Who thinks Sean Quinn is a great businessman now?

dr.bollocko

mod: gigino banned.
Constantly thread spoiling with any excuse to bash the public sector.

Liam Byrne

gigino wrote: »

ABEasy wrote: »

his business was based on domestic demand.

including his factory in England, which he took profits out of to bering back to Ireland ?

The Slieve Russell only accepted tourists from the 26 counties ?

He created thousands more jobs than the entire public service created in their lifetime.

If you want to post details of what he brought in, and then deduct what his current con-artist actions are costing us, I would strongly suspect that we still lose.

I know my insurance has gone up because of him despite my never having considered his operation for cover.

And that's not even taking into account that had someone ethical and decent set up (and they may well have considered it but decided against it given his connections) they could have created just as many jobs, made just as much income, except that they wouldn't have landed ordinary people with the bill for their egotistic bull**** mansion.

€3 millions would BUILD a fabulous house, let alone redecorate one in the style that a deluded self-important prat thinks he's somehow entitled to but cannot afford.

Callipo

gigino wrote: »

You could have said the same about him 25 years ago but if he had more than enough then + did not expand, he would not have created thousands of jobs and paid billions in tax over the last few decades.

He was misled by Fitzpatrick / Anglo + the bankers, that was his downfall.

gigino wrote: »

<snip>. And then Fitzpatrick the banker rings him + sells him part of the bank, that it would be a great investment ....it probably would have been had the public service regulator regulated it properly

The dogs on the street know at this stage that SQ was trying to buy Anglo. Shure he'd have his own bank then :rolleyes:

No one had to ring him to tell him what a good investment Anglo was. He and most other people knew it was a good investment. Which at the times it did seem to be.

When people in the "know" started to realise what was coming (Deposits started leaving a lot of the banks before the rest of us plebes knew) and made safe their positions, they fuked up the plan for a lot of Ireland Elite.

Then a lot of powerful mobiles started ringing and plans were put in place to save the arses of the elite in Ireland. Sadly the plan to save SQ's ass failed as the share price tumbled, even with the golden circles intervention.

After that the Govermnent took over..... to save what they could for the Elite.

Don't be under any illusion. SQ will be OK at the end of the day. He won't be joining the dole Q any time soon.

James ngt

ABEasy wrote: »

VAT, whilst collected by Quinns companies, was not a tax paid by his companies, it was paid by his companies customers. Likewise income tax & EE PRSI was paid by his employees not his companies. Cannot see how he would pay CAT, there is no VRT on commercial vehicles (except nominal fee). Therefore the only taxes the Quinns companies would have paid are CT, CGT & Stamp Duty (the later two would be one off and probably minimal considering the levels we are talking here). The idea you are suggesting he paid billons in tax is laughable and as is your statement that he should get credit for the VAT his employees paid!

The fact is that Quinns exports were minimal, his business's were based on domestic demand, therefore he did not create wealth for the country. The domestic demand means that if he didn't supply to meet the demand, someone else would have creating identical employment, etc. He gambled and lost and is now showing his true character now by trying to wheasel his way out of his obligations and screw us the taxpayers in the process. People who defend this fella make me sick!

Wrong, Wrong and Wrong. Quinns companies have paid 1.3 BILLION to the Irish state. Wages bill is 247 million annually, thats a lot of saved unemployment benefits. 83% of Quinns companies products are export, so his business's were not domestic demand, and identical employment would therefore not have been created elsewhere, dont know where you got that one, Finally companies filed their returns this week, read them before posting inaccurate comments. I Dont like what the man and his family are doing now but thats not a reason to make stuff up.

Liam Byrne

I Dont like what the man and his family are doing now but thats not a reason to make stuff up.

The Quinn family seem ok with making stuff up.

James ngt

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The Quinn family seem ok with making stuff up.

If the Quinn family jumped in a river would you?

Liam Byrne

James ngt wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The Quinn family seem ok with making stuff up.

