What Has Martin McGuinness Ever Done For The Republic of Ireland?

foggy_lad

Can anyone list things that Martin McGuinness has done for the people of the 26 county Republic of Ireland or anything which has made our lives and Country a better place?

Is he just a one trick pony or has he got something else up his sleeve after singlehandedly bringing peace to the 6 counties of Northern Ireland?

Without mention of Northern Ireland what do people see his contribution consisting of if he is elected president of the Republic of Ireland?

jhegarty

Less people been shot/exploded on both sides of the border these days.

dvpower

jhegarty wrote: »

Less people been shot/exploded on both sides of the border these days.

... cos he stopped shooting people / exploding people*

*or directing others to do so.

KeithAFC

Absolutely nothing and if he gets elected? Nothing that Higgins or some of the others would not be able to do. Martin Mcguinness and his record in Northern Ireland will really help him prepare himself to open a shop or meet a president from a different country? I don't think so.

FreudianSlippers

Republic of Ireland = Soccer team
Éire or Ireland = Country


Just for the sake of clarity; we're not asking what MMcG has done for the boys in green I'm assuming?

Richard tea

He has brought fresh hope that one day the north and south will be united through peaceful means.


sorry if this post does not fit into another MMG bash thread;)

beeno67

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Republic of Ireland = Soccer team
Éire or Ireland = Country


Just for the sake of clarity; we're not asking what MMcG has done for the boys in green I'm assuming?

I posted this already today but:
I always wonder why people get so excited by the name of the country. Ireland is fine as per the constitution but Rep of Ireland is a fine description as per the 1948 Republic of Ireland Act. People should just relax. It is really not important. Describing Ireland as the Republic of Ireland is fine.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1948/...022/index.html
"It is hereby declared that the description of the State shall be the Republic of Ireland."

dunphy3

Richard tea wrote: »

He has brought fresh hope that one day the north and south will be united through peaceful means.


sorry if this post does not fit into another MMG bash thread;)

YES

FreudianSlippers

beeno67 wrote: »

I posted this already today but:
I always wonder why people get so excited by the name of the country. Ireland is fine as per the constitution but Rep of Ireland is a fine description as per the 1948 Republic of Ireland Act. People should just relax. It is really not important. Describing Ireland as the Republic of Ireland is fine.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1948/...022/index.html
"It is hereby declared that the description of the State shall be the Republic of Ireland."

Common misconception, but it was clarified by Costello when the bill was going to be struck down for being unconstitutional. It doesn't purport to change the name of the nation, it merely clarifies that the nation is a republic (an issue that actually was not clear prior to the 1948 Act).

The name/description difference has been very confusing for some people, but needless to say in order to be correct, you must call the country Éire or Ireland, but you can refer to it as being a republic.

Cliff notes: describing Ireland as the Republic of Ireland is not fine; describing Ireland as a republic is fine.

beeno67

Richard tea wrote: »

He has brought fresh hope that one day the north and south will be united through peaceful means.


sorry if this post does not fit into another MMG bash thread;)

Without mention of Northern Ireland:rolleyes:

Zubeneschamali

foggy_lad wrote: »

Can anyone list things that Martin McGuinness has done for the people of the 26 county Republic of Ireland or anything which has made our lives and Country a better place?

He mostly stayed away and left us alone, until recently.

Which was nice.

Paparazzo

Richard tea wrote: »

He has brought fresh hope that one day the north and south will be united through peaceful means.


sorry if this post does not fit into another MMG bash thread;)

But that was in the past. Wee Martin wants us to forget about the past.

beeno67

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Common misconception, but it was clarified by Costello when the bill was going to be struck down for being unconstitutional. It doesn't purport to change the name of the nation, it merely clarifies that the nation is a republic (an issue that actually was not clear prior to the 1948 Act).

The name/description difference has been very confusing for some people, but needless to say in order to be correct, you must call the country Éire or Ireland, but you can refer to it as being a republic.

Cliff notes: describing Ireland as the Republic of Ireland is not fine; describing Ireland as a republic is fine.

In the Irish statute books it is written

"the description of the State shall be the Republic of Ireland."

Not may but shall

So according to the statute books describing it (as in "the description") as the Republic of Ireland is ok. This is not changing the name of the country. But if people want to describe Ireland as the "Republic of Ireland" they are correct..

