Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

TheDoc

citytillidie wrote: »

And you use of calling him a "nacker" is almost as bad as to what Suarez has done, nice one

He is filth..... he has done little in his footballing career to defer any assumption that if he was not a footballer, that he wouldn't be a thug in the streets.....

Obviously that assumption is not based on a comment he made to another player, but you only have to look at how he conducts himself off the ball to see hes an origin of filth.

And no, not "old fashioned centre forward"

K-9

flahavaj wrote: »

The only true colours being shown in the last few days have been by LFC in their desire to bizarrely pander to the most militant and dim-witted elements of their support with that statement.

The irony of the thanks on that.

Did the BBC tell you to dumb down your posts?

Nalz

cournioni wrote: »

Absolutely despicable show from Liverpool tonight. Showing support for a player that has racially abused another player. Hardly surprising from a club that has a history of showing no accountability for their actions. Some of the statements of victimisation have been truly sickening to be honest as was their accusation that Patrice Evra was "playing the race card" even though Suarez had admitted using the word albeit "in a different context".

Let me ask you, what context between fierce rivals in the heat of battle can the word negrito be used that isn't derogatory?! Especially when you take both players facial expressions at the time of the confrontation into account. They are more or less condoning covering up of the issue of racism for their own benefit. No surprise there I suppose.

Blame Evra, blame United, blame the FA, blame Uruguayan culture, blame context, blame anything and anyone but yourselves Liverpool. What else is new?!

Great post tbf

TheDoc

niallo27 wrote: »

By that reasoning should the likes of giggs and rooney get harsher penaltys if they are found quilty of something.

I have the rare opportunity of being neutral to the premier league and following no team.

It doesn't take an absolute genius to work out the dirt in the game. Of course there is in some circumstances personal bias, not so much hatred, towards some players I watch on a regular basis because of a number of reasons.

For example, I genuinely hope John Terry gets flushed down the toilet. Not so that hes removed of his Captaincy, not so that hes tarnished as a racist, but because maybe English fans and journalists might realise the only reason he was in anyway shape or form a "top centre back" was because of the bloke that played next to him, and his quick and speedy exit from the England setup can only hasten the ascendancy of Jones and Smalling

Anyway I'm going to leave it here folks, enjoy the rest of the "debate".

Unfortunately from the days adventures, most of these types of threads are filled with Liverpool fans who are finding it hard to accept any sort of responsibly for what their player has done and admitted to saying,

I'm sure there is a conspiracy theory that Ryan Giggs used his cunning sleezey characteristics into tricking Suaraz into saying what he said.
Or that Sir Alex Ferguson used his mind games to trick Suaraz into thinking he was on the "mean" streets of Uruguay talking to his buddies, and he just got confused.

cournioni

I would also like to point out to anybody that thinks that Evra had "misunderstood" Suarez's meaning of the word, that Evra is fluent in Spanish, which is why Carlos Tevez was a good friend of his while he was at United (and may still be). I'm pretty sure he understands what was said to him...

citytillidie

Trilla wrote: »

Great post tbf

So i take it you had an issue with United supporting Rio when he was banned for missing the drugs test, or Cantona when he came back from his ban for attacking a fan?

flahavaj

K-9 wrote: »

The irony of the thanks on that.

Did the BBC tell you to dumb down your posts?

You think that statement was a reasonable response to this most delicate of situations? Was it f*ck. The fact that it has been lapped up by every half wit on Facebook and Twitter is evidence in itself of how ill advised it was. People in powitions of power shouldn't give morons the belief that the sh*te they spout is justified and acceptable.

Seaneh

TheDoc wrote: »

Suaraz' Representatives as part of their hearing last month put forward how he labelled Evra a "Nigerito" ( I might be mispelling) which in certain dialects of Spanish is a slang term for "mate or "pal".

I'm really failing to see how people did not know this, and its like they pulled some random bollox from the sky to charge him with. He fronted up what he said, which I guess I'll give him some credit, but then that credit quickly diminished.

Text messages were provided and transcripts of players texting each other using the slang term to each other.

I guess in a sense he is probably not a big filthy racist, but its kinda along the same lines as calling someone "nigga" to a stranger of African descent, and when they pull you up for racism you replying " nah its grand sure, thats what I call me pals back home".

It simply doesn't fly.

Guilerme Balleague ( epic spellcheck) also tweeted last month after the the reports on Suaraz defence case, indicating that while the term was infact slang in Spanish culture, it is also used as a racial slur on those that would not understand the dialect.