If the Quinn family jumped in a river would you?

No, but we'd never be that lucky

4Sheets

I dont know the full facts I might read the thread tomorrow but what I do know is the sean quinn started with nothing and worked his hole off to create some of irelands most successful business's..ok maybe he got involved in some dodgy business deals in which case he should tried in a court of law and be prosecuted...this man had an amazing legacy built on a lifetime of achievement..its sad that he should be chased into the gutter just because he somehow got involved with the crooks in anglo..thats my opinion based on interviews i ve watched with the man and my acknowledgment that he was a great businessman if not now then certainly he has being for the last 30 years!

Pdfile

Howjoe1 wrote: »

There are bankrupt ordinary citizens who struggle to put food on the table for their children.

if you fail to go to school, get when the gettings good then hold onto it, thats you're problem...

sh*t, most of the rich people i know grew up in a **** background and do Extremely well for themselfs during the good times... even now, their leaving college and jumping straight into a job, though mostly going aborad... still its better then getting the 100 euro or whatever a week off the dole.


Im sorry but i can't stand the symthpatetic approach to making someone feel bad for being the best at what everyone else was doing.

We're all guilty but nobody will stand accountable.

K-9

4Sheets wrote: »

I dont know the full facts I might read the thread tomorrow but what I do know is the sean quinn started with nothing and worked his hole off to create some of irelands most successful business's..ok maybe he got involved in some dodgy business deals in which case he should tried in a court of law and be prosecuted...this man had an amazing legacy built on a lifetime of achievement..its sad that he should be chased into the gutter just because he somehow got involved with the crooks in anglo..thats my opinion based on interviews i ve watched with the man and my acknowledgment that he was a great businessman if not now then certainly he has being for the last 30 years!

He got involved in things he didn't know anything about. Whether that was not listening to advisors or believing his own PR I don't know.

He had the biggest single loss in Contracts for Difference in the world, not Ireland, not Europe, the world.

The likes of Soros and Bufet had bigger losses but over a longer period of time but made more back.

So in short, a jumped up Cavan businessman believed a jumped up Dublin banker, invested in a jumped up Irish bank and the Irish tax payer has been stung for Billions. Quinn is a great man though.

Tayla

4Sheets wrote: »

its sad that he should be chased into the gutter just because he somehow got involved with the crooks in anglo..

It's not just because he was somehow involved with Anglo, his family have a massive property portfolio, their assets are still worth a fortune but yet they are trying to get away with not paying back any of the debt whatsoever and so instead now everyone else will have to pay an extra 2% levy on their insurance to cover this while his family get to hold on to all these assets.

I'm sorry but I don't care if the man was a saint back in his boom days, surely hiding from all responsibility and expecting the rest of us to pay up cancels all that out!

ABEasy

James ngt wrote: »

ABEasy wrote: »

VAT, whilst collected by Quinns companies, was not a tax paid by his companies, it was paid by his companies customers. Likewise income tax & EE PRSI was paid by his employees not his companies. Cannot see how he would pay CAT, there is no VRT on commercial vehicles (except nominal fee). Therefore the only taxes the Quinns companies would have paid are CT, CGT & Stamp Duty (the later two would be one off and probably minimal considering the levels we are talking here). The idea you are suggesting he paid billons in tax is laughable and as is your statement that he should get credit for the VAT his employees paid!

The fact is that Quinns exports were minimal, his business's were based on domestic demand, therefore he did not create wealth for the country. The domestic demand means that if he didn't supply to meet the demand, someone else would have creating identical employment, etc. He gambled and lost and is now showing his true character now by trying to wheasel his way out of his obligations and screw us the taxpayers in the process. People who defend this fella make me sick!

