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What Has Martin McGuinness Ever Done For The Republic of Ireland?

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    #902
    Tiocfaidh Armani
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭Tiocfaidh Armani


    maccored wrote: »
    please lay off with the highly inaccurate 'tribes' theory. its so far off the mark.

    Highlights the sheer ignorance of some people. Yet they love comment on something they have utter ignorance to. Laughable.


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    #903
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    maccored wrote: »
    please lay off with the highly inaccurate 'tribes' theory. its so far off the mark.

    Have you been to NI? Sectarianism (enshrined in the GFA of course) is tribalism - what else would you call it? To pretend that the crux of division in NI wasn't, and isn't, sectarianism is just delusional.


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    #904
    Tiocfaidh Armani
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭Tiocfaidh Armani


    alastair wrote: »
    Have you been to NI? Sectarianism (enshrined in the GFA of course) is tribalism - what else would you call it? To pretend that the crux of division in NI wasn't, and isn't, sectarianism is just delusional.

    To put it simply as sectarianism is simplistic in the extreme.


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    #905
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »
    To put it simply as sectarianism is simplistic in the extreme.

    To put what as sectarianism is simplistic? The primary social ill and division in NI is sectarianism - it has been for many many years.


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    #906
    cardwizzard
    Registered Users Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭cardwizzard


    old hippy wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong, I genuinely feel sorry for the victims in both tribes, in the same way that I feel sorry for the victims of any violence in any conflict but the 6 counties might as well be Rwanda to most Irish people.


    Are you trying to troll here. To equate the North to Rwanda is ridiculous. Tribes?:rolleyes: Come on try a bit harder than that.


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    #907
    Tiocfaidh Armani
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭Tiocfaidh Armani


    alastair wrote: »
    To put what as sectarianism is simplistic? The primary social ill and division in NI is sectarianism - it has been for many many years.

    Yeah nothing political about it. Okay, then.


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    #908
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »
    Yeah nothing political about it. Okay, then.

    The sectarianism puts the politics in the hal'penny place. There's a lot more apolitical people up north than non-sectarian people.


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    #909
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    The sectarianism puts the politics in the hal'penny place. There's a lot more apolitical people up north than non-sectarian people.

    Yea Alastair...if you can convince yourself that it is primarily sectarianism then that absolves you partitionists of blame.....pathetic.


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    #910
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    maccored wrote: »
    so instead of saying these things directly to whoever it is you are talking about - without the usual whataboutery and excuses - you just make generalisations? Great work there.

    I've addressed them already.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #911
    michael999999
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭michael999999


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    It was the IRA in the 50s in the boarder war.
    Did you get this information from the loyalist websites your so proud of posting on?

    How is "pulse" going these days, you still posting under the same name?


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    #912
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Can'tseeme wrote: »
    What a lazy, simplistic pov to have.

    It's a very important agreement. Something that offers a better future for my generation, for future generations and that puts in place a framework based on equality and the rights of all the people living in the north.

    Something you might take for granted in the free state but its something my parents and grandparents never had.

    ''the free state'' ? Talk about moving on !


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    #913
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    michael999999 wrote: »
    Did you get this information from the loyalist websites your so proud of posting on?

    How is "pulse" going these days, you still posting under the same name?
    What has PULSE got to do with this topic? Its all you ever seem to care about.


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    #914
    michael999999
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭michael999999


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    What has PULSE got to do with this topic? Its all you ever seem to care about.
    I have never posted on pulse in support of loyalist organisations!

    Can you say the same?

    People should know who they are debating with!


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    #915
    Can'tseeme
    Registered Users Posts: 611 ✭✭✭Can'tseeme


    marienbad wrote: »
    ''the free state'' ? Talk about moving on !

    I'll take that back.

    Tbh, it can be fustrating reading some posts regarding the north. It was a complex situation and there are many reasons for what happened.

    People ignore the context of the times, there was huge anger felt in nationalist areas due to how oppressive the state was. There was violence used against them, Paisley was preaching fear in Protestant communities. At the same time the Catholic church was telling their parishes to "turn the other cheek", "be a better christian" which was splitting the people, communities, families. Constitutional nationalism wasn't getting anywhere and there was still the legacy of partition.

    It was a hopeless and horrible place to live in.


