Can we talk firearms [READ Mod posts 10 & 12]?

krissovo

Just posing the question if we can discuss firearms in this forum? Not general "shooting" topics but with a reference to survival requirements and respecting the firearms of Ireland.

Tabnabs

If it falls within the law then yes, if any post is in anyway shape or form outside the law, trolling or general muppetry then the post will be deleted, the thread closed and the poster will receive an infraction. This is not the USA, we have very strict and clear laws regarding firearms, knives and all other offensive weapons so let's be sensible and grown up about the subject.

meathstevie

I suppose we all know the capabilities of firearms and from a survival point of view a firearm is probably the most efficient way to get a good quantity of fresh meat if needs be.

As for other uses, in Irish society as it is civilians are only given permission to use and posess firearms for limited and clearly described purposes, being :
hunting, target shooting, pest control and humane destruction of animals
( mainly vets only ). And since the trumpets of the Apocalypse haven't sounded yet that's the way it'll stay for a good while to come.

Delancey

Interesting that in many Post Apocalyptic movies or dramas shotgun ammunition was one of the most prized items and an unofficial currency.
Having a firearm/s and a good ammo supply would be a very important part of survival though this being Ireland it's just not realistic for many people.

kildare.17hmr

ah the movies, always great for inaccurate facts about guns. Shotgun ammo is heavy and bulky, if you were moving on foot and were loaded up with it you would not have much room for anything else! A shotgun would be handy in disaster survival situation but id pick my rifle over my shotgun any day if i couldn't bring both! I could carry alot more rifle cartridges and hunt bigger animals from alot further away

Grizzly 45

Always get a howl out of those massive firefights in these films!:D:D
Especially the hero picking off bad guys with a pistol at crazy distances.Pistol shooting is a quickly lost skill[as I found out yet again after a week absence on the range!:(] Unless you practise at least one a month,you wont hit jack.So how will you do this post end of the World???:rolleyes:

Ammo will be a very prized possession and proably as valuable ,if not more so than gold.Not just for its food procurement,defence capability[providing you have the right gun for it too],but for its bartering capability.
It is small,easily transported, of great value,and rare. IOW a perfect alternative to money which when it was of some redeemable value years ago.
In Germany post war,ciggs were a currency,as in post Soviet Union collapse Russia,as they are in any jail in the world.But you would hardly find anyone smoking them,if they did suffer from the noxious weed addiction,they were smoking old rope,or dock leaves or whatever,but not packs of Malboros or Lucky Strikes.

Think how much a deck of Malboros would be worth to a heavy smoker in a shortage.Lucky you if you dont smoke or drink heavily,as your bartering goods might be a few bottles of Jack Daniels and a few bars of Camels,and maybe a few 50 boxes of .22ammo.:)

Nor would you want to engage too much in gunfights in a TEOTWAKI situation,which I belive is also why the "Wild West" wasnt so wild as made out by Hollywood!Yeah!!! Limited ,or no medical treatment in hospitals,or the next doctor is a few days away by horse ,if you are lucky.Gunshot wounds are bad enough to deal with in a nice clean modern normal day hospital with a trauma team to hand.
BUT
Imagine if the place is overrun with the injured and dead,filthy floors,staff and total overcrowding,triage is the order of the day,and a general anastehic, if you are lucky is a shot of rotgut homebrew vodka and a stick in your gob to bite on,while the surgeon grapples in your stomach for that.22 bullet with a leatherman pliers!!

I reckon even the lowly .22 sport rifle or pistol would be somthing to be feared of getting hit by.Small ,accurate debilitating a slow killer if filled with somthing nasty and deadly if hit in the right place.The Russians learned to fear Chechnyan snipers with this little gun in Grozny as it did unnerve them in the injuries it caused. If it did that to battle hardned troops,imagine what it would do to some looters who were stupid enough to try grabbing your stuff,and now have their hardman leader screaming and dying very slowly as he has a gutshot from a dumdum round??

Grizzly 45

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

ah the movies, always great for inaccurate facts about guns. Shotgun ammo is heavy and bulky, if you were moving on foot and were loaded up with it you would not have much room for anything else! A shotgun would be handy in disaster survival situation but id pick my rifle over my shotgun any day if i couldn't bring both! I could carry alot more rifle cartridges and hunt bigger animals from alot further away

Ah but the shotgun is proably the most versitile gun in that it can fire a diverse amount of different loads depending on the situation.:)
From relatively accurate slugs that can reach out and touch from a greater distance than a handgun,to rubber buckshot pelltts in a less leathl situation and everything inbetween.
Its also alot easier to learn and shoot than a rifle,as it is a gun that launches a swarm of submissiles with one shot,so somthing is going to get hit in the pattern.A rifle requires aiming ,a shotgun requires pointing!:)
12Ga ammo,is proably next to the .22LR,and AK 7.62X39 round the most common round on the planet.You will find it in Ireland or Israel so you will proably find shells alot quicker than rifle ammo.
Also shotguns for some reason are the last guns a gungrabbing Govt or despot goes after.maybe they dont consider a double barrel a formidable fighting weapon??:rolleyes::rolleyes:But just look at Ireland and the UK.post Dunblane and Hungerford,the pistols and semi rifles and certain types of shotgun went on the banned list.Ditto Ireland post 1972,all big calibre rifles and handguns went into tempoary custody of 35 years..Yet shotguns were left alone.

<snip>
[mod] Advice of how to alter or DIY weaponry is not allowed [/mod]

alanmcqueen

The ability of the shotgun to engage stationary and moving or flying targets, its simplicity - particularly a single barrel - and its variety of ammunition types to deal with almost any type of game certainly indicate it is an ideal survival weapon.
The notion of limiting the choice to one type of gun will always produce an interesting debate. Rifles are 'the' tool in many instances but I'm with the shottie if one is the limit:cool:

garv123

After seen zombieland the other night a pump action with short barrel and pistol grip is the best option for surviving zombies since it has a unlimited supply of shells :rolleyes:

I'd go for the rifle myself since it has a better range and ammo takes up alot less room.

