70% chance (IMO) of hosting the rugby world cup before 2050. If government thinks the same it will at present be putting infrastructure in place for just such an possibility.

If there is no hope of adding external events to the stadia then most developments will be no larger than 15k. However Killarney is still and will be developed as the project has multiple uses with present accomdation structure in Killarney.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119966847#Comment_119966847

Any future womens WC will be played in stadia as opposed to college grounds. At present the plans is for the event to follow the men's WC. The biggest issue is accomdation. Following events like the women's or U20 events tend to have family followings rather than just a fan following as it cheaper to follow with less accomdation costs.

What Rugby grounds have stands capable of holding 25k plus other than the Aviva or Thomond park.

Any event like a WC will required paired stadia from now on.

Dublin has CP and Aviva. Cork and Killarney are a natural pairing, Galway/ Limerick and Belfast/ Clones.

NZ population wise is no bigger than Ireland so stating Ireland has no chance of getting a RWC is also stated it never likely to return to NZ which is basically BS

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119967229#Comment_119967229

The hurling counties now have a pretty accurate average since the round robin came in.

Limerick are usually 27k at home which goes up to 30+ when Cork come to town.

Clare are practically at capacity every game at 18k.

Cork are averaging around 30k between Limerick/Tipp games above 30 and the other 2 below.

Waterford are just below capacity at 11k but I bet they will get close to 15k with the refurb.

Tipp at around 20 unless Limerick and Cork are in town. A surprising 40k saw the dead rubber game vs Limerick (current vs future AI champions I suppose)

The final gets 45k unless Waterford are in it so the sizes are not really outlandish in Munster hurling counties.

Definitely in Leinster your formula would work as many of the big games go to CP anyway.

CrabRevolution

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119967289#Comment_119967289

No Government builds stadia just in case they win the right to host a tournament at some point in the next 30 years. They do the opposite; they wait till the bid is successful and then pour money into stadium upgrades.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119967289#Comment_119967289

Other sports are not interested in using GAA stadiums apart from maybe the odd time like the Munster SA game in PUC. It can't be factored in to a Business Case because, it would be a bonus if it does happen. In relation to Killarney, you may as well be talking about hosting ice hockey matches there, such is the chance of it happening.

In regards the RWC, you 70% figure is delusional. We literally bid a couple of years ago and got beaten out the gate. The standards expected only go up over time so making the same bid again would get laughed out of it. Ireland's only realistic chance of hosting RWC is a joint bid with Wales and Scotland, that would mean using two, maybe three, GAA stadia. Proposing any more would have the Welsh and Scots telling us to cop on.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119967753#Comment_119967753

That approach won’t work in Ireland as our stadiums are mostly relics. We’d never pass the technical examination of the bid.

CrabRevolution

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119967891#Comment_119967891

Talk of Rugby World Cups is a red herring though. It's tacked on to try and justify absurd amounts of money being spent on building an oversized stadium.

Fitzgerald Stadium should be developed in line with what it will be used for. Not for the hypothetical premise of hosting games in a different sport several decades from now.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119967949#Comment_119967949

What do you think is an adequate size?

CrabRevolution

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119967954#Comment_119967954

The appropriate figure will be determined by the cost; if it costs the guts of €100 Million gets to 40'000 capacity then the capacity will have to be scaled back.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119968017#Comment_119968017

but my question was what do you think is the adequate size? I don’t think you need to factor in costs into your answer, so would it be 20,25,30,35,40?

CrabRevolution

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119968053#Comment_119968053

Costs are my only factor to be honest. If they can build a 100'000 seater for €20 Million then I'd fully support it.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119968069#Comment_119968069

is the size of the stadium adding hugely to the cost not a bit of a red herring? Is the cost of building a 40k stadium that much more than a 20k seater?

in any case Killarney probably is always going to need to have a 30k - 35k capacity. Right now it’s 38000.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119967289#Comment_119967289

All modern stadiums cant rely on match day income alone. Aviva and Croke Park cant. they need meetings and events to help keep the lights on. The match days bring in big money but have exstensive costs its the xmas parties, companies using boxes for meetings, etc that keep things going. Aviva has christmas parties 2 nights a week for next few weeks. assume croke park does as well. Many GAA stadiums need to be going far more like croke park than simply building far more terracing and no other facilities.

NZ population is similar to irelands but any event in ireland will have far more visitors than anything in Nz because of proximity to other countries....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119966280#Comment_119966280

Rugby 7s only needs one stadium and isnt "usually played in a warm country". A womens world cup and 20s need much fewer stadiums and existing rugby grounds like musgrave/thomond/donnybrook are more than enough for that.