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    #916
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    michael999999 wrote: »
    I have never posted on pulse in support of loyalist organisations!

    Can you say the same?

    People should know who they are debating with!
    What does it matter if some one posts on Irish republican forums or PULSE. Debate the current topic if you wish.


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    #917
    TOMASJ
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭TOMASJ


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Can anyone list things that Martin McGuinness has done for the people of the 26 county Republic of Ireland or anything which has made our lives and Country a better place?

    Is he just a one trick pony or has he got something else up his sleeve after singlehandedly bringing peace to the 6 counties of Northern Ireland?

    Without mention of Northern Ireland what do people see his contribution consisting of if he is elected president of the Republic of Ireland?
    He has done his bit, first war now peace, to make all the citizens of all the 32 counties of Ireland proud to be Irish.


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    #918
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »
    K-9 wrote: »
    People who can't condemn the likes of Proxy bombs without the usual whataboutery and excuses, simple. It's like reading an IRA propaganda manual at times.

    When I see folk like you actually concentrate on something the Brits and loyalists do I'd take you seriously. You're fixated on the IRA, you would swear they were the only ones involved.

    They're the only ones who falsely claimed to be doing it in our name, and the only ones whose supporters pretend that we're "less Irish" or "not realists" when we point out that their actions were inexcusable and criminal.


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    #919
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    They're the only ones who falsely claimed to be doing it in our name, and the only ones whose supporters pretend that we're "less Irish" or "not realists" when we point out that their actions were inexcusable and criminal.

    Sooner or later you are gonna have to show where they did this. Where have they claimed to be doing it in 'our name'?
    There was no way to substantiate that claim if they made it, it was nonsense and just propaganda,
    It might be a learning experience for you to research that claim!

    *someone please copy this (I am on his ignore list) he really needs calling out on that bull.


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    #920
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,567 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Sooner or later you are gonna have to show where they did this. Where have they claimed to be doing it in 'our name'?
    There was no way to substantiate that claim if they made it, it was nonsense and just propaganda,
    It might be a learning experience for you to research that claim!

    *someone please copy this (I am on his ignore list) he really needs calling out on that bull.


    For God sake man why do you think the IRA termed themselves as the Continuity IRA?

    There are still a couple fighting the civil war on the anti-treaty side!

    Why do you think they (and Sinn Fein 4&5) didn't recognise the Dail?

    You say where did they say that? Look through boards.ie and you'll find a number who say that people who outright condemn the activities of the PIRA are not true Irish men, and people who do not feel that our main purpose should be to take over Northern Ireland are not true Irish men. The virtue of patriotism, through the introspective analysis of its constitution, is used by them as a blank check for moral justification.


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    #921
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    For God sake man why do you think the IRA termed themselves as the Continuity IRA?

    There are still a couple fighting the civil war on the anti-treaty side!

    Why do you think they (and Sinn Fein 4&5) didn't recognise the Dail?

    You say where did they say that? Look through boards.ie and you'll find a number who say that people who outright condemn the activities of the PIRA are not true Irish men, and people who do not feel that our main purpose should be to take over Northern Ireland are not true Irish men. The virtue of patriotism, through the introspective analysis of its constitution, is used by them as a blank check for moral justification.

    Again.....never mind what others have claimed on their behalf, where have they ever claimed to be doing it 'in our name'?


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    #922
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,567 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Again.....never mind what others have claimed on their behalf, where have they ever claimed to be doing it 'in our name'?
    There is no difference between entering the partition parliament of Leinster House and entering a partition parliament of Stormont. I speak as the sole surviving Teachta Dála of the Second Dáil Éireann and as the sole surviving member of the Executive of the Second Dáil Éireann. In December, 1969, as the sole surviving member of the Executive of the Second Dáil Éireann, I recognised the Provisional Army Council, which remained true to the Irish Republic as the lawful Army of the Thirty-two County Irish Republic. I do not recognise the legitimacy of any Army Council styling itself the Army Council of the Irish Republican Army which lends support to any person or organisation styling itself as Sinn Féin and prepared to enter the partition parliament of Leinster House. The majority of delegates to a recent IRA convention purported to accept the Leinster House partition parliament, and in so doing broke faith and betrayed the trust placed in their predecessors in 1969. The Irish Republic, proclaimed in arms in Easter Week 1916 and established by the democratic majority vote of the people in the General Election of 1918, has been defended by Irish Republicans for several generations. Many have laid down their lives in that defence. Many others have suffered imprisonment and torture. I am confident the Cause so nobly served will yet triumph.
    "If but a few are faithful found, they must be all the more steadfast for being but a few" (Terence Mac Swiney, Principles of Freedom).

