What Has Martin McGuinness Ever Done For The Republic of Ireland?

mike65 · 12-10-2011 5:20pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

When Ireland(Republic of) was thriving the IRA coffers were full so it was in their interest to keep American companies investing and keep Americans and Irish people contributing to the cause.

Did the IRA send out brochures titled "Invest in Ireland (and we won't bomb you)" or stage trade missions to New York, Chicago and Los Angeles?

You may not have noticed this but for most of the Provos existence Ireland was not thriving. How old are you?

FreudianSlippers · 12-10-2011 5:21pm

beeno67 wrote: »

You cannot see the difference between the name and the description. I quoted for you what Costello actually said but you ignore that.
I have quoted you the actual act. Word for word, yet you say it doesn't say what it actually says. If it was unconstitutional it would have been tested in the Supreme court by this stage, yet you say that what the actual act says cannot be so because that would be unconstitutional.

As I say you are being totally pedantic about this. People know exactly what is meant by Republic of Ireland (probably more than they know exactly what is meant by Ireland). I have had enough of this. Carry on with the pedantry.

I've pointed out that it is fine if you want to describe the country as a republic, but to call it Republic of Ireland is incorrect unless you are talking about the national soccer team according to FIFA.

The Supreme Court did test it and I'm the one who quoted Costello; who made it clear that the nation was not called the Republic of Ireland, that it simply meant that the nation was officially a republic following that Act.

I have sufficiently dealt with this matter and you can bow out all you want; I will remain, satisfied.

Duke Leonal Felmet · 12-10-2011 5:23pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

mike65 wrote: »

The answer is nothing at all, he's done the place harm all right as part of an organisation that made it hard for the state to develop international economic links that would have been to the benefit of the people of this state. Kidnapping people like Tiede Herrema, Don Tidey and even shooting dead Shergar did send the wrong sort of message.

There is also a lot of American/U.S. investment that would not have happened but for the IRA and their fundraising efforts in the United States of America

There is no real evidence that the IRA were involved in the disappearance of Shergar.

Other than opinion, do you have any evidence that this investment claim is true?

mike65 · 12-10-2011 5:24pm

Of course he doesn't!

RandomName2 · 12-10-2011 5:34pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I've pointed out that it is fine if you want to describe the country as a republic

At last. :pac:

Dirk Gently · 12-10-2011 5:34pm

manic pedantry makes me want to vomit out my eyes.

Spacedog · 12-10-2011 5:36pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

He did not do this surely? but it was done in the name of the IRA but was this not just a way for the local criminals(many who are still around) to terrorise and intimidate hard working honest citizens even more?

Sure he was in the IRA, I'd say he personally capped a few pushers in his day. I'm not sayin the RA were saints. but it's hard to disagree with their smack dealer hobbling policy. The gardai weren't going to do anything about it. I once seen the gards patrolling down that way, casually strolling by and remember thinking "ah fair play", as i got further up the road I saw a woman being beaten by her husband... The Gards had been called to a violent domestic disturbance, and instead of taking a squad car and racing to the scene, they thought it good opportunity to get some fresh air.

I wouldney vote for 'em, but ain't it strange that dub south central is a constituency where Sinn Fein always do well. In the absence of law enforcement, they were left with no choice but to turn to paramilitaries for help. Sad but true.

FreudianSlippers · 12-10-2011 5:38pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

At last. :pac:

Yeah, Ireland that republic nation on the island of Ireland; not the Republic of Ireland.:pac:

Dirk Gently wrote: »

manic pedantry makes me want to vomit out my eyes.

Vomit out of your eye balls themselves, or vomit your eyes - as in eat your eyes and then vomit them back up?

Dirk Gently · 12-10-2011 5:43pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Vomit out of your eye balls themselves, or vomit your eyes - as in eat your eyes and then vomit them back up?