Which is pretty obvious when you read the word.....

None of what you said stands up for many reasons.

1) I've been to South America, almost every Spanish country on the continent, in every one of them, Negro/Negra/Negrito/Negrita was used in a friendly way and ONLY in a friendly way. People were SHOCKED when I pointed out that to people from the west it could be seen as racist, they couldn't get their heads aorund the idea, the ****ing called me Negro ffs, I'd pale, blonde and blue eyed, it had NOTHING to do with race.

2) Evra DOES speak spanish, so the "it can be an insult to someone who doesn't speak spanish" line doesn't hold up at all.

3) It is absolutely NOTHING like you saying "nigga" to a pal, it MIGHT be like a peurto rican or cuban guy from harlem saying Nigga to an african american.

Peurto Ricans and Cubans aren't black, but they do use the word "nigga", a lot, and openly, in Music, Movies, every day life and amongst themselves and when talking to African Americans, they use it a lot, it's perfectly acceptable for them to say it, even to African Americans, it's part of their culture.

If a Peurto Rican lad ended up in Hackney and said Nigga to a Jamacian Yardie, the yardie wouldn't get but hurt and act like he'd been offended, pointing out the difference int heir skin tones, he's recognise it as a cultural thing and gte the **** over it.

This is far more like a Hispanic Guy using the word Nigga than it is some tool from Ballygobackwards Co. Meath saying Nigga.

Blatter

I would urge anyone that has 5 mins to read this, it clears up some of the ignorance portrayed towards racism in this thread and offers a very good insight into the whole saga imo.

http://thefaithfulmufc.com/2011/12/21/the-perfect-storm-is-suarez-a-true-racist-no-but-the-truth-is/#more-3237

We live in strange times

Why are they strange? Well, our culture is dominated by political correctness. And that political correctness dominates the way we think..and the way we judge.

The Suarez-Evra case was always going to blow the lid from the proverbial coffee jar. In the UK we take race about as seriously as any nation on the planet. We have laws that protect our citizens against having their colour or creed used against them. Of course, racists still exist on this island nation..Racism is terminal and has no cure…but we do our best to suppress it. We take its wind from its sails. The fight against it should be something we are proud of. Tolerant Britain is more than just a mindset. It’s an achievement. An achievement many other first world countries can not claim as their own.

As a person that was given this colour by the DNA mixing of my parents, I have indeed been subjected to a myriad of racism over the years. I am 35 years old. And most of that racism I suffered happened as a kid in the 1980s. We would all agree that the face of racism has changed since then. Our modern culture’s ambition to police our morals more than say…our banks, has led to the big cornerstones of discrimination (racism, sexism, homophobia, etc) to be put in a definable box. This allows us to control it. And if you are directly effected by these things, this can only be a good thing.

So the questions pop up: What exactly did Suarez call Evra? After the Uruguayan alluded to the language he uses and that is “normal from where I come from” you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to guess. The FA commissions evidence will soon be released and we will all know. But in this tabloid headline driven heart of England…the question has morphed into: Is Luis Suarez a racist?

My opinion is that Luis Suarez is not a racist. He probably never has been…and probably never will be.

But that is NOT the issue here.

The charge to answer here is not of Suarez’s philosophy on race. It is whether he used Evra’s race against him on the football pitch to gain a psychological edge. As the FA have given the Liverpool player an 8 match ban, I would say its pretty conclusive that question has been answered in full.

People blur the lines of what being a racist truly is…and I find it’s the white population that doesn’t fully understand this more than those in the direct firing line (note: you can also be racially abused if you have a white skin colour. It’s not exclusive to our darker skin tones) The indigenous population as a whole are thoroughly disgusted by racism of any form…but this outrage smashes the technical principles of what defines a true racist. So if you use terms of race as Suarez has…or as Ron Atkinson grossly did…then you are automatically a racist…like if you kill someone with a knife, you are automatically a murderer. I’m sorry, but the two are not definable by the same means.

Race can be used against you in so many ways. But the most common way is to belittle you. In a situation of ‘heat’ it is not uncommon for one or both parties to overstep the line, once the insults start flying. It takes a bigger man to not partake or retaliate. So when the race card is used by someone that automatically makes them racist? No. It makes them ignorant. They may not ‘hate’ that race. They may not blink twice as they pass a black man in the street. But through opportunism and maybe even a lack of intelligence..they will strike out in the worst form possible. This is not racism. Suarez insulted Evra to get under his skin. To wind him up. That doesn’t make him any less guilty of the charge in hand. In fact it proves that charge. But the line of what is racism and what isn’t, is a shade of metallic grey as opposed to black or white. Like if you use the term ‘gay’..are you directly homophobic? Of course not.

