Do you listen to Irish Original music or prefer cover bands?

mackg

The Jammy dodger wrote: »

Good point. But in the small ( did I say small? maybe not so ) town I come from such as Dundalk they seem to purposely go out to see these bands do their sets. Again I cant speak for the whole of ireland and I can only come in from the small town perspective as opposed to cities because thats all I really know.

Could just be a case of people going to the gig cause they know the lads in the band? What's the population of Dundalk.

guitarzero

The Jammy dodger wrote: »

Great post guitar hero

couple of questions:

1. what is a pasteurist? lol

and

2. What formula works for you? what do you suggest bands or artists could do to flesh out their music and make it stand out more?

First question is quite a toughy and Id need more time. :pac:

Second question? What works for me: Its always going to be a matter of taste no matter what.
I suppose a band that has the ability to recognize its own relevance and impact. To be able to discern their music from their influences and still see something worth delivering. A bad that plays with an honest intention of giving an emotion a shape and volume thats not subjected to any song/genre as reference other than thier heart and guts. What happened to subtlety in music, what happened to pacing, shifting the mood, narration, thought out composition. Most of the great bands were only in their 20's yet writing some of the heaviest lyrics. I always thought these where important factors in delivering a sentiment.

I see music as a means to inspire and enrich peoples inner world. I just feel that bands these days simply want a quick fling with fame and play to the audience as such. Yet, there are fewer and fewer bands - on the music scene - who seem to provide this and I certainly dont see them on stage. Perhaps our lifestyle have become less richer and illustrious that music has become a reflection of such. Perhaps music was a means to express something that doesnt reside in anyone any more. Im not sure but I do recognize that the stage is not a place I may find any inspiration.

WindSock

mackg wrote: »

You heard the man, now go and change your vote in the poll :P:pac:

I can vote?

OP generally most people go out for a night to hear music they know and like so they can all sing along and have a jolly wee time of merriment and debauchery and afterwards when the DJ gets on and plays the usuals and latest chart muck so they can grind and elbowtit each other.


That usually doesn't include making a conscious decision to see some obscure amatuer wailing their songs into a mic with their acoustic guitar for a spell (not referring to you specifically here )

mackg

WindSock wrote: »

I can vote?

OP generally most people go out for a night to hear music they know and like so they can all sing along and have a jolly wee time of merriment and debauchery and afterwards when the DJ gets on and plays the usuals and latest chart muck so they can grind and elbowtit each other.


That usually doesn't include making a conscious decision to see some obscure amatuer wailing their songs into a mic with their acoustic guitar for a spell (not referring to you specifically here )

As long as you are accompanied by whatever man is in charge of you iirc.

I agree with windsock's second paragraph which is why I think it is a good idea to have up and coming bands play midweek like they do in the Pavillion in Cork, good way to break up the week and bands are not cutting into elbowtitting time.

The Jammy dodger

guitarzero wrote: »

First question is quite a toughy and Id need more time. :pac:

Second question? What works for me: Its always going to be a matter of taste no matter what.
I suppose a band that has the ability to recognize its own relevance and impact. To be able to discern their music from their influences and still see something worth delivering. A bad that plays with an honest intention of giving an emotion a shape and volume thats not subjected to any song/genre as reference other than thier heart and guts. What happened to subtlety in music, what happened to pacing, shifting the mood, narration, thought out composition. Most of the great bands were only in their 20's yet writing some of the heaviest lyrics. I always thought these where important factors in delivering a sentiment.

I see music as a means to inspire and enrich peoples inner world. I just feel that bands these days simply want a quick fling with fame and play to the audience as such. Yet, there are fewer and fewer bands - on the music scene - who seem to provide this and I certainly dont see them on stage. Perhaps our lifestyle have become less richer and illustrious that music has become a reflection of such. Perhaps music was a means to express something that doesnt reside in anyone any more. Im not sure but I do recognize that the stage is not a place I may find any inspiration.

Not that I'm claiming to be on par with you here, but you seem to have a firm grasp of music.

I hear what your saying. ''Dont play or write music your friends and family like, play music YOU personally like. And, if it works, it works.'' Correct?

