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If the tri suit fits, wear it?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    And if I streamline my transition from the trainer to the treadmill (that, by the way, are practically touching each other) by turning on the treadmill and programming it in advance, I'm sure I can get my transition time down even farther. ;);)

    Good luck on your goals! You're really doing great. And I've found that by slogging through even the ugliest of workouts, there is value in the effort you spent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭insinkerator


    Thursday

    Hit the pool for an hour or so. Think I did ~500m again. Tried to keep it nice and slow and concentrate on my techniques. (Sometimes to the point where I forget to breathe :rolleyes: )
    For parts of it I felt really, really great, other parts, pretty bad, but I'm still learning, and there's plenty of time!

    Friday

    Myself and three friends organised a sort of a mini race/training brick for today. One bailed early on, so it was just the three of us. Started out really well, with a strong cycle. I ended up posting my best ever time for the loop we did (have done that loop countless times), and I'm pleased to say I didn't get any benefit from drafting anyone (I actually lost them on the flat :)) and after that it was all up and down and we were too spread out. There was one guy, who has done a couple of triathlons and duathlons before, and I was expecting him to runaway with it, but I had him for the first 5k, and after that I kept him in sight the entire time to finish at 38:34 - best time by about 90 seconds :).

    Transition was awful, we had three carefully folded sets of shoes and clothes out the front, and in the 38 minutes we were gone, my parents decided to just pile the whole lot into my car (do I sound like a whiny kid? :pac: ). So i had to retrieve everything for myself and my buddy who pretty much arrived in together, and then make sure everything the third guy needed to set off on the run, and then put away everything else. So I reckon it was about 4:30-5:00, but i'm gonna stick with my transition from the last day, just 'cause.

    Run was great too, fastest ever time on that loop again, 25:50 with a 4:38m/km avg :). I was also only about 2/3 minutes off the first guy (who 6 months ago, I think I might have hurt my back trying to keep up with him at, so I'm very happy with that).

    Cycle: 38:34
    T1: 2:32
    Run: 25:50

    Overall: 1h6m56s. So a big improvement on the last day(~5m30), but I feel it was more due to me having a bit of competition and motivation to keep up etc.

    So 9mile/14.5k LSR tomorrow after work, and then my work Christmas party. Needless to say, Sunday will be a rest day :pac:. Mostly off college next week, so I'm gonna concentrate on getting 2/3 good handy length cycles in (50/60k), and not run off them, as I feel I could to with the time on the saddle to be honest. Next week I think is the first time that I'll have a lot of time on my hands to train, since I started taking it seriously, so I'll have to be careful not to over do it. GF wants me to do the Belgooly 4 mile road race on St.Stephens day. I don't fancy running in the cold with a bellyfull of Turkey, roast potatoes and whole load of other festive excesses, but I guess I'll give it a bash anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭insinkerator


    LSR as planned yesterday. Was a little under pressure for time when I set out, but I just put in my headphones, turn off the pace notifications, and just plod along comfortable, and see where it takes me.

    The course I did was almost totally flat, bat one up and down at the halfway point, so I was hoping for some nice consistent splits. I ended up starting far too fast at 4:59m/km, and my slowest was 6:00m/km, so hardly consistent. I felt comfortable the entire time though, wasn't straining myself, didn't feel out of breath (all of these are good for LSR yeah?). So while it wasn't a consistent run, it was a very comfortable run of 13.96km @ 5:36 average. Any health benefits I would have gained from doing the run, I completely knocked out of the park later that evening at the staff party, but that's a story for another day :pac:

    Will be hitting the pool at some stage today before work, and should really get out on the bike, but the weather looks threatening. :o


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭insinkerator


    Congratulations!

    This is a RunKeeper FitnessAlert to let you know that you achieved the following milestones with your most recent running activity:

    Farthest distance
    Farthest distance in a week
    Click here to see your new personal record.

    Keep up the great work and let's see you beat these new personal records!