FreudianSlippers

beeno67 wrote: »

In the Irish statute books it is written



So according to the statute books describing it (as in "the description") as the Republic of Ireland is ok. This is not changing the name of the country. But if people want to describe Ireland as the "Republic of Ireland" they are correct..

I'm sorry, you're incorrect. People can describe Ireland as a republic, but calling it Republic of Ireland is incorrect. From Costello's mouth himself and any legislation that would suggest otherwise is unconstitutional.

Look it up yourself if you don't believe me.

RandomName2

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I'm sorry, you're incorrect. People can describe Ireland as a republic, but calling it Republic of Ireland is incorrect. From Costello's mouth himself and any legislation that would suggest otherwise is unconstitutional.

Look it up yourself if you don't believe me.

ffs don't capitalise the R of republic and you're grand.

It's not like you are going to get mixed up with the 2nd Empire of Ireland, the Grand Duchy of Ireland, the Independent City of Limerick of Ireland, or the United States of Ireland.



Edit:
The republic of 'Ireland' is the state 'Ireland'.
"Northern Ireland" is a country in the state of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

The landmass "Ireland" contains both "Ireland" and "Northern Ireland". For the sake of clarification Ireland is often described as the republic of Ireland so as to identify it from the island, Ireland, which which it currently shares the same name.

I would like to say that that's an end to the discussion on the matter, but I know that it isn't

beeno67

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I'm sorry, you're incorrect. People can describe Ireland as a republic, but calling it Republic of Ireland is incorrect. From Costello's mouth himself and any legislation that would suggest otherwise is unconstitutional.

Look it up yourself if you don't believe me.

You are getting massively pedantic here as is the whole idea of complaining about the name. Let people call it what ever thay want. The statute books state: The Republic of Ireland.
2.—It is hereby declared that the description of the State shall be the Republic of Ireland.


Whatever Costello said is irrelevant but here is what he said:

If the Senator will look at Article 4 of the Constitution she will find that the name of the State is Éire. Section 2 of this Bill declares that "this State shall be described as the Republic of Ireland". Its name in Irish is Éire and in the English language Ireland. Its description in the English language is "the Republic of Ireland

Describing it as the Republic of Ireland (note the capitals and the definitive article) is right according to the Irish Statute book and Costello. The name of the country according to the constitution is Ireland.

foggy_lad

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Republic of Ireland = Soccer team
Éire or Ireland = Country


Just for the sake of clarity; we're not asking what MMcG has done for the boys in green I'm assuming?

Ok but I used the name Republic of Ireland for Martin's sake in case he is registered on boards.ie and wanted to post, so that he would know I was referring to the 26 counties and not the whole Island of Ireland which he still recognises as the state.

Richard tea wrote: »

He has brought fresh hope that one day the north and south will be united through peaceful means.


sorry if this post does not fit into another MMG bash thread;)

No need to apologise, i dont want this to be a sinn fein or McGuinness bashing thread either.

It seems to me that North and South have been united through a total seperation though and this took a lot more effort and work than Martin McGuinness and sinn fein/IRA laying down their arms

FreudianSlippers

RandomName2 wrote: »

ffs don't capitalise the R of republic and you're grand.

It's not like you are going to get mixed up with the 2nd Empire of Ireland, the Grand Duchy of Ireland, the Independent City of Limerick of Ireland, or the United States of Ireland.

You can be wrong all you want.

Wasn't it Goethe:

There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

People being proud of it just blows my mind. Presumably this is the same crew that doesn't see any problems with "txt spk" and misspellings once people can "get the idea" of what they're trying to say :rolleyes:

FreudianSlippers

beeno67 wrote: »

You are getting massively pedantic here as is the whole idea of complaining about the name. Let people call it what ever thay want. The statute books state: The Republic of Ireland.
2.—It is hereby declared that the description of the State shall be the Republic of Ireland.


Whatever Costello said is irrelevant. Describing it as the Republic of Ireland (note the capitals and the definitive article) is right according to the Irish Statute book. The name of the country according to the constitution is Ireland.

Quite simply, no it isn't. It could not have been enacted if it was unconstitutional - constitution trumps statute book.