I can honestly say I fell victim to this. But believe it or not, some musicians have a talent for writing what people wanna hear so they can make money and the crowd be please ( mostly in film/tv though because of the different genres they must compose for ).

and most musicians really do have a talent for writing what it is that pleases them and yet generates a good income ( yet sadly not in Ireland ).

I think what really prevents a musician from developing is his/her ego. Example: A musician has already established his talent at writing a good song and decent lyrics, but....needs a little push, and the first criticism that comes his way ( instead of viewing this criticism as gold that can really help him progress in his career ) he bails out and shrugs it off as if he is the best in the world at his craft. Even if you mention to him getting singing lessons ahhhhhh thats WORSE. lol. Or if you give him a book by a well established songwriter on how to write good songs, he shrugs it off too. Yet these are the tools that can help bands establish their art and craft of writing.

Another thing that prevents bands and artists from getting heard, enjoyed and signed is their sound quality. Most record companies these days are looking for the perfect business model, Indie or major, with demos that sound like the finished product, who have an established fan base off and online and are gigging it like mad with a good sound, so then the companies can take their cut. They dont wanna develop artists anymore. And I think artists will just have to move with that.

But I really have to give the thumbs down to record companies for that attitude because I've heard many a garage band demo from a band that sounds hot and could really be developed given the right investment and so on.

Perhaps I've digressed from your post and topic but thought I'd speak whatever was on my mind anyways.

Jam

WindSock

Arrrr. Which would you prefer, art without success or success without art?

Obviously both would be great but if you do what you enjoy, with passion and dedication, success usually follows.
Playing what you think people want to hear makes you nothing but a glorified jukebox.

The Jammy dodger

WindSock wrote: »

I can vote?

OP generally most people go out for a night to hear music they know and like so they can all sing along and have a jolly wee time of merriment and debauchery and afterwards when the DJ gets on and plays the usuals and latest chart muck so they can grind and elbowtit each other.


That usually doesn't include making a conscious decision to see some obscure amatuer wailing their songs into a mic with their acoustic guitar for a spell (not referring to you specifically here )

yeah I hear what your saying. But it's also merriment to go watch an Original band/artist. I still think that what you have just done is describe the tragedy as oppossed to coming up with a resolution on how to fix the tragedy lol hahahaha.

I think we should take them by force and make them watch these bands lol.

I dont know I think it's whatever way my town is fixed is that....all the clubs and highlife is on park street and earl square and the Spirit store venue is too far away to notice?

Anyhow I think it would be a good idea to stick a venue right in to heart of it all ( centre of town ) to really get the crowd in. But sure even then it prbobaly wouldnt work and they'd still prefer long haired harry bashing out wonderwall on sunday evening.

The Jammy dodger

WindSock wrote: »

Arrrr. Which would you prefer, art without success or success without art?

Obviously both would be great but if you do what you enjoy, with passion and dedication, success usually follows.
Playing what you think people want to hear makes you nothing but a glorified jukebox.

Not really unless your a covers band. A jukeboxes job is to play covers. But with an artist that writes specifically what music supervisors want for film/tv is still writing original stuff. Fair enough he is giving them what they want, but he still enjoys creating orginial material that they want, and then there are some that dont but need to put food on table. So I'm not sure the Dukebox comparison would work too well there. Maybe ''Music Supervisors slave'' yeah but not ''dukebox'' lol

guitarzero

I think with band music the shackles need to be shaken off a lot more. I think folks need to be more emotionally honest with themselves and life. Try some new chords, new sounds, get in touch with yourself a bit, try a new pattern of song structure, be conceptual without fearing what folks will think. I know this is Ireland and playground rules still apply in the adult world but I think music and art in general should be a place where pure expression can take place as an outlet. Without art we are reducing ourselves to the other species or transhumanism is on its way. There is so much to avail of today in terms of reference and musical hard/software yet we seem to endorse trends until they are all but dead and buried.