What is the most dangerous thing about all of this case is the general apathy and malaise from some sections of the public on the subject matter. ‘Evra has got form’, ‘It’s a storm in a teacup’, ‘ Suarez is a good bloke’, ‘it was all a bit of banter’ & ‘football isn’t the same as any other work place’ …..all of these are excuses. This is not a matter of football. This isn’t about the obvious rivalry of United and Liverpool. If this happened in any other workplace or scenerio, the nation would be up in arms. Remember Jade Goody and Shilpa Shetty?? (was Jade a true racist? No..but not to speak ill of the dead, she was certainly ignorant) It would lead to a dismissal and a firm conclusive end. As much as footballers wish to believe they are exempt from normal society (driving their Aston Martins around at 120mphs) they most certainly are not when it comes to race. Football also believes that homosexuality doesn’t exist. ..And thank God women don’t play the game eh?! Imagine the problems in the changing rooms?

Liverpool’s statement is the epitome of everything that is wrong in the game..and thankfully the boot is not on the Man Utd foot, because today I would have to slam my football club. If you think Suarez is innocent then defend the man in the correct manner. Do not release an emotive statement of how Suarez can’t be a racist because he’s mixed race…because he’s got colleagues he has never been racist towards…that Evra can’t be trusted…it is all complete smoke and mirrors, and deflects away from the only question at hand that is…Did he use racist language? As I’ve said the charge isn’t about whether Suarez is a racist. Already this has turned into ‘Its because we are scousers’…Dalglish has whipped up the situation with a ‘Lets not let Luis walk alone’ tweet. Not ‘Lets find out the truth’. The statement and Dalglish’s position are all designed to get the fans riled up and firing. Racism is being used for football’s own pathetic means. If Ferguson had done that on this subject matter I would be truly disgusted. No wonder why the homosexual footballers of our nation wont come out of the closet. Our game stinks of hypocrisy.

This for once is not about Mancunians or Scousers. Or about black people or white people. It is not about real racism, or gas chambers, or genocide, or extreme xenophobia created by the austerity our countries are going through right now. It is about whether one bloke overstepped the mark…in what is deemed a nasty and unacceptable manner. But nasty and unacceptable in Uruguay?? Well this is England. Suarez works in England. He lives in full-time residence in England. He pays taxes to the British government. If someone called me a name referring to my race I would happily report them…and im delighted Evra did the same. The bad side of me would want to also remove their teeth…and im very happy Evra didn’t do that…because that’s what Suarez would have wanted. Eric Cantona was racially abused by a fan and paid for it with the best part of a year of his career. In 2011 I would rather a player took the proper channels and risked the ridicule Patrice will now suffer, rather than Kung Fu kick an ignorant and unintelligent person in the face.

To close, I touched on Ron Atkinson earlier. Big Ron championed the black footballer. Ask John Barnes and he will tell you how not racist the former United manager is. But Ron used a racist term. He got caught out. People will automatically assume that Atkinson is a massive racist, dancing around his home in KKK gear he got mail order…burning crosses in his back garden. As we know this is not true. Ron’s ultimate punishment is the stigma that sticks when you are associated with racism…whether you are a fully fledged member of the BNP or not. Suarez’s punishment is the same. When his eight games are done, people will look back in years to come and say ‘that is the bloke who racially abused a fellow pro…but thankfully we live in a country that rejects such things and punishes accordingly’

That is Suarez’s true sentence. And if you do the crime…you have to do the time.

We all have freedom of choice. Suarez chose what came out of his mouth. Liverpool fans may try to defend him with their faux reasonings, but at the end of the day….this is a very simple case to answer. I’m proud of Patrice Evra…that he didn’t turn a blind eye. And for once im proud of our FA…Why? Well… what did the Spanish FA do when their manager racially abused Thierry Henry? The FA have made the type of statement that Sepp Blatter couldn’t give a monkeys about in his ivory tower, where racism does not exist.

Racism will never walk alone. Because we will always be there to fight it. Luis Suarez needs to take his medicine like a man.

flahavaj

citytillidie wrote: »

So i take it you had an issue with United supporting Rio when he was banned for missing the drugs test, or Cantona when he came back from his ban for attacking a fan?

They could have released a simple statement expressing their support of the player instead of resorting to the Craggy Island level rubbish they released last night.

