Ruger scout

Hibrion

I'm just putting this out there for a pros and cons discussion:

http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/models.html

What do you all think of it?

Do you think it has a place as a hunting rifle or is it something aimed at the US market?


It could make a nice brush gun but I would be worried about the impact of such a short barrel: 16.5 inches.

Has anybody seen or fired one?

Cass

Seems a nice gun. .308, bolt action so unrestricted. The barrel length would be cause for concern though. Most ammo suited to 24" barrel and would work in a barrel down to 20", but another 4 inches shorter again could give you problems with slower speeds, less stability, and possibly opened groups.

Now while a hunter need not concern him/herself with groups it gives a good indicator as to accuracy for 100, 200, and 300 yards. I will not start up the whole barrel length debate because it will only derail a possibly good thread. The length though would provide a nice compact rifle for moving through growth and woodland.

So for me:


Pros

• Compact
• Light
• Good caliber
• Unrestricted

Cons

• Bullet issues due to barrel length
• Possible issues with a license, but not really a major issue
• Due to small size, lightness it could be "kicky"

Sparks

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=74802551
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=71205775

bazza888

the european model has a 18.5inch barrel it was in an article in shooting sports magazine in october issue,it wont have the open sights on it either.the us version is 16.5inch barrel

Hibrion

Have you ay source for that, Bazza?

It seems to me that removing the irons would make this rifle significantly less appealing.

gunhappy_ie

I like:

The concept.
Short barrel.
Picatinny rail.
Availibility in left hand.
Iron sights.
Drilled for scope rings.
Threaded barrel.


I dont like:

Flash hider (its as usefull on a civilian firearm as a €o€k flavoured lollypop).
Stock colour (but its easy to respray)
10 round mags, thankfully 5 rounders are available.


If the euro model came without Irons it would put me off buying it.

As far as accuracy goes, I shoot 1 1/2-2" groups @ 100 meters with a 18.5 inch barrel. Bearing in mind that its a 30+ year old semi auto with incorrect headspace so I think this modern bolt action will do just fine

GH

Hibrion

I can see the accuracy being quite good if there was an 18.5 inch version.

But you're dead right, gun happy, the lack of iron sights really takes from the scout rifle mentality.

A double stack 10 round mag would be a nice addition.

It would be a good driven game gun for those of us who have trouble getting a semi and aren't into lever actions.

Left handed versions are always good!

Just a thought, but how much would you need to spend to make a rifle like this on say a remington action?

gunhappy_ie

Hibrion wrote: »

But you're dead right, gun happy, the lack of iron sights really takes from the scout rifle mentality.

A double stack 10 round mag would be a nice addition.

Just a thought, but how much would you need to spend to make a rifle like this on say a remington action?

Not even from a the way it looks, but I love using Irons

Im unsure id the mags are single or double stack. If they are the same size (ie both the same size as a 10) then plugged it I would think it would be annoying as it would be to big hang to low to the ground for my liking.

If you had a remmy with a 1:10 medium contour barrel it would be a matter of cutting it down (rather having a RFD do it). I dont know how youd mount the forward picatinny rail, perhaps silver solder it on after contouring the underside of the rail to match the barrel/reciever ?

Cost.... its like asking how deep is a hole :P

GH

gunhappy_ie

Also... look at the height of the front sight... with a threaded barrel, its just crying to be suppressed !

Look how a suppressor tames muzzle jump and recoil and of course looks cool too :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUy4n2sWdtc&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5XV7NYAG2Y


GH

Hibrion

I doubt you would do it for the price of the ruger anyway. Every detachable mag system for the remingtons seem to be seriously overpriced.

The mags are single stack and you can get qn optional 5 round mag which is much shorter.

Hibrion

What sort of mod would you put on it?

gunhappy_ie

Hibrion wrote: »

What sort of mod would you put on it?

Id say it would be easier and cheaper just to buy the Ruger

Suppressor wise, Id have to look around, but something that its OD didnt block the view/use of the Irons.

If they had it, id go with a Brugger and Thomet.