The Jammy dodger

guitarzero wrote: »

I think with band music the shackles need to be shaken off a lot more. I think folks need to be more emotionally honest with themselves and life. Try some new chords, new sounds, get in touch with yourself a bit, try a new pattern of song structure, be conceptual without fearing what folks will think. I know this is Ireland and playground rules still apply in the adult world but I think music and art in general should be a place where pure expression can take place as an outlet. Without art we are reducing ourselves to the other species or transhumanism is on its way. There is so much to avail of today in terms of reference and musical hard/software yet we seem to endorse trends until they are all but dead and buried.

I see what you mean. And I'm guilty of saying ''bring it back to the 60's'' when we should be moving it forward all the time ...BUT... When you talk about try out new chords, there is only but a handful of chords one can play on the guitar, be they up front or diss chords to the point that your going to reflect SOME band or artist in your music.

Thats the reason we have influences in our bio, to let the listener know what they are in for, albeit my influences include ''Pearl Jam, Queen, simon and garfunkel''.

I think that what makes an artist originial is to have at least a weird mixture of styles going on in his music, not so much that it seems obvious but enough to seem original.

Look at radiohead, everyone thinks they are original but I just think they are a modern day bad version of pink floyd with a twist and yet it's this twist they have that makes them original.

ascanbe

sgb wrote: »

Just give me Westlife, they have all bases covered

Or, at least, they have the seats of their stools covered, until that final, dramatic key-change.

The Jammy dodger

ascanbe wrote: »

Or, at least, they have the seats of their stools covered, until that final, dramatic key-change.

Key changes rock. ( insert Queen here )

guitarzero

The Jammy dodger wrote: »

I see what you mean. And I'm guilty of saying ''bring it back to the 60's'' when we should be moving it forward all the time ...BUT... When you talk about try out new chords, there is only but a handful of chords one can play on the guitar, be they up front or diss chords to the point that your going to reflect SOME band or artist in your music.

Thats the reason we have influences in our bio, to let the listener know what they are in for, albeit my influences include ''Pearl Jam, Queen, simon and garfunkel''.

I think that what makes an artist originial is to have at least a weird mixture of styles going on in his music, not so much that it seems obvious but enough to seem original.

Look at radiohead, everyone thinks they are original but I just think they are a modern day bad version of pink floyd with a twist and yet it's this twist they have that makes them original.

Yeah, not a Radiohead fan myself. I agree on the originality and chords part, when it comes to frequencies and timbre theres a limited spectrum which is where it comes down to the musicians innovation. Its an easy trap to fall in when people say "its been done". They could have said that after Beethoven, after Orchestra, after so many bands and era's but they continued to outdo in their own way. Its not a job but a discovery. Its no ones responsibility but perhaps a vocation. Stuart Copeland said himself that there are only so many notes chords etc but yet something new is always happening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX8XbSiEzPQ . I think these guys kinda proved in the 80's that you can break into something new using something old very well. It may not be everyones cuppo tea but it still nicely incorporates different elements of music, emotion etc. Their 1st 2 albums was like WTF. So I believe there are more boundaries to break, but I think its a question of believing it first and then using tact, creativity, honesty.

The Jammy dodger

guitarzero wrote: »

Yeah, not a Radiohead fan myself. I agree on the originality and chords part, when it comes to frequencies and timbre theres a limited spectrum which is where it comes down to the musicians innovation. Its an easy trap to fall in when people say "its been done". They could have said that after Beethoven, after Orchestra, after so many bands and era's but they continued to outdo in their own way. Its not a job but a discovery. Its no ones responsibility but perhaps a vocation. Stuart Copeland said himself that there are only so many notes chords etc but yet something new is always happening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX8XbSiEzPQ . I think these guys kinda proved in the 80's that you can break into something new using something old very well. It may not be everyones cuppo tea but it still nicely incorporates different elements of music, emotion etc. Their 1st 2 albums was like WTF. So I believe there are more boundaries to break, but I think its a question of believing it first and then using tact, creativity, honesty.

Yeah I think that for every time Noel Gallagher picked up the guitar and worried about whether or not his current song sounded like the beatles, he'd be on the dole.

My motto is ''just write it and make it sound original in the arrangment''.

Wow that roxy music is rockin man. Loved it, seems like a mixture of Led zep, the who, rolling stones all mixed into this weird milkshake of sound. Instead of a normally chorded structured song it sounds like....... an theatrical experience almost like Pink Floyds album.