    Sincerely,

    -The Runkeeper Team

    It's always nice to know that someone is always watching, waiting to pat me on the back. Even if it is automated :p. That was for last week, and I also forgot to include the link to the LSR - http://runkeeper.com/user/killian1/activity/62521005

    So Monday, where I was making promises to go to the pool, and swim, came to nothing. I just sat on my arse for the day really (if only this was a competitve sport!).

    Tuesday
    Was asked to work Tuesday, on Monday night, so instead of the late morning run I had planned with my GF, had to go out early myself. Took an embarassing amount of time to will myself out of the bed.(Mental note: If I actually just get up when I wake, I could get an awful lot more sleep). Off I went, in the dark and particularly freezing cold and wind. Happy enough, until 2 minutes in. When it started hailing/snowing/punishing me. I soldiered on anyway, and recorded my best time for that loop (likely pushed on by the thought of a warm house) http://runkeeper.com/user/killian1/activity/62756782

    After work, I had to call home to collect my ID/entrance card before planning to head straight to the pool. This turned into calling home to collect my card, napping for just under 2 hours (:o ), and going to the pool. Hadn't been in the pool since the Thursday before, and I certainly felt like I could feel the difference. It was a solid enough session considering, although I am noticing that I'm consistently not getting my elbows as high as I should when I stop concentrating on them. Will have to keep an eye on that. I think I did about 20ish lengths (400m) when an entire clan of people all of whom seemed to know each other, intent on just sitting at the pool wall arrived to the general swim area, along with a swimming lesson who took half of the general swim area, and the lanes were filled with too many fast people, so I left.:cool:

    Wednesday
    Went out for a run with my gf. Intentionally put it off till 9 so there wouldn't be too much ice. Not too much ice. Good one. Pretty sure I recorded what is the slowest km split on my runkeeper account of 8mins flat. As it happens, gf has zero balance on ice. 'Twas a bit of craic though :pac: http://runkeeper.com/user/killian1/activity/62850700

    Went for a swim. Think I might have hit 600m this time. Would like to point out, just in case people are getting the wrong idea, that this is not continuous length swimming. My breathing is still poor, so after a maximum of three lengths, I need to stop and catch my breath. Along with the elbow issues, im still trying to do everything too fast, and my technique is suffering. I did however knock out one length with the pull buoy where I felt like I did everything perfectly!:) Will try for a couple more of these tomorrow. When I'm not using the pull buoy, my legs tend to sink while swimming. I spotted another girl in the pool who seemed to be still learning, and she had the same problem. I think slowing down my kick and making it bigger(if that makes sense) helps. One problem that I am having, that I don't know how to resolve, is that when I breathe I tend to sink in the water. Is this because I'm not rolling my body enough with my breath or??

    Still no bike this week!! I need to HTFU and get out, or HTFU and invest in a turbo, or HTFU and do both. Common factor to all three options? HTFU.

    Not sure how I managed to turn this little bit of training into this much writing. :o


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    Don't worry about only swimming a few laps then taking a break - breaks are allowed, especially at this point.

    Your elbows...there is a drill that you can do to help keeping-your-elbows-high start to feel natural. (and I hope I don't confuse you...but....) As your arm starts to leave the water at the end of your underwater stroke, drag your fingertips across the surface of the water as your stoke moves forward out of the water. By dragging your fingertips, this forces you to exaggerate the bend in your elbow which will keep your elbow high. If how to do this is confusing, try to picture this: arm/hand exits water by your thigh (normal exit), immediately bend elbow, keep the back of your hand facing directly forward (palm of hand is facing your feet), forearm will basically be perpendicular to surface of water (water surface/forearm/upper arm will sort of make a 90 degree triangle...sort of), drag fingertips across surface of water as arm moves forward (remember, back of hand is facing forward), finish stroke, repeat. It's a nice drill that may help you.