The first one, unless it's unconstitutional.

beeno67 · 12-10-2011 5:43pm

Spacedog wrote: »

Sure he was in the IRA, I'd say he personally capped a few pushers in his day. I'm not sayin the RA were saints. but it's hard to disagree with their smack dealer hobbling policy. The gardai weren't going to do anything about it. I once seen the gards patrolling down that way, casually strolling by and remember thinking "ah fair play", as i got further up the road I saw a woman being beaten by her husband... The Gards had been called to a violent domestic disturbance, and instead of taking a squad car and racing to the scene, they thought it good opportunity to get some fresh air.

I wouldney vote for 'em, but ain't it strange that dub south central is a constituency where Sinn Fein always do well. In the absence of law enforcement, they were left with no choice but to turn to paramilitaries for help. Sad but true.

How did they decide which dealers to knee cap and which ones not to? Dublin South Central had, and still has a number of drug dealers. Many believe the IRA simply controlled the drug trade. Knee capped the ones who were getting out of line. Left alone the ones that played ball with the IRA.

caseyann · 12-10-2011 5:45pm

Why are you asking that,what did Martin do for Irish people.Everything.What does he want to do for Ireland everything he can.
Thats all needs to be said,he wants to and will do all he can for Ireland.

D1stant · 12-10-2011 5:46pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I have sufficiently dealt with this matter and you can bow out all you want; I will remain, satisfied.

Satfisfied you've ruined a thread with this superior anal nonsense?

FreudianSlippers · 12-10-2011 5:47pm

Dirk Gently wrote: »

The first one, unless it's unconstitutional.

Fortunately, that provision was removed during the 1937 Dáil debates.

foggy_lad · 12-10-2011 5:51pm

mike65 wrote: »

Did the IRA send out brochures titled "Invest in Ireland (and we won't bomb you)" or stage trade missions to New York, Chicago and Los Angeles?

You may not have noticed this but for most of the Provos existence Ireland was not thriving. How old are you?

my opinion and that of many others who know that the IRA and sinn fein members in the U.S.A. raised funds for the IRA struggle and American people invested in Ireland as a means of providing more funding. There was massive unemployment all over Ireland for a lot of the time but there were still a lot of people with money around.

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

Other than opinion, do you have any evidence that this investment claim is true?

My opinion and like a lot of things relating to the the troubles there is very little evidence on both sides.

marienbad · 12-10-2011 5:54pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

FFS!

The: Definite Article. There is only one of these things in existence!

Republic: a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them, or simply one in which the head of state is not a monarch.

Of: Preposition; used to indicate possession, origin, or association, constituted by, containing, or characterised by

Ireland: Either the island or country: either meaning works in the context.

I am beginning to despair

I am afraid you are seriously in error RandomName2 and it is a lot more than pedantry as even the most cursory search would show.

You are (unwittingly I asssume) adopting the same attitude a host of British politicians and newpapers from Clement Attlee on down in refusing accept the name we choose for ourselves. Maggie with her Free State references was a similar example , just a bit more crass.

As a side note I was always irritated how the BBC always referred to Charles Haughey as Charles Hock-hee despite having a pronunciation department and this even though I dislikes the bould Charles

foggy_lad · 12-10-2011 5:55pm

caseyann wrote: »

Why are you asking that,what did Martin do for Irish people.Everything.What does he want to do for Ireland everything he can.
Thats all needs to be said,he wants to and will do all he can for Ireland.

Are we talking about the 26 counties or 32 counties?

When he says everything does that include remaining within the 26 county state if the Government decide he is not to travel abroad?

beeno67 · 12-10-2011 5:57pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

my opinion and that of many others who know that the IRA and sinn fein members in the U.S.A. raised funds for the IRA struggle and American people invested in Ireland as a means of providing more funding. There was massive unemployment all over Ireland for a lot of the time but there were still a lot of people with money around.
.

