Do we ignore animal cruelty to suit us?

It wasn't me!

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

Well in all fairness if they don't hunt and murder animals then they more thank likely are!

archer22 wrote: »

Well given that you run around looking for things to kill...I would say that you dont give a jot about animal welfare...nothing against you hunting to eat (even if it is by choice not need).But please dont insult our intelligence by claiming to be concerned about their welfare.

As another hunter, I'd like to stick my oar in and call bull**** on me not caring about animal welfare. If I didn't care, I'd never be upset at seeing populations starve in winter conditions without forage, or at a shot that doesn't result in a quick kill. I'd never bother my arse hunting all day for a wounded animal in order to effect a humane finish. I'd just shoot anything, rather than selecting older animals, or weaker animals. I wouldn't look for signs of nursing females and avoid shooting deer with young at heel. If I didn't care, hunting would be a lot simpler and, without the emotional investment, a lot less worthwhile. Those who don't do it will never know what it is. Those who do will never need to voice it to one another.

Oranage2

I think pigs are potrayed too much are a dirty ugly stupid animal who loves to roll around in its own crap

But look how smart they are

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrkIVsYuX4E

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

-Trek- wrote: »

I don't know, I haven't asked one. But its not like they are getting a choice in the matter anyway, but if it were you and me in that situation I think we might express some concern.

Of course we would, you will find it would cause us harm alot easier than an animal with a thick hide. Oh and we are human. Can't really compare the welfare of an animal to that of a human.

redzerologhlen

archer22 wrote: »

Have you given them questionaires to fill out?..

No but I have spent a lot more time around them then you I would imagine and going on their behaviour patterns it doesnt bother them. At least if you are going to respond try to point out a fact and dont use a silly one liner as an argument. It wont make anybody any wiser.

archer22

It wasn't me! wrote: »

As another hunter, I'd like to stick my oar in and call bull**** on me not caring about animal welfare. If I didn't care, I'd never be upset at seeing populations starve in winter conditions without forage, or at a shot that doesn't result in a quick kill. I'd never bother my arse hunting all day for a wounded animal in order to effect a humane finish. I'd just shoot anything, rather than selecting older animals, or weaker animals. I wouldn't look for signs of nursing females and avoid shooting deer with young at heel. If I didn't care, hunting would be a lot simpler and, without the emotional investment, a lot less worthwhile. Those who don't do it will never know what it is. Those who do will never need to voice it to one another.

"populations starve in winter conditions without forage" are you talking about Deer ?...I live in the country,actually have Deer on my land..never seen them starving without forage.So what do you do buy them bales of hay or drive a piece of lead through them?.Oh and you would not need to "look for a wounded animal all day" if you did not wound them in the first place...Doh!!. you wont shoot females with young at heel..how nice...but they usually leave their young hidden...tough sh1t in that case I suppose.And what use are the older and weaker animals to you unless you like eating skin and bones!!.Now maybe you can tell us another story maybe with leprechauns and fairies in it this time!!

Odysseus

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

Well in all fairness if they don't hunt and murder animals then they more thank likely are!

archer22 wrote: »

Well given that you run around looking for things to kill...I would say that you dont give a jot about animal welfare...nothing against you hunting to eat (even if it is by choice not need).But please dont insult our intelligence by claiming to be concerned about their welfare.

I don't know anything about your intelligence to insult, however, try reading my post; I provide food for my table. I do not run around looking for things to kill. When minds are closed like this I might as well be taking to someone with a psychosis. All people can see is their viewpoint, it's like most things when you come into contact with fundamentalism, i.e. I hunt so all I care about is killing, the possibility of a discussion goes out the window. All you know about me is that I like to put food on my own table by hunting, rather than buying it in the shop. Therefore, I could not have any interest in animal welfare.

ItsAWindUp

Odysseus wrote: »

I don't know anything about your intelligence to insult, however, try reading my post; I provide food for my table. I do not run around looking for things to kill. When minds are closed like this I might as well be taking to someone with a psychosis. All people can see is their viewpoint, it's like most things when you come into contact with fundamentalism, i.e. I hunt so all I care about is killing, the possibility of a discussion goes out the window. All you know about me is that I like to put food on my own table by hunting, rather than buying it in the shop. Therefore, I could not have any interest in animal welfare.