GH

Hibrion

Your youtube links don't seem to be working, GH

gunhappy_ie

Hibrion wrote: »

Your youtube links don't seem to be working, GH

I clicked the youtube button and inserted the link in .... after that im lost so if mods dont mind editing please

GH

Hibrion

Here's an interesting forum dedicated to scout rifles for those that might be interested in the concept:

http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?board=9.0

ormondprop

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5XV7NYAG2Y

heres one of your videos gunhappy i can't figure out what your other video is as some of the info is missing
when embedding videos you click the youtube button and the only info you want to paste between the youtube brackets is the video code, which in this case is
T5XV7NYAG2Y

gunhappy_ie

ormondprop wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5XV7NYAG2Y

heres one of your videos gunhappy i can't figure out what your other video is as some of the info is missing
when embedding videos you click the youtube button and the only info you want to paste between the youtube brackets is the video code, which in this case is
T5XV7NYAG2Y

Ya kearn something new everyday

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUy4n2sWdtc

Grizzly 45

Hibrion wrote: »

I can see the accuracy being quite good if there was an 18.5 inch version.

But you're dead right, gun happy, the lack of iron sights really takes from the scout rifle mentality.

Dont forget that Col Cooper who came up with this idea of this rifle,didnt concive it as a std iron site bolt action.This is where the whole concept of the long eye relif scope comes into play. Supposedly more accurate than iron sights and easier to use on running shots.Like it or hate it,there is no inbetween ..Do modern sniper rifles come with iron sights anymore too.??

A double stack 10 round mag would be a nice addition.

Always..

Left handed versions are always good

!
Nice to know it is an option!:D

Just a thought, but how much would you need to spend to make a rifle like this on say a remington action?

Too much...I suppose you could build your own "scout" rifle as a concept gun .However for it to classify as a true scout concept ala Col Jeff Cooper it must be.

Of a medium MINIMUM 30 caliber and nothing below it.
Be bolt action for accruacy.
Have a long eye relif scope of low to medium power.
Have various sling points,have a quick change high capacity magazine.
Cant remember what the minimum accruacy was supposed to be.

I'm sure google or others can give you the full workdown on it.

bazza888

the source is the article in shooting sports magazine i metioned they are making it without the irons and flashider for european market,if i get a chance ill scan the article in tomorrow.

gunhappy_ie

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Do modern sniper rifles come with iron sights anymore too.??
.

Is the AI series of rifle new enough for ya :P

Off the top of my head: HK PSG-1/MSG-90, Steyr SSG 69, Parker Hale M82... Of course any miliary bolt action that had a sniper varient generally kept the open sights, eg K98, .303 enfields, mosin nagants.

bazza888 wrote: »

the source is the article in shooting sports magazine i metioned they are making it without the irons and flashider for european market,if i get a chance ill scan the article in tomorrow.

Completely turned off now by the longer barrel lack of iron sights and Ill assume that the barrel isnt threaded at all.

If the american version could be gotten it would be great to see how well it would do as a hunting rifle out to 200 meters. Obviously get rid of the useless flashhider and put on a decent muzzle brake.

GH

bazza888

ilike the american version of it aswell,looks good and i love the idea of shooting with the iron sights.has anyone got a copy of the magazine i mentioned?just have a flick through it read the article and maybe stick it up here if you can scan it as i cant do it at the moment,and im going off memory as to what exactly was said in the article.

Grizzly 45

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Is the AI series of rifle new enough for ya :P

Very much so.Logically any rifle should have backup sights[Said he still missing iron sights for his R25:o] It just seems to be in the modern world of every concieveable scope and latest gizmo,the iron sight is considerd a "well if you really must use these you are in a world of hurt.so dont go there!"

Off the top of my head: HK PSG-1/MSG-90, Steyr SSG 69, Parker Hale M82... Of course any miliary bolt action that had a sniper varient generally kept the open sights, eg K98, .303 enfields, mosin nagants.

Dont think the US sniper systems post ww2 have any??IE Winchester model 64 and the current Remington Msomthingorother:D

Completely turned off now by the longer barrel lack of iron sights and Ill assume that the barrel isnt threaded at all.

If the american version could be gotten it would be great to see how well it would do as a hunting rifle out to 200 meters. Obviously get rid of the useless flashhider and put on a decent muzzle brake.

Last time I saw the article on these,they were already threaded ipso facto by the flash hider???

bazza888

iwas watching a sniper programme on discover it said all the m40s have rough battle sights incase the scope breaks,but the only time iv seen them on an m40 was on that programme unless they are removable

Hibrion

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Dont forget that Col Cooper who came up with this idea of this rifle,didnt concive it as a std iron site bolt action.This is where the whole concept of the long eye relif scope comes into play. Supposedly more accurate than iron sights and easier to use on running shots.Like it or hate it,there is no inbetween ..Do modern sniper rifles come with iron sights anymore too.??