Wrong, Wrong and Wrong. Quinns companies have paid 1.3 BILLION to the Irish state. Wages bill is 247 million annually, thats a lot of saved unemployment benefits. 83% of Quinns companies products are export, so his business's were not domestic demand, and identical employment would therefore not have been created elsewhere, dont know where you got that one, Finally companies filed their returns this week, read them before posting inaccurate comments. I Dont like what the man and his family are doing now but thats not a reason to make stuff up.

I find your claim that 83% of Quinns sales over the years were as a result of exports very difficult to believe! Especially considering a sizable portion of the group were insurance and quarry products. However if you have a source to this I will stand corrected. In relation to the 1.3 billion tax, again I find this difficult to believe (assuming you are not lumping VAT and employees taxes into this), especially for a company to generate this level of taxes they would need pre tax profits of €10.4 billion (1.3/.125), again if you have a link to this info I will stand corrected.

Edit: a quick google shows that 50% of Quinn group turnover in 2008 came from insurance, exports therefore did not amount to 83% or anything near it! Net profit amounted to to nearly €70m, which would give a tax liability of €8.75m which is a long way from 1.3 billion!

wikipedia.org/wiki/QUINN_group

Liam Byrne

maybe he got involved in some dodgy business deals in which case he should tried in a court of law and be prosecuted

Why the unnecessary "maybe" ?

And as others have said, the issue is how he's behaving NOW......those deals have nothing to do with the fact that he's trying to hide assets that don't belong to him and trying to prevent Anglo - and us - from getting our cash back.

Gophur

James ngt wrote: »

Wrong, Wrong and Wrong. Quinns companies have paid 1.3 BILLION to the Irish state. Wages bill is 247 million annually, thats a lot of saved unemployment benefits. ...................

Yep, it is (for the ROI residents).

What about the €700m the State has had to give to the Insurance company to prop up the insufficient reserves? (And the consequent levy on us all to pay for it?)

What about the ,almost, €3 billion he owes Anglo (now the State) ?

What about the €400m given to his children?

All told, Quinn is in very severe hock to the State and is doing his damnedest to weasel out of paying it back.

Whatever credibility and kudos he had as a successful businessman, he has lost it all. He is now a failed businessman, a failed gambler and a cheat.

When will his loyal employees wake up and see how he has gambled their futures with callous disregard for the consequences?

When, in a meeting in QD, he was told there was insufficient time to implement a project, his sole response was to ask "have I hired the wrong people?", stand up and walk out of the room.

He's a bully who got his own way for too long. Rules and regulations were for everyone else. His very limited business acumen has resulted in the current situation. From Ireland's richest man to Ireland's biggest loser.

myles james

ABEasy wrote: »

I find your claim that 83% of Quinns sales over the years were as a result of exports very difficult to believe! Especially considering a sizable portion of the group were insurance and quarry products. However if you have a source to this I will stand corrected. In relation to the 1.3 billion tax, again I find this difficult to believe (assuming you are not lumping VAT and employees taxes into this), especially for a company to generate this level of taxes they would need pre tax profits of €10.4 billion (1.3/.125), again if you have a link to this info I will stand corrected.

Edit: a quick google shows that 50% of Quinn group turnover in 2008 came from insurance, exports therefore did not amount to 83% or anything near it! Net profit amounted to to nearly €70m, which would give a tax liability of €8.75m which is a long way from 1.3 billion!

wikipedia.org/wiki/QUINN_group

James is right though not well explained. Quinns companies over 38 years have generated 1.3 bil revenue to the Irish State. obviously this is not an annual figure.
The figure of 83% export refers to Quinn Group only. These are the group of manufacturing companies mainly based in Derrylin, this would exclude Insurance, Health and these properties in Asia everyone is talking about. The major manufacturing factories in Derrylin are Glass, Radiators and plastic food containers. Quarrying products such as rooftiles, cement,sand and gravel while significantly large to most of us were a minor part of the manufacturing companies. And yes the manufacturing companies, mainly based in Derrylin which employ nearly 2,000 directly do export in excess of 80%.

