The Commute

Frowzy

Old_-_School wrote: »

That sounds crazy to me. Like a lot of people, I knew nobody when I moved to Dublin first. I moved in with 3 strangers in a houseshare through an ad in the Herald. We went out for drinks regularly and I became good friends with them and their circle of friends. Same happened with work. Joined a 5-a-side kickaround and met a few friends that way as well. Using the excuse "I knew absolutely nobody there" is nonsense. You make friends if you put in a small bit of effort..

Delighted for you......
..... I don't play soccer tho

I didn't want to live in Dublin, I spent 3 years away, I wanted to move home... Not to Dublin, what part of that is so hard to understand?

Frowzy

southsiderosie wrote: »

Honestly, from some of the comments I read on boards, you would think that people would rather go back to the 1940s, when the vast majority of the population lived in rural areas, and Ireland was one of the poorest countries in the Western world. I am not from Ireland, and I honestly don't understand why non-Dubs are always whinging about the city - that's where most of the true economic growth over the last two decades came from. Building houses in far-flung exurbs was an exercise in unsustainable lunacy.

Rubbish....
I didn't whinge about the city or put it down, I simply stated that I don't want to live there, I find it interesting that people who live in, or think that people should move there, result to using derogatory terms to refer to non-Dublin people or places.....

mossyc123

southsiderosie wrote: »

Honestly, from some of the comments I read on boards, you would think that people would rather go back to the 1940s, when the vast majority of the population lived in rural areas, and Ireland was one of the poorest countries in the Western world. I am not from Ireland, and I honestly don't understand why non-Dubs are always whinging about the city - that's where most of the true economic growth over the last two decades came from. Building houses in far-flung exurbs was an exercise in unsustainable lunacy.

Proof?

AFAIK it wasn't until the 1950's that we fell behind Western Europe and stayed there until the 1980's.

The poor economic situation Ireland was in during those 40 or so years was down to a number of factors.

Large workforces on the land as opposed to in factories wasn't ideal, but at least we got a few quid from Agri while Dublin provided what exactly during those years apart from Guinness?!

Dublin was the driver of the last 20 years with the IFSC, etc but there were/are many MNC's outside the Capital aswell... Intel, Pfizer, HP... it's not all Bog and Building Sites y'know!

southsiderosie

Frowzy wrote: »

Rubbish....
I didn't whinge about the city or put it down, I simply stated that I don't want to live there, I find it interesting that people who live in, or think that people should move there, result to using derogatory terms to refer to non-Dublin people or places.....

When did I say that you did?

fran oconnor

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Can someone explain to me what is the "Dublin Scene"?

Taking Drugs, beating people up and robbing :rolleyes:, its an ok place to come to work, but lord above don't bring your kids up in it eh.

bonzos

Dont see what the why such a big deal is being made about this programme.....John O'Donoghue had to fly over to Paris on a regular basis on "business" and Mary Harney(and hubby FAS Brian) had to fly to NZ for 17 days in search of work.She also had to fly to the super bowl on business,this has being going on for years. Both these people are now among our countrys 440k+ unemployed:rolleyes:

Frowzy

southsiderosie wrote: »

I honestly don't understand why non-Dubs are always whinging about the city.

southsiderosie wrote: »

When did I say that you did?

When did I say you said I did

I'm a "Non Dub", if not me who were you talking about?

southsiderosie

mossyc123 wrote: »

Proof?

AFAIK it wasn't until the 1950's that we fell behind Western Europe and stayed there until the 1980's.

The poor economic situation Ireland was in during those 40 or so years was down to a number of factors.

Large workforces on the land as opposed to in factories wasn't ideal, but at least we got a few quid from Agri while Dublin provided what exactly during those years apart from Guinness?!

Dublin was the driver of the last 20 years with the IFSC, etc but there were/are many MNC's outside the Capital aswell.

Yes, piss off Google and Facebook. Let's all return to the magical era where large families, grinding rural poverty, and mass emigration were the norm.

mossyc123

southsiderosie wrote: »

Yes, piss off Google and Facebook. Let's all return to the magical era where large families, grinding rural poverty, and mass emigration were the norm.

Glad you mentioned them.
Live near the EMEA's of those 2 and often wonder why every single employee of them that I meet seems to be from another EU country.
Would be surprised if even a majority of the employees were Irish.
Ultimately that means that the wages and benefits they pay don't all stay in the country. Not ideal.

Then there is the Tax Haven issue.
How much does the exchequer get from them again?

