Ireland u20 6 Nations & World Cup 2012

Tigerandahalf

How did the other 2 u20 games go tonight. I can't find results on any site not even the official 6 nations site.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

How did the other 2 u20 games go tonight. I can't find results on any site not even the official 6 nations site.

France Italy posponed
http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/match/scores/recent.html

phog

Who was Ireland's lineout caller? I think we kept trying for the long lineout when we didn't seem to be able to win one. Wales had simialr problems.

CIARAN_BOYLE

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

France Italy posponed
http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/match/scores/recent.html

Scotland Under-20s 3 - 59 England Under-20s

molloyjh

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

France Italy posponed
http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/match/scores/recent.html

Scotland Under-20s 3 - 59 England Under-20s

Well that put the A game result into context...

CiaranMT

molloyjh wrote: »

Well that put the A game result into context...

Not really. England are always much more physically developed at this level, and with greater ability probably made every last chance count.

porterbelly

Looking forward to a homegrown Connacht back 3 of Duffy, O Halloran and Leyden next season or even maybe before the season is out. Will be great to see in action

liam12989

gym rats are the english teams full of south seas natives or hertigate or dark skined lads whose development is quikcer then normal west european lads

its_phil

porterbelly wrote: »

Looking forward to a homegrown Connacht back 3 of Duffy, O Halloran and Leyden next season or even maybe before the season is out. Will be great to see in action

Roscrea back 3

profitius

liam12989 wrote: »

gym rats are the english teams full of south seas natives or hertigate or dark skined lads whose development is quikcer then normal west european lads

Indeed. Its like boys against men so the result has to be taken lightly.

porterbelly wrote: »

Looking forward to a homegrown Connacht back 3 of Duffy, O Halloran and Leyden next season or even maybe before the season is out. Will be great to see in action

Plus Griffin in the backs. Any more bright prospects out west, porterbelly?

porterbelly

profitius wrote: »

Indeed. Its like boys against men so the result has to be taken lightly.



Plus Griffin in the backs. Any more bright prospects out west, porterbelly?

Conneely and Qualter did well tonight, Conneely should make the breakthrough next season as well.

The likes of Conor Finn and Calum Boland can feel hard done by after not being included tonight, good young wingers and certainly worthy of a place imo.

its_phil

porterbelly wrote: »

Conneely and Qualter did well tonight, Conneely should make the breakthrough next season as well.

The likes of Conor Finn and Calum Boland can feel hard done by after not being included tonight, good young wingers and certainly worthy of a place imo.

Well Sam Coughlan-Murray is one of the most exciting players in the country so I'd be keeping him there, but I'm sure Finn or Boland will come in for Daly at some stage

shuffol

What about Jack Carty, has he much of a chance, be good to see Connacht develop a home grown fly half, do wonders for the stability of the side.

bilston

Not a great game but U20 games usually aren't.

Henderson, Gilsenan and Leyden were the standout players for me.

Jackson had a good game apart from goalkicking, JJ was good too with a nice break and some good passing.

From limisted viewing I'd have thought McGrath and Farrell would warrant selection over Marmion and Horan, they didn't do too badly but the other two seem a cut above to me. McGrath is the next big thing and it's only five weeks since Farrell went toe to toe with tomorrows starting Irish midfield and did pretty well!

boynesider

bilston wrote: »

Not a great game but U20 games usually aren't.

Henderson, Gilsenan and Leyden were the standout players for me.

Jackson had a good game apart from goalkicking, JJ was good too with a nice break and some good passing.

From limisted viewing I'd have thought McGrath and Farrell would warrant selection over Marmion and Horan, they didn't do too badly but the other two seem a cut above to me. McGrath is the next big thing and it's only five weeks since Farrell went toe to toe with tomorrows starting Irish midfield and did pretty well!

Agree with this. Farrell didn't give D'Arcy an inch in that game and Leinster were dominant for most of it. Selecting Horan seemed very strange to me. Don't like discussing politics in rugby but was there a Lansdowne bias at play here?

vinny chase

I thought this was an enjoyable game last night, despite the relatively poor rugby at times and low scoring. Ireland were unlucky not to get more points on the board, but always looked the superior side.

Couple of really stand out performers for me; both second rows Qualter and Henderson did really well, with Henderson in particular standing out with his work and athleticism.