But what about the people who wouldn't invest in Ireland because of "the troubles"? I met loads of people when I travelled a lot in the 80s who once they heard I was from Ireland would always ask me about the IRA. People telling me how they would love to visit Ireland but wouldn't because of the "war". How much money for tourism and investment was lost due to Martin's friends?

foggy_lad · 12-10-2011 6:02pm

beeno67 wrote: »

But what about the people who wouldn't invest in Ireland because of "the troubles"? I met loads of people when I travelled a lot in the 80s who once they heard I was from Ireland would always ask me about the IRA. People telling me how they would love to visit Ireland but wouldn't because of the "war". How much money for tourism and investment was lost due to Martin's friends?

True, i have met some of these people myself who have only recently come on month long stays to Ireland where they spent a small fortune enjoying their holidays, due to their concerns they never came to Ireland at all before the Good Friday agreement.

So Ireland may well have lost out on serious investment from one section but gained from another?

spider guardian · 12-10-2011 6:04pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Can anyone list things that Martin McGuinness has done for the people of the 26 county Republic of Ireland or anything which has made our lives and Country a better place?

Is he just a one trick pony or has he got something else up his sleeve after singlehandedly bringing peace to the 6 counties of Northern Ireland?

Without mention of Northern Ireland what do people see his contribution consisting of if he is elected president of the Republic of Ireland?

What does it matter what he has done for the Republic? Surely the question that matters is what will he do for the Republic?

foggy_lad · 12-10-2011 6:17pm

spider guardian wrote: »

What does it matter what he has done for the Republic? Surely the question that matters is what will he do for the Republic?

True but all the other candidates have been involved in Ireland for a number of years while he has little or no experience of Ireland and its people having dealt mostly with his careers as IRA member and politician in another country.

I will also ask now what do people think he will do for the 26 counties of Ireland if he is elected President?

du Maurier · 12-10-2011 6:18pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I've pointed out that it is fine if you want to describe the country as a republic, but to call it Republic of Ireland is incorrect unless you are talking about the national soccer team according to FIFA.

The Supreme Court did test it and I'm the one who quoted Costello; who made it clear that the nation was not called the Republic of Ireland, that it simply meant that the nation was officially a republic following that Act.

I have sufficiently dealt with this matter and you can bow out all you want; I will remain, satisfied.

Clearly you don't sound like a person satisfied with anything. Pontificating from your exalted pedestal of pedantry:) Could be tongue-twister, that one..

spider guardian · 12-10-2011 6:37pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

True but all the other candidates have been involved in Ireland for a number of years while he has little or no experience of Ireland and its people having dealt mostly with his careers as IRA member and politician in another country.

I will also ask now what do people think he will do for the 26 counties of Ireland if he is elected President?

I would put it to you that his part in delivering the Good Friday Agreement benefited people on both sides of the border. Peace on the island is not to be taken for granted.

If a United Ireland is your thing then a McGuinness presidency will put that back on the agenda.

I imagine that people who will vote for him will expect him to do for the 26 counties what McAleese has done before him. Represent us on the national stage with dignity, continue to restore our national reputation and continue to foster cross-community relations. (I understand this at odds with the United Ireland aim but there you go). Also to uphold his pledge to protect the constitution and state.

What more do you want from a president?

Duke Leonal Felmet · 12-10-2011 6:39pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

mike65 wrote: »

Did the IRA send out brochures titled "Invest in Ireland (and we won't bomb you)" or stage trade missions to New York, Chicago and Los Angeles?

You may not have noticed this but for most of the Provos existence Ireland was not thriving. How old are you?

my opinion and that of many others who know that the IRA and sinn fein members in the U.S.A. raised funds for the IRA struggle and American people invested in Ireland as a means of providing more funding. There was massive unemployment all over Ireland for a lot of the time but there were still a lot of people with money around.

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

Other than opinion, do you have any evidence that this investment claim is true?

My opinion and like a lot of things relating to the the troubles there is very little evidence on both sides.

So, it's bollocks then.

foggy_lad · 12-10-2011 6:52pm

spider guardian wrote: »

I would put it to you that his part in delivering the Good Friday Agreement benefited people on both sides of the border. Peace on the island is not to be taken for granted.