Better then a nothin says you and your right.
They do look nice on the CV of Ireland Inc, but it isn't and won't be the saviour of us.

Developing high quality Agri products, Tourism and indigenous tech exporters will be of more benefit to us in the long run.

As for your hellish description of rural life in Ireland in the past, I think you've been watching too much misery revisionism on RTE.

I come from a large rural family.

Comfortable house, huge garden, nice area... all paid off on a middle management single income over a 20 year mortgage.

God, I hope we never return to that hellish past

Abi

Frowzy wrote: »

I simply stated that I don't want to live there, I find it interesting that people who live in, or think that people should move there

It's an ignorant attitude. At this stage, quite a bit of my family have moved to more rural areas in both Ireland and England, and while there is a commute for them to get to work or the nearest town, they have never been happier. I live barely just inside Dublin in a little village area, and I'd be gone too if my circumstances weren't complicated.

Dubliners taking the attitude that the non-Dub's have to move to Dublin or shut up about it makes my blood boil.




.

southsiderosie

mossyc123 wrote: »

Glad you mentioned them.
Live near the EMEA's of those 2 and often wonder why every single employee of them that I meet seems to be from another EU country.
Would be surprised if even a majority of the employees were Irish.
Ultimately that means that the wages and benefits they pay don't all stay in the country. Not ideal.

Then there is the Tax Haven issue.
How much does the exchequer get from them again?

Better then a nothin says you and your right.
They do look nice on the CV of Ireland Inc, but it isn't and won't be the saviour of us.

Developing high quality Agri products, Tourism and indigenous tech exporters will be of more benefit to us in the long run.

As for your hellish description of rural life in Ireland in the past, I think you've been watching too much misery revisionism on RTE.

I come from a large rural family.

Comfortable house, huge garden, nice area... all paid off on a middle management single income over a 20 year mortgage.

God, I hope we never return to that hellish past

As a non-EU citizen who worked in Ireland, the vast majority of my wages were spent in the country. I paid grossly inflated rent, I bought overpriced groceries, I drank a lot, and I used public transport. And I still had to pay taxes in my home country.

As the great-granddaughter of someone who left rural Ireland, all I can say is that the depopulation of the West speaks for itself.

Ireland lagged far behind the rest of Western Europe (with the possible exception of Portugal) for most of the 20th century. The fact that foreigners would not only want, but would be able to work in Ireland says a lot about how far it has come economically.

DEFTLEFTHAND

bonzos wrote: »

Dont see what the why such a big deal is being made about this programme.....John O'Donoghue had to fly over to Paris on a regular basis on "business" and Mary Harney(and hubby FAS Brian) had to fly to NZ for 17 days in search of work.She also had to fly to the super bowl on business,this has being going on for years. Both these people are now among our countrys 440k+ unemployed:rolleyes:

Don't forget that bloody President of ours using the Government jet for internal flights.

flash1080

I'm working in the UK at the moment, go home most weekends. Totally worth it.

mossyc123

flash1080 wrote: »

I'm working in the UK at the moment, go home most weekends. Totally worth it.

You'll never get a poignant RTE Documentary made about you with that attitude :pac:

Storminateacup

ImARebel wrote: »

and to the girl that is happy to only see her baby for an hour in the evening, take it from a mother that's been there, you can detach yourself and tell yourself you're doing it for her best etc but it's only as she get's older that you realise those first few years are so precious and time you will never get back again. It's only then you will have the regrets that I have.

I am not happy seeing my little girl for an hour a day. It breaks my heart leaving her in the mornings and knowing I'm missing out all day. Ideally, Id spend all day with her. But, it's just not an option.

At the moment - Im working insane hours a day so as I can build a future for all of us. I'm gaining invaluable experience, experience that isn't available to me in my own town. I'm hoping to open my own business working in my own town, in the near future. I simply cannot afford to be a stay at home mother and I would crawl over broken glass for my child, rather than have her grow up on social welfare.

It's not easy and it's heartbreaking feeling like you're missing out, but I have to
do it. I'm a listtle ipset that people think this makes me a bad
mother, but I'm doing what I feel is best for her.

I Want her surrounded by her family - people who love her, and not just tossed into a crèche with someone who has 10 other kids to watch.
I want her to grow up with her cousins, have a safe place to play, and when she gets older, a safer place to be at night time.

It's just not an option to move to Dublin. It's still going to mean I'll be gone at least 11 hours a day. Again, I hope it's short term.

Whispered

Storminateacup, I was born in the mid 80's, my dad would be gone from 6am - 10pm. He did this so we would have food to eat, shoes for school etc. My overriding memory of my dad at a young age was hiding behind the couch on a Saturday when I was 4 years old because I was shy.