    Trouble with your kick? Perhaps try practicing with fins on. Really. You might better figure out your most effective kick. :) Keep up the good work!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭insinkerator


    I'll have a go off that drill so, cheers! There's a sign in the pool that says no flippers allowed, so I guess I won't be doing that. What I said earlier about making the kick deeper definitely does help, but it just goes against the way I have been kicking ever since I first learned how to swim. So when I concentrate on that, I forget to raise my elbows, so then I panic and concentrate on my elbows, at which point my kick shallows out again, and then I forget to breathe :D:rolleyes:

    Thanks for all the help though. I'd offer to thank you with a plate of freshly baked confectionary goods, but it looks like you got that covered! ;):pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    In a sprint, the kick is fast, furious and high in the water. In a distance event/triathlon, you want the kick slower and lower. With your persistence and determination, you'll get it for sure!

    And definitely no baked goods needed here. I'm already buzzing from sugar overload! :)


  • Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    Im still trying to master the kick, my feet sink too if Im not careful. Two things that help. Be conscious of pushing your shoulders/chest down (pushing the t, I heard it called). And stretch out your torso, which strangely works to pull your legs higher. And the reason we do drills is to isolate one action, to correct just that, Im like you the minute I try to fix more than one issue it all falls apart. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    Touching your thumbs under your armpits will also work for a high elbow drill.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭Bally8


    Loving this log- I'm getting loads of great tips :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭insinkerator


    Dory Dory wrote: »
    In a sprint, the kick is fast, furious and high in the water. In a distance event/triathlon, you want the kick slower and lower. With your persistence and determination, you'll get it for sure!

    And definitely no baked goods needed here. I'm already buzzing from sugar overload! :)

    So how does that work for a Sprint distance Triathlon? Should I be aiming for fast and furious or slower and lower? I'm gonna keep on learning with the slower and lower approach, as I feel that is a little more conducive, but just for on-the-day advice?
    Oryx wrote: »
    Im still trying to master the kick, my feet sink too if Im not careful. Two things that help. Be conscious of pushing your shoulders/chest down (pushing the t, I heard it called). And stretch out your torso, which strangely works to pull your legs higher. And the reason we do drills is to isolate one action, to correct just that, Im like you the minute I try to fix more than one issue it all falls apart. :)

    More things to concentrate on:o. If I don't post in the log anymore it means I got so confused in the pool, and I drowned :pac:
    Yeah, im gonna have to bring more drills into my training, rather splashing up and down lengths of the pool.
    Touching your thumbs under your armpits will also work for a high elbow drill.

    Cool, sounds good :). I actually tried a bit of this when sitting in traffic, hope no one spotted me :o
    Bally8 wrote: »
    Loving this log- I'm getting loads of great tips :D
    You and me both!! ;)

    Thursday
    Marathon plan called for a 4 mile run. I went a little beyond that and actually did. Ended up doing a 3 ish mile detour with a nice hill at the end by myself, on my way to the GF's house, did the 4 mile with her, and then ran home again by myself. Total of 12.95km. Averaged somewhere around 4:40 I think by myself, and finished the run on 5:27.
    http://runkeeper.com/user/killian1/activity/62953952

    Not sure if the extra mileage will come back to haunt me. I don't think it will. I've been pretty comfortable in what we've been doing so far, so it shouldn't have any adverse effects.

    Still haven't made it out on the bike this week. Today, hopefully!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    Sorry to confuse you, but I meant that fast and furious was employed for a sprint swimming event, and slow and low (comparatively speaking) is employed for triathlon events and non-sprint swimming events. A 750 meter swimming distance is not a sprint in swimming terms....so....keep learning what you're learning.

    With your kick....obviously keep using the kick board to practice it. You can also try kicking without a kick board by extending your arms out in front of you and clasping your hands together. Face will be in the water, so you can practice turning your head from side to side to breathe. You can also probably practice Oryx's drill of pushing shoulders down and stretching out torso. And one last suggestion, you can always flip over on your back with your arms over your head and hands clasped together to practice the backstroke kick (and you can do butterfly on your back as well). Backstroke is not freestyle, but it will work your legs. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭insinkerator


    So pretty pi**ed off with myself.. Did absolutely nothing since my last entry. Ate enough crap to rival dory's stash of goodies, and bemoaned myself for doing nothing, whilst simultaneously doing nothing about it. Changed my ways this morning though :).