Tabnabs

MOD WARNING

I'm going to ask one last time, discuss this subject within the bounds of the law or it will be closed. If there is even a whiff of illegality, the persons responsible shall receive infractions and/or be banned.

Last chance.

Grizzly 45

@Tabnabs
Fair enough.But could you please let us know what topics in the firearms categories are off limits??
is DIY /improvised off limits?by how much?? Posting plans,websites etc?
Home defence?
Right To Keep and Bear Arms topics?
less leathl weaponary?
Bows ,Xbows etc.
How about when we get around to survival knives and other sharp pointy things??That is a CORE discussion point on survival groups,posting pics of same?

There has to be a little bit more leeway on this as otherwise we might as well refer anything re shooting over to the shooting section,which kills any of the above topics right off.Or back to zombie survival where all this stuff is non OT.
IOW can we have some specifics not to be talked about in the charter??

Also I would put possibly a major disclaimer in that any info given here in posts is for INFORMATION and ACADEMIC study only!! And that certain info can only be used in a REAL survival situation or where life and limb is at risk.
[EG,setting snares or building a deadfall trap.Deadfall traps are illegal here under current legislation,as is setting a snare for deer,but if you were stuck in Canada after a plane crash for a few days would anyone object.]

And that all readers by using this forum absolve the poster,Boards.ie,etc etc,of all legal responsibility for wrong info.

Just my suggestions.
Grizz

Tabnabs

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

@Tabnabs
Fair enough.But could you please let us know what topics in the firearms categories are off limits??

Very, very simple, if it falls outside of Irish law according to the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act, 1990 it will not be allowed discussion here.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

is DIY /improvised off limits?by how much?? Posting plans,websites etc?

In the sense of in your garage without telling the Gardai - is strictly illegal, this forum should not be used as a source to promote or disperse any such information.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Home defence?

You cannot have a firearm in Ireland for home defence. The licence won't be issued and if you lie to get the licence, it's an offence under the Act.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Right To Keep and Bear Arms topics?

There is no such right under Irish law and therefore is a topic more suitable for debate in the political forum.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

less leathl weaponary?

Again, this is clearly laid out in the 1990 act. And it's one of those bits of Irish law that says you're guilty until you prove yourself innocent in court. Discussion can only be permitted if it falls within the law.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Bows ,Xbows etc.

Bows are sports kit under the law - treated the same as hurleys. Get caught walking down the high street with one and the Garda can arrest you on the spot under the 1990 Act and you're back proving your innocence in court.
Crossbows are legally restricted firearms in Ireland and need to be licenced by the Chief Superintendent.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

How about when we get around to survival knives and other sharp pointy things??That is a CORE discussion point on survival groups,posting pics of same?

Again, you're back to the 1990 Act. Not illegal to own, but you can be stopped on the street and arrested for carrying one

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

There has to be a little bit more leeway on this as otherwise we might as well refer anything re shooting over to the shooting section,which kills any of the above topics right off.Or back to zombie survival where all this stuff is non OT.

With respect, there cannot be any leeway at all. The law is clear and concise and there is an obligation on Boards.ie to adhere to it. There is no freedom of speech on a privately owned internet forum. Boards.ie don't make these laws, but must abide be them regardless.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Also I would put possibly a major disclaimer in that any info given here in posts is for INFORMATION and ACADEMIC study only!! And that certain info can only be used in a REAL survival situation or where life and limb is at risk.
[EG,setting snares or building a deadfall trap.Deadfall traps are illegal here under current legislation,as is setting a snare for deer,but if you were stuck in Canada after a plane crash for a few days would anyone object.]

And that all readers by using this forum absolve the poster,Boards.ie,etc etc,of all legal responsibility for wrong info.

Again, with respect, that's not a matter for an individual to decide. Your disclaimer may not be sufficient should a legal action be taken and therefore caution must always be advised when broaching these topics.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Just my suggestions.
Grizz

And please keep them coming, but also remember that Irish law and society is very different to most other jurisdictions. Just because survivalistboards.com (for example) is discussing the virtues of the AK47 doesn't mean we can do the same here

tricky D

Tabnabs wrote: »

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Home defence?

You cannot have a firearm in Ireland for home defence. The licence won't be issued and if you lie to get the licence, it's an offence under the Act.

A bit curious about this one. A relation of mine was issued one by the Gardai in days before 1990 after his name was found on a certain organisation's list. Has this changed since or is it something slightly different like self-defence as opposed to home defence or something else?

/wondering

Cass

You are thinking of a different sort of defence. This is when a personal protection firearm is issued to a person by An Gardai. They are not publicised, and it is only done when the person is under the threat of death from a person/group/organisation.

If you as an ordinary member of the public want a rifle/shotgun or pistol and when asked claim its "incase someone breaks into my house" then thats illegal. Also as concealed carry, and open carry of firearms are either illegal or not permitted (depending on the scenario/situation) this is also an arrestable offence.

The fact is there is no right to firearm ownership in Ireland. It is not a given. We must prove that the reason for wanting a particular firearm is valid and legal. These, as sid above, fall under a small category being hunting, vermin, target/sports related. Anything outside of this is simply not permissable.

So in short you cannot have a firearm in Ireland for self defence/home defence. If you apply for a firearm for ths reason it will be refused. If you lie to get a firearm ffor this purpose its an offence for lying on an official document. The people that may have a personal firearm for their protection are few and far between, and they are issued them by An Gardai. They do not apply for them. These instances are rare, and in current climate most likely not needed as much or at all.

Victor

tricky D wrote: »

A bit curious about this one. A relation of mine was issued one by the Gardai in days before 1990 after his name was found on a certain organisation's list. Has this changed since or is it something slightly different like self-defence as opposed to home defence or something else?

/wondering

The number of people (Garda and Defence Forces aside) reputed to be licenced weapons for self protection is in the order of 5. Even up North, where huge numbers were licenced to have personal protection weapons, former police and soldiers have difficulty getting licenced on personal protection grounds.

I don't think there is any material difference in personal protection and home defence. You will never be licenced to have a firearm to protect you widescreen TV.

meathstevie

Folks, when it comes to self defence issues I suggest you all go and familiarise yourselfs with the concepts of justifiable, proportionate and reasonable at the time the event happened and you should be perfectly capable of answering your own question from there.