Great balance to the backrow with all three contributing lots of work in the loose and on the floor, and some big carries from Conan from the base. Really impressed by Gilsenan, who I thought was Ireland's best forward.

Marmion showed some nice touches, and definitely has a good break on him, but Luke McGrath showed his class when introduced and added so much pace and structure to the Irish attack. Touch of class for the DG as well.

Paddy Jackson is a lovely player, great balance and distributes really well. He does not appear to have the ability to be a frontline goalkicker at this stage in his development though. Conditions were poor, but far from dreadful, and in particular that missed kick in the second half shortly before his drop goal was an inexcusable miss at this level.

I thought JJ Hanrahan was absolutely excellent. First real time to get a good look at him, having heard a lot from some of my Munster friends, and was really impressed. Lovely distribution, eye for a gap, good kicker when called upon. Created the try by having the vision to spot the second row in the line ahead of him and the pace and hands to execute.

Foster Horan was pretty anonymous, but it wasn't really a night for outside backs so I'll reserve judgement.

Sam Coghlan-Murray didn't get much of a chance to showcase his talent on the night, but remains a bright prospect. Barry Daly was hungry for work in defense.

Shane Layden was the standout performer though, and deservedly man of the match for me. Just always seems to have that bit of extra time on the ball that truly class players have. Took his try well, and kicked excellently throughout. Telling that after Ireland fell behind, he immediately wanted the ball and got us back on the offensive.

Encouraging stuff in terms of player development, but doubtful there's enough there to take down the English.

bamboozle

thought the back row and Henderson were excellent, Conan was a huge physical presence, Gilsenan got through a lot of work, Connelly (and the welsh 7) were everywhere.
Henderson's carrying was a big feature of the game.
Marimon takes a step or two too many at 9, Luke McGrath made a huge impact, first time i've seen him, he looks quality. Leyden, Hanrahan, Jackson & Coughlan Murray looked good, Daly grew into the game.

irishbucsfan

Dan Thomas seems to have lived up to his hype. Did I hear he's still only 18?

Good to hear Hanrahan impressed. He could be very important for Munster in the next few years. Very pleased with him staying at 12 as well, Irish rugby needs options like that.

Not surprised that gilsenan or conneely did well tbh, both great talents.

porterbelly

boynesider wrote: »

Agree with this. Farrell didn't give D'Arcy an inch in that game and Leinster were dominant for most of it. Selecting Horan seemed very strange to me. Don't like discussing politics in rugby but was there a Lansdowne bias at play here?

Connacht won the grand slam interpros, hammering Munster and beating Ulster and Leinster as well. Connacht also won the grand slam in this age group at u18 level.

In the squad last night there was 4 Connacht players and 12 Leinster players. That just isn't fair really.

its_phil

boynesider wrote: »

Agree with this. Farrell didn't give D'Arcy an inch in that game and Leinster were dominant for most of it. Selecting Horan seemed very strange to me. Don't like discussing politics in rugby but was there a Lansdowne bias at play here?

Lansdowne reached the U21 all ireland final last year so there is a lot of quality there. Plus there was only 3 Lansdowne players, hardly a majority considering they are a quality u20 side.

bilston

porterbelly wrote: »

boynesider wrote: »

Agree with this. Farrell didn't give D'Arcy an inch in that game and Leinster were dominant for most of it. Selecting Horan seemed very strange to me. Don't like discussing politics in rugby but was there a Lansdowne bias at play here?

Connacht won the grand slam interpros, hammering Munster and beating Ulster and Leinster as well. Connacht also won the grand slam in this age group at u18 level.

In the squad last night there was 4 Connacht players and 12 Leinster players. That just isn't fair really.

Bit of a strange one alright. In saying that Ulster usually don't play guys who played in the previous season's Ireland's U20s (only Jackson and Henderson this year). Do the other provinces do that too?

Despite I'd have thought there would have been a few more Connacht players involved.

profitius

its_phil wrote: »

Lansdowne reached the U21 all ireland final last year so there is a lot of quality there. Plus there was only 3 Lansdowne players, hardly a majority considering they are a quality u20 side.

3 is 1 less than Connacht and Ulsters numbers and the same as the Munster total!

vinny chase

There is no point in just whinging about the numbers involved, or arguing just for arguments sake that certain provinces should have larger or less numbers.

