Continuing Saga of 26E..........

Peter Rhea

t c wrote: »

. . . some of the stations, particularly Channel 4HD, all of the CBS channels, movies for men+1, men & movies etc, only come at 45% or less, in fact, Channel 4HD is gone altogether, even though BBC HD's are perfect, why???????

Skew?

Those are EB1 channels & for some reason it requires 7-8 degrees more negative skew than for the Astra 2 transmissions, so some compromise is required.

The Astra 1 & 3 groups seem to follow a similar pattern with regard to their neighbours.

t c

Cheers Peter. Will "Skew" tomorrow.

Peter Rhea

There could also be alignment issues, as the bigger dish will discriminate more between 28.2 & 28.5.

swoofer

Get the black ultra tuned in on 28east ie get it setting exactly with the best picture on the lnb arm, use c4hd as a guide, there is more than one sat at 28east, and skew lnb, use more than one channel, itv, bbc, ch5 uk, Al jazeera, I cant remember all the weak channels on 28east anymore.. It means flicking between channels so hard when on ur own. Use the sky box if you can. Once you have 28east solid on all channels. Then I would use the foxsat as that has the best tuner. Use mbc 11919, 27500. The dish has to move only a minute amount and when you plug in the foxsat the signal meter will show 100% on both lines this means you are at 28. you need to see 100% at top and 80% at bottom = mbc = 26

Then raise dish as high as you can above the roofline and move only a fraction and wait and wait. if nothing skew lnb and wait. then put at correct elevation and wait. dont worry about 23.5 and its 28 and 23.5 thats the problem, so strong. we need a few pics with lnb on dish on its own, a few of dish from side. its got to be straight. and measure that dish again. I would say dish is too close to the roofline.

just checked on a triax1.1m = Dimensions: 100x105cm

t c

Thanks GB.

Weather against me at moment, pissing again.

My short term problem is getting all 28 up to speed again as a lot are breaking up in the rain, CBS,Movies for men, shopping, (the wife likes to have a look), so will have to try and sort them soon.

The funny thing is that on the T.Mate on the "install screen", strength is about 77% and Quality 97%, but when you go to CBS Action for example, quality is 30ish%?

Am I right in assuming as I have 28, 19 and 13 all "ok", that to improve 28 it is a matter of elevation or skew as azimuth is a compromise between the 3? Remember, before I started messing all was perfect.

Here are a couple of photos showing Triax when I first put it up. It might show roof line a bit better. The small dish and aerial has been removed.

TC

swoofer

yes saw those before, that roofline looks very suspect. could you put dish where the sky one was and then .

i know about poor signals!!! its blazing sun here so be patient on its way to you. i think you are snookered because you need sky!!. my idea was put black ultra on dish, get sky at its zenith ie 100 on all, use weakest channels etc. mark everything, elevation, lnb skew, distance of lnb in holder, its usually bang in middle of holder but can be slightly differerent. Now once u have sky you can relax, then when u need sky just go back to it. !! gives you more time.

can you raise dish higher? dont worry about 19 and 13, not a lot fta, its 26 you want.

by the way you could raise dish and put sky one below.

and watch that lnb arm, keep weight off, also check everything is dead straight, a fraction can bugger up things.

need a better pic of dish bracket at back side on, to see if it is exactly straight, may do a few of mine later. in fact i will to show how above roof i had to go.

dont give up yet, and dont keep switching that lnb holder it will drive you mad!!


and by the way my 1.25m arrived dented!!

gbc

Peter Rhea

t c wrote: »

Am I right in assuming as I have 28, 19 and 13 all "ok", that to improve 28 it is a matter of elevation or skew as azimuth is a compromise between the 3?

You could try moving the lnb slightly further west (towards the end of the bar) to get a bit more out of 28.5.

t c

Spot on Peter. That is exactly what I had to do and it worked a treat.
Also moved 13 a bit and it also improved, so next problem,,,,, 26.