ABEasy

myles james wrote: »

ABEasy wrote: »

I find your claim that 83% of Quinns sales over the years were as a result of exports very difficult to believe! Especially considering a sizable portion of the group were insurance and quarry products. However if you have a source to this I will stand corrected. In relation to the 1.3 billion tax, again I find this difficult to believe (assuming you are not lumping VAT and employees taxes into this), especially for a company to generate this level of taxes they would need pre tax profits of €10.4 billion (1.3/.125), again if you have a link to this info I will stand corrected.

Edit: a quick google shows that 50% of Quinn group turnover in 2008 came from insurance, exports therefore did not amount to 83% or anything near it! Net profit amounted to to nearly €70m, which would give a tax liability of €8.75m which is a long way from 1.3 billion!

wikipedia.org/wiki/QUINN_group

James is right though not well explained. Quinns companies over 38 years have generated 1.3 bil revenue to the Irish State. obviously this is not an annual figure.
The figure of 83% export refers to Quinn Group only. These are the group of manufacturing companies mainly based in Derrylin, this would exclude Insurance, Health and these properties in Asia everyone is talking about. The major manufacturing factories in Derrylin are Glass, Radiators and plastic food containers. Quarrying products such as rooftiles, cement,sand and gravel while significantly large to most of us were a minor part of the manufacturing companies. And yes the manufacturing companies, mainly based in Derrylin which employ nearly 2,000 directly do export in excess of 80%.

Still cannot believe they paid over 1.3 billion in tax to the state (again not including VAT and employee related taxes) as to do this they would need profits of €10.4 billion or €274m for each and every one of their 38 years in business! Again if you have a link to it I will stand corrected!

The 83%, which is being banded about by seans fanboys, is derived from selecting quinns exporting business's and ignoring the groups total income. I don't have the full figures but would imagine the export market is less than 30% of overall income. Again correct me if I'm wrong. The Quinn group entered the radiator and plastic markets in 2004, prior to this his exports were minimal compared to the groups overall income. Therefore for the vast majority of quinns history the business was lead by domestic demand!

Finally, fair play to him for creating 2000 jobs in an export lead business in Derrylin, which for the record is in the UK not Ireland!

I think the thing that drives me nuts is people defending this fella like he did nothing wrong. The sun doesn't shine out of his arse, he was a big player in a small country and through his greed and ignorance lost everything plus a bit more and now has the gaul to lump the Irish taxpayer with his debts, whilst he tries to keep his vast assets through shady dealings! I'm not going to bother posting here again, I just hope justice is done (from the taxpayers point of view).

wobbles-grogan

ABEasy wrote: »

Still cannot believe they paid over 1.3 billion in tax to the state (again not including VAT and employee related taxes) as to do this they would need profits of €10.4 billion or €274m for each and every one of their 38 years in business! Again if you have a link to it I will stand corrected!

The 83%, which is being banded about by seans fanboys, is derived from selecting quinns exporting business's and ignoring the groups total income. I don't have the full figures but would imagine the export market is less than 30% of overall income. Again correct me if I'm wrong. The Quinn group entered the radiator and plastic markets in 2004, prior to this his exports were minimal compared to the groups overall income. Therefore for the vast majority of quinns history the business was lead by domestic demand!

Finally, fair play to him for creating 2000 jobs in an export lead business in Derrylin, which for the record is in the UK not Ireland!

I think the thing that drives me nuts is people defending this fella like he did nothing wrong. The sun doesn't shine out of his arse, he was a big player in a small country and through his greed and ignorance lost everything plus a bit more and now has the gaul to lump the Irish taxpayer with his debts, whilst he tries to keep his vast assets through shady dealings! I'm not going to bother posting here again, I just hope justice is done (from the taxpayers point of view).

Looks like it was (somewhat) done today. Albeit by a court not in this country! But still, every little helps!!