Nalz

citytillidie wrote: »

So i take it you had an issue with United supporting Rio when he was banned for missing the drugs test, or Cantona when he came back from his ban for attacking a fan?

Cantona should have got longer imo.
Rio I thought was harsh and I do have an issue with how the Toure ban was handled differently and had a lesser punishment as far as I remember.

I'm not a biased fan citytillidie. I won't bite or have the banter/trollfest as it was called on here when United were knocked out of the CL, completely different situation. I don't like Suarez I will admit. I'm not Evras biggest fan either. I wish this didn't happen and I think Liverpool FC should have dealt with it differently.

Mr Alan

flahavaj wrote: »

They could have released a simple statement expressing their support of the player instead of resorting to the Craggy Island level rubbish they released last night.

What part of it was untrue? Genuinely.

flahavaj

Blatter wrote: »

I would urge anyone that has 5 mins to read this, it clears up some of the ignorance portrayed towards racism in this thread and offers a very good insight into the whole saga imo.

Good read. The FA have taken avery brave stance when other federations around the world cower away from the issue.

Meanwhile LFC release a statement that is the written equivalent of Sepp Blatter publishing pictures of him hugging black men. The absolute f*cking state of them the last few days, shame on them. Their on-pitch decline is now matched with an off pitch decline in decency and morals.

Nalz

oh good night!

cournioni

citytillidie wrote: »

So i take it you had an issue with United supporting Rio when he was banned for missing the drugs test, or Cantona when he came back from his ban for attacking a fan?

There still are a number of United fans that hate Rio for what he did. I wouldn't be the biggest fan of him as a person either.

Cantona was banned by United for doing what he did. He will always be held in high regard amongst United fans because he didn't stand back and put up with abuse from a fan that thought he was untouchable and saying disgusting things to Cantona.

Mr Alan

Flah, remember you used to be a decent poster?

Those were the days

niallo27

flahavaj wrote: »

Good read. The FA have taken avery brave stance when other federations around the world cower away from the issue.

Meanwhile LFC release a statement that is the written equivalent of Sepp Blatter publishing pictures of him hugging black men. The absolute f*cking state of them the last few days, shame on them. Their on-pitch decline is now matched with an off pitch decline in decency and morals.

You really dont like liverpool do you, its not healthy to carry that much hate inside you.

Fromthetrees

What a dementedly long thread.
Suarez isn't even white.

K-9

flahavaj wrote: »

You think that statement was a reasonable response to this most delicate of situations? Was it f*ck. The fact that it has been lapped up by every half wit on Facebook and Twitter is evidence in itself of how ill advised it was. People in powitions of power shouldn't give morons the belief that the sh*te they spout is justified and acceptable.

No Flah, the I know black people defence is stupid, but as I already said, it's the Jade Goodie defence, par for the course. Terry is using it.

There's a hell of a lot of perfectly reasonable points in the statement, that the dumb section of your support would like to ignore. Evra has been been found to have given suspect advice to the FA before. Why would the FA treat his evidence so strongly then?

The statement raises plenty of valid concerns. They may not be valid to you as a United fan and Muppet fan, but perfectly valid all the same.

Peyton Manning

niallo27 wrote: »

You really dont like liverpool do you, its not healthy to carry that much hate inside you.

I don't think the majority of Liverpool's statement is as bad as some are making out, but the whole "Luis Suarez is friends with black people, how could he be racist?" paragraph is cringeworthy beyond belief. The most baffling aspect of it is I'm sure you have to a have a good profile to work in a PR department for a club of Liverpool's stature, so how they collectively agreed that this part of the statement was worth including is beyond belief.

eagle eye

Blatter wrote: »

I would urge anyone that has 5 mins to read this, it clears up some of the ignorance portrayed towards racism in this thread and offers a very good insight into the whole saga imo.

http://thefaithfulmufc.com/2011/12/21/the-perfect-storm-is-suarez-a-true-racist-no-but-the-truth-is/#more-3237

While I don't necessarily agree with all of it, I think its very well written and hopefully others will read that and understand the difference between a racial slur and being a racist.

Jesus Wept

Still sickened that I wasn't watching that United match when Cantona went Chuck Norris, it was a great piece of drama to be fair. To watch it live would have been all the more mind boggling.

citytillidie

cournioni wrote: »

There still are a number of United fans that hate Rio for what he did. I wouldn't be the biggest fan of him as a person either.

Cantona was banned by United for doing what he did. He will always be held in high regard amongst United fans because he didn't stand back and put up with abuse from a fan that thought he was untouchable and saying disgusting things to Cantona.

Only before the FA could do anything, United still wanted to have him play in the reserves to keep his self fit which the FA denied

1995: Cantona banned over attack on fan
Manchester United's Eric Cantona has been fined £20,000 and banned from playing football over his kung fu-style attack on a fan.
The club has relegated the French star striker to the bench for nine months for lashing out at a fan in the front row during a game against Crystal Palace two days ago.

Cantona has also been stripped of his captaincy of the French national team and he has lost his place in the side.

Cantona claims the fan, Matthew Simmons, shouted racial insults and threw a missile at him as he walked off the pitch after being given a red card for kicking another player during a tackle.

Fiery temper

The Frenchman leapt at the fan, aiming both feet at his chest. He then threw several punches, before police, stewards and other members of the crowd managed to pull him off. Fellow United player, Paul Ince, is also reported to have thrown some punches.

Cantona's fiery temper has got him in trouble before. In 1987 he punched his own team's goalkeeper at Auxerre, leaving him with a black eye. He was also suspended by Marseille for kicking a ball into the crowd and throwing his shirt at the referee after being substituted.

Cantona retaliated by retiring from the premier league in France - and moving to England.

The number seven player - and his teammate Ince - are still facing a criminal investigation following assault charges brought by police.

At a news conference earlier today, United chairman Martin Edwards appeared to suggest Cantona could still play this season for the reserves - in order to keep himself fit.

However, this has already been ruled out by Football Association Chief Executive Graham Kelly.

He said: "I don't think there's any real prospect that he'll be playing for Manchester United reserves, A team or whatever, between now and the date of his commission hearing here."

The hearing will take place in three weeks' time and is likely to confirm the player's suspension.

Crystal Palace has withdrawn Mr Simmon's season ticket for breaking ground rules.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/27/newsid_2506000/2506237.stm

niallo27

cournioni wrote: »

There still are a number of United fans that hate Rio for what he did. I wouldn't be the biggest fan of him as a person either.

Cantona was banned by United for doing what he did. He will always be held in high regard amongst United fans because he didn't stand back and put up with abuse from a fan that thought he was untouchable and saying disgusting things to Cantona.

You have a go at liverpool fans but your saying your crowd condone someone who jumps into a crowd and kicks someone in the head, double standards i think.

eagle eye

The-Rigger wrote: »

Still sickened that I wasn't watching that United match when Cantona went Chuck Norris, it was a great piece of drama to be fair. To watch it live would have been all the more mind boggling.

I did and was shocked and speechless while it went on. He had form and lots of it, he regularly stamped on other players on the pitch and he had a lot of history before he went to United. I still rate him one of the best to ever play in the Premier League though.

The_Kew_Tour

niallo27 wrote: »

You really dont like liverpool do you, its not healthy to carry that much hate inside you.

Ya cause ye love United right?;)

flahavaj

Mr Alan wrote: »

What part of it was untrue? Genuinely.

LFC wrote:

We find it extraordinary that Luis can be found guilty on the word of Patrice Evra alone when no-one else on the field of play - including Evra's own Manchester United teammates and all the match officials - heard the alleged conversation between the two players in a crowded Kop goalmouth while a corner kick was about to be taken.

Suarez himself went to teh Urugyuan media a few eeeks back (in direct defiance of FA orders may I add) and admitted he had said a (thus far unidentified) word to Evra. We know something was said, it is not one man's word againts the other as LFc blatantly state here.

LFC wrote:

It is also our opinion that the accusation by this particular player was not credible - certainly no more credible than his prior unfounded accusations.

They also refer to Evra making accusations in the past - this as you had to be shown yourself on many occasions over the past few weeks has been shown to be untrue. They're clearly lying as was LFC TV's own reporter when this particular line was initially spread on twitter. That the club would continue to spread such bile is beyond reprehensible.

And thats even befopre we get into the stuff thats just donwright laughabel like telling us that lovley little story about how Surez couldn't possibly ever use a racist term, shur his grandad was black. Unreal. Laughing stock.

cournioni

niallo27 wrote: »

You have a go at liverpool fans but your saying your crowd condone someone who jumps into a crowd and kicks someone in the head, double standards i think.

Eric did his time, without any fuss. Liverpool claim innocence and then change that to victimisation whenever they are punished.

starviewadams

I'm a Liverpool fan and I'd agree with the article linked in post #4210.

flahavaj

Mr Alan wrote: »

Flah, remember you used to be a decent poster?

Those were the days

Remember when LFC were a decent club?

Those were the days.