    Contacted a friend of mine who is also interested in training for triathlons, asked him did he want to go out for a run around 10:30/11:00. Text back to say that it was too early for him. 0_0. I've never come across anyone to say that hour of the morning is too early (too late if anything), but anyway, off on my todd I went.

    Had planned to about 10k, but in the back of my mind I knew I didn't have time for it, as I have a meeting with the careers service in college (don't have time to do the run, yet I still have time to enter in my log, before the meeting :rolleyes: ). I started out too fast, and I just decided to myself I'd go flat out and see what I could muster up for a straight out 5k attempt, so as not to put myself under pressure to make it to college. Needless to say, as soon as I made the decision, all the chocolate/crap came back to bite me in the ass, (or my side if you will), and I got a stitch.

    Ran through it for splits of 4:14/4:14/4:26/4:29/4:17 to record 21:41, so a Personal best by a longshot (over a minute), but I'm still not particularly happy about it. I feel like I could have held all the splits sub 4:15 if I hadn't acted the prat over the weekend. Anyway, lesson learned (until next weekend :P), and I suppose I may as well chalk that attempt down as my PB.

    Going to the pool later to at last try out all the wonderful tips you patient lot have been giving me :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭insinkerator


    *Was meant to post this last night, but I fell asleep, and cbf going through and changing all the todays and yesterdays :)

    So I hit the pool twice. Once yesterday, and again today.

    To be perfectly honest, both sessions were disheartening. Sometimes I feel like I'm not making any progress. Anyway, we'll keep at it.

    First session, I tried out some of the drills people are talking about. Tried using the kickboard, to do leg drills, but I got subconscious, as I felt like I was going nowhere fast, and making an awful lot of splashing :O. Did some more swimming with and without the pullbuoy. I feel a lot better with the pullbuoy, but then I start to wonder whether I'm relying on it too much.

    What are kickboard drill supposed to be like? When I'm swimming, I want my legs to have slow and long kicks, but if I do that with the board, I literally barely move, so should I be kicking as hard as I can? Would that not go against the slow kick technique I'm trying to master? I tried using the kickboard drill to practice my breathing too, but I couldn't turn my head far enough to breath properly.

    Today's session was much of the same, didn't want to use the kickboard, as I wanted to consult here first, so I pretty much did 200m with the buoy, 100 without, thereabouts, twice, stopping after every length (not that I needed too that badly, just because I wanted to be solely focusing on my stroke, rather than keeping afloat/alive)

    Afterwards, got talking to a friendly bald chap in the changing rooms who had been doing constant lengths in the regular swim area (surprisingly not the lanes). As we were chatting, it came up that he has done a few ironmans. Did IM Switzerland last year in 11:20. Wondered afterwards, if I was chatting to a fellow boardsie.. Pipe up if you are reading this! :)

    As the swimming goes anyway, Im going to try and not get bogged down by the amount of progress I perceive myself to be making. At the end of the day, it's gonna be gradual improvements like anything else. If I keep on doing what I'm told, and keep the sessions going on a regular basis, everything else should sort itself out.