Bottom line is that you have an absolute right to life and whatever actions you undertake to defend your life from potential threats can and in most cases will come under scrutiny in the courts who will decide if you acted lawfully or not. There's no point speculating and bouncing scenarios around as each and every real event has been and will be different.

Sticky_Fingers

More amendments to the 1990 Firearms and Offensive Weapons Acts, please read:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1991/en/si/0066.html

I'm also going to sticky this thread so that it is visible to everyone visiting the forum.

Grizzly 45

In the sense of in your garage without telling the Gardai - is strictly illegal, this forum should not be used as a source to promote or disperse any such information.

Ok well then in the sense of "this is a homemade firearm,this is how it is put together.It is illegal to do so under Irish firearms laws BAR if you are a gun dealer or gunsmith and have the revelant liscenses to manufacture and/or posses this item". This site outside Ireland has such information for academic and study purposes only." Or this book company deals with this sort of info..would that fit??
Reason I'm asking is simply a lot of survivalist authors books cover a whole sections of improv weaponary,and it will be hard if anyone does a book review and has a section on improv weaponary.Do we now censor the book and say X author or book company cant be discussed anymore as they have those subjects in stock???

You cannot have a firearm in Ireland for home defence. The licence won't be issued and if you lie to get the licence, it's an offence under the Act.

Am well aware as a gun owner of the Irish firearms statues in and out and what is or is not legal!!Not to mind having fought two court cases to retain ownership of a semi rifle and handgun!!

And as has been mentioned in other posts that isnt quite strictly true either.And there have been more issued than a mere 5 in the last few years too!Try more up around 50 plus!!And ,as usual in Ireland,all animals are equal,just some are more equal than others!!

There is no such right under Irish law and therefore is a topic more suitable for debate in the political forum.

So no discussion of court cases that ultimately affect us by Irish politicans taking their cue from "American Gun culture" and not wanting it here??? :rolleyes:
Or victorious firearms cases in which a firearm was used to defend oneself in Irish courts??Of which there are a few.

Again, this is clearly laid out in the 1990 act. And it's one of those bits of Irish law that says you're guilty until you prove yourself innocent in court. Discussion can only be permitted if it falls within the law.

So can reports in the media be discussed of people bering charged and convicted using such?Keeping in mind the comment on ongoing court cases ban of boards.ie?? Which boards lawyers are taking their sweet time on commenting wether this is legal or not BTW??

Crossbows are legally restricted firearms in Ireland and need to be licenced by the Chief Superintendent.

Err Yess.But can the merits of such model vs scuh model be discussed.??We dont all always spend ALL of our time in Ireland and some of us do hunt in more enlightned countries without such silly restictions.

Again, you're back to the 1990 Act. Not illegal to own, but you can be stopped on the street and arrested for carrying one

Can we discuss them,put up pics of them,test reports etc???Not wether we can carry them in public.

With respect, there cannot be any leeway at all. The law is clear and concise and there is an obligation on Boards.ie to adhere to it. There is no freedom of speech on a privately owned internet forum. Boards.ie don't make these laws, but must abide be them regardless.

So really said folks..Back over to the shooting boards for any firearms info,ownership legality of or not here. There would be no sense in virtually duplicating two boards with the same restrictions on both.:(

BTW the Irish law does not prevent anyone from discussing,debating or otherwise censoring a topic.It would and has happened before and Ireland was dragged to the EU courts on this matter where it lost[That was the right to abortion info in the 80s]
It prohibits using or diseminating that information for illegal purposes!!

EG IOW you can watch videos on lockpicking,make your own lockpicking tools, posses them within your own 4 walls practise lockpicking on your own personal locks and padlocks ,chat to others on a internet group about the merits of a raker Vs a snap pick.But were you to be found on somone elses property trying to open their front door or their bike lock,you will be done logically and rightly for attempted burglary.Or flogging those kits to all and sundry or teaching them knowingly that they will comit an illegal act.
Whats the difference on certain topics being discussed here on survivalism??

But if Boards.ie legal dept is quaking in their Guccis,and making smelly Mars bars in their Armani jockeys about being sued for anything that some sub intelligent muppett might do with info here,that any rational adult should be able to use in a legal and non criminal way... So be it!:rolleyes:

Again, with respect, that's not a matter for an individual to decide. Your disclaimer may not be sufficient should a legal action be taken and therefore caution must always be advised when broaching these topics.

OK,Well in that case there is going to be a whole range of topics we cant discuss then as there is too great an inherent risk in them leagal wise and personal injury wise.
Apart from firearms,we'd have to pull

Alternative medicines,[Cant mention herbalism or St Johns wort then either] somone might poision themselves or dose themselves with out of date antibiotics

Hunting with traps and snares or bow and sling hunting[might contravene the wildlife act]
Survival fishing
Survival radio and comms[might contravene the radio and telegraphy act]
Survival vechicle modifications [road saftey act and NCT]
Evasive /defensive driving [" " " " "]
Alternative power sources,alternative vechicle fuels[might do in the revenue by cheating on them,another boards no no]
Alternative shelter temp or permanent [might violate building and planning codes]
Making vital chemicals in a survival situation [somone might eat the damn thing!]
Distress signalling[somone might consider it a lark to call out the SAR on a bogus call]
TBH WHAT will we be left with?? As every survival self suffienct topic could fall foul of somone acting an idiot with it.

Reason I'm being a pain in the ass about this is not because I like arguing with Mods[contary to some MODs opinion on the other boards!:)] so we can get a proper guideline set up from the start and know how far or on what we can post about,while keeping this in a revelant context to the boards name!Trouble is too,a lot of survival subjects can cross over into the not legal here ,but perfectly legal everywhere else terrain..Where do we as posters draw the line??

Just an example Silencers and suppressors.While they are used here for silent sport hunting of deer and rabbits only ,their technology and advancement in their designs comes from the military and law enforcement fields,which crosses over in development in and with civillian research into these designs as well...It is an impossibility to discuss this topic without bringing in references from either military and LE sources to make it revelant and logical or discussing them in a purely sporting context.There have been major dingdongs and infractions aplenty on the shooting boards about topics like this.
Point I'm trying to make is we might have to go more OT into areas that we cant really discuss but need to to make the revelant arguement or post revelant.If you know what I mean?

And please keep them coming, but also remember that Irish law and society is very different to most other jurisdictions

Aint that a FACT????:rolleyes:


. Just because survivalistboards.com (for example) is discussing the virtues of the AK47 doesn't mean we can do the same here

But we can discuss the AK47 in all its glory..Just cant tell anyone where to go and buy or aquire one,or heres the plans in PDF to build one if you happen to have a vertical milling machine and lathe in the garden shed and eight years in engineering and tool making experiance.
In which case you are more than competant in proably building your own SMG design anyway;)
And it would be nice to be able to discuss non sporting firearms once inawhile too in an Irish context.:)
Sermon over:D:D
Grizz

Tabnabs

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So really said folks..Back over to the shooting boards for any firearms info,ownership legality of or not here. There would be no sense in virtually duplicating two boards with the same restrictions on both.

[mod] A very wise suggestion Grizzly 45 and I agree with you. We have a shooting forum run by a team of highly experienced and informed mods. All subjects pertaining to firearms and hunting are probably best posted there. [/mod]

kildare.17hmr

a hunting tips sticky would prob be handy here tho, tips for preparing hunted food for eating and tips for hunting, snares, shooting ect? It is relivent to the forum and if its kept to questions and answers with no stories like you would find in the Hunting section i think it would work well

slowburner

+1 for the hunting tips.
I can think of lots of questions I would like to ask those in the know about these things here rather than spending ages Googling. Here's one - should rabbit be eaten fresh or hung for a period?

Grizzly 45

Fresh,if you are short on the old refigeration.I'd put that down for any meat in a survival situation.You hang hares,but not too long either.

BTW on survival guns.
Maybe a bit on guns built specifically for food procurement in a survival situation.
IE the AR7 or Savage over/under rifle shotgun combo might be of intrest in the fact they were built as food procurement type arms ,not for self defence etc from the word go.
Maybe stories on how did those that have them get liscensed ,and how did they find them for hunting in an Irish context??

fodda

Hanging meat theory:)

When we had no medicines etc and supposidly little knowledge of diseases did people always hang meat to make sure all of the parasites on the animal were dead and any dodgy diseases in the animal were also dead so there was no chance of catching anything from the meat you were eating?

kildare.17hmr

i dont hang anything i shoot, i gut rabbits in the field and skin them back at home and put them straight in the freezer or cook them, same with ducks and pigeons

Grizzly 45

slowburner wrote: »

Sometimes I pull the trigger too hard on the O/U and fire both barrels simultaneously - can you imagine what I'd be like with of those combi guns :eek:

I have my grandfathers Drilling[German for a SXS dbbl and large cal single shot rifle barrel underneath .About the most versatile hunting survival gun ever made] That has a nasty habit of doing such.Mostly because it is over 100 years old and the frame is made out of aluminium so a century of wear and tear has pretty much renderd it retired. IOW like your O/U there is somthing mechanically defective with it.Off to a gunsmith with it.:)

Seriously, though, I would plump for the shotgun over the rifle 99% of the time. I was brought up with shotguns, so I'm biased.

So was I,although I realise the merits of both.

Flying birds are not suitable or safe for the rifle. For targets that need a bigger impact you could always stalk with the shotgun.

Not here you cant,unless it is post SHTF and slugs are available and you can get into 40 meters of it.

<snip>

The rifle needs time to aim and the target has to be stationary.

Practise,I've dropped running deer and wild boar with a rifle no problem.
Shot my last running deer this last Sept via a mildot scope.:)

The shotgun is intuitive, it shoots where you point it, fast and with room for error. And you can use it in the dark.
The only advantage I see of the rifle is that with a silencer and good field craft, there is the possibility of bagging more ground game.

<snip>

Reason I like the O/U shotgun rifle combo is it is versatile.The drilling moreso.In fact it is the original survival gun,as they were issued to the German Luftwaffe in small amounts in ww2.

A double barrel[one of the original fighting shotguns],with the left tube set to shoot slugs accuratly to 100 meters.A big 9.3 cal[or whatever you are having yourself] rifle barrel under it,capable of dropping everything from elephants to roe deer and capable of reaching out further than the slugs.
Add a QD picitinny rail mount for a red dot or scope ,you have a close range shotgun or long range rifle.Add a sub calibre device IE a 12 GA shell that has a longish barrel,that fires a .22 centrefire or rimfire bullet from the left barrel and you are sorted for bunnies.
A trap door butstock magazine that holds 5 big cal rifle shells,the whole thing made in stainless steel and high impact plastic and you would have INMHO an exellent all round survival hunting /foraging gun.

Only reason it is not made like that is the cost!They are hideously expensive in getting the barrells sweated that the left upper and rifle barrel are zeroed in,and as most of these are made to the shooters wish,they are custom artworks designed to be used.
Hence we have to make do with Savage Arm s offerings of a single shot from both rifle and shotgun.

Delancey

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

a hunting tips sticky would prob be handy here tho, tips for preparing hunted food for eating and tips for hunting, snares, shooting ect? It is relivent to the forum and if its kept to questions and answers with no stories like you would find in the Hunting section i think it would work well

While the discussion of the trapping and killing of animals for food in a survival situation seems very appropriate to a Survival forum I think we need to keep in mind that there are laws relating to this activity.
I would also be concerned that some idiot would go out and needlessly ( and possibly illegally ) trap animals.

As I understand it some types of traps / snares are illegal and perhaps the mods may have an opinion on this type of discussion ?

Sticky_Fingers

Right guys, I've edited some posts because they contained legally questionable content. Any more discussion on the use of firearms as personal protection and/or to scare off intruders will not be tolerated, this includes "what if" or hypothetical scenarios.

Any more of this and infractions/bans will be issued.

Grizzly 45

Delancey wrote: »

While the discussion of the trapping and killing of animals for food in a survival situation seems very appropriate to a Survival forum I think we need to keep in mind that there are laws relating to this activity.
I would also be concerned that some idiot would go out and needlessly ( and possibly illegally ) trap animals.

As I understand it some types of traps / snares are illegal and perhaps the mods may have an opinion on this type of discussion ?

@Mods my observations on this FWIW ...

Guys you WILL have to make some decisions on topics here.
As I pointed out before you WILL have contentious problems with the following;

Firearms in an Irish context
Hunting with traps and snares or bow and sling hunting[might contravene the wildlife act]
Survival fishing [might contravene the fishing and Wildlife act
]Survival radio and comms[might contravene the radio and telegraphy act]
Survival vechicle modifications [road saftey act and NCT]
Evasive /defensive driving [" " " ]
Alternative power sources,alternative vechicle fuels
[might do in the revenue by cheating on them,another boards no no]
Alternative shelter temp or permanent
[might violate building and planning codes]
Making vital basic chemicals in a survival situation
Distress signalling
[somone might consider it a lark to call out the SAR on a bogus call.

Now the thing is you cant say we cant discuss it on a internet site,[as in snaring &trapping]as this information is already out there in print in the public domain and has been for many years.Ditto for any info on shooting as well,there are a plethora of written books freely available on the topicsof home defence etc as well.But lets not go there on this topic.

Snareing and trapping is coverd in the SAS survival manual ,and all they put in is a disclaimer about using this info in a survival situation and to check local laws on this too.So are we to be held responsible because some di"khead goes out and tries somthing because he read it on the interweb.When he could have just as easily read it off paper??

If we get rid of a load of survival topics,all we will be here is a glorified bushcraft chat group,that is afraid to discuss aload of topics for legal reasons and policy ,that could be freely discussed on the Zombie survival group as surviving post Zombie apocalypse as everyone knows Zombies dont exist!
I mean how many discussions on the best Zombie killing weapon have there been,on defending your retreat from Z's,making your own fuel,traps and whatnot etc.Change Z's for looters and whats the difference??

Soo in fairness then THREE seperate boards would have to abide on all of the above rules Re firearms,explosives etc.Shooting,Zombie survival and survivalism and self suffiency.Sauce for the goose and all that...

But at as loss to boards.ie as everyone who will want to discuss these in a rational and responsible adult manner will emigrate to other chat groups where this is handled without total fear of wrong doing or litigation.:(

Its kind of the situation of the girl who wanted to engage in a sexual act while still wearing her under garments.:rolleyes: Either we do it up to a certain point [Which HAS to be clearly defined by the mods on all topics on the three boards] or we dont do the topics at all.Simples !!

kildare.17hmr

Grizzly is right, if this forum is to work we need to be able to discuss these things that are needed in tough survial situations, if people want to practice trapping go buy some snares and catch some rabbits, they are on sale in most hunting shops and its great fun and taches you alot about animals movements and habbits and will teach you skills you will use if ever in a situation where laws are out the window and the only thing is survive and eat what ever you can catch.

Easons cant be sued for selling the SAS handbook which covers everything, likewise here. its for educational purposas and information

Hibrion

fodda wrote: »

Hanging meat theory:)

When we had no medicines etc and supposidly little knowledge of diseases did people always hang meat to make sure all of the parasites on the animal were dead and any dodgy diseases in the animal were also dead so there was no chance of catching anything from the meat you were eating?

Meat is hung to make it more tender and/ or make the taste less string and gamy.

Before refrigeration 'cold rooms' were used for this.

In some cases ice was used to keep them cold, in other cases they were just external sheds that were orientated to the north and well insulated.

In urban areas, a room in the middle of the house and if possible in the basement can be used.

Wrapping the carcass in muslin is a good way to keep the nasties off of it while you do this.

Sticky_Fingers

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

@Mods my observations on this FWIW ...

Guys you WILL have to make some decisions on topics here.
As I pointed out before you WILL have contentious problems with the following;

Don't worry Grizzly we will be making decisions shortly but it is indeed a fine line that we have to walk. As the mods of this forum we have to serve two masters, we want this forum to be as informative and interesting as possible for you the members but we also have a duty to protect Boards.ie from any possible legal action that may result from the information posted here.

As such I'll try and address some of the questions you've asked. Please note that these are provisional guidelines and may be subject to change once the mods have discussed the issues further. As such please use common sense when posting about certain subjects, if you would not be willing to stand in front of a Guard or a Judge and say the exact same thing then perhaps it is better left unsaid here on Boards.

Firearms in an Irish context

This subject is already well catered for by the Shooting forum. Any discussion of firearms should be posted there.

There are very strict laws and regulations relating to the ownership and the use of firearms in Ireland and we must abide by those laws. The guys in the Shooting forums will be able to help with any firearms related queries posters have and will keep everything on the right side of the law.

Hunting with traps and snares or bow and sling hunting[might contravene the wildlife act]
Survival fishing [might contravene the fishing and Wildlife act

These are sticky ones, it is a broad subject matter where currently certain forms of hunting/trapping are allowed whist others are not. I would prefer if any discussion was conducted in the Hunting forum but as it stands at the moment the discussion of hunting/trapping techniques will be allowed under strict supervision. Please note that this does not give posters carte blanc to post whatever they like or to get around rules governing other forums on this site, if a post contravenes the Hunting laws then that poster will be infracted/banned. Remember, if you are not willing to post it in the Hunting forum then don't post it here.

Please note that the above will more than likely be subject to change once the mods have had a chance to discuss the issue further.

]Survival radio and comms[might contravene the radio and telegraphy act]

Walkie talkies and the like are fine, talk away freely but anything that requires a license will be better posted in the Hobby Radio forum. You will get far more infomative and knowledgable responses there on this topic.

Survival vechicle modifications [road saftey act and NCT]

Personally I cannot see any issues arising from this discussion so chat away as long as all mods are road legal.

Evasive /defensive driving [" " " ]

Common sense here people, discussion will be allowed as long as it does not advocate putting yourself or others at risk. Also any post suggesting activities that break the rules of the road will be infracted/banned.

Alternative power sources,alternative vechicle fuels
[might do in the revenue by cheating on them,another boards no no]

Discussion of this topic is allowed. Trouble will arise however if anyone advocates using alternative fuel/biodiesel as a way to power a vehicle on the public roads.

Alternative shelter temp or permanent
[might violate building and planning codes]

I don't see a problem with this, however any talk or discussion advocating or discussing how to evade planning laws will be frowned upon.

Making vital basic chemicals in a survival situation

As long as said chemical is not illegal then I see no problem with that. However anyone who posts ingredients/recipes for explosives/drugs or other controlled substances will be banned.

Distress signalling
[somone might consider it a lark to call out the SAR on a bogus call.

Yes, allowed and heartily encouraged. This is what this forum is supposed to be about. However if any idiot suggests mucking about and wasting the time of the emergency services by making bogus calls/signals they will be banned. I think we can all agree on that.

Now the thing is you cant say we cant discuss it on a internet site,[as in snaring &trapping]as this information is already out there in print in the public domain and has been for many years.Ditto for any info on shooting as well,there are a plethora of written books freely available on the topicsof home defence etc as well.But lets not go there on this topic.

It may be in the public domain and accessible to all but since most of those sites are hosted outside of this jurisdiction they are not subject to Irish law unlike Boards.ie.

Snareing and trapping is coverd in the SAS survival manual ,and all they put in is a disclaimer about using this info in a survival situation and to check local laws on this too.So are we to be held responsible because some di"khead goes out and tries somthing because he read it on the interweb.When he could have just as easily read it off paper??

I highlighted the important bit, the mods are not trying to be killjoys here and stifle all discussion but we cannot ignore the law of the land. As for the SAS Survival Guide being available in shops you can bet that the publishers have a team of lawyers who vet and ok everything and are capable of mounting a stern legal defense if an issue ever arises. Boards.ie does not have this luxury and thus we must be more careful when it comes to these matters.

If we get rid of a load of survival topics,all we will be here is a glorified bushcraft chat group,that is afraid to discuss aload of topics for legal reasons and policy ,that could be freely discussed on the Zombie survival group as surviving post Zombie apocalypse as everyone knows Zombies dont exist!

I mean how many discussions on the best Zombie killing weapon have there been,on defending your retreat from Z's,making your own fuel,traps and whatnot etc.Change Z's for looters and whats the difference??

Soo in fairness then THREE seperate boards would have to abide on all of the above rules Re firearms,explosives etc.Shooting,Zombie survival and survivalism and self suffiency.Sauce for the goose and all that...

You said it yourself, the discussion in the Zombie Survival board deals with a fictional situation and every right thinking person knows that to be the case (no offense meant to the boys over in ZS).

This forum however deals with the real world and thus must be held to a higher legal standard since there is a possibility that something written here may actually be used by someone in the future.

But at as loss to boards.ie as everyone who will want to discuss these in a rational and responsible adult manner will emigrate to other chat groups where this is handled without total fear of wrong doing or litigation.:(

On the contrary I think that for those of us located in Ireland this forum is a golden opportunity to discuss these issues in a realistic and pragmatic way. Unlike most other websites dealing with this subject we can provide help and advice on Irish problems from an Irish perspective.

We need to accept the situation that for most Irish people any talk about guns and weapons is completely useless since they will have little to no access to such items. Thats not to say that all gun talk is banned on this site, I'm sure the guys over on the shooting forum will be able to help with any queries or questions. Remember, those guys are the gun "professionals" on boards and would be far more knowledge on the subject that anyone here.

mrbig

I don't think guns need be discussed here , wether talkin about hunting or what if home defense scenarios , those that have guns know what they can and can't be legally used for.

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=Sticky_Fingers;75043449]Don't worry Grizzly we will be making decisions shortly but it is indeed a fine line that we have to walk. As the mods of this forum we have to serve two masters, we want this forum to be as informative and interesting as possible for you the members but we also have a duty to protect Boards.ie from any possible legal action that may result from the information posted here.

As such I'll try and address some of the questions you've asked. Please note that these are provisional guidelines and may be subject to change once the mods have discussed the issues further. As such please use common sense when posting about certain subjects, if you would not be willing to stand in front of a Guard or a Judge and say the exact same thing then perhaps it is better left unsaid here on Boards.

Thanks for getting back to us SF.Just a few more pointers and POV to consider. As for standing in front of a gaurd/judge.Re posts..I have been in this situation because of a few posts of mine on the Z survival group and others on the shooting boards a few years ago,and it was a superintendant in limerick asking some intresting questions posed by the Dept of Justice Equality,etc etc C4 [criminal subversive and gunowner section:rolleyes:]
Cherry picked comments they were too ,taken out of context...
I told him exactly the same thing I am saying here.IF It is freely available information,has been in the public domain for years,is legal to learn and posses,but not to put into criminal misuse or for illegal purposes.The posts were about companies who provide info on improv weaponary and tactics.
Couldnt get much heavier than that.It is irrevelant wether it is in paper or electronic media form,it is nothing classified.

I heard nothing more of it,did no jail time or other penalty,and as far as I am aware Boards.ie its owners or Mods were not persecuted in any way by the Irish Govt ,AGS or other bodies,or at least I am not aware of it.

So been there, done it, bought the T shirt.Not that I advocate everyone does it.You are not all as mad as me.:D:D But what I am saying is,there is more leeway possibly than we think out there.

This subject is already well catered for by the Shooting forum. Any discussion of firearms should be posted there.
There are very strict laws and regulations relating to the ownership and the use of firearms in Ireland and we must abide by those laws. The guys in the Shooting forums will be able to help with any firearms related queries posters have and will keep everything on the right side of the law

.
So long as it is sporting shooting related:rolleyes:

These are sticky ones, it is a broad subject matter where currently certain forms of hunting/trapping are allowed whist others are not. I would prefer if any discussion was conducted in the Hunting forum but as it stands at the moment the discussion of hunting/trapping techniques will be allowed under strict supervision. Please note that this does not give posters carte blanc to post whatever they like or to get around rules governing other forums on this site, if a post contravenes the Hunting laws then that poster will be infracted/banned. Remember, if you are not willing to post it in the Hunting forum then don't post it here.

Ok,Test case.Re snaring.The only animals that can be legally snared here is a rabbit and fox and badger under dept of Ag liscense.Yet there are traps like deadfalls,that kill by crushing an animal or there is the possibility of using snares to catch deer.Neither of those techniques have any legal sporting purposes or can be used for vermin control so they would not be published on the hunting forum.Yet in a SURVIVAL situation they are possibly the most efficent way of gathering food.Also this is freely published and available info on paper. Can this kind of info with a disclaimer be published here??

Please note that the above will more than likely be subject to change once the mods have had a chance to discuss the issue further.
Walkie talkies and the like are fine, talk away freely but anything that requires a license will be better posted in the Hobby Radio forum. You will get far more infomative and knowledgable responses there on this topic

.

OK

Personally I cannot see any issues arising from this discussion so chat away as long as all mods are road legal.

Common sense here people, discussion will be allowed as long as it does not advocate putting yourself or others at risk. Also any post suggesting activities that break the rules of the road will be infracted/banned.

Discussion of this topic is allowed. Trouble will arise however if anyone advocates using alternative fuel/biodiesel as a way to power a vehicle on the public roads

.

Good,just on a point..Bio diesel is LEGAL to use on Irish roads.[Not WASHED diesel]Its not a recognised revenueable fuel at the moment.

I don't see a problem with this, however any talk or discussion advocating or discussing how to evade planning laws will be frowned upon.

Cool.:)

As long as said chemical is not illegal then I see no problem with that. However anyone who posts ingredients/recipes for explosives/drugs or other controlled substances will be banned.

Logical,good with that.

Yes, allowed and heartily encouraged. This is what this forum is supposed to be about. However if any idiot suggests mucking about and wasting the time of the emergency services by making bogus calls/signals they will be banned. I think we can all agree on that.

A given!

I highlighted the important bit, the mods are not trying to be killjoys here and stifle all discussion but we cannot ignore the law of the land. As for the SAS Survival Guide being available in shops you can bet that the publishers have a team of lawyers who vet and ok everything and are capable of mounting a stern legal defense if an issue ever arises.

You can be sure that if it is published in the UK,and the USA where they take poaching and illegal mucking about alot more seriously than we do.That it will stand up to any counter claim in the ROI.

Boards.ie does not have this luxury and thus we must be more careful when it comes to these matters.

AH!! We come to the nub!!! The legal dept is scared witless of anything that might befall Boards.ie! Well, hope they cut down things like modified cars and any other dangerous things in this life .

You said it yourself, the discussion in the Zombie Survival board deals with a fictional situation and every right thinking person knows that to be the case (no offense meant to the boys over in ZS).

This forum however deals with the real world and thus must be held to a higher legal standard since there is a possibility that something written here may actually be used by someone in the future.

Think you missed the point completly here..Just because it is FICTION does not mean it cannot be translated into FACT!! IOW while I might want to discuss how to set up mantraps with an improv claymore minefield made out of homebrew explosives,thats grand because its on the Zombie forum and thats fiction.It might be fiction but the process in reality is the really real thing..:rolleyes::rolleyes: Hate to say that this is a very IRISH way of looking at it.
Its the same with the combat shooting [or practical pistol/rifle/shotgun]Vs airsoft arguement here in Ireland.
An international sport is banned in Ireland because it uses real guns and might be used for combat training..YET I can buy a fully realistic replica assault rifle,genuine current military issue kit,a silencer for it, a nite vision scope,and pyrotechnics I can train with my buddies full military tactics of ambush ,counter ambush etc and mock up a " Storm the Dail and take the TDs hostage "or "shoot Prezident Mc Guinness" and thats fine as its"only people playing at grown up cowboys and indians" As described by a DOJ offical..:(:(:mad:

Hmmm..lets look at this I want to train up a terror cell to just do that above scenarios.I can kit them out in the "toys" and they can learn all the required drills to complete this mission and fight off our ERU /Rangers with their practised counter tactics.Nothing can be done to us as we were" only playing".Yet if I used one real gun or bullet we'd be banged up right away...
See my point?? We can discuss all the nasty stuff on Zombie survival no problem as it isnt true.But here we have to mind our P&Qs,as it "might" be abused.:rolleyes: So ,if say some deadhead makes an improv rocket launcher or mortar to get rid of his school because he read it on the Zombie survival forum that the info can be got from a certain book.Is Boards.IE defence going to be that it was only a fantasy thread????
Dont think thats going to work very well.
So maybe just maybe Boards.ie legal dept should look at that scenario as well??:rolleyes::rolleyes:


On the contrary I think that for those of us located in Ireland this forum is a golden opportunity to discuss these issues in a realistic and pragmatic way. Unlike most other websites dealing with this subject we can provide help and advice on Irish problems from an Irish perspective.

We need to accept the situation that for most Irish people any talk about guns and weapons is completely useless since they will have little to no access to such items.

Ohhh THATS abit of a sweeping generalisation!!!Seen how much of the illegal stuff is appearing in Ireland with drug shipments??Chances are they will be soon more illegal guns than legal guns in Ireland post 2018
Maybe not now,but post catastrophe there will be alot more knocking around than is currently belived.And I would consider that just maybe,basic gun saftey and handling of firearms should be in anyones head in modern society as a survival skill.I dont necessarily mean shooting them,but knowing how to make one safe and unloaded,and not all guns are the same.

Thats not to say that all gun talk is banned on this site, I'm sure the guys over on the shooting forum will be able to help with any queries or questions.

They will if it is related to a sporting topic..Not if whats better in a post SHTF scenario an AK or M16 type question.

Remember, those guys are the gun "professionals" on boards and would be far more knowledge on the subject that anyone here.[/QUOTE

I think you need to research my,and a couple of other names here posts over there friend!!;)Some of the experts are already here!!!:rolleyes:

Sticky_Fingers

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

[
Thanks for getting back to us SF.Just a few more pointers and POV to consider. As for standing in front of a gaurd/judge.Re posts..I have been in this situation because of a few posts of mine on the Z survival group and others on the shooting boards a few years ago,and it was a superintendant in limerick asking some intresting questions posed by the Dept of Justice Equality,etc etc C4 [criminal subversive and gunowner section:rolleyes:]
Cherry picked comments they were too ,taken out of context...
I told him exactly the same thing I am saying here.IF It is freely available information,has been in the public domain for years,is legal to learn and posses,but not to put into criminal misuse or for illegal purposes.The posts were about companies who provide info on improv weaponary and tactics.
Couldnt get much heavier than that.It is irrevelant wether it is in paper or electronic media form,it is nothing classified.

I heard nothing more of it,did no jail time or other penalty,and as far as I am aware Boards.ie its owners or Mods were not persecuted in any way by the Irish Govt ,AGS or other bodies,or at least I am not aware of it.

So been there, done it, bought the T shirt.Not that I advocate everyone does it.You are not all as mad as me.:D:D But what I am saying is,there is more leeway possibly than we think out there.

And this just goes to prove the point that this type of discussion needs a knowledgeable person modding. This is not me or Tabnabs, all discussion on firearms will be conducted over on the Shooting forum. As you said the DoJ looks at this site and while you may not have any problem with answering questions from the Guards relating to your posts the publishers of the information (Boards.ie) will not appreciate the possibility of being dragged into a legal wrangle.

So long as it is sporting shooting related:rolleyes:

They will if it is related to a sporting topic..Not if whats better in a post SHTF scenario an AK or M16 type question.

Seriously Grizzly, you are on very very thin ice here :mad:

Ok,Test case.Re snaring.The only animals that can be legally snared here is a rabbit and fox and badger under dept of Ag liscense.Yet there are traps like deadfalls,that kill by crushing an animal or there is the possibility of using snares to catch deer.Neither of those techniques have any legal sporting purposes or can be used for vermin control so they would not be published on the hunting forum.Yet in a SURVIVAL situation they are possibly the most efficent way of gathering food.Also this is freely published and available info on paper. Can this kind of info with a disclaimer be published here??

The honest answer is that I don't know, this is something that needs to be discussed further. I will get back to you on this once we make a decision. For the time being please err on the side of caution and keep the discussion to legal methods of hunting/trapping game.

Good,just on a point..Bio diesel is LEGAL to use on Irish roads.[Not WASHED diesel]Its not a recognised revenueable fuel at the moment.

I think you'll find that you need to pay revenue on any fuel used on the public roads.

You can be sure that if it is published in the UK,and the USA where they take poaching and illegal mucking about alot more seriously than we do.That it will stand up to any counter claim in the ROI.

The decision to publish that information is up to them, they and they alone face the legal consequences if anything was to go awry, not boards.ie.

AH!! We come to the nub!!! The legal dept is scared witless of anything that might befall Boards.ie! Well, hope they cut down things like modified cars and any other dangerous things in this life .

Finally I think you are getting the point. Boards.ie wants to avoid possible legal difficulties and are well within their rights to prevent any discussion that may create problems for them. Since it would be their neck in the noose as publisher can you really blame them.

Think you missed the point completly here..Just because it is FICTION does not mean it cannot be translated into FACT!! IOW while I might want to discuss how to set up mantraps with an improv claymore minefield made out of homebrew explosives,thats grand because its on the Zombie forum and thats fiction.

I think Zombie forum mods would strongly disagree with you there. They are not idiots and would issue a lengthy ban for posting such information. I'd also expect another knock on the door from the authorities tbh if you did post such a how to guide.

It might be fiction but the process in reality is the really real thing..:rolleyes::rolleyes: Hate to say that this is a very IRISH way of looking at it.

Its the same with the combat shooting [or practical pistol/rifle/shotgun]Vs airsoft arguement here in Ireland.
An international sport is banned in Ireland because it uses real guns and might be used for combat training..YET I can buy a fully realistic replica assault rifle,genuine current military issue kit,a silencer for it, a nite vision scope,and pyrotechnics I can train with my buddies full military tactics of ambush ,counter ambush etc and mock up a " Storm the Dail and take the TDs hostage "or "shoot Prezident Mc Guinness" and thats fine as its"only people playing at grown up cowboys and indians" As described by a DOJ offical.

Hmmm..lets look at this I want to train up a terror cell to just do that above scenarios.I can kit them out in the "toys" and they can learn all the required drills to complete this mission and fight off our ERU /Rangers with their practised counter tactics.Nothing can be done to us as we were" only playing".Yet if I used one real gun or bullet we'd be banged up right away...
See my point??

No I don't because if you were ever to even discuss anything like that on an open internet forum the Emergency Response Team would be kicking down your door in the morning.


Grizzly the ice is getting thinner and thinner...

We can discuss all the nasty stuff on Zombie survival no problem as it isnt true.But here we have to mind our P&Qs,as it "might" be abused.:rolleyes: So ,if say some deadhead makes an improv rocket launcher or mortar to get rid of his school because he read it on the Zombie survival forum that the info can be got from a certain book.Is Boards.IE defence going to be that it was only a fantasy thread????

If he did manage to construct the rocket launcher from the information posted on the ZS forum then Boards.ie would be in serious trouble. This however cannot happen because if such information was posted it would be removed by the mods, again they are not idiots.

Ohhh THATS abit of a sweeping generalisation!!!Seen how much of the illegal stuff is appearing in Ireland with drug shipments??Chances are they will be soon more illegal guns than legal guns in Ireland post 2018
Maybe not now,but post catastrophe there will be alot more knocking around than is currently belived.

And I would consider that just maybe,basic gun saftey and handling of firearms should be in anyones head in modern society as a survival skill.I dont necessarily mean shooting them,but knowing how to make one safe and unloaded,and not all guns are the same.

Knowledge that can be obtained over on the Shooting forums where people know what they are talking about and can provide accurate and reliable information.

Grizzly, I've answered your questions and laid out clearly what can and cannot be discussed (one or two thorny issues aside).

Please don't post anymore arguments about this forums policy on firearms no matter how much you disagree since nothing you say will change it.

The matter of firearms is now closed and no further posting on the subject will be tolerated.

If you have a problem with this decision then please take it to the Feedback forum it will not be entertained here and will result in an infraction.