    Dated: 22 October 1986
    Signed: Thomas Maguire Tomás Maguidhir Comdt. General
    .


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    #923
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    .

    Goodness me...what has that got to do with the IRA claiming that their campaign is conducted 'in our name'?

    How many times can you see 'I' in that. Is it signed on behalf of 'all of us' or 'in our name'?


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    #924
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »
    Highlights the sheer ignorance of some people. Yet they love comment on something they have utter ignorance to. Laughable.

    LOL. You do realise that your moniker originally came about as a slight on SF, right?

    Anyways, I've met more politicians from the foreign country that is NI than you've had hot dinners. I even entertained the thought of unification but I've come to realise we might as well unite with Madagascar for all we have in common.

    Tribal peoples in a foreign country. Good luck to them and all that but they have nothing to do with the Republic of Ireland.


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    #925
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Goodness me...what has that got to do with the IRA claiming that their campaign is conducted 'in our name'?

    How many times can you see 'I' in that. Is it signed on behalf of 'all of us' or 'in our name'?

    Our tricolour has been used at every IRA funeral so naturally people associate the tricolour with the ROI and the IRA and the same cause. I once knew some English people who thought the tricolour was the IRA flag, I soon corrected them and informed them that it was hijacked by the terrorists in an attempt to show what they were doing was for us all, only most of us have nothing to do with them.


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    #926
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Our tricolour has been used at every IRA funeral so naturally people associate the tricolour with the ROI and the IRA and the same cause. I once knew some English people who thought the tricolour was the IRA flag, I soon corrected them and informed them that it was hijacked by the terrorists in an attempt to show what they were doing was for us all, only most of us have nothing to do with them.

    I have seen them used to support Celtic too.:rolleyes:
    Try again....if you are so convinced that they have claimed this...find me the quote where somebody from the IRA claims to be doing it 'in our names'.

    You will find it's another example of some Irish people's inferiority complex.

    'What will they think of us?'


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    #927
    Mayo Exile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭Mayo Exile


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    their actions were inexcusable and criminal.

    Generalising again.

    Did you even bother to read Luis Moreno Ocampo's comments that I posted earlier re criminality in a conflict situation?


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    #928
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Mayo Exile wrote: »
    Generalising again.

    Did you even bother to read Luis Moreno Ocampo's comments that I posted earlier re criminality in a conflict situation?

    Post it again Mayo Exile...can't find it and I would like a read. Ta.


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    #929
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I have seen them used to support Celtic too.:rolleyes:
    Try again....if you are so convinced that they have claimed this...find me the quote where somebody from the IRA claims to be doing it 'in our names'.

    You will find it's another example of some Irish people's inferiority complex.

    'What will they think of us?'

    Why use our flag then?


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    #930
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Why use our flag then?

    Why not? They're Irish.


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    #931
    Mayo Exile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭Mayo Exile


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Post it again Mayo Exile...can't find it and I would like a read. Ta.

    Apologies. Here it is.

    Wiki article on "Distinction". Luis Moreno-Ocampo who was the Chief Prosecutor at the International Criminal Court, says that:

    Under international humanitarian law and the Rome Statute, the death of civilians during an armed conflict, no matter how grave and regrettable, does not in itself constitute a war crime. International humanitarian law and the Rome Statute permit belligerents to carry out proportionate attacks against military objectives,[3] even when it is known that some civilian deaths or injuries will occur. A crime occurs if there is an intentional attack directed against civilians (principle of distinction) (Article 8(2)(b)(i)) or an attack is launched on a military objective in the knowledge that the incidental civilian injuries would be clearly excessive in relation to the anticipated military advantage (principle of proportionality) (Article 8(2)(b)(iv).

    Link to actual letter by Ocampo: http://www.scribd.com/doc/336550/otp...-february-2006

    See page 5/10.


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