    Went for a run tonight too. Just a short one to shut up the demons inside me grumbling for not doing it. Didn't have any plan, wasn't too sure what I was going to do. Decided en route, that I would do an out and back, and picked a halfway point. Just as I reached the halfway point, I had a weird sensation in my lower right calf. It wasn't sore, it was just weird. Tried stretching it out, and like you know if you try and flatten out your foot in line with your leg, (kinda like the way a ballerina does), and you hit a point where it starts pulling at your calf, and then you stop? Well, it was like I just couldn't reach that pull point. Like I said it wasn't sore by any means. I took it a bit handier coming back anyway, didn't give me any trouble, and its perfectly fine now :confused: . I wish I could explain what happened better, but I can't, so sorry for the awful explanation. :pac: I took it handier coming back anyway, just as a precaution http://runkeeper.com/user/killian1/activity/63468292

    I think I'll just not run tomorrow, and go out on Friday one. Belgooly Road Race on Monday, my first ever. :). I was looking up the most recent results I could find online (2008, last two possibly cancelled due to ice), and saw the times. And thinking of my 5k PB, I was like, that puts me in the top 20!!. Then realised its a 4mile race, not a 5k :o. I'll be lucky to hit the top 200 :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭interested


    Today's session was much of the same, didn't want to use the kickboard, as I wanted to consult here first

    All Id say is careful what you read on D'internet ;) ... based purely on what you've just described ...

    points worth considering ... all freestyle kick ... also known as flutter kick for good reason - should be done
    a) shallow, kicking from the hip, constant fast pace, point the toes
    b) hold the board right at the front, keep chin on top of water, looking forward and physically stretch out your body as far as it will go .. you should feel this initially - this helps bring you up to the top of the water and ensure you're kicking keeps the hips up ... this is the position you're hoping to have when swimming (and the position the pull buoy is providing you with when you use it - as will most wetsuits).

    Youtube might help illustrate my points above ... best of a bad bunch - avoid the 'straight leg kick', flexing the ankles - resistence v propulsion generated is a very good point - 'quick and small'

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgZ5-oatDg8

    Hope the above helps in some way - stick at it - imho, working on the kick and getting your body position higher will save you alot of grief along the path to enlightenment - a steady 2 beat or sometimes 4 beat kick when swimming (or swimming during a triathlon of any length) will ensure you're body is nice and high, not causing any additional drag or resistance. It also gives you the ability to change pace from time to time which can be handy when grabbing a pair of feet to draft off.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭insinkerator


    Thanks for the advice :) Im heading off to the pool now, so I'll be sure to give it a go.

    Just a quick question, I got an early present of a voucher, so is it worth my while picking up those hand glove paddle things. I have heard that they are good to practice your technique, but as I'm sure you've realised, I have no idea :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭interested


    Thanks for the advice :) Im heading off to the pool now, so I'll be sure to give it a go.

    Just a quick question, I got an early present of a voucher, so is it worth my while picking up those hand glove paddle things. I have heard that they are good to practice your technique, but as I'm sure you've realised, I have no idea :pac:

    re: hand glove paddle things
    never used them - maybe someone else around these parts have.

    What I would say is that whether starting out or otherwise there is no silver bullet ... but that could be said for all 3 sports and not just swimming ;)

    As long as you continue to enjoy the challenges that come along ...


  • Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    Before you read this, know that if interested is a level 10 in swimming, Im about a -1. :) But with kicking drills, I find I cant maintain a drill with my head out of the water. Ive seen it done by others, but our coach doesnt teach it and even if he did I would avoid it, it kills my neck. Just saying in case you find it the same. Lately our kicking drills have been without boards, but with a good streamlined position (arms extended pressed against your ears,, hands locked palms down one on top of the other, just at the surface of the water. You could try it. I found it easier than pushing a kickboard through the water. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,830 ✭✭✭catweazle


    If its one thing Interesteds trainings sessions are noted for its oodles of kicking. The 8 x 100 kick still sends a shiver of pain through me. Easily the biggest improvement for me over the last year, I used to do it with fins and it was too easy, so I started to dog them out without the fins - from hardly moving and being late for work every time there was kicking drills I am much better I no longer have to drop the head into the water to get forward momentum and am even starting to pester the slower breast strokers in the lane with some overtaking. It has brought my speed on a good bit as I assume I have better form in the water with the legs raised up

    As regards the paddle gloves I have them a year or two, they are ok, I hardly ever use them, I assume the aim is to maximise your catch and pull. A lot of people say to stay away from the paddles as you are chancing straining your shoulders unless you are a strong swimmer, so I assume the gloves are a compromise between paddles and bare hands