I understand he had to do it and I have so much respect for him for doing it. I'm now married and whenever my husband and father go for a drink together my poor Dad tells him how he never saw me as a child and missed me growing up. It's a huge regret and it upsets me terribly. He feels guilty for doing something he had to do.

I don't know what my point is really, I suppose I just wanted to say how much I respect my dad for doing what he did and I'm sure your daughter will feel the same when she's older. I hope your sacrifices are all worth it.

Yahew

filthymcnasty wrote: »

This daft programme had something of an identity crisis: the people featured living abroad are essentially emigrants, not commuters.
Anyone foolish enough to fly back to Ireland each week to play for a hurling team needs their head examined.
The midwife from Cork- well its just too bad theres no maternity hospital in her back yard to work in. People have migrated towards work since time immemorial, sadly its not the other way round.

Man up: our forefathers have been emigrating for generations and were lucky to get back from the UK once a year- those in the US and further afield were lucky to come back at all. Thats not to say our diaspora should only come back once a year, but a bit of perspective is needed here.

The guy flying home every weekend is being entirely rational. His life is no different from a London banker who has a place in the Cotswolds, and travels there every weekend. In fact the journey might be cheaper and take less time. The other cost is housing over there. He may have two mortgages, or one mortgage and pay rent, or his house in Ireland might be paid off ( in which case the cost - bar travel, which is cheap - is no different from someone who has moved indefinitely).

Travelling distances to London from within England is quite common. I travel from a nicer city about 2-3 days a week, which necessitates sleeping there 1-2 times a week, which is hardly killing me. Many londoners take 2 hours to get to work, I walk when I am there since I can choose where to live ( costs can be written off against tax). Plenty of people travel to London from Edinburgh, or Glasgow. Or Newcastle to work a few days a week, nothing different from Dublin.

Thats a bit different from travelling 4 hours a day, right enough. I wouldn't call that sane. However:

The Dubliners on here are anti-commuting when it suits them. Move closer to work, they say. Except, not really. The logic of the anti-commuting position is that you live close to work within Dublin - i.e. always rent, or sell up to move when a job presents itself Except people don't do that, do they? ( Born in Southside, die in the Southside).

And there is a new motorway network. Getting to somewhere on the M50 might be quicker from Thurles, than getting across Dublin. Similarly a fast train from Tipperary might get to work close to Heuston ( or the IFSC) as fast as someone from Blanch on a busy morning. Train to Heuston - Luas to the IFSC.

So why don't Dubliners move within Dublin?

I've only seen a bit of the programme as I'm busy, but I don't get whining about commutes. If you want/need to work in a city, then bloody move there. I'm from the middle of nowhere, my parents still live there. I haven't lived there since I was 18 because there's nothing there for me. I worked in Dublin, abroad and now I work in London. I go home two or three times a year and the rest of the time, I rent a flat here like a normal person. I don't really like London, I'd much prefer to live somewhere quieter, but I'm not prepared to commute from the arse end of nowhere on an overcrowded commuter train. I miss my family, but I'm not prepared to go home every weekend. I just made a new life and found new friends here in London, like most people do. Why would I cling on to my old life?

It seems to me that most of these people, like the guy who went home to play hurling, were making a choice, and not a very logical one at that. Fair enough, horses for courses, but it's ridiculous to whine about it.

NIMAN

For me the guy coming home to play hurling should not have featured in the programme, and probably only got in cos he is the Capt on his county hurling team.

He has a good job in London, and seemed to have no children or girlfriend to miss when he was at work. His only reason for commuting was to play sport. Thats hardly the same as the rest of the folk who were leaving family behind to go to work, seeing children for an hour a day, only at weekends etc.

I felt sorry for most of them, but not him tbh.

I travel 30min each way to my work, I now feel so happy that its so short.

CatFromHue

In my opinion commuting to work is your daily time travelled. If you move to London and travel back on the weekend that's moving abroad for work, not commuting.

I currently have the option of getting the DART to work which takes about 2.40 to 3hrs a day, or driving which takes about 1.50 to 2.10 hours a day.

I long for when I used to cycle to work, about 50mins commute, or when I worked in Shannon which was about 50 mins also commute.

When I get home from work I'm frustrated and tired but I wouldn't be like this when I actually walk out of my work building. It's the sitting in traffic and interacting with my fellow motorists that does this to me.

Ultimately this isn't the life I want to live.