I know absolutely nothing about LER scopes. Any opinions on which would be the best to go for?

juice1304

I have'nt had a go of one yet but this is what i'm ordering for my winchester 1894 [ it's in a scout configuration]
http://gunwriter.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/leupold-making-scout-rifles-better/

Hibrion

Is the 1894 a 30/30? If so where do you source your ammo and have you ever been able to get lever evolution ammo?

Also, how much did the Leupold set you back, if you don't mind me asking?

juice1304

i am only applying for the licence atm, the scope is about 400 dollars.
ye it's a 30/30

Witcher

Hickok45 takes a look at it here:

Hibrion

Saw this on Guntrader UK today:

http://www.guntrader.co.uk/GunsForSale/110917125125178

bazza888

you thinking of buying one hibrion?looks cool,you can get new mags aswell in the us now in 3,5,10,round they look better than that box mag!

Hibrion

I saw those mags on the Ruger website alright. They look good and are reasonably priced.

To be honest, I would actually like one of these now. They seem to be a really good all round rifle. The accuracy, even out of the 16 inch barrel, seems to be very good. Unfortunately i've only just bought a classic Winchester 1894 and a Beretta 87 T so I am really skint!

Although I can see one of these in the safe in the distant future

john_aero

anyone got anything else since? also is it only stainless barrell for EU market? pitty i rather the black barrell

gunhappy_ie

john_aero wrote: »

anyone got anything else since? also is it only stainless barrell for EU market? pitty i rather the black barrell

You could either have the barrel refinished or import a gun from the US that would be US spec.

GH

john_aero

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

You could either have the barrel refinished or import a gun from the US that would be US spec.

GH

but i take it the 16.4in barrell is too short though for here?

Sparks

john_aero wrote: »

but i take it the 16.4in barrell is too short though for here?

Nobody knows for sure. You'd probably have to have a test case in the High Court to settle the question.

gunhappy_ie

john_aero wrote: »

but i take it the 16.4in barrell is too short though for here?

This will open a can of worms......

legally what defines a long arm (rifle/shotgun) over a short arm (pistol) is a firearm with a barrel over 30 cm (11.8") and an over all length of over 60cm including any detachable components.

Short answer yes you can have is so long as the barrel is above those specs.


GH

in reply to sparks,

Theres no need for the Highcourt. If you get a licence for said firearm then take it. Ive been licenced several long arms with barrels generally from 16-18 inches over the years.

GH

Sparks

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Short answer yes you can have is so long as the barrel is above those specs.

That's only half the problem gunhappy. That's the "is it a long or a short firearm", which becomes a problem if the rifle itself would be restricted because of something else (eg. calibre or action).

The real issue is the barrel length - it's not legal in Ireland to shorten a barrel below 50cm on a rifle (60cm on a shotgun) unless you're an RFD who's fixing that barrel (and even then, you're required to immediately build it back up above the 50cm limit). For the Scout, which comes from the factory at 40-odd cm, that's not an issue because you're not shortening it; but you do run into the second half of the section dealing with barrel length which says that it's not legal to possess a rifle with a barrel under 50cm "without good reason or lawful authority".

Here's the problem. Say you apply for a licence for a restricted rifle from your local Garda Superintendent, and he issues it, and you go out into the fields with it to hunt. You'd be in possession of an unlicenced firearm because that licence came from a Super who's not legally authorised to issue a restricted firearms licence (it has to be a Chief Super). But the onus was on you to ensure you applied to the right person for the right kind of licence, so you get in trouble, not the Garda.

In other words, that piece of paper put into your hand by a Garda saying you're licenced to possess that firearm, cannot overrule the Firearms Act.

And so the problem is that nobody knows whether or not your firearms cert constitutes "lawful authority". Just because you have one that says you can have your sub-50cm-barrel rifle does not mean that that rifle is now licenced. And since the question is what a specific phrase in an Act means, this is always going to be an undefined area no matter what anyone says, until the issue gets settled in a courtroom somewhere, or the Oireachtas passes a new Act that defines the term.

So yeah, can of worms

Hibrion

The 18.5 inch version should be fine. Ruger 10/22s have an 18.5 inch barrel as standard.