Hope to have help Saturday and will give it a go then.

Thanks.

TC

pelisor2000

t c wrote: »

Spot on Peter. That is exactly what I had to do and it worked a treat.
Also moved 13 a bit and it also improved, so next problem,,,,, 26.

Hope to have help Saturday and will give it a go then.

Thanks.

TC

you should start with 26e...

Hibrasil

t c wrote: »

what multi block holder would you recommend Apogee?

As you know I want 13 to 28E, with 19 and 26 in between.

I do find the Triax holder limiting in its adjustments, but it is what has been suggested for my needs.

TC

I have considered getting a Triax (TD88) dish and multi LNB holder.....but discussion on this topic does not inspire confidence......what Dish / multi LNB holder combination would be recommended as being the best available. Thanks for input on this (as a passing comment....and not highjacking thread)

swoofer

what's your location and what sats do you want? how high will you need to place dish? what receiver do you intend to use and lnb. Why not go motorised? And why such a small dish?

and do you have a CLEAR view of the sky looking south?? ie no trees, no overhead wires, need to point dish over rooftops and so on.

as for hijacking thread, we forgive you

gbc

Gerry Wicklow

I recently upgrade to one of these http://satworld.ie/product-info.php?Maximum_e85_Multi_Focus_Satellite_Dish-pid247.html It's a tad expensive but a doddle to install. The arm is pre-marked with the common angles 28, 19, 13, 5 etc. I centered it on 19(wasn't sure at first what else I could see) and the others only needed minor tweaking.
I had a brief try for 26 without success which may be a size issue ( no jokes):)

banie01

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

I recently upgrade to one of these http://satworld.ie/product-info.php?Maximum_e85_Multi_Focus_Satellite_Dish-pid247.html It's a tad expensive but a doddle to install. The arm is pre-marked with the common angles 28, 19, 13, 5 etc. I centered it on 19(wasn't sure at first what else I could see) and the others only needed minor tweaking.
I had a brief try for 26 without success which may be a size issue ( no jokes):)

Regarding the T85 dish see the performance chart below,


There has been a lot of discussion regarding that dish here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056319160

From looking at the graph here a 1 mtr dish completly outperforms a T85 and even an 80cm dish offers almost the same performance with the benefit of lower price
the 1 cavaet on this is that the dishes in this sample are centred on 16e in a central europe location so 28.2 shows significantly weaker compared to Ireland.
The graph is more to show a range of dishes performance from the same location.
But as an example I have a TD88 centred on 16 and get 28.2e in on a 12deg offset at 94% on BBCHD.
From that analysis the t85 is a complete waste of money.
The only benefits to be be gained in a T85 over say a TD88 is the fact that as it ships with a multiarm LNB there are some monetary savings along with an easier setup due to the premarked LNB arm.
Performance wise though a TD88 with a triax multiarm will match its perfomance and even better it in some circumstances but in reality they are about even....
But a 1mtr+ Dish in a multi LNB setup will blow a T85 out of the water across any spread.
And from personal experience a TD88 will also

Gerry Wicklow

What was putting me off was all the discussions of holders not fitting right and needing to be re-drilled plus the total costings of dish, holders, arms etc. That's why I opted for the lazy way, knowing everything was matched and more or less preset.
A 100 would be lovely but i don't have the room.

Gerry Wicklow

Its a pity i didn't find that thread before now. I searched for E85 not T85. Ah well we live and learn

Zardoz

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

Its a pity i didn't find that thread before now. I searched for E85 not T85. Ah well we live and learn

If you are happy with the dish then its a good choice.
I'm not so sure of the accuracy of that graph ,I was the person who posted it on here ,it was originally on a German site and created by a Romanian user ,who was vague on how he created the graph.
If you are receiving 28e to 5e then thats a good spread.

