Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

#15

A lot of people making a late surge for the most biased poster of the year award.
I never knew people took the SF awards so seriously.

Pro. F

Blatter wrote: »

@Pro F

I wouldn't be so quick to think that The Telegraph article is mostly nonsense. Henry Winter is the author and he would be one of the more reputable journalists around, who I can't really see risking his reputation by printing this stuff unless he was fairly sure about it. Daniel Taylor(another renowned journalist) also gave Winter a virtual pat on the back for getting the info.

Obviously we won't know if it is or not until the facts are confirmed, but it's quite likely a lot of the content in that article is correct.

If it's true that Evra said that to the ref then he is a lunatic. The only thing I can think of is he might have been arguing along the lines of ''the only reason I was fighting with Suarez is because he was racially abusing me, and now you are booking me for it.'' But even if he meant that, he is an eejit for saying it the way he allegedly did.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Thankfully they were speaking in Spanish.

Referring to someone's race when you are having an argument is no more acceptable, no matter what the language is. Bringing race into an argument unnecessarily is racist, the language of the argument is irrelevant.

parker kent

CSF wrote: »

'what does Fuhrer from boards.ie think is the acceptable term for what I would call black people' unfortunately produced no helpful results.

Is there any need for such nonsense? Or can you actually not come up with any search that would lead you to suitable results? I would be amazed if you could not find appropriate search terms.

If you can't then I'm not sure there is any point having a debate with you about this given something incredibly simplistic is beyond you.

CSF

parker kent wrote: »

Is there any need for such nonsense? Or can you actually not come up with any search that would lead you to suitable results? I would be amazed if you could not find appropriate search terms.

If you can't then I'm not sure there is any point having a debate with you about this given something incredibly simplistic is beyond you.

He was asking for someone's interpretation of it, not for a dictionary definition. I'd given him that long before. There is no point in having a debate with me about this, I would prefer if you didn't.

niallo27

#15 wrote: »

A lot of people making a late surge for the most biased poster of the year award.
I never knew people took the SF awards so seriously.

I'll vote for you if you want.

Mr Alan

Pro. F wrote: »

Referring to someone's race when you are having an argument is no less acceptable, no matter what the language is. Bringing race into an argument unnecessarily is racist, the language of the argument is irrelevant.

It's very relevant if the word in question is in no way abusive in that language.

Bringing up ethnicity was done by Evra, Suarez simply responded in kind.

While childish etc it may be to respond in kind, the player who brought ethnicity into it running to the media crying racist & this furore happening as a result is an absolute joke of the highest order.

parker kent

CSF wrote: »

He was asking for someone's interpretation of it, not for a dictionary definition. I'd given him that long before. There is no point in having a debate with me about this, I would prefer if you didn't.

Mr. Alan said "I've yet to be furnished with what is the correct term, ie. the equivalent to Caucasian". The answer to which can be found with a very simply search online. I assumed that to be the debate and missed this post: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76023022&postcount=2393

Nonetheless my annoyance is still the same. It is actually an extremely simple Google search to find the answer to that question. So in reality, my annoyance is directed at Mr Alan.

tommyhaas

parker kent wrote: »

Is there any need for such nonsense? Or can you actually not come up with any search that would lead you to suitable results? I would be amazed if you could not find appropriate search terms.

If you can't then I'm not sure there is any point having a debate with you about this given something incredibly simplistic is beyond you.

Really wasn't him being childish, as the post preceding his demonstrate

parker kent

tommyhaas wrote: »

Really wasn't him being childish, as the post preceding his demonstrate

I've already clarified my error. I didn't read it all properly.

Blatter

Mr Alan wrote: »

The American ones are obviously irrelevant in this instance. And I've never heard 'black african' be used ever in my life. That only leaves 'black'....and the word for black in the language the pair were conversing? Negro.

What you & others are saying is that apparently there is no word in Spanish that can be used without being offensive to describe a black man.

Blatter; I agree re: Winter. Which makes Evra's Ali G moment all the more hysterical!

Black African is a term used although granted it's not very common at all.

I agree black is the most common term in Europe. I've read some blacks use a capital b, some use lower case.