You make it sound like you'll starve to death if you don't kill these animals.

fatherted1969

ScumLord wrote: »

You basically repeated my point with more words.


your wrong, if any one of us was hungry enough we'd quite gladly rip the thing apart with our bare hands, us westerners just don't have to suffer that kind of hunger, count your self lucky. another thing is what exactly do you think would happen to all these cute cattle if we didn't eat them. They won't get squatters rights on the fields, there'll be no emancipation they'll all be slaughtered to make way for our crops that we'll need to eat. Domestic cattle need us to eat them or their screwed.

Check your original post again scumlord. You said they are all killed the same way, they're not. Halal and conventional slaughtering are completely different methods of killing an animal. You obviously dont know what your on about

Odysseus

It wasn't me! wrote: »

As another hunter, I'd like to stick my oar in and call bull**** on me not caring about animal welfare. If I didn't care, I'd never be upset at seeing populations starve in winter conditions without forage, or at a shot that doesn't result in a quick kill. I'd never bother my arse hunting all day for a wounded animal in order to effect a humane finish. I'd just shoot anything, rather than selecting older animals, or weaker animals. I wouldn't look for signs of nursing females and avoid shooting deer with young at heel. If I didn't care, hunting would be a lot simpler and, without the emotional investment, a lot less worthwhile. Those who don't do it will never know what it is. Those who do will never need to voice it to one another.

But the anti's will never see that, we are the bad men with guns who just kill for the sake of it. We will always be wrong no matter what, and you just can't engage with that type of mentality, not only do they believe the are totally right and are unwilling to see any other viewpoint, you often encounter significant moral superiority, not only are we wrong we are evil.

Or you get the viewpoint that hunter's are psychologically or emotionally damaged. Have a look at some of the threads in the animal welfare forum, you get the sense that some people believe that because they "love" animals and don't eat meat, that they have a special relationship with their pets or animals in general, it makes them special and superior to others. Those that haven't encountered this special relationship are lacking something; you could almost say that some believe they have evolved more than others. It is fascinating in one way, but it shuts out those who don't have that special type of empathy with animals.

To be fair that is at the extreme end of the scale and it would be grossly unfair to tar all the posters there with the same brush. A lot of them do excellent work with animals often in their own time and out of their own pocket. However, I personally don't feel I'm lacking anything either morally or ethically because I can't see a need to arrange a wedding for my pets as one poster was talking about the other night. Each to their own, but we can't all have the same opinions.

Laisurg

That video makes me want to dig a farmer in the face and kick him while he's down..... That methods not actually common practice is it?!

Odysseus

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

You make it sound like you'll starve to death if you don't kill these animals.

No but I do hunt for my table. That way I get good quality food, I know where it has come from, I know how fresh it is, and in these times I save myself a few euro. I'm not dependant on the local supermarket, and I help my local farming community, which is why they like me shooting on their land.

doctor evil

archer22 wrote: »

Well given that you run around looking for things to kill...I would say that you dont give a jot about animal welfare...nothing against you hunting to eat (even if it is by choice not need).But please dont insult our intelligence by claiming to be concerned about their welfare.

All creatures die eventually some are luckier than others in how they go.

I think a lot of people who are against hunting/meat have problems with squemishness/ignorance or they are very handy at compartmentalising.

ScumLord

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Check your original post again scumlord. You said they are all killed the same way, they're not. Halal and conventional slaughtering are completely different methods of killing an animal. You obviously dont know what your on about

I was talking about the Irish production line. They don't kill one cow with a bolt gun and the next halal. On a production line they are all killed the same way.

softmee

doctor evil wrote: »

All creatures die eventually some are luckier than others in how they go.

What a wise thing to say.. :rolleyes: It's like with us humans, we also have to die eventually, why we don't kill each other? :rolleyes:

It wasn't me!

softmee wrote: »

why we don't kill each other? :rolleyes:

We don't? News to me!

archer22

softmee wrote: »

What a wise thing to say.. :rolleyes: It's like with us humans, we also have to die eventually, why we don't kill each other? :rolleyes:

Bolt gun or Halal anyone ? or wounded with a rifle and chased around the countryside for a day...or hey chased with a pack of dogs and "humanely" torn to bits.Ahh the choices are endless.What a wonderfull world.

softmee

It wasn't me! wrote: »

We don't? News to me!

I meant "us", not in general

krudler

nature is cruel, animals can be cruel, presenting the killer whale, natures asshole

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELm8yRxAK9o

softmee

krudler wrote: »

nature is cruel, animals can be cruel, presenting the killer whale, natures asshole

I agree, thats why it is always annoying me how people are "overrating nature, by thinking in general that "natural" is better -not it isn't always..
-domestic dogs live longer then wolves, they get more nutrition, dont have parasites all life etc...