I put a link above to the export version for sale on guntrader.co.uk. It's quite pricey, all things considered.

I also sent off an email a few weeks ago to Ruger asking for availability of this firearm in Ireland and the full specs (as they aren't given on the website). I have to date received no reply, despite the fact that Ruger claim to answer all queries in 3 working days.

Sparks

Hibrion wrote: »

The 18.5 inch version should be fine. Ruger 10/22s have an 18.5 inch barrel as standard.

18.5 inches = 47cm
So you're still in the gray area.
Meaning all the 10/22 owners out there with standard barrels are in that gray area.
So you see why I think it's a can of worms...

Hibrion

Sparks wrote: »

18.5 inches = 47cm
So you're still in the gray area.
Meaning all the 10/22 owners out there with standard barrels are in that gray area.
So you see why I think it's a can of worms...

I know what you mean, but my way of looking at it is: nobody has opened that can of worms yet so why should we put ourselves through that hassle. I have a 10/22 so the 18.5 inch barrel would not put me off the scout.
If it comes down to it there are ways of extending barrel length without actually extending the barrel. I remember seeing a cage type thing that the mod went inside on the end of a barrel before. This might be an option.

Don't forget, there are also plenty of custom 10/22s out there with far shorter barrels than 18.5 inches.

Sparks

Hibrion wrote: »

I know what you mean, but my way of looking at it is: nobody has opened that can of worms yet so why should we put ourselves through that hassle.

Because who the hell wants to be the first poor sod through the grinder on that?

I have a 10/22 so the 18.5 inch barrel would not put me off the scout.
If it comes down to it there are ways of extending barrel length without actually extending the barrel. I remember seeing a cage type thing that the mod went inside on the end of a barrel before. This might be an option.

Might be, but where in the act does it say how you measure the barrel length? They might well not take the length of the mod as part of the length of the barrel...

Don't forget, there are also plenty of custom 10/22s out there with far shorter barrels than 18.5 inches.

Yeah.
You know the can of worms I mentioned? Well those are a pallet-load of worms...

Hibrion

Sparks wrote: »

Might be, but where in the act does it say how you measure the barrel length? They might well not take the length of the mod as part of the length of the barrel...

I think this is our saving grace here. Because no one has specified this, if it did go to a court case you could argue that you measured the barrel from X point to Y quite well. Of course we can't guess at the outcome of such a case, but I think it would be a valid argument. The fact that the rifle was processed through an RFD and the licensing system could only play in your favour.

All theoretical of course, but there are many ways to find 3 extra centimeters on a 47cm barrel

Sparks

Hibrion wrote: »

I think this is our saving grace here. Because no one has specified this, if it did go to a court case you could argue that you measured the barrel from X point to Y quite well.

Well, yes...
...except that there's specific provision for replacement barrels now, and those get shipped as a seperate part from the manufacturer. If measured in that state, would it be over the 50cm limit and would that be the opposing argument?

Of course we can't guess at the outcome of such a case, but I think it would be a valid argument.

It certainly would, but that doesn't mean it'd win the case
I really wouldn't bet anything on the outcome of a case like that, and worse yet, if it wasn't taken deliberately, it might wind up being a particularly weak case but it would still set precedent.
Unpleasantly risky, IMHO.

john_aero

maybe i should have kept my mouth ****.

i do know one dealer has ordered this rifle for customer but delay as its in huge demand.

as for short barrell its hard see why they are worried about such a small change in size but hey its ireland.

i am still tryng find why such big change from EU to USA model

Hibrion

john_aero wrote: »

i do know one dealer has ordered this rifle for customer but delay as its in huge demand.

Can you tell us which RFD it was, John?

john_aero

Hibrion wrote: »

Can you tell us which RFD it was, John?

Lad in wexford that i was told ring. i have his name number in work but forgto ti

Hibrion

Wexford town or county?

john_aero

Hibrion wrote: »

Wexford town or county?

John Lambert

Hibrion

I might be in with John tomorrow. I must have a chat with him about the scout.

john_aero

would you look at the tikka as well if woulnd mind?he has a 2nd hand one cheap

Hibrion

john_aero wrote: »

would you look at the tikka as well if woulnd mind?he has a 2nd hand one cheap

He has a good selection there alright. I'd trust John. There is no BS. He will tell you everything straight.

What type and cal are you looking at?