Of course, you can keep arguing the point; I'm sure your extensive education and experience with Constitutional law needs to be exercised somehow.

mike65

The answer is nothing at all, he's done the place harm all right as part of an organisation that made it hard for the state to develop international economic links that would have been to the benefit of the people of this state. Kidnapping people like Tiede Herrema, Don Tidey and even shooting dead Shergar did send the wrong sort of message.

foggy_lad

mike65 wrote: »

The answer is nothing at all, he's done the place harm all right as part of an organisation that made it hard for the state to develop international economic links that would have been to the benefit of the people of this state. Kidnapping people like Tiede Herrema, Don Tidey and even shooting dead Shergar did send the wrong sort of message.

There is also a lot of American/U.S. investment that would not have happened but for the IRA and their fundraising efforts in the United States of America

There is no real evidence that the IRA were involved in the disappearance of Shergar.

beeno67

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Quite simply, no it isn't. It could not have been enacted if it was unconstitutional - constitution trumps statute book.

Of course, you can keep arguing the point; I'm sure your extensive education and experience with Constitutional law needs to be exercised somehow.

There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

Spacedog

He kneecapped a load of heroin dealers in dolphin's barn in the 80s.

Shame he left a few slip through.

FreudianSlippers

beeno67 wrote: »

There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

Ignorance how now?

FreudianSlippers

mike65 wrote: »

The answer is nothing at all, he's done the place harm all right as part of an organisation that made it hard for the state to develop international economic links that would have been to the benefit of the people of this state. Kidnapping people like Tiede Herrema, Don Tidey and even shooting dead Shergar did send the wrong sort of message.

:eek: I forgot all about Shergar!

Fuppin' grassholes!

RandomName2

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

You can be wrong all you want.

Wasn't it Goethe:



People being proud of it just blows my mind. Presumably this is the same crew that doesn't see any problems with "txt spk" and misspellings once people can "get the idea" of what they're trying to say :rolleyes:

FFS!

The: Definite Article. There is only one of these things in existence!

Republic: a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them, or simply one in which the head of state is not a monarch.

Of: Preposition; used to indicate possession, origin, or association, constituted by, containing, or characterised by

Ireland: Either the island or country: either meaning works in the context.

I am beginning to despair

mike65

foggy_lad wrote: »

There is also a lot of American/U.S. investment that would not have happened but for the IRA and their fundraising efforts in the United States of America

You better explain this to me, I might be a bit thick but blowing up, shooting and kidnapping people generally dissuades hard nosed businessmen from investment in a location.

foggy_lad

Spacedog wrote: »

He kneecapped a load of heroin dealers in dolphin's barn in the 80s.

Shame he left a few slip through.

He did not do this surely? but it was done in the name of the IRA but was this not just a way for the local criminals(many who are still around) to terrorise and intimidate hard working honest citizens even more?

foggy_lad

mike65 wrote: »

You better explain this to me, I might be a bit thick but blowing up, shooting and kidnapping people generally dissuades hard nosed businessmen from investment in a location.

When Ireland(Republic of) was thriving the IRA coffers were full so it was in their interest to keep American companies investing and keep Americans and Irish people contributing to the cause.

beeno67

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Ignorance how now?

You cannot see the difference between the name and the description. I quoted for you what Costello actually said but you ignore that.
I have quoted you the actual act. Word for word, yet you say it doesn't say what it actually says. If it was unconstitutional it would have been tested in the Supreme court by this stage, yet you say that what the actual act says cannot be so because that would be unconstitutional.

As I say you are being totally pedantic about this. People know exactly what is meant by Republic of Ireland (probably more than they know exactly what is meant by Ireland). I have had enough of this. Carry on with the pedantry.

FreudianSlippers

RandomName2 wrote: »

FFS!

The: Definite Article. There is only one of these things in existence!

Republic: a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them, or simply one in which the head of state is not a monarch.

Of: Preposition; used to indicate possession, origin, or association, constituted by, containing, or characterised by

Ireland: Either the island or country: either meaning works in the context.

I am beginning to despair

You can begin to despair all you want, but you're simply wrong. How do you think I feel having to deal with stupidity where it's clear I'm correct.

Explain the significance of the Supreme Court decision in 1989 of Ellis v O'Dea if you believe it is accurate to call the country the Republic of Ireland?

The purpose of the 1948 Act is to officially declare the country as a republic - your definition is correct. However, it's not as simple as you put it forward; clear from the decision in Ellis that a description of Republic of Ireland is not correct.

I, now, begin to despair for those who argue despite having not a notion of what they are on about.

mike65

foggy_lad wrote: »

When Ireland(Republic of) was thriving the IRA coffers were full so it was in their interest to keep American companies investing and keep Americans and Irish people contributing to the cause.

Did the IRA send out brochures titled "Invest in Ireland (and we won't bomb you)" or stage trade missions to New York, Chicago and Los Angeles?

You may not have noticed this but for most of the Provos existence Ireland was not thriving. How old are you?

FreudianSlippers

beeno67 wrote: »

You cannot see the difference between the name and the description. I quoted for you what Costello actually said but you ignore that.
I have quoted you the actual act. Word for word, yet you say it doesn't say what it actually says. If it was unconstitutional it would have been tested in the Supreme court by this stage, yet you say that what the actual act says cannot be so because that would be unconstitutional.

As I say you are being totally pedantic about this. People know exactly what is meant by Republic of Ireland (probably more than they know exactly what is meant by Ireland). I have had enough of this. Carry on with the pedantry.

I've pointed out that it is fine if you want to describe the country as a republic, but to call it Republic of Ireland is incorrect unless you are talking about the national soccer team according to FIFA.

The Supreme Court did test it and I'm the one who quoted Costello; who made it clear that the nation was not called the Republic of Ireland, that it simply meant that the nation was officially a republic following that Act.

I have sufficiently dealt with this matter and you can bow out all you want; I will remain, satisfied.

Duke Leonal Felmet

foggy_lad wrote: »

mike65 wrote: »

The answer is nothing at all, he's done the place harm all right as part of an organisation that made it hard for the state to develop international economic links that would have been to the benefit of the people of this state. Kidnapping people like Tiede Herrema, Don Tidey and even shooting dead Shergar did send the wrong sort of message.

There is also a lot of American/U.S. investment that would not have happened but for the IRA and their fundraising efforts in the United States of America

There is no real evidence that the IRA were involved in the disappearance of Shergar.

Other than opinion, do you have any evidence that this investment claim is true?

mike65

Of course he doesn't!

RandomName2

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I've pointed out that it is fine if you want to describe the country as a republic

At last. :pac:

Dirk Gently

manic pedantry makes me want to vomit out my eyes.

Spacedog

foggy_lad wrote: »

He did not do this surely? but it was done in the name of the IRA but was this not just a way for the local criminals(many who are still around) to terrorise and intimidate hard working honest citizens even more?

Sure he was in the IRA, I'd say he personally capped a few pushers in his day. I'm not sayin the RA were saints. but it's hard to disagree with their smack dealer hobbling policy. The gardai weren't going to do anything about it. I once seen the gards patrolling down that way, casually strolling by and remember thinking "ah fair play", as i got further up the road I saw a woman being beaten by her husband... The Gards had been called to a violent domestic disturbance, and instead of taking a squad car and racing to the scene, they thought it good opportunity to get some fresh air.

I wouldney vote for 'em, but ain't it strange that dub south central is a constituency where Sinn Fein always do well. In the absence of law enforcement, they were left with no choice but to turn to paramilitaries for help. Sad but true.

FreudianSlippers

RandomName2 wrote: »

At last. :pac:

Yeah, Ireland that republic nation on the island of Ireland; not the Republic of Ireland.:pac:

Dirk Gently wrote: »

manic pedantry makes me want to vomit out my eyes.

Vomit out of your eye balls themselves, or vomit your eyes - as in eat your eyes and then vomit them back up?

Dirk Gently

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Vomit out of your eye balls themselves, or vomit your eyes - as in eat your eyes and then vomit them back up?

The first one, unless it's unconstitutional.

beeno67

Spacedog wrote: »

Sure he was in the IRA, I'd say he personally capped a few pushers in his day. I'm not sayin the RA were saints. but it's hard to disagree with their smack dealer hobbling policy. The gardai weren't going to do anything about it. I once seen the gards patrolling down that way, casually strolling by and remember thinking "ah fair play", as i got further up the road I saw a woman being beaten by her husband... The Gards had been called to a violent domestic disturbance, and instead of taking a squad car and racing to the scene, they thought it good opportunity to get some fresh air.

I wouldney vote for 'em, but ain't it strange that dub south central is a constituency where Sinn Fein always do well. In the absence of law enforcement, they were left with no choice but to turn to paramilitaries for help. Sad but true.

How did they decide which dealers to knee cap and which ones not to? Dublin South Central had, and still has a number of drug dealers. Many believe the IRA simply controlled the drug trade. Knee capped the ones who were getting out of line. Left alone the ones that played ball with the IRA.

caseyann

Why are you asking that,what did Martin do for Irish people.Everything.What does he want to do for Ireland everything he can.
Thats all needs to be said,he wants to and will do all he can for Ireland.

D1stant

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I have sufficiently dealt with this matter and you can bow out all you want; I will remain, satisfied.

Satfisfied you've ruined a thread with this superior anal nonsense?

FreudianSlippers

Dirk Gently wrote: »

The first one, unless it's unconstitutional.

Fortunately, that provision was removed during the 1937 Dáil debates.

foggy_lad

mike65 wrote: »

Did the IRA send out brochures titled "Invest in Ireland (and we won't bomb you)" or stage trade missions to New York, Chicago and Los Angeles?

You may not have noticed this but for most of the Provos existence Ireland was not thriving. How old are you?

my opinion and that of many others who know that the IRA and sinn fein members in the U.S.A. raised funds for the IRA struggle and American people invested in Ireland as a means of providing more funding. There was massive unemployment all over Ireland for a lot of the time but there were still a lot of people with money around.

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

Other than opinion, do you have any evidence that this investment claim is true?

My opinion and like a lot of things relating to the the troubles there is very little evidence on both sides.

marienbad

RandomName2 wrote: »

FFS!

The: Definite Article. There is only one of these things in existence!

Republic: a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them, or simply one in which the head of state is not a monarch.

Of: Preposition; used to indicate possession, origin, or association, constituted by, containing, or characterised by

Ireland: Either the island or country: either meaning works in the context.

I am beginning to despair

I am afraid you are seriously in error RandomName2 and it is a lot more than pedantry as even the most cursory search would show.

You are (unwittingly I asssume) adopting the same attitude a host of British politicians and newpapers from Clement Attlee on down in refusing accept the name we choose for ourselves. Maggie with her Free State references was a similar example , just a bit more crass.

As a side note I was always irritated how the BBC always referred to Charles Haughey as Charles Hock-hee despite having a pronunciation department and this even though I dislikes the bould Charles

foggy_lad

caseyann wrote: »

Why are you asking that,what did Martin do for Irish people.Everything.What does he want to do for Ireland everything he can.
Thats all needs to be said,he wants to and will do all he can for Ireland.

Are we talking about the 26 counties or 32 counties?

When he says everything does that include remaining within the 26 county state if the Government decide he is not to travel abroad?

beeno67

foggy_lad wrote: »

my opinion and that of many others who know that the IRA and sinn fein members in the U.S.A. raised funds for the IRA struggle and American people invested in Ireland as a means of providing more funding. There was massive unemployment all over Ireland for a lot of the time but there were still a lot of people with money around.
.

But what about the people who wouldn't invest in Ireland because of "the troubles"? I met loads of people when I travelled a lot in the 80s who once they heard I was from Ireland would always ask me about the IRA. People telling me how they would love to visit Ireland but wouldn't because of the "war". How much money for tourism and investment was lost due to Martin's friends?

foggy_lad

beeno67 wrote: »

But what about the people who wouldn't invest in Ireland because of "the troubles"? I met loads of people when I travelled a lot in the 80s who once they heard I was from Ireland would always ask me about the IRA. People telling me how they would love to visit Ireland but wouldn't because of the "war". How much money for tourism and investment was lost due to Martin's friends?

True, i have met some of these people myself who have only recently come on month long stays to Ireland where they spent a small fortune enjoying their holidays, due to their concerns they never came to Ireland at all before the Good Friday agreement.

So Ireland may well have lost out on serious investment from one section but gained from another?

spider guardian

foggy_lad wrote: »

Can anyone list things that Martin McGuinness has done for the people of the 26 county Republic of Ireland or anything which has made our lives and Country a better place?

Is he just a one trick pony or has he got something else up his sleeve after singlehandedly bringing peace to the 6 counties of Northern Ireland?

Without mention of Northern Ireland what do people see his contribution consisting of if he is elected president of the Republic of Ireland?

What does it matter what he has done for the Republic? Surely the question that matters is what will he do for the Republic?

foggy_lad

spider guardian wrote: »

What does it matter what he has done for the Republic? Surely the question that matters is what will he do for the Republic?

True but all the other candidates have been involved in Ireland for a number of years while he has little or no experience of Ireland and its people having dealt mostly with his careers as IRA member and politician in another country.

I will also ask now what do people think he will do for the 26 counties of Ireland if he is elected President?