Nice really liking it.

Naomi00

What I don't like about the Irish music 'scene' is that bands and record companies are always promoting their music, with the mindset that 'someone has to like it' .


I think that's the complete wrong approach to music. I've just been watching a documentary about Nirvana and it reminded me about this. They were just playing music because they wanted to, not to get famous or anything. They all had played in bands that got nowhere and didn't expect their band to be popular. It was just part of a music scene and that got big on its own.
That's a more natural way of music being popular. If you play gigs and people like your music. Not going on tv or the radio talking about yourself like loads of Irish musicians do.

A better way for a band to be well known and to get fans is through the music scene, that's how it happened before, now every band just expects people to like them.

And to the people above wondering why fans don't go to concerts; I think a lot of more popular Irish music is kinda boring indie easy-listening stuff. I'd say the reason why their gigs aren't more popular is that 1. That type of music live couldn't that much fun really and 2. Maybe their fans aren't really that into them, just like a few songs.

The Jammy dodger

Naomi00 wrote: »

What I don't like about the Irish music 'scene' is that bands and record companies are always promoting their music, with the mindset that 'someone has to like it' .


I think that's the complete wrong approach to music. I've just been watching a documentary about Nirvana and it reminded me about this. They were just playing music because they wanted to, not to get famous or anything. They all had played in bands that got nowhere and didn't expect their band to be popular. It was just part of a music scene and that got big on its own.
That's a more natural way of music being popular. If you play gigs and people like your music. Not going on tv or the radio talking about yourself like loads of Irish musicians do.

A better way for a band to be well known and to get fans is through the music scene, that's how it happened before, now every band just expects people to like them.

And to the people above wondering why fans don't go to concerts; I think a lot of more popular Irish music is kinda boring indie easy-listening stuff. I'd say the reason why their gigs aren't more popular is that 1. That type of music live couldn't that much fun really and 2. Maybe their fans aren't really that into them, just like a few songs.

I see what you mean, but I dont think there is a natural or unnatural way about making it in the industry. Yes some bands dont want it and yet get it and become popular, and some bands do want it and yet become popular also. Both formulas work. I find it hard to think Dave from the Foo Fighters created that band just to have a laugh, nah, he created it to make money and put his food on the table and keep his head above the water like everyone else in the same industry.

Dont believe people when they tell you that they are not in it to get a record deal and are in it for the laugh, dont believe them. This guy one night outside a local venue of mine years ago was telling me how much he hated oasis and that I should change my outlook on my influences ( he was in a deathmetal original band ) and I told him ( for the laugh ) that I'm in a band with the old members of Oasis Bonehead and that all our tunes are like oasis influenced but we are missing a good drummer ( the guy I was speaking to was a drummer ) and I said '' we are being signed by universal records but thing is...we are missing a drummer....*sigh, I put my pint down* suddenly he lifts his head and says ''well if your looking for a drummer I'd love to drum for you guys''.................:eek:

See what I mean? A deathmetal fan and drummer who just told me he hates oasis all of a sudden wants to be in my new band with an Oasis member and Oasis influences? :rolleyes:

Everyones in it for the record deal, fame and money. Maybe not everyone, but I certainly dont trust musicians not even myself when it comes down to money and record deals.

So dont believe musicians who say '' I wanna be discovered naturally''. NONSENSE!!! they'll dress up as Marylin munroe for a day just to land a deal and thats the truth *he says as he fixes his wig and white fluffy dress* :eek::D

guitarzero

Naomi00 wrote: »

What I don't like about the Irish music 'scene' is that bands and record companies are always promoting their music, with the mindset that 'someone has to like it' .

Ha, spot on. I guess cuz theres no real scene here, I dont I even know what scene means 2bh. The scary thing is that music is legacy. Now with pop radio dishing out rubbish it almost feels as though a link will be broken, replaced with a new, cheap, plastic one. And now the future generation will use that as a platform or reference. Kinda nuts. Music has always been a major force in ever culture and now it seems as though there is very little room for its nurturing and impact on society. There was a kind of truth in music that politicians could never live up to. When things got tough we had music to fill that need, a companion when lost or broken. Music is like a harmonizing tool, we use it to keep a balance and regain sense of spirit, soul.

guitarzero

Btw jammy

Also check out The Avalanches album 'Since I left You' and DJ Shadows 'Endtroducing'. Both stunning albums, well worth a listen.