Hibrasil

GBCULLEN wrote: »

what's your location and what sats do you want? how high will you need to place dish? what receiver do you intend to use and lnb. Why not go motorised? And why such a small dish?

and do you have a CLEAR view of the sky looking south?? ie no trees, no overhead wires, need to point dish over rooftops and so on.

as for hijacking thread, we forgive you

gbc

I live in West Dublin.....and the Sats that I hope to get at the moment are my present 28.5 / 28.2 degrees East Eurobird 1 / Astra 2....with the initial addition of 19.2 degrees East / Astra 1 for HD+ and possibly later on Hotbird @ 13 degrees East and Atlantic Bird @ 5 degrees West.

I will be mounting dish about 7 foot off the ground (same height as my Sky mini dish)....although at a slightly different location)....line of sight for 28.5 and 19 degrees East should not I think pose a problem.....and going to the extreme....5 degrees West would not I think pose a problem either...using Dishpointer the roofs of houses in the line are some distance away.

Thanks GBC for your reply...I am most grateful for your input

banie01

Zardoz wrote: »

If you are happy with the dish then its a good choice.

+100 on that point!
I came across as overly critical of the T85 in my earlier post....
Sorry!
Zardoz is right tho if the dish does the job you want then its the right one for you.

@ T.C. Sorry for the frustration you are having getting 26e.
But take the advice of GB, Pelisor and Pete....
It is vital that you set up your dish with just the standard single LNB holder 1st to allow maximum optimisation of the 26e signal.
Lock that down 1st and then worry about your offsets.
Are you using the multiarm modded to allow a prime focus LNB?
Or are you trying to get 26e on the multiarm as standard with the slight offset inherent without modding?

dxhound2005

OP if you are still at this stick with the tp on 11919 on 26. 12602 which was very strong is now a lot weaker. 12182 is the strongest now but 11919 is probably the most consisent.

t c

Well tried again this afternoon with help.

Raised dish as high as I could to try and clear roof, checked all connections and trueness of mast. It is vertical in both directions.

Mounted single LNB holder with Inverto Ultra Black and set to 28E. Moved slightly west and up/down elevation, no joy. I do find the adjustment of the Triax elevation extremely fiddly and not very easy or reliable.

Re-fitted multi LNB holder and tried again with Inverto at prime position, still no go on 26 but no problems at 28.

Have 28.2 90/100, 19.2 90/100 and 13 85/80, (could probably have improved this except I was getting p'ed off......... ),on the Foxsat HDR.

So great quality on all 3, so I do feel that if I can get those 3 with good signals, but yet nothing on 26E, either it is not possible for whatever reason where I am, or I am doing something really silly.

So, at this stage I am giving it up for awhile, but if there is anyone who wants a challenge and try and sort it, pm me and we will give it a go.

Thanks to all for their help and if there is any progress will let you know and will keep an eye on the forum for ideas.

By the way dxhound2005, did set the tp to 11919, I think I did it correctly anyway, still no joy..

Cheers

TC.

Gerry Wicklow

Like TC above, I spent several hours chasing 26. I eventually got it but it is VERY touchy and variable, signal wise. Based on some of those Sun locator type sites, it seems I'm very lucky and shouldn't be getting 28 at all because of local geography, never mind 26. My next move will be to add more height, which will need major metalwork, so will take some time.
Edit: I should thank the other posters above for the 11919 tip, otherwise I'd still be outside.

Peter Rhea

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

My next move will be to add more height, which will need major metalwork, so will take some time.

What kind of obstacle are you trying to get over?

Gerry Wicklow

It's the shadow of a mountain. I'm on a steep slope and the Sun was barely over the (mountain) horizon. A few feet higher would make a drastic difference I think.

t c

OK, grand kids gone so a few minutes to myself and here is present situation...

Re-adjusted dish yesterday and raised it about 18" to clear roof line. Fitted single Black Ultra to try for 26E, no go. So at present things are like this........

4 LNB's on Triax holder connected to 3 four way Diseqc switches, from left, 1st LNB connected to 28.2 and Diseqc A, next LNB is the Ultra with no signal but connected to B on switch, next 19.2E and C on switch and finally, 13E and D on switch.

On a Humax Foxsat HDR on the Satellite Setting menu, A on the switch is 28E at 90% S/100 Q, B, zero, C, Astra 19.2 90% S/100% Q and D, Hotbird 13 at 85% S/80% Q. So happy enough over all. (what should I expect?).

Also, I noted that if I go to Astra1 on 23.5 and set it to Diseqc A, I get 100% S/ 100% Q.

What I kinda want to know is that with the above info, which way should I move the dish, as preferably, I don't want to remove multi holder again, (lazy!!!!!!)

If anyone has any suggestions of how to adjust dish with above results, I will give it a go as soon as I can.

Cheers
TC

Peter Rhea

t c wrote: »

I noted that if I go to Astra1 on 23.5 and set it to Diseqc A, I get 100% S/ 100% Q.

You mean when you go to 23.5 in the receiver menu? What's the tp frequency? A couple are shared with 28.2.

t c

Yeah you are right Peter.
Went to menu and set up Astra 1 and did a download, but I got the 28.2 channels even though it said 23.5 on the menu..

TC

Peter Rhea

23.5 east is the Astra 3 position.

swoofer

well at least you are not giving up!! the dish has to move a miniscule amount to the right when looking from behind and to the left if you are at the front. thee levation on the dish for 26e has to be exact and the skew on the lnb but with the skew for sky the ultra will detect a signal, then you adjust when signal found. the lnb holder then adjusts the elevation for the other sats. so when say, you get 28east with the single lnb and the elevation is correct ie signal 100%, you then raise the elevation on dish a tweak, its minute, say you were turning a nut, its about half a turn, then move dish a fraction. With the lcoation of your dish and the triax elevation system its very very tricky. I dont know if you can actually stand close to dish. And the lnb arm is now heavy so dragging it down but with the results you have got already that,s catered for.

I have had a think and one way you could go is get a motor for the dish, ie a superior dark motor from tech uk, I know you want 13 and 19 but all the free stuff is on 26e. You could use sky dish for 28 and then motorised to move to others. The motor is USALS and that in effect points the dish extremely accurately to each sat and as you have done so much already it will be a doddle for you to set up. Once you get 26e then you could sell on motor.

another trick is to mount dish at back of house, if that's feasible and use roofline to block cables at front.

those signals are ideal but those sats are very powerful and with big dish they will work with 60q and you want 56q on MBC so room for manouvre. as a matter of interest it looks as if IBAs dish is very low down so he could adjust easy.

tomoro i am going to try the foxsat again, this time select channel, say 11919, then move dish and see if i get a picture rather than signal strength. have you saved the channel in the foxsat even though there was no signal?

gbc

ps or borrow a usals motor!!

t c

Hi gbc.

I appreciate point about back garden. How what's the min distance from two story house could I mount the dish, and how high would I need to go?

Also, is it not a very long run of cable and would I not get problems there?

I had thought of motor and might go that way yet.

Yes, as I am using 3 Diseqc switches, 2 for foxsat and 1 for technomate, I have saved 26E as "B" on the switches and other satellites work ok.

Is it possible that I might not be able to get 26 at all? I know I am near to iba, but could I be in a black hole???????????

I do not believe that cables or roof line are an issue now since I raised dish, I will try and take pics tomorrow from front of house and post.

TC

Gerry Wicklow

I used a similar method to GBCs. Using a meter just confused things. for me the distance between 28 and 26 was so small when you try to max the signal you suddenly found you were chasing 28 instead. The key was getting a channel tuned in first and then maxing that. I moved away from 28 until it dropped out and then came back a tiny bit and scanned there to find a picture. (if that makes sense)