Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

Sappy404

cambo2008 wrote: »

Yea but one scenario sounds far more plausible than the other.

'More plausible' is not proof. That the pair argued is circumstantial.

homerjay2005

K-9 wrote: »

I really hope some posters on here are being purposefully dumb, I really do.

indeed. its not painting liverpool in a good light at all. its damage limitations to a PR disaster now.

i suspect they are genuinly serious however.

in fairness, a few of the lads who were proud of the stance by the players last night and the statement, are starting to see the damage its doing to the clubs tarnished image and are starting to retract their support of it.

only 95% more now to go and we make be getting somewhere.

K-9

abelard wrote: »

No need to lump Chelsea in with Liverpool here, there's a few differences.

Terry is being charged. He hasn't been convicted. Nothing has been presented before any arbiter of fact or law. Suarez has been found guilty by the FA.

Chelsea stated they would support their player through the process as he denies the claim. Liverpool essentially rejected the findings of the FA, tried to deflect attention onto Evra, and said Suarez has diverse friends and family so could never act in a racist manner.

There's a massive gulf there. Chelsea have never stated that they will reject any findings made against Terry, nor should they if Terry is found guilty, which frankly I think he will be. In fact, I thought Chelsea's short statement on their website was fairly dignified - support the player, reaffirm commitment to combat racism, say no more comment will be offered during the legal process.

By that yardstick the FA have been remarkably dignified in the Terry case. You're giving them credit for something they've no control over. They can't comment on a criminal case, its no reflection one way or the other on Chelsea other than short messages of support.

Liverpool don't have to stay quiet just like many other clubs and managers haven't stayed quiet after FA judgements. Indeed its probably more common for managers to comment on the stupidity of the FA.

Warper

abelard wrote: »

No need to lump Chelsea in with Liverpool here, there's a few differences.

Terry is being charged. He hasn't been convicted. Nothing has been presented before any arbiter of fact or law. Suarez has been found guilty by the FA.

Chelsea stated they would support their player through the process as he denies the claim. Liverpool essentially rejected the findings of the FA, tried to deflect attention onto Evra, and said Suarez has diverse friends and family so could never act in a racist manner.

There's a massive gulf there. Chelsea have never stated that they will reject any findings made against Terry, nor should they if Terry is found guilty, which frankly I think he will be. In fact, I thought Chelsea's short statement on their website was fairly dignified - support the player, reaffirm commitment to combat racism, say no more comment will be offered during the legal process.

AVB came out yesterday and said he would support Terry no matter what the outcome of the case.

But fair enough a man is innocent until proven guilty so i'll give Chelsea the benefit of the doubt for now. Maybe they will learn how not to handle a racism case from Liverpool's mess.

abelard

eigrod wrote: »

Villas Boas said this today, so your point is actually wrong now :

"We know exactly his human values and personality, so we will support him whatever happens."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/16289446.stm

Fair enough I hadn't seen that quote. In truth, I will be disappointed if Terry is found guilty and the club continues to support his claim of innocence. I would be fine though if both Terry and the club accept a guilty verdict (if that's how it plays out), the club reprimands him appropriately (or accepts the FA reprimand) and then moves on. The club can still accept what happened and 'support' the player in that respect.

Whether Chelsea will or will not do that remains to be seen, and we won't know until the legal process has been gone through. What seems evident though is Liverpool are not accepting the decision, trying to blame others for what's happened, and inappropriately so. And that's where I want to separate their behaviour from Chelsea.

Will I Amnt

Sappy404 wrote: »

cambo2008 wrote: »

Yea but one scenario sounds far more plausible than the other.

'More plausible' is not proof. That the pair argued is circumstantial.

That's fair enough but if that's when the incident took place,using logical reasoning,I've formed my opinion on it.
If it turns out I'm wrong I'll hold my hands up and admit it.

Coupled with the FA findings I'd be prepared to put my house on it being anything but friendly.

Sappy404

There are morons on both sides.

I can understand why some people are accepting of the verdict. I can also understand why others have serious doubts about it. The thread is a mess when it doesn't need to be.