The Jammy dodger

guitarzero wrote: »

Ha, spot on. I guess cuz theres no real scene here, I dont I even know what scene means 2bh. The scary thing is that music is legacy. Now with pop radio dishing out rubbish it almost feels as though a link will be broken, replaced with a new, cheap, plastic one. And now the future generation will use that as a platform or reference. Kinda nuts. Music has always been a major force in ever culture and now it seems as though there is very little room for its nurturing and impact on society. There was a kind of truth in music that politicians could never live up to. When things got tough we had music to fill that need, a companion when lost or broken. Music is like a harmonizing tool, we use it to keep a balance and regain sense of spirit, soul.

True I mean, take a look at this thread. 26 yes's to original music and probably all by people who are into original music. and with the hundreds of people voting and posting in AH nobody else has bothered with this thread other than pure music lovers of the the underground scene. I am beginning to think ''a prophet is without honor in his own land'' is beginning to ring true when it comes to Irish Orginal artists/bands.

Giruilla

The Corewnas

Naomi00

The Jammy dodger wrote: »

I see what you mean, but I dont think there is a natural or unnatural way about making it in the industry. Yes some bands dont want it and yet get it and become popular, and some bands do want it and yet become popular also. Both formulas work. I find it hard to think Dave from the Foo Fighters created that band just to have a laugh, nah, he created it to make money and put his food on the table and keep his head above the water like everyone else in the same industry.

Dont believe people when they tell you that they are not in it to get a record deal and are in it for the laugh, dont believe them. This guy one night outside a local venue of mine years ago was telling me how much he hated oasis and that I should change my outlook on my influences ( he was in a deathmetal original band ) and I told him ( for the laugh ) that I'm in a band with the old members of Oasis Bonehead and that all our tunes are like oasis influenced but we are missing a good drummer ( the guy I was speaking to was a drummer ) and I said '' we are being signed by universal records but thing is...we are missing a drummer....*sigh, I put my pint down* suddenly he lifts his head and says ''well if your looking for a drummer I'd love to drum for you guys''.................:eek:

See what I mean? A deathmetal fan and drummer who just told me he hates oasis all of a sudden wants to be in my new band with an Oasis member and Oasis influences? :rolleyes:

Everyones in it for the record deal, fame and money. Maybe not everyone, but I certainly dont trust musicians not even myself when it comes down to money and record deals.

So dont believe musicians who say '' I wanna be discovered naturally''. NONSENSE!!! they'll dress up as Marylin munroe for a day just to land a deal and thats the truth *he says as he fixes his wig and white fluffy dress* :eek::D

See that's the thing. He recorded a bunch of songs he had writted while in Nirvana after Kurt Cobain died because he's an artist and that's what an artist does. He said he never thought he would drum again after that, but recorded a tape of his old songs under the name 'Foo Fighters' so people wouldn't know it was him. He didn't have the intention of being in another famous band, it almost happened by accident in a way. It sounds a bit silly but it's true. He didn't get some people together, record an album and go around trying to make people listen to it just to get fans. He got bands members because when people heard his tape they wanted to hear it live too. I know that's a very unusual way to start a band though.


Some people are wondering about there being a music scene in Ireland. I suppose it depends on where you're from and the genre of music. I've been going to gigs since I was 14 and they were all organised by people the same age as me. There's not as many on now, but its all local bands, really just a bunch of friends playing music for the craic, not being serious. I think that's how people should start bands, because it's fun not because you want to be famous. That's the way a lot of the big bands were started.

The Jammy dodger

guitarzero wrote: »

Btw jammy

Also check out The Avalanches album 'Since I left You' and DJ Shadows 'Endtroducing'. Both stunning albums, well worth a listen.

HAHAHAHA LOVED since I left you and the video very very funny and very orginial video by the way.

Gosh, what a breath of fresh air. lol. Loved how they had that kind of decco period of the 20s in their vid and then moved it to the current with a mixture of 80's with the aerobic dancers.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stephen-Mc-Elligott/135095119925983

check out my facebook page if ya like.

Might not be your scene but my choons are influenced by vintage early day kinks but kept current in sound quality. Got new realse of next single comin out next week too, with horn section and influences of Divine Comedy and beach boys in there.

Jam

guitarzero

Naomi........................................a/s/l?

The Jammy dodger

Naomi00 wrote: »

See that's the thing. He recorded a bunch of songs he had writted while in Nirvana after Kurt Cobain died because he's an artist and that's what an artist does. He said he never thought he would drum again after that, but recorded a tape of his old songs under the name 'Foo Fighters' so people wouldn't know it was him. He didn't have the intention of being in another famous band, it almost happened by accident in a way. It sounds a bit silly but it's true. He didn't get some people together, record an album and go around trying to make people listen to it just to get fans. He got bands members because when people heard his tape they wanted to hear it live too. I know that's a very unusual way to start a band though.


Some people are wondering about there being a music scene in Ireland. I suppose it depends on where you're from and the genre of music. I've been going to gigs since I was 14 and they were all organised by people the same age as me. There's not as many on now, but its all local bands, really just a bunch of friends playing music for the craic, not being serious. I think that's how people should start bands, because it's fun not because you want to be famous. That's the way a lot of the big bands were started.

Rubbish to all of that. If he didnt want people to know him he wouldnt of went ahead with foo fighters and became as famous and well established as he did. Niamh, people are in it for the money full stop...regardless of what ''cool'' story you hear about them fluffed in the media...they are there to entertain at doing what they love and do best and make money.

guitarzero

The Jammy dodger wrote: »

Rubbish to all of that. If he didnt want people to know him he wouldnt of went ahead with foo fighters and became as famous and well established as he did. Niamh, people are in it for the money full stop...regardless of what ''cool'' story you hear about them fluffed in the media...they are there to entertain at doing what they love and do best and make money.

If he werent interested in the cash etc he woulda taken up the blues

The Jammy dodger

Speaking of blues check out this guy:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhxBaw0LPzY

Naomi00

The Jammy dodger wrote: »

Rubbish to all of that. If he didnt want people to know him he wouldnt of went ahead with foo fighters and became as famous and well established as he did. Niamh, people are in it for the money full stop...regardless of what ''cool'' story you hear about them fluffed in the media...they are there to entertain at doing what they love and do best and make money.

Not like that, but as in he wanted to know what people would think of the songs without knowing that they were his, the same way some authors write under another name. I think it was because he wanted to know what people actually thought of his music and not whatever preconcieved ideas they had about him,good or bad. Obviously when it got a good reception he didn't care about people knowing who he was. What I meant was that he didn't just hire a few people, make a cd and promote it for the sake of it. I get what you mean though.

The Jammy dodger

Naomi00 wrote: »

Not like that, but as in he wanted to know what people would think of the songs without knowing that they were his, the same way some authors write under another name. I think it was because he wanted to know what people actually thought of his music and not whatever preconcieved ideas they had about him,good or bad. Obviously when it got a good reception he didn't care about people knowing who he was. What I meant was that he didn't just hire a few people, make a cd and promote it for the sake of it. I get what you mean though.

Ah now I get what you mean. My bad.

Yeah reminds me of meself at least from a local perspective. I hate having friends and family listen to my music. So I took my demos to an A&R guy, he said it was crap sound quality and structure and that I needed to do this with the songs in question, such as insert a bridge or something maybe add a good arrangment and I took his advice, did just that so he was delighted. It got a rave review and forwarded.

It's much better that way rather than listening to your friends and family tell you it's amazing just because they dont wanna hurt your ''feelings'' but again music is all subjective. One mans gold is another mans mugwort. lol

sthubbins

Random thread I know but I was wondering if anyone knew where I may be able to buy/download backing tracks from? I've visited a fair few websites now but no success. Could be the songs I'm looking for backing music to are kinda old and not that well known but if anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate it! Cheers.

The Jammy dodger

You'd be better served asking that question in the music section under equipment or something like that.