There is still no need to bring race into an argument on a football field and of course it's going to cause offense. I would never say to a person on the football field ''you black'' in any sort of tone during a heated situation, as there's absolutely no need for it and there's a strong risk of causing offense.

As Pro F alluded to a few times, something could be allowed go on in Uruguay and Spain and not be considered racist over there, yet the exact same thing can be considered racist over here. Their attitudes to racism are very different and questionable.

Regards Evra, yeah he's a tit if he said what he did. No doubts. But I guess credibility wise, it can't have done him too much damage if it's true that Suarez has admitted using the term Negro at least once.

Mr Alan

So why hasn't Evra being charged?

Afterall, according to the hearing the term negro was only used after Evra brought ethnicity into it.

Pro. F

Mr Alan wrote: »

It's very relevant if the word in question is in no way abusive in that language.

It's about context. Stop pretending you don't understand that. Referring to somebody's race is not, of itself, abusive in any language. Referring to their race unnecessarily while you are having an argument with them is not acceptable.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Bringing up ethnicity was done by Evra, Suarez simply responded in kind.

While childish etc it may be to respond in kind, the player who brought ethnicity into it running to the media crying racist & this furore happening as a result is an absolute joke of the highest order.

If Evra brought up ethnicity first, then yes I agree. In fact, even if he only responded in kind after Suarez racially abused him I would still think that was unacceptable as well. But we are not arguing about that. I've already said that if Evra referred to Suarez's ethnicity that I think that is unacceptable.

CSF

Pro. F wrote: »

It's about context. Stop pretending you don't understand that. Referring to somebody's race is not, of itself, abusive in any language. Referring to their race unnecessarily while you are having an argument with them is not acceptable.

Yup

Mr Alan

So if he was the one who brought up ethnicity then ran to the media after Suarez responded in kind claiming he'd been racially abused & there was no place for it in modern society, presumably you'd think he really was the lowest of the low?

Cause according to The Telegraph, it looks like that's what's coming out in the hearing.

Combined with the comments to the ref, it's head scratching stuff.

I used to be quite fond of him. Shame.

CSF

Mr Alan wrote: »

So if he was the one who brought up ethnicity then ran to the media after Suarez responded in kind claiming he'd been racially abused & there was no place for it in modern society, presumably you'd think he really was the lowest of the low?

Cause according to The Telegraph, it looks like that's what's coming out in the hearing.

Combined with the comments to the ref, it's head scratching stuff.

I used to be quite fond of him. Shame.

Based on the fact that this is only coming out now, I don't think its true. Would be the first thing mentioned if there was any truth attached.

Mr Alan

CSF wrote: »

Based on the fact that this is only coming out now, I don't think its true. Would be the first thing mentioned if there was any truth attached.

Well the stuff reported in the telegraph is only being reported for the first time now. You can't pick & choose what to believe from it, either Winter has the inside track on what's going on, or he doesn't.

CSF

Mr Alan wrote: »

Well the stuff reported in the telegraph is only being reported for the first time now. You can pick & choose what to believe from it, either Winter has the inside track on what's going on, or he doesn't.

Whether he has or he hasn't, a claim has been made now that wasn't made for the 2 monthsish proceeding the incident. If I called you a racist term, and you called me one back, and I reported you to the authorities and the media, you wouldn't wait 2 months to point out what I called you.

Pro. F

Mr Alan wrote: »

So if he was the one who brought up ethnicity then ran to the media after Suarez responded in kind claiming he'd been racially abused & there was no place for it in modern society, presumably you'd think he really was the lowest of the low?

Who are you asking? Me?

Yes I would be well pissed off with him if it did happen in that order. I would think that he is an immature simpleton tbh.

Kent Brockman

Mr Alan

CSF wrote: »

Whether he has or he hasn't, a claim has been made now that wasn't made for the 2 monthsish proceeding the incident. If I called you a racist term, and you called me one back, and I reported you to the authorities and the media, you wouldn't wait 2 months to point out what I called you.

Suarez never went into details about what exactly was or wasn't said. Evra did & it seems his version is not what is coming out in the hearing. Suarez just denied the charges & he didn't racially abuse him & that Utd players were taken aback by Evra's behaviour.