Perhaps this thread is best avoided until the FA release the evidence as has been promised. I don't know why they're delaying this further.

Meanwhile, very few people care about poor John Terry.

Warper

The fact is that no club is exempt from racism, it can happen anywhere.

But its the way the club deals with racism is what's important. LFC have really hit rock-bottom after their response to the whole case. It is totally unacceptable in this day and age to carry on the way they are. The reputation of the club, management and the supporters who are siding with the club are badly tarnished.

Sappy404

cambo2008 wrote: »

That's fair enough but if that's when the incident took place,using logical reasoning,I've formed my opinion on it.
If it turns out I'm wrong I'll hold my hands up and admit it.

Coupled with the FA findings I'd be prepared to put my house on it being anything but friendly.

But the FA's findings seem to be based on the same thing. That and Evra's testimony. That's where the verdict falls down in so many people's eyes.

If it were a court of law, a jury would certainly find reasonable doubt, unless there's further evidence to corroborate Evra's story. Given Liverpool's stance, it seems unlikely.

Paully D

Sappy404 wrote: »

He's familiar with the case and believes him innocent. He has done from the start. Why should he accept the FA's ruling when he believes it to be wrong? If Suarez was found not guilty, would Ferguson come out and accept the decision, or would he defend Evra to the hilt because he felt he'd been racially abused?

In fairness to Fergie all he has really said on the matter is that Evra is sticking by his claims and will pursue the case.

He certainly would never go as far as the embarrassing acts you would not associate with a professional Premier League manager, like wearing t-shirts with his players face on them after he had been found guilty of making comments to a player about his skin colour.

Actually, don't even compare Fergie and Dalglish. Dalglish isn't fit to lick the dirt off his boots.

Will I Amnt

Sappy404 wrote: »

But the FA's findings seem to be based on the same thing. That and Evra's testimony. That's where the verdict falls down in so many people's eyes.

If it were a court of law, a jury would certainly find reasonable doubt, unless there's further evidence to corroborate Evra's story. Given Liverpool's stance, it seems unlikely.

I'm not a court of law,just stating my opinion,the obvious to me.
It's the stance from some fans that the opposite is just as believable that gets to me.

homerjay2005

Paully D wrote: »

Actually, don't even compare Fergie and Dalglish. Dalglish isn't fit to lick the dirt off his boots.

Dalglish has a huge role to play in this fisaco, he is so out of touch with modern football its unreal.

the only thing he has learned from the modern manager, is how to waste money. he should have stayed retired, he is a doting old man now whose best years were 15-35 years ago.

of course, like everything a bad word cant be said about him, but if i was a supporter of a club he managed, i would be embarrassed by this all. hopefully people will start calling for his head in the next few weeks, though i think for the benifit of everybody else, its great if he stays. his results are poor and his interviews and fails are of the epic kind.

Mr Alan

Sappy404

cambo2008 wrote: »

I'm not a court of law,just stating my opinion,the obvious to me.
It's the stance from some fans that the opposite is just as believable that gets to me.

I think you'll find people are contesting the decision, and not just arguing your opinion on it.

One piece of circumstantial evidence and a plaintiff's testimony are insufficient evidence for a conviction in any fair court as there's still a reasonable doubt. Of course, we don't know if there's any other evidence, or what Suarez's testimony was. Liverpool are saying there isn't any. When we find out for sure, we'll see where everyone stands.

LuckyLloyd

TheDoc wrote: »

The defence of Suaraz is just a completely different kind of idiotic fanboism.

He called Evra , "Nigerito" as admitted by his representatives and presented as "defence" in his case.

While Nigerito is infact a slang term in South American Spanish for "Mate" or "pal" the simple fact is, hes not in ****ing South America.

Take his slap on the wrist, which is all it is, and consider himself lucky he can play football in England again, because if there was any true bollox in the FA hed be banned. Cantona got longer for kicking a muppet, far less serious then this incident.

The statement from Liverpool is beyond a joke and just pure stupidity, and the sly digs at Evra and the sly digs at United from Liverpool officials is sour grapes.