Cite specific examples of which players should be selected, and who should lose out; otherwise it just comes across as simple provincial nonsense.

I'd argue one of either Conor Finn or Callum Boland could have made the side ahead of Barry Daly. Jack Carty has looked good whenever I've seen him; but he's really competing with Cathal Marsh (an equally excellent prospect) for a bench spot since Paddy Jackson is captaining the side from ten.

Don't know enough about the Connacht front row players, but the scrum was good yesterday. Qualter is already there in the second row, and Henderson alongside him was excellent. Conneely was good in the backrow, and I'd argue the other two guys seem more than worthy of their place as they were both immense last night.

irishbucsfan

I don't think it follows that just because Connacht U20s were the better team that they have the better players.

boynesider

Honestly don't think there is a bias against Connacht players. You could easily argue that Marmion was lucky to start over McGrath last night. And don't forget there are plenty more games and I am certain that the likes of Finn, Boland, and Leader will get their chance. I haven't seen any of them play but have heard nothing but good things about them.

porterbelly

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't think it follows that just because Connacht U20s were the better team that they have the better players.

I know you can't judge completely by it, but 12 Leinster to 4 Connacht is crazy since Connacht have proved they are the best at this age group over the last 3 years. That would indicate they have better players. Connacht I was told by 3 different people, battered Leinster in the 20s game in Dublin this year, only the scoreline didn't reflect it.

Carty, Boland and Finn have been regulars for a good Buccaneers side for the past 2 seasons, ditto Tadgh Leader in Galwegians. They are very good players.

There's always hype stemming out of the Leinster schools cup and young players from Leinster being built up at an early age in the media and this seems to have translated into the 20's team. I dare say the blazers in Dublin would like to see a higher representation of Connacht players over Leinster.

I'd imagine the likes of Nigel Carolan in Connacht are fuming at the selection for the 20's this year. Very, very disappointing from a Connacht perspective.

profitius

Theres always bias there in selecting teams. No doubt about it. From the school yard where players will pick their friends first to international level where the coach picks the players he knows best. Its bias but not intentional.

The Irish U20 selectors are picking players and know Leinster is the best set up in the country so maybe for any 50/50 decisions they'll pick Leinster players. Its harsh on the players to miss out but understandable in a way. They only have a certain amount of time to judge.

I think I saw the Connacht back Finn play for Roscrea last year if I'm not mistaken?? He looked a decent player!

One final thing is that U20 rugby is not essential for a players career. Its nice to have but not everything. Remember Jeremy Staunton was picked ahead of ROG at this level and you could name countless players who missed out and came good.

Amazotheamazing

porterbelly wrote: »

I know you can't judge completely by it, but 12 Leinster to 4 Connacht is crazy since Connacht have proved they are the best at this age group over the last 3 years. That would indicate they have better players. Connacht I was told by 3 different people, battered Leinster in the 20s game in Dublin this year, only the scoreline didn't reflect it.

Ah come on, unless you've seen the players yourself you really shouldn't comment.

shuffol

Leinster with their greater player base and most professional set up are generally always going to have the lions share of players, the fact that Connacht has a smaller base of players to choose from could help them build better teams at underage level, same guys are used to playing with each other all the way up the age levels, for example how many Buccanneers players were in that interpro winning side?

cityman 18

porterbelly wrote: »

I know you can't judge completely by it, but 12 Leinster to 4 Connacht is crazy since Connacht have proved they are the best at this age group over the last 3 years. That would indicate they have better players. Connacht I was told by 3 different people, battered Leinster in the 20s game in Dublin this year, only the scoreline didn't reflect it.

Carty, Boland and Finn have been regulars for a good Buccaneers side for the past 2 seasons, ditto Tadgh Leader in Galwegians. They are very good players.

There's always hype stemming out of the Leinster schools cup and young players from Leinster being built up at an early age in the media and this seems to have translated into the 20's team. I dare say the blazers in Dublin would like to see a higher representation of Connacht players over Leinster.

I'd imagine the likes of Nigel Carolan in Connacht are fuming at the selection for the 20's this year. Very, very disappointing from a Connacht perspective.

Couldn't agree more Poterbelly, as long as ireland keep on winning it won't be a huge issue. But it does seem a bit odd though that a leinster team beaten well by connacht have 12 guys to Connacht's 4 now playing for Ireland.