Tayla

Haven't read a good news story about Ireland in a while! I was delighted to hear this today.

gigino

ABEasy wrote: »

Still cannot believe they paid over 1.3 billion in tax to the state (again not including VAT and employee related taxes) as to do this they would need profits of €10.4 billion or €274m for each and every one of their 38 years in business! Again if you have a link to it I will stand corrected!

The 83%, which is being banded about by seans fanboys, is derived from selecting quinns exporting business's and ignoring the groups total income. I don't have the full figures but would imagine the export market is less than 30% of overall income. Again correct me if I'm wrong. The Quinn group entered the radiator and plastic markets in 2004, prior to this his exports were minimal compared to the groups overall income. Therefore for the vast majority of quinns history the business was lead by domestic demand!

Finally, fair play to him for creating 2000 jobs in an export lead business in Derrylin, which for the record is in the UK not Ireland!

Fair play indeed for creating thousands of jobs and paying so much tax. If he banked in London instead of with Anglo Irish in Dublin, he would still be in business and worth billions. It did not pay him to wear the green shirt.

ronan45

I dont 1 thing. How comes he is still driving a big flash car and living in a mansion if he is broke?

MugMugs

ronan45 wrote: »

I dont 1 thing. How comes he is still driving a big flash car and living in a mansion if he is broke?

Considering he was a man known for driving a heap of crap when he was a billionaire, do you want to go ahead and back that one up ?

Gophur

MugMugs wrote: »

Considering he was a man known for driving a heap of crap when he was a billionaire, do you want to go ahead and back that one up ?

Well, he drove 03-CN-600 for a long while, it being a 6 litre S class Mercedes, so I don't know where you get "heap of crap" from?

He also commuted to his various sites by his own helicopter.

MugMugs

Gophur wrote: »

Well, he drove 03-CN-600 for a long while, it being a 6 litre S class Mercedes, so I don't know where you get "heap of crap" from?

He also commuted to his various sites by his own helicopter.

I believe the comment was made with respect to "Car" and the Helicopter went by the wayside when his directorship did.

The Mercedes was a company car. Am I wrong in the belief that his personal vehicle was an old Mondeo ?

ronan45

MugMugs wrote: »

Considering he was a man known for driving a heap of crap when he was a billionaire, do you want to go ahead and back that one up ?

Oh right Yeah i forgot about his chopper, Was certainly Prudent of him to retire her as he has no-where left to fly. (apart from Northern Ireland for sham legal purposes) S Class Merc aint bad in fairness :P

Gophur

MugMugs wrote: »

I believe the comment was made with respect to "Car" and the Helicopter went by the wayside when his directorship did.

The Mercedes was a company car. Am I wrong in the belief that his personal vehicle was an old Mondeo ?

Explain what the difference is/was, given he was the owner of the company?

The Merc was his car. Are you trying to make him out to be some way frugal?

SQ knew how to spend money. Some of it was, even, his own!

lazygal

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0116/breaking4.html


Game over?

Or will he ever make a comeback?

Trader1991

lazygal wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1111/breaking26.html

Declared bankrupt in Northern Ireland today. I hope all of those who defended him as a great businessman who did so much for his home region cop on now and recognise how much damage his speculation did to the country.

I like sean Quinn tbh. I think hes a good bussiness man who got involved in things he didnt quite understand(anglo)

wobbles-grogan

Trader1991 wrote: »

I like sean Quinn tbh. I think hes a good bussiness man who got involved in things he didnt quite understand(anglo)

Is that not kind of the defination of a bad business man?

patwicklow

He.l still live the high life just like sean fitzpatrick golfing every day in augrim.

Gophur

As part of his bankruptcy hearing in Belfast, SQ stated "I never worked a day outside Northern Ireland in my life. I have never worked anywhere else."


Brazen, or what? 100% false.

The man regularly worked out of the Insurance office in Cavan town, and, I'd guess, was in the other offices of the Group also.