He was a nacker before he came to England and hes a nacker still. Scoring goals in a team where Andy Carroll is your main competition for a spot doesn't excuse acting like a thug on the street.

A proper football club would kick a player found guilty of racism out straight away.
Proper fans of the game would not stand for him wearing the shirt again and want him out.
Decent human beings would not give him the time of day.

But sure its Liverpool, and they are the victim...cause don't you know they won some leagues over 20 years ago and entitles them to feel hard done by.

The talk from Liverpool fans across forums and in the workplace compound my neutral opinion that they are the worst fans going, where they just simply can't see any impartial logical view : /

Rant over,

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm all up for a game of quote tennis.

The mere fact this has been deemed by people as "harsh" just makes my mind implode.

What's harsh is that he gets fined peanuts and gets an 8 game ban : /

I'm sorry but I do get annoyed when clear and blatant scum get of easy. And there is I will admit, bias to completely dislike Suaraz because I think he is nothing but common dirt. And this recent incident just compounds what I thought of him, long before he arrived in England.

And I also can't help notice that there is all this noise about " what was the evidence?"

It was easily over a month ago his representatives openly stated what he had said, and the defence for it. It was all over the internet, I'm surprised after I read the various reports there was people who'd think he'd get away with it.

And the " we would like to inquire how Patrice Evra will be reprimanded for his racist slur against Luis when he labelled him "South American".

........

your club is the laughing stock of the world, I'm sorry, but that line took the biscuit for me

I'd say the rage is coming because old Kenny realises he's stuck with that €30 million heap of ****e for 8 games : /

That's some epically bad posting right there. The genuine sincerity is very unfortunate too.

LuckyLloyd

super_furry wrote: »

Exactly. This isn't a thread about racism - if it were John Terry would be the main focus. This is a thread for United fans to get their digs in.

Nail on the head.

Will I Amnt

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

super_furry wrote: »

Exactly. This isn't a thread about racism - if it were John Terry would be the main focus. This is a thread for United fans to get their digs in.

Nail on the head.

There is 2 sides to the arguments here,if there were Chelsea fans on here crying over the CPS deciding Terry has a case to answer for then there would be plenty of talk about him.

DOC09UNAM

niallo27 wrote: »

Paully D wrote: »

The way Dalglish has conducted himself is, quite frankly, a joke. Shankly would be turning in his grave. No class at all.

Shankly would have booted evra up the hole and told him get on with it.

Shankly had liverpool in his blood and definitely wouldn't turn his back on a player of the club, any suggestion otherwise is ludicrous.

Peyton Manning

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Shankly had liverpool in his blood and definitely wouldn't turn his back on a player of the club, any suggestion otherwise is ludicrous.

True, but you certainly wouldn't see him - a grown man - wearing a t-shirt over a suit with a players face on it while giving an interview.

homerjay2005

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Nail on the head.

is it? appears to me like the majoroty of the digs are liverpool fans blaming Evra, united, the panel, the hotel, the united staff, the players, mike phelan, jesus, obama, oprah, george best, cantona, the pope, Bin Ladin, society, the fa, the people who developed gobal culture and all the rest who are evil and out to get suarez.

united fans are merely highlighting the disgusting nature of the tastless and vile campaign that seems to be growing out of anfield and is filtering dont to the supporters on the message forums and social media.

thankfully, the campaign seems to now be on the wain and being distanced by the few decent liverpool fans out there.

Blatter

Originally Posted by super_furry
Exactly. This isn't a thread about racism - if it were John Terry would be the main focus. This is a thread for United fans to get their digs in.

This is just nonsense. It might be true for a minority but for the majority of United fans, obviously the Suarez case is going to be more of a talking point than the JT case because it directly affects one of their players. Especially when LFC are releasing statements that just stop short of calling Evra a liar. As Daniel Taylor said, If this were politics, it would be described as a smear campaign.

Also, Suarez has been found guilty whereas JT hasn't of yet, so obviously this case will be more of a talking point for now.

