Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

SK1979

niallo27 wrote: »

Would people accept it was just a misunderstanding though, my point is it is not being portrayed as one. 8 match ban for a misunderstanding seems very harsh. This whole thing is a disaster though, i wont disagree there.

Niallo this is the thing most United / non-Liverpool fans want. An apology from either the player or club for the misunderstanding this has caused.

Quite simply, if this had happened earlier, this matter would be closed, but its deeply embarassing what your club is trying to do at present.

It doesn't have to be some grovelling thing either, ala what Slickric said is perfect. Sure it will probably garner a little bit of abuse at this stage, but it would draw a line under the matter.

lordgoat

SlickRic wrote: »

unfortunately, because the powers that be at our club, have continued to give rival fans and the media all the ammunition they need.

again, i agree with supporting the player, i doubt anyone begrudges the club that, because any club would, but there are ways of doing it. and we have to accept that we've gone about it arseways.

this was not the issue to use to try and garner a siege mentality.

if we'd apologised for the misunderstanding, accepted the ban, and continued to work with the FA, Kick It Out Campaign, whoever, to try and educate people further on the nuances of racist issues etc, or even continue to fight our corner behind closed doors, we'd have come out of this with integrity somewhat intact. and we've had several opportunities to do something like this, or just shut up. we chose neither, and instead the club chose to use it to bite back.

not the time, and not the issue i'm afraid.

Kenny comes out of it, very unfortunately looking like a stubborn teenager. brandishing the t-shirts "fantastic", and Suarez's statement as "brilliant", was just mental.

i'm a very proud Liverpool supporter, always have been.

but i do wish more people would have the fúcking balls to call a spade a spade. it's been handled appallingly, and the club have given the FA and rival fans every reason to think that we deserve everything we're getting. even if the report has what we believe are discrepancies in it, and there's more to it than what's being told so far, there is absolutely nothing to be gained from taking the stance we've taking in the stubborn nature we've taken it. if there is more truth to be found, then it will come out eventually.

my anger is with out handling of it all, nothing else.

the club's reaction has garnered the vast majority of the vitriol, not necessarily the offence itself.

i'd like one person to explain to me how in the name of Christ we have handled this in any way well? i'm genuinely intrigued...

Great post and attitude Slic

SlickRic wrote: »

so the media pokes you with a stick, you give them more ammo?

sorry, not buying it.

and the notion that Suarez apologising is admitting he is a racist is a fallacy too. if he made a statement saying something along the lines of...



...it'd be far more beneficial.

now while he would be maybe swallowing his pride somewhat, what a better way to handle it, eh?!

and that took me 5 minutes to come up with. the club hates racism, still stands by the player, and the player is regretful of a mistake and comes across as a humble, likeable human being.

it's not rocket science.

Tim Vickery said at the very start, he should have apologised for using a word he didn't know would cause such offense. Blamed it on cultural issues and assured one and all he never intended it in the way Evra construed. Had he then explained his meaning of the word as a non racist term (which is possible) i think everyone would have been ok with it. I would have no issue with that.

Had he did that, then he's accepted responsibility and handled the situation in a way that would have gotten him at max a 3 match ban.

I don't believe Suarez is a racist, he was trying to wind Evra up (fair game) he used one of the big no-no's to do it. And got stung. Harsh lesson but there you go.

Cantona's Collars

Picture taken at the Etihad Stadium last night,it's not just a United v Liverpool thing which many see it as and allow tribalism to cloud their views.



Liverpool have acted deplorably over this with their support of Suarez and basically calling Evra a liar.They should have kept their own house in order rather than trying to taint another player.Dalglish has acted like one of those skanger mothers who can see no wrong in what her kids do,no matter how bad it may be.

Strange how the owners haven't made any statements on the matter,the whole thing reflects badly on the club and rightly so given the hames LFC have made of handling the situation.The news today claims that the club is seeking more investment from the states,how will that work out if they are perceived to be openly supporting a racist.

Leiva

zerks wrote: »

Picture taken at the Etihad Stadium last night,it's not just a United v Liverpool thing which many see it as and allow tribalism to cloud their views.



Liverpool have acted deplorably over this with their support of Suarez and basically calling Evra a liar.They should have kept their own house in order rather than trying to taint another player.Dalglish has acted like one of those skanger mothers who can see no wrong in what her kids do,no matter how bad it may be.

Strange how the owners haven't made any statements on the matter,the whole thing reflects badly on the club and rightly so given the hames LFC have made of handling the situation.The news today claims that the club is seeking more investment from the states,how will that work out if they are perceived to be openly supporting a racist.

See what I mean :mad:

SlickRic

mixednuts wrote: »

See what I mean :mad:

that is the perception though.

because he says he has done nothing wrong, and because the club says he's done nothing wrong, then we look like we have something to hide.

i don't appreciate him being called a racist as much as you, and it's wrong IMO, but we've left ourselves open to that perception.

niallo27

zerks wrote: »

Picture taken at the Etihad Stadium last night,it's not just a United v Liverpool thing which many see it as and allow tribalism to cloud their views.



Liverpool have acted deplorably over this with their support of Suarez and basically calling Evra a liar.They should have kept their own house in order rather than trying to taint another player.Dalglish has acted like one of those skanger mothers who can see no wrong in what her kids do,no matter how bad it may be.

Strange how the owners haven't made any statements on the matter,the whole thing reflects badly on the club and rightly so given the hames LFC have made of handling the situation.The news today claims that the club is seeking more investment from the states,how will that work out if they are perceived to be openly supporting a racist.

That looks very photoshoped to me.

Paparazzo

niallo27 wrote: »

He will always be a legend, liverpool fans arent as fickle as your normal football supporter.

Well that's obvious, most of them seem to even excuse racism if the player is good enough

ilovelamp2000

SlickRic wrote: »

some people wouldn't, but i think a lot more people would be inclined to understand his point of view than they are at the moment with his and the club's refusal to budge, as well as making whispers that there's more to this case than is being let on.

if he can't let on, then Kenny should have just shut up and let it come out eventually if there is anything. i hope there is, as there will at least then be a modicum of justification for some of the antics.



yeah, if it was a misunderstanding, which the FA didn't buy because of Suarez's inconsistencies in his testimony.

also, i've covered the fact the club and Suarez deem the punishment harsh in my fake statement. they can still fight it behind closed doors while putting on a dignified face.

sometimes you just have swallow the pride and admit mistakes were made, be it in ignorance or whatever, and move on. you can't fight every battle, and this is not a battle, on such a sensitive issue, that we should've chosen to make such a stubborn stance on. it was never going to come across well.

As well as whoever is responsible for the PR (and I presume it's coming right form the top) the club need to take a long look at the legal department too.

We went in to a hearing with a solicitor, instead of a barrister. Quite why we did I don't know, but he could have handled it better and I think a good QC would have.

This isn't the first time he's ****ed up either:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/1679148.stm

niallo27

Suarez must have felt pretty pissed off after the game as well after someone accused him of calling him a n*****r in the wrong, it would have being hard for him to apologise.

ilovelamp2000

niallo27 wrote: »

Suarez must have felt pretty pissed off after the game as well after someone accused him of calling him a n*****r in the wrong, it would have being hard for him to apologise.

I think that's where Kenny's stance comes from on this issue. So I'm okay with him

Cantona's Collars

mixednuts wrote: »

See what I mean :mad:

Nice how you only highlighted the bit that suited you,the whole of the sentence I posted read:

"Perceived to be openly supporting a racist."

The key word was 'perceived' and the bit you highlighted pushed to whole thing out of context just to suit yourself.

purple'n'gold

In my opinion Kenny Dalglish has shown a lack of judgement in this case. The t-shirt business before the report was published was a bad management decision.

J. Marston

It won't happen but I'd like if the FA called Dalglish's bluff and asked him to reveal what he is not happy about. It's easy, and a bit stupid, to just say ''You don't know the whole truth!''

herbieflowers

Can someone explain one thing: Suarez claims cultural differences yet the report's linguistic experts say that irrespective of country (even Uruguay) this incident couldn't be construed as anything other than a racial slur Not stirring, I'm genuinely baffled by this.

Leiva

zerks wrote: »

Nice how you only highlighted the bit that suited you,the whole of the sentence I posted read:

The key word was 'perceived' and the bit you highlighted pushed to whole thing out of context just to suit yourself.

Opps my bad .

retracted .

J. Marston

Oliver Kay: 'Just had an interesting call. There'll be a very interesting development on this story in tomorrow's Times.'

Aparrently that was from a web-chat (not Twitter).

Dum dum duuuuuuum....

quarryman

SlickRic wrote: »

unfortunately, because the powers that be at our club, have continued to give rival fans and the media all the ammunition they need.

again, i agree with supporting the player, i doubt anyone begrudges the club that, because any club would, but there are ways of doing it. and we have to accept that we've gone about it arseways.

this was not the issue to use to try and garner a siege mentality.

if we'd apologised for the misunderstanding, accepted the ban, and continued to work with the FA, Kick It Out Campaign, whoever, to try and educate people further on the nuances of racist issues etc, or even continue to fight our corner behind closed doors, we'd have come out of this with integrity somewhat intact. and we've had several opportunities to do something like this, or just shut up. we chose neither, and instead the club chose to use it to bite back.

not the time, and not the issue i'm afraid.

Kenny comes out of it, very unfortunately looking like a stubborn teenager. brandishing the t-shirts "fantastic", and Suarez's statement as "brilliant", was just mental.

i'm a very proud Liverpool supporter, always have been.

but i do wish more people would have the fúcking balls to call a spade a spade. it's been handled appallingly, and the club have given the FA and rival fans every reason to think that we deserve everything we're getting. even if the report has what we believe are discrepancies in it, and there's more to it than what's being told so far, there is absolutely nothing to be gained from taking the stance we've taking in the stubborn nature we've taken it. if there is more truth to be found, then it will come out eventually.

my anger is with out handling of it all, nothing else.

the club's reaction has garnered the vast majority of the vitriol, not necessarily the offence itself.

i'd like one person to explain to me how in the name of Christ we have handled this in any way well? i'm genuinely intrigued...

it's posts like this that salvage the image of liverpool fans in many ways. top stuff.

Leiva

herbieflowers wrote: »

Can someone explain one thing: Suarez claims cultural differences yet the report's linguistic experts say that irrespective of country (even Uruguay) this incident couldn't be construed as anything other than a racial slur Not stirring, I'm genuinely baffled by this.

Has many meanings but im a Liverpool supporter so here is my biased cut from the FA Report :

The word "negro" is by no means, however, always used offensively. The term can also be
used as a friendly form of address to someone seen as somewhat brown-skinned or even
just black-haired. It may be used affectionately between man and wife, or
girlfriend/boyfriend, it may be used as a nickname in everyday speech, it may be used to
identify in neutral and descriptive fashion someone of dark skin; several famous people in
Uruguay are known as "el negro/la negra such-and-such".

Leiva

J. Marston wrote: »

Aparrently that was from a web-chat (not Twitter).

Dum dum duuuuuuum....

link or GTFO

J. Marston

Can't find a link, read it on another forum, plus The Times requires a subscription, I think. If it's bull, I'll delete it.

_blank_

I wonder if it's something to do with the stuff that Dalglish knows, but isn't in the report, and he can't tell anyone about. The conspiracy stuff he was going on about last night.

niallo27

I think people are being very harsh on Kenny, any manager would defend his player if an opposition player made false allegations towards their player.

spockety

niallo27 wrote: »

I think people are being very harsh on Kenny, any manager would defend his player if an opposition player made false allegations towards their player.

Stop embarrassing yourself with these disgraceful and disgusting comments.

cloptrop

niallo27 wrote: »

I think people are being very harsh on Kenny, any manager would defend his player if an opposition player made false allegations towards their player.

but its not a false allegation , an independant commision found him guilty , these are the laws of the game , why cant liverpool their fans and players accept them
if there was some goblegook conspiracy they would be appealing

SlickRic

niallo27 wrote: »

I think people are being very harsh on Kenny, any manager would defend his player if an opposition player made false allegations towards their player.

they weren't false.

Evra said he heard a racist comment, or several directed at him.

we can argue about the quantity and whether what the FA found was true, but it was at least once.

Kenny's a legend, i admire his passion, and his want to defend his player, but name me one thing he's done that has helped the club's cause in this issue...it's all been "backs to the wall", "us against them" stuff which has no put us in a good light at all.

and he continues to speak with pride of some very cringeworthy actions.

_blank_

niallo27 wrote: »

I think people are being very harsh on Kenny, any manager would defend his player if an opposition player made false allegations towards their player.

You're funny.

niallo27

spockety wrote: »

Stop embarrassing yourself with these disgraceful and disgusting comments.

Did evra not tell the ref he was called a n*****r, when in fact he wasn't having stated earlier he was called black, why did evra change his story.

niallo27

SlickRic wrote: »

they weren't false.

Evra said he heard a racist comment, or several directed at him.

we can argue about the quantity and whether what the FA found was true, but it was at least once.

Kenny's a legend, i admire his passion, and his want to defend his player, but name me one thing he's done that has helped the club's cause in this issue...it's all been "backs to the wall", "us against them" stuff which has no put us in a good light at all.

and he continues to speak with pride of some very cringeworthy actions.

Why did he tell the ref he was called a n****r.

SlickRic

niallo27 wrote: »

Why did he tell the ref he was called a n****r.

i'm pretty sure he told the ref that Suarez called him "black", but i'm open to correction. i'm not sifting through the report again.

and anyway, that has little to do with how Kenny's handled the situation, which is the issue you raised.

how has he handled it well?

_blank_

niallo27 wrote: »

Did evra not tell the ref he was called a n*****r

Wrong.

Stop making yourself look foolish.