    Perhaps buy the short fins rather than the gloves and start using the kickboard with a view to ditching the fins after a few weeks or hold on to the voucher as you will need to buy a triathlon wetsuit closer to race day. Try closing your fists and swim in the water instead, will save you money on the gloves :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    I've used paddles a few times, but never liked them and my coaches never advocated them.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    Plus, until you've mastered the stroke in good form, I'm not sure using paddles/hand gloves is a good idea. Fins are definitely going to give you more value - but I know your pool doesn't allow them. You may have to figure a way around that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,830 ✭✭✭catweazle


    Dory Dory wrote: »
    Fins are definitely going to give you more value - but I know your pool doesn't allow them. You may have to figure a way around that.

    Didn't read that - I would call their bluff and bring them in, have them in a concealed bag by your swimming lane I assume it is just to keep kids away from bringing them in along with their bucket and spades. So if you are subtle about it I can see them turning a blind eye


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭insinkerator


    Wow, thanks for all the advice guys :)

    So I went to the pool, did some alternating drills between the pull buoy and kickboard 200m pull / 50m kick / 100m pull / 50m kick / ~150m of a regular swimming. ~10 seconds rest between some lengths, a bit longer between others. I'll be heading in again today, and the pool will be closed for three days for christmas, so I'll try to condense as many of my lengths together as I can physically manage (and without my technique going to pants - no more pants than it already is :pac: ), and tire myself out, as I'll have plenty of time to recover.

    Every so often with the pull buoy, towards the end of the length, I get maybe 4 strokes where I feel excellent in the water. However, being critically honest, I'm still not reaching far enough forward to pull my stroke back, and my breathing technique is still not great. Its much better on my right, than my left, but its still a little bit head out of the water to breath, moreso than roll my upper body to breathe. I think/feel anyway..

    As for the kickboard, the first time I tried, I think part of the reason I found it so difficult was I think I was actually holding the board incorrectly (:o :o ), I found it a lot easier (to not sink at least) this time. It was quite tough on my legs though. I did my damnedest to "kick from my hip" like what they said in the video interested linked. Although, by the end of the second kickboard drill my quads were getting tired, so I assume I was doing it wrong? :o My neck was sort of stiff towards the end too Oryx, but I think I'll stay with the board for the time being anyway, just so I can concentrate solely on my kick.

    As for the fins, it says on the website that fins aren't allowed, so I might ask the lifeguard on duty the next time I'm there. It seems to be a consensus of no on the paddles then, suits me fine, saves me a couple of euro.

    Interested, you mentioned in one of your posts about maintaining a two or four beat kick. What does that mean?


  • Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    The beat of the kick is how many times you kick per arm stroke. Its good to know it as you adjust it for different distances. But to be honest I wouldn't try to figure that out just yet. For ages I could only barely figure out my arms while staying kicking, let alone count the kicks. It will just add another layer of confusion to it right now. Time will come when you can sense the kick and speed it up or slow it down. Just get it right for now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    I agree totally with Orxy on not burdening your pretty little head with counting the number of kicks per stroke at this point. Eventually you will find a rhythm to your swimming (or a rhythm may find you), and part of that rhythm will be the number of kicks per stroke....and the number of kicks per stroke will/should vary depending on the distance you are swimming - the shorter the distance, the quicker the kick (you should employ a quick kick if you are doing some sprint drills - 25 meters, 50 meters, 100 meters)....the longer the distance, the slower the kick (2 or 4 as interested mentioned - and this is what you will want to employ during your races). At some point, you may want to slap on a wet suit and try swimming in that. You will find it keeps you up in the water quite nicely, and its buoyancy should have a positive effect on your stroke/kick as a whole. It should also give you added confidence in the water.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭insinkerator


    I feel that this is going to be a pretty long post. Apologies in advance.

    So pretty poor couple of days surrounding christmas :/

    Didn't go for the swim that I was banging on about above. Decided I'd go for a cycle with a friend instead. 10k in, got my first ever puncture on the road, pulled in to fix it, and bang, neither of our pumps worked :rolleyes: By the time I got my bike back home, I was just over the entire fiasco, and wasn't in any form to fix the puncture and get back out (puncture still hasn't been fixed :O) Pretty pissed that I passed on a swim for that, but, what's done is done.

    Christmas Eve, and Christmas day, I knocked out some fairly excellent(depending on what way you want to look at it) eat/drink sessions. St Stephen's day beckoned, along with my first ever running event! (Note to self: drinking till 3am, doesn't help matters)

    Firstly, some pretty poor planning, I feel. Why would I organise to take part in my first running event ever, on St.Stephen's day?! Anyhow, it was the Belgooly 4 mile road race. Myself and four friends did it. Got down there, registered, froze our arses off for a small bit etc etc. Got to the start line, a little more standing around, and then people just started running, catching everyone in the groups behind them by surprise. I expected a more organsed start tbh. Off I went anyway. Possibly should have jostled for a place nearer the front of the starting group, as a lot of slower runners (feels great to say that! :P ) got in my way, although it probably helped me to pace myself on the other hand. Weaved in and out of a people, found my stride and tried my best to settle into it. The first mile dragged, and I was thoroughly disheartened when I saw the first marker, that we had only gone a mile, as I was starting to feel it already (it being Christmas dinner more than anything). Just after mile 3, I really started to struggle, and my pace slowed, and people started passing me (not too many actually passed in total though). When we got nearer the end, I saw people starting to up their speed, but I thought the finish line was a bit further on than it actually was (not very visible) so I held off, till I looked up and saw the line, only about 20 metres ahead and panicked.

    Anyway, I enjoyed the race, and I felt that If I came with my A game cap on, I would have done 26:xx, and I ended up with 28:45 and an overall place of 159/568. Considering the circumstances, I'm quite happy with the time. In the pic below, I'm number 619, the blurry chap in the background, wearing black

    IMG_7146.jpg

    Next couple of days, got back into my routine of eating and drinking. Eventually got up off my arse and went to the pool this evening. While I could feel the week out of the pool, I didn't feel as bad as I thought I would, and I certainly have had worse sessions in the pool. I am still struggling with breathing though. It's bad when I use a pull buoy and its worse when I don't. Do any of you swim gurus have any tips? :)
    I also discovered today, courtesy of a youtube video, that I get a lot more pull in the water with my stroke if I flatten my hand as much as possible, rather than cup it (probably common knowledge), like I have been doing since I first learned when I was a kid :cool:

    Also, did a few a more kicking drills today, first one was awful, they improved a little after that. Should the board you use be a firmly above water? When I use it, it's usually about an inch below the surface. Am I leaning too hard on it, or should I just use two, as I'm a big guy? Also, are tired quads a sign of incorrect technique when trying to "kick from the hip"


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    First off, nice pic and nice race!

    Next....as interested mentioned, be careful what you learn off the Internet. (and perhaps be careful what you learn from us loggers?). With that being said...to cup or not to cup, that is the question. I think the most important thing is to make sure your hand/fingers grab the water in tight fashion without letting any water get through. For me, I cup....ever so slightly.

    Kick board....for me, the top of the board is slightly out of the water while the bottom is slightly under the water - the nose is up, in other words - and arms straight out in front, but in a relaxed manner. Tired quads sound about right. :)

    As far as breathing goes, you might want another session with your instructor. And if you do have another session, then you might want to start a list of questions and use that time to go over all of your questions with the instructor.....and then report back to us with what you've learned!!


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    When you say you're struggling with your breathing what do you mean? Are you struggling to breathe under water/keep the head under water? Is it head position when you're coming up for air? Is it everything?

    Edit: I've a couple of videos I got in a mag made by the guys at swimfortri.com will try to upload them, haven't really looked at them myself yet(I've had them two years) but they might have something helpful in there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭insinkerator


    Dory Dory wrote: »
    First off, nice pic and nice race!

    Next....as interested mentioned, be careful what you learn off the Internet. (and perhaps be careful what you learn from us loggers?). With that being said...to cup or not to cup, that is the question. I think the most important thing is to make sure your hand/fingers grab the water in tight fashion without letting any water get through. For me, I cup....ever so slightly.

    Kick board....for me, the top of the board is slightly out of the water while the bottom is slightly under the water - the nose is up, in other words - and arms straight out in front, but in a relaxed manner. Tired quads sound about right. :)

    Well, I think I feel better when I don't cup, I just need to remember to keep my fingers tight, otherwise I'll be going nowhere fast. Good to hear that tired quads is a step in the right direction, I was worried that since it was "kick from the hip", that if my quads tired, it meant I wasn't being hip/hippy (:p) enough.

    When you say you're struggling with your breathing what do you mean? Are you struggling to breathe under water/keep the head under water? Is it head position when you're coming up for air? Is it everything?

    Edit: I've a couple of videos I got in a mag made by the guys at swimfortri.com will try to upload them, haven't really looked at them myself yet(I've had them two years) but they might have something helpful in there.

    From what I can tell, its a mixture of my head position, and not twisting my chest enough. My instructor was telling me that my head should be rolling with my chest, and only just getting out of the water, but all that gets me is a mouthful of chorine. However, at the moment when I breath, whatever way I contort myself to try and both roll my head with my body, and also get my head high enough for air, when I go to put my head back into the water, I sort of crash back into the water, and sink a couple of inches, at by the time, I have properly righted myself, it's time to breathe again (if I was to follow a 3 stroke/breath plan). :rolleyes:. If you could upload the videos, it would be great, but don't put yourself to any bother or anything :)

    I went to the pool again today, splashed out 600m I think, split it up into drills with the kickboard, pullbuoy and just regular swimming. To be perfectly honest, I'm not seeing any major improvement, but at the same time, I was slow to improve with both my cycling and running, when I started out with them, and swimming is probably the hardest of the three to pick up. For some reason I just seem to have lost my patience.. Anyway, I'll just have faith in the program, plod along try and improve. I'll give my instructor a call, and set something up in two weeks time or so, and see what she says. Thanks for the tip about making a list of all the questions Dory :)

    Had meant to go out for a run today too, but that fell by the wayside. A week of early starts in work, followed by a night of drinking, followed by more early starts finally caught up with me. Back to college tomorrow too, and I think the less free time I have, the better I manage it, so hopefully training will have a little more structure over the next few weeks.

    Got a new addition to the family this evening too, a big old foam roller. I remember reading about them on here before, and hearing people going on about the pain. I was a quite skeptical to say the least, as I was imagining a sort of a foam lint roller, and couldn't understand how it could be that sore. Obviously, I've come to my senses and I picked one up today. Had a bash off it this evening for a few minutes. It hurts :o How often should I use it? Daily? Weekly?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    I think hiring the instructor is wise (do make that list :))....but.....(I can never help myself when it comes to dolling out swimming tips).....def grab the water with your hands (tight! I've even seen some folks tape their fingers together - never done that myself, so I'm not necessarily advocating it)....roll the shoulders and stretch your lead arm forward to help open your body slightly to facilitate your head turn for breathing (if you have a wet suit, it would be interesting to see if wearing it puts you high enough in the water to help make breathing easier for you) (oh, and you can practice turning, rolling, stretching, breathing on land)....also, don't be afraid to only breathe on one side for now. Swimming is hard, and learning it later than earlier in life is even harder, so keep at it and be proud of yourself for persisting with it. (wish I could be poolside with you....) For your purposes, it's going to be all about stroke efficiency.

    I'll be interested in hearing about the roller as I have never used one myself.

    And I'm guessing you are hip enough. ;)


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