LuckyLloyd

homerjay2005 wrote: »

is it? appears to me like the majoroty of the digs are liverpool fans blaming Evra, united, the panel, the hotel, the united staff, the players, mike phelan, jesus, obama, oprah, george best, cantona, the pope, Bin Ladin, society, the fa, the people who developed gobal culture and all the rest who are evil and out to get suarez.

united fans are merely highlighting the disgusting nature of the tastless and vile campaign that seems to be growing out of anfield and is filtering dont to the supporters on the message forums and social media.

thankfully, the campaign seems to now be on the wain and being distanced by the few decent liverpool fans out there.

Yeah, it is.

Vudgie

homerjay2005 wrote: »

is it? appears to me like the majoroty of the digs are liverpool fans blaming Evra, united, the panel, the hotel, the united staff, the players, mike phelan, jesus, obama, oprah, george best, cantona, the pope, Bin Ladin, society, the fa, the people who developed gobal culture and all the rest who are evil and out to get suarez.

united fans are merely highlighting the disgusting nature of the tastless and vile campaign that seems to be growing out of anfield and is filtering dont to the supporters on the message forums and social media.

thankfully, the campaign seems to now be on the wain and being distanced by the few decent liverpool fans out there.

What a ridiculous and childish statement.

By all means lets debate the issue at hand but this sort of stuff is a prime example of someone that is fulfilling an inherent dislike or hatred of fellow football fans on the back of what is a serious issue.

I am fully aware that I too have probably fulfilled your intentions by responding to you but so be it.

homerjay2005

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yeah, it is.

can i ask you, which of the following should liverpool do -

a - do what they did, realease a statement that they knew would cause havoc, lashing everything and blaming it on this and that, spouting lies and defaming the name of evra

or

b - released a short statement 4 or 5 lines, backing the player and vowing to clear his name, once report is realeased in a professional, controlled manner.

or

c - kept quiet and waited until report is released and said or did nothing.

homerjay2005

Vudgie wrote: »

What a ridiculous and childish statement.

i have acknowledged there are decent liverpool fans out there, how is that childish?

are you saying there are none? i dont get you, if you are, thats not fair, some liverpool fans are really top blokes you know.

Vudgie

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i have acknowledged there are decent liverpool fans out there, how is that childish?

are you saying there are none? i dont get you, if you are, thats not fair, some liverpool fans are really top blokes you know.

It is obvious what you are at so let's not bother.

DOC09UNAM

Peyton Manning wrote: »

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Shankly had liverpool in his blood and definitely wouldn't turn his back on a player of the club, any suggestion otherwise is ludicrous.

True, but you certainly wouldn't see him - a grown man - wearing a t-shirt over a suit with a players face on it while giving an interview.

Yeah, that was retarded tbh, not doing suarez any favours dragging it out like this, liverpool desperately need new PR people, and kenny needs a slice of cop on.

Nalz

Thread has gone to fúck

Like my work colleague who's a pool fan said to me:

Harsh banning but needs to be made an example out of.
He admits to saying something that can be taken as a racial slur in England.
Statement from Liverpool seems childish and over the top.
The supporting tops are a bit much.
Some United fans need to pipe down and stop gloating its not a victory.
United as a football club stayed clear of the proceedings it seems.
His ban will probably be reduced then topped up with the flip the bird to the Fulhams fans incident.
Field day for tabloids.
FA have to act in similar fashion to Terry.

Fair non bollox summary imo and I felt like shaking his hand and buying him a smoothie.

rover n rout rodger!

DOC09UNAM

In unrelated news, I now want a smoothie.

homerjay2005

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Dalglish has a huge role to play in this fisaco, he is so out of touch with modern football its unreal.

the only thing he has learned from the modern manager, is how to waste money. he should have stayed retired, he is a doting old man now whose best years were 15-35 years ago.

of course, like everything a bad word cant be said about him, but if i was a supporter of a club he managed, i would be embarrassed by this all. hopefully people will start calling for his head in the next few weeks, though i think for the benifit of everybody else, its great if he stays. his results are poor and his interviews and fails are of the epic kind.

No offence but what age are you?

Such drivel.

Your posts in your own superthread are even scoffed at by utd fans but this takes the biscuit.

Personal digs at Kenny Dalglish, grow up ffs.