If a United Ireland is your thing then a McGuinness presidency will put that back on the agenda.

I imagine that people who will vote for him will expect him to do for the 26 counties what McAleese has done before him. Represent us on the national stage with dignity, continue to restore our national reputation and continue to foster cross-community relations. (I understand this at odds with the United Ireland aim but there you go). Also to uphold his pledge to protect the constitution and state.

What more do you want from a president?

Agreed that his part in the GFA has greatly benefitted North and South but he was only a small part of the overall process,

I would not describe him as being responsible for it because at that time people both North and South had decided that violence was going to end so all the men and women of violence had lost the power they once had and they also lost their protection as people were more inclined to report them and "grass" on them.

He has no power or authority or mandate to discuss a united Ireland except maybe in an historical context as the people of Ireland have voted for constitutional changes to reflect our acceptance of 26 counties being the Irish State or Republic.

spider guardian · 12-10-2011 7:18pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Agreed that his part in the GFA has greatly benefitted North and South but he was only a small part of the overall process,

I would not describe him as being responsible for it because at that time people both North and South had decided that violence was going to end so all the men and women of violence had lost the power they once had and they also lost their protection as people were more inclined to report them and "grass" on them.

He has no power or authority or mandate to discuss a united Ireland except maybe in an historical context as the people of Ireland have voted for constitutional changes to reflect our acceptance of 26 counties being the Irish State or Republic.

As Sinn Féin's chief negotiator at the Good Friday Agreement talks I would say he played a substantial role in bringing it to fruition. It could hardly have came about without Sinn Féin's agreement but that is not to dismiss the contribution of others. But remember that efforts at reconciliation did not simply stop when the agreement was signed, the Unionists and Nationalists still had to build and maintain relationships, there were many on either side that did not want that to happen. McGuinness is seen on the Unionist side as being very fair, it takes skill and character to reach out to the other side the way McGuinness did.

Given that McGuinness is campaigning on the line that he wants to 'build a new republic' then if he is elected he will have a mandate to at least bring about dialogue, maybe not directly himself but having a Shinner in the Áras will certainly stimulate debate on the issue.

KeithAFC · 12-10-2011 7:37pm

spider guardian wrote: »

What does it matter what he has done for the Republic? Surely the question that matters is what will he do for the Republic?

What on earth can Martin Mcguinness do in the role anyway? From what I hear, it has very little power. To be honest, you should be looking to give more power to the role or scrap it.

Spacedog · 12-10-2011 7:40pm

beeno67 wrote: »

How did they decide which dealers to knee cap and which ones not to? Dublin South Central had, and still has a number of drug dealers. Many believe the IRA simply controlled the drug trade. Knee capped the ones who were getting out of line. Left alone the ones that played ball with the IRA.

Depends where you draw your opinions from. if you read unionists biographies you'll come to that conclusion. if you read provo/anti treaty type books you'll think they were saints. Can't say for certain.

Personally I'd refer to Mr. Nice by Howard Marx, He has an interesting experience/perspective on the IRA, Afghanistan, the US correctional system among other things.

Spacedog · 12-10-2011 7:43pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

What on earth can Martin Mcguinness do in the role anyway? From what I hear, it has very little power. To be honest, you should be looking to give more power to the role or scrap it.

I'm curious AFC, who would you vote for in this election? Mitchell right?

spider guardian · 12-10-2011 7:44pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

What on earth can Martin Mcguinness do in the role anyway? From what I hear, it has very little power. To be honest, you should be looking to give more power to the role or scrap it.

Have you never used Wikipedia? Read up on the presidency here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_ireland

You can think of the role as similar to that held by Lizzie, except it isn't hereditary and the incumbent must seek election from time to time

mike65 · 12-10-2011 7:46pm

Liz has far more potential power then any Irish President.

What Has Martin McGuinness Ever Done For The Republic of Ireland?

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