..so what?

We can do better then that.

softmee

krudler wrote: »

nature is cruel, animals can be cruel, presenting the killer whale, natures asshole

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wzD0U841LRM

pragmatic1

If we were meant to be vegetarians we wouldnt have canines and would likely have more than one stomach. As long as the animal has had a good enough life and is killed in a humane as possible way, I dont see the big issue.

Having said that, wouldnt eat foie gras, veal, battery chickens, etc.

Laisurg

Laisurg wrote: »

That video makes me want to dig a farmer in the face and kick him while he's down..... That methods not actually common practice is it?!

Why would you want to kick an animal?

That's pretty cruel... Whereas I'm yet to find out what's so wrong with what they did in the video?

pragmatic1

pragmatic1 wrote: »

If we were meant to be vegetarians we wouldnt have canines and would likely have more than one stomach. As long as the animal has had a good enough life and is killed in a humane as possible way, I dont see the big issue.

Having said that, wouldnt eat foie gras, veal, battery chickens, etc.

I agree. The killing of animals in the OP's video didn't distress me, but the thought of the lives of some animals out there (foie gras being pretty high up on the list) does.

softmee

true-or-false wrote: »

Whereas I'm yet to find out what's so wrong with what they did in the video?

Ok, I didnt want to watch this..but I have seen few seconds in the end after I've read your post and I seriously think there must be something really wrong with you if you think thats ok what they are doing.

Natural and normal reaction to something like this is shock and rejection.

Healthy and mature human beeing can feel something like empathy..if you don't you are just not fully developed human.. and I am scared of people like you -really!

softmee

pragmatic1 wrote: »

If we were meant to be vegetarians we wouldnt have canines and would likely have more than one stomach. As long as the animal has had a good enough life and is killed in a humane as possible way, I dont see the big issue.

Having said that, wouldnt eat foie gras, veal, battery chickens, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fYlzHvn4Oe8

krudler

softmee wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wzD0U841LRM

yes being made to watch a Lars Von Trier film does constitute cruelty :pac:

softmee

softmee wrote: »

I seriously think there must be something really wrong with you if you think thats ok what they are doing.

Natural and normal reaction to something like this is shock and rejection.

Healthy and mature human beeing can feel something like empathy..if you don't you are just not fully developed human.. and I am scared of people like you -really!

Well first of all, you have no business telling me how I should react to something which is clearly accepted by the majority of people. Nor do I appreciate you calling me an under-developed human being, so I'll be honest with you too.

I think you took a naive shock reaction to the video and want to jump on the "people are horrible" bandwagon (and also must be squeamish). Can you actually tell me what's wrong with it? They shot the animals in the brain, causing the animal to clearly collapse instantaneously and go unconscious, and they then made sure the brain was completely dead to ensure there was no chance the animal felt any pain. I don't know much about farming or killing, but it was clearly not for meat, it seemed more like culling due to disease etc., in which case it would have been an extremely distressing yet merciful way for the farmer to kill the animals, who had to die regardless of his choices.

Millicent

The thing is, as much as people want to say commercially slaughtered animals like those in the original video are distressed, they're not. Distress before death or on the way to slaughter affects the taste and quality of the meat. It's actually in slaughterhouses' interests to keep the animal as stress free as possible. So not necessarily an altruistic reason to have calm animals, but a good one from the perspectives of those doing the slaughtering.

softmee

true-or-false wrote: »

which is clearly accepted by the majority of people.

No its not, they just prefer not to see that and majority would be distressed by that!

Also, they weren't only shooting them in brain but screwing something what looked like wine bottle opened. Pure horror!
This isn't a "naive shock"- this is a normal reaction to something cruel.

Odysseus

softmee wrote: »

Natural and normal reaction to something like this is shock and rejection.

Healthy and mature human beeing can feel something like empathy..if you don't you are just not fully developed human.. and I am scared of people like you -really!

Can you back up this assumption with any type of study? I happen to know just a little bit about empathy since I'm a clinician. What you are coming out with here is just plain bullsh!t

Please post any real links you may have which stand over such a subjective viewpoint.

It upset me, so it has to upset others and be normal, therefore not being upset equal an under-developed subject. This is what you are saying, but I'm sorry to say the world does not work that way. If anything is pathological here, I'm sorry to say but it appears to be your distorted viewpoint of humanity.