Yahew

Yes, the guy who is working in London is "living abroad" ( in fact he may have to declare tax here). But paying a fare to RyanAir which is cheaper than most English trains tickets to get home, is as sane as leaving london for any other reason on any given weekend.

I didn't see the program. However, his story is clearly not the same as the 4 hour commuters, he commutes on Monday and Friday only.

Yahew

Yahew wrote: »

Yes, the guy who is working in London is "living abroad" ( in fact he may have to declare tax here). But paying a fare to RyanAir which is cheaper than most English trains tickets to get home, is as sane as leaving london for any other reason on any given weekend.

I didn't see the program. However, his story is clearly not the same as the 4 hour commuters, he commutes on Monday and Friday only.

Personally, I think it's incredibly unsettling and I could never do it. I had to fly back to London every 2 weeks (for medical care) when I was living on the continent and it was awful. Missed loads of local parties and social events. It seems silly to insist on 'living' in Ireland while working Mon-Fri in London, but each to their own. Just don't expect any sympathy, IMO.

jam_mac_jam

Storminateacup wrote: »

I am not happy seeing my little girl for an hour a day. It breaks my heart leaving her in the mornings and knowing I'm missing out all day. Ideally, Id spend all day with her. But, it's just not an option.

At the moment - Im working insane hours a day so as I can build a future for all of us. I'm gaining invaluable experience, experience that isn't available to me in my own town. I'm hoping to open my own business working in my own town, in the near future. I simply cannot afford to be a stay at home mother and I would crawl over broken glass for my child, rather than have her grow up on social welfare.

It's not easy and it's heartbreaking feeling like you're missing out, but I have to
do it. I'm a listtle ipset that people think this makes me a bad
mother, but I'm doing what I feel is best for her.

I Want her surrounded by her family - people who love her, and not just tossed into a crèche with someone who has 10 other kids to watch.
I want her to grow up with her cousins, have a safe place to play, and when she gets older, a safer place to be at night time.

It's just not an option to move to Dublin. It's still going to mean I'll be gone at least 11 hours a day. Again, I hope it's short term.

It doesnt make you a bad mother at all, you shouldnt have to justify yourself in your choices. I think your mad doing it but it doesnt matter what I think and you are obviously doing it out of love not for fancy cars/ holidays etc. If you stayed home and didnt have a job you would be judged also, you are never right if you are a mum! Somebody else knows best. At the same time though lots of people do leave their kids in creches, doesnt make them bad mums either. A lot of kids are happy there.

Old_-_School

Old_-_School wrote: »

One aspect of commuting I never could understand is the spending the Sunday night at home and driving up on Monday morning even though it takes an hour and a half longer. I'm not talking about spending it with the missus or the kids, I'm talking about spending it at home with the folks and a sibling or two. How anyone could prefer that than to travel up Sunday evening/night and be well rested Monday morning rather than spend the day yawning is beyond me. Now, if it was the playboy mansion I'd say go for it alright!

More often than not I drive back on the monday monring. I like to get the extra night at home, it makes the trip that bit more worth while getting 3 nights out of it. Its also nice to sit around with the family especially as I would usually be out on the saturday night. Also if I'm wrecked tired from sat night I dont like driving.

It takes me almost the exact same amount of time to drive galway to cork on the monday morning as the sunday evening too. I also dont have to leave that early usually around 7am has me down at an acceptable time to appear in work.

LaFlammeRouge

Storminateacup wrote: »

I am not happy seeing my little girl for an hour a day. It breaks my heart leaving her in the mornings and knowing I'm missing out all day. Ideally, Id spend all day with her. But, it's just not an option.


I Want her surrounded by her family - people who love her, and not just tossed into a crèche with someone who has 10 other kids to watch.
I want her to grow up with her cousins, have a safe place to play, and when she gets older, a safer place to be at night time.

It's just not an option to move to Dublin. It's still going to mean I'll be gone at least 11 hours a day. Again, I hope it's short term.

You are her family. Move closer to your job ffs. Rent your own house if you have to.

Hotblack Desiato

Frowzy wrote: »

Oh! excusez moi! perhaps you could explain what a bog-warrior is then?
I was assuming he was classifying non-Dublin residents........

That comment came about because of the exasperating Donegal woman. Build a house literally in the middle of nowhere, then complain about how far away it is from everything. You really couldn't make it up. Bonus points for the very niche career choice.
Of course not everyone would choose to live in a city, just as not everyone would choose to live in a rural area, but the point is to accept the consequences of the choices you make and not expect to have your cake and eat it too.

syklops

Abi, your posts generally are well thought out, and sensible, and I have thanked more than a few of them, so It sadden me that his rift has occurred in this thread. A thread I am strongly considering unsubscribing from because it has gone beyond daft.

Abi wrote:

well it came from ignorant posts like this, if you must know.

syklops wrote:

Why cant you move to Dublin?
.

I fail to see what is so ignorant about asking a poster who commutes 4 hours a day to and from Dublin why it would not be feasible for her and her partner to move closer to her place of work.

Maybe our brains work differently but for me, comfort is me and my partner living in the nicest place possible equidistant from our place of work, our favourite supermarket and out favourite restaurant or pub. When my Son or Daughter arrives, that will also include the best school in the area.

Having your place of work on the other side of the country is alien to me. Any job I ever got, even one in Central Europe I moved to within 30 mins commute of it. Partly because I have little natural talent and so need extra hours to study and learn. I also make friends slower than most people, so need a little extra time acquiring them and so moving as close as possible to my place of work seems obvious to me for both saving time and increasing comfort levels.

I was once in a position where I was living in one part of Dublin, and my place of work was nearly 2 hours of public transport away. I happily went from very low rent to quite high rent for a smaller place, because an extra hour there and back over the course of a month was way more valuable to me than the money for rent.

I know people will say, "but its different when you have kids", I don't see why it should. I would not move into an area where my Fiancée was not safe or was uncomfortable, and by extension would not let my child live in such a place.

Their safety is number one, and if sunday dinner is beans on toast in a safe place then, bloody brilliant!, so long as we are together and can form some kind of happiness, to me that is all that matters.

Yahew

LaFlammeRouge wrote: »

You are her family. Move closer to your job ffs. Rent your own house if you have to.

By family she means extended family. Theres nothing wrong with that. She wants her child to grow up around cousins. I really don't get Dubliner anger here. It's peoples choice.

Abi

syklops wrote: »

It sadden me that his rift has occurred in this thread.

Rift or a debate though syklops? There isn't supposed to be a winner or solution here, because everyone is different, and they will ultimately do what they think is best anyway. Thanks for what you said about my posts, but I will say that not everyone will agree on everything. It would make for a pretty boring world if it did.

I fail to see what is so ignorant about asking a poster who commutes 4 hours a day to and from Dublin why it would not be feasible for her and her partner to move closer to her place of work.

Right, well my gripe with this is how easily it is said, by people that don't seem to understand that it's not that simple. It's fine and well for a single person to up sticks and hit Dublin, but if you're talking about uprooting an entire family - well "just move" is easier said than done. I refer back to the point that people are finding it difficult to sell their homes, and I'd imagine more so in rural areas. Then you're talking about uprooting children from their schools, which can be a big upset for them, and perhaps their school work. You may be also taking them away from their relatives that may live near by.

I have no idea why some can't see that it's not just as cut and dry as "just move" for some.

Maybe our brains work differently but for me, comfort is me and my partner living in the nicest place possible equidistant from our place of work, our favourite supermarket and out favourite restaurant or pub. When my Son or Daughter arrives, that will also include the best school in the area.

Do I take it that you have a child on the way, given the above sentence? Every parent wants their child in the best school, and for them to be content and make friends there. I have to ask though, would you have any hesitation uprooting your son or daughter from their school and friends?

Having your place of work on the other side of the country is alien to me. Any job I ever got, even one in Central Europe I moved to within 30 mins commute of it.

Had you been renting all along, and were there any children involved in the moves at the time?

I know people will say, "but its different when you have kids", I don't see why it should. I would not move into an area where my Fiancée was not safe or was uncomfortable, and by extension would not let my child live in such a place.

It is I'm afraid. No parent would just move without some hesitation, and how it may effect their children. It's difficult for any child to have to leave their friends and have to make new ones - and trying to keep on top of school work at the same time. I know it is done, but it would be something I would avoid at all costs.


In conclusion to all of this; I will say that relocating is easier said than done for a lot of people. I just find the 'just move' attitude short-sighted. It's fine and well if you're on your own, but if you've a mortgage on a house you can't sell and children in schools - well a lot more thinking has to go into it.

Noffles

I have:

a mortgage

House in rural area

Son in school

Long commute

I CANT WAIT until my son leaves school so I can use the money that my wife and I waste on fuel and travel to rent an apartment in LOVELY Dublin and start to enjoy life again... 2 years and we're in the land of the living again.. keep the p[lace in the ****hole of the sticks and rent in Dublin... oh the joys of that day!!