CSF

Mr Alan wrote: »

Suarez never went into details about what exactly was or wasn't said. Other than to say he denied the charges & he didn't racially abuse him & that Utd players were taken aback by Evra's behaviour.

He referred to what he said, and the context he said it in. He didn't ignore the issue or keep his mouth shut until the hearing. For me, there is no way there is no way he would have left out such a gigantic part of the issue when doing so could only harm him.

Mr Alan

Evra doesn't appear to be denying that version of events however. Reports of the hearing are saying that chain of events isn't really up for debate, it's the cultural nuances that are the issue.

Iang87

Can i just ask will anything happen with evra if suarez is found innocent? Naturally like most I haven't seen this type of high profile case in england but if he is found innocent can evra then be charged with bringing the game into disrepute cos I cant see a scenario where suarez gets off and they both walk hand in hand through a multicolour rainbow thus satisfying everybody.

CSF

Mr Alan wrote: »

Evra doesn't appear to be denying that version of events however. Reports of the hearing are saying that chain of events isn't really up for debate, it's the cultural nuances that are the issue.

Evra hasn't given an interview since that came out, it only came out today. If that turns out to be true I'll be majorly shocked.

flahavaj

Blatter wrote: »

Well I didn't think it was possible, but this case has become an even bigger clusterfúck than it already was.

It's hard to take the articles that you read too seriously as too many of them are written in a fairly biased manner, it has become a MUFC v LFC shítfest. You will read some articles that give off the impression that Suarez is innocent, and then others that infer he is as guilty as sin.

If Evra did play the race card on the referee, then that would have been incredibly stupid on his part and potentially very damaging to his credibility and he should be dealt with accordingly. You just can't be going around doing that.

With regards Suarez alledgedly saying the word ''negro'', I'm not sure how people are seeing nothing wrong with that. If I go into a pub and see a group of black people, I would in my fúck go up to them and call them negros or even consider it acceptable. And to say it on the pitch to an opponent during a feroicious game, is incredibly dodgy.

It may be acceptable in Uruaguay, but to my mind, it is nowhere near acceptable in Europe. IF Suarez did use that term, I feel he may have a hard time convincing the panel that he was unaware of any racial sensitivities connected with the word, taking into account he was living in Northern Europe since 2007.

Just looking forward to a conclusion to this one way or the other and hope to God it doesn't drag on even further.(Which it almost certainly will if Suarez is found guilty)

Agree with all this.

As always Blatter can be relied on to sum the whole thing up nicely. What Evra said to the ref (if true obviously)is an absolutely spastic thing to say tbh. If Suarez said "negro" at least it puts all the tedious arguing about "negrito" etc to bed.

Will be glad when this gets settled for once and for all tomorrow. Will it definitely be decided tomorrow btw? And is there a precedent for the punishment normally handed out if found guilty in such cases?

Crazy Horse 6

People like Evra have set the fight against racism in football back years. To ask the ref have what he did is a disgrace and in all honesty the ref should have sent him off there and then on the spot.

YouTookMyName

All the journos on twitter saying decision to be announced tomorrow

YouTookMyName

Iang87 wrote: »

Can i just ask will anything happen with evra if suarez is found innocent? Naturally like most I haven't seen this type of high profile case in england but if he is found innocent can evra then be charged with bringing the game into disrepute cos I cant see a scenario where suarez gets off and they both walk hand in hand through a multicolour rainbow thus satisfying everybody.

Nothing will happen to evra. But the mud will stick to suarez for ages.

mike65

YouTookMyName wrote: »

Nothing will happen to evra. But the mud will stick to suarez for ages.

I've a suspicion that despite the hoo-har this will actually blow over fairly quickly, the FA and the Prem will issues a statement each, the pundits will feed off it for about 48 hours and then life will go on. Complete with insults, slights, mis-understandings and cunning elbows in the face.

flahavaj

Mr Alan wrote: »

Well the stuff reported in the telegraph is only being reported for the first time now. You can't pick & choose what to believe from it, either Winter has the inside track on what's going on, or he doesn't.

Didn't Winter write one of Kenny's biographies? So chances are he does indeed have an inside track and a possible case of more of the "drip feeding" of info Fergie alluded to. :pac: