Its about time - IMAT12

Oryx

griffin100 wrote: »

Eehh, in my case it's a refection of my approach to IM and also my general laziness about training. We could get some sub 12hr smack talk going but I don't think it would have the same cache of sub 10hr. For one thing I've no idea what size my FTP is........or what it is for that matter, the only thing I can think of is that it stands for Flaccid Tiny Penis.........as in how big is yours;)

Afaik most guys are sub 12, so I dont see what your problem is?


With apologies to RedB for lowering the tone of this hitherto pure and righteous log.

griffin100

Oryx wrote: »

Afaik most guys are sub 12, so I dont see what your problem is?


With apologies to RedB for lowering the tone of this hitherto pure and righteous log.

I bow to your superior experience in these matters (just to be sure, are we talking metric or imperial?)














Sorry RedB

RedB

Oryx wrote: »

Afaik most guys are sub 12, so I dont see what your problem is?

With apologies to RedB for lowering the tone of this hitherto pure and righteous log.

griffin100 wrote: »

I bow to your superior experience in these matters (just to be sure, are we talking metric or imperial?)

Sorry RedB

No problemo :P - I'll just pull up a chair unless the two of you want to take it elsewhere This is a version of smack talk I'm not familiar with :rolleyes:

RedB

Thurs 12/4/12 (cont'd) pm 2000m Swim
300m wu
8x50m Drills (One arm side, superman, catchup - all with fins, pull buoy)
5x200m off 5:00 -generally in on 4:30
300m wd

Fri 13/4/12 am run, 1:15 with 10min hard on 1:00
15.1km, 1:15:51, 5:01/km
Hard 10min split at 4:21/km. Not great but paced it better to manage the full 10min :rolleyes:.
Nice run. Cool morning again and I'm loving my hat, gloves and jacket. Feeling good in the right gear .
Was tired last night even though the swim refreshed me and knowing that lack of adequate quality sleep is an issue for me so I didn't set the alarm. That took some of the subconcious pressure off resulting in quality sleep and I woke early anyway . The family are on holiday mode this week and staying up later and sleeping in later too so I'm trying to avoid staying up late with them as they get another 3 hours+ sleep :eek: on me in the morning. Its still nearly midnight by the time I get to sleep and trying to survive on less than 7 hours sleep doesn't work for me so I'm going to have to continue to be a partypooper and slink away . Its a very un-natural thing for me to do but I need to be disciplined then or everything else will unravel later.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

RedB wrote: »

Had to smile at the reverse smack talk above out of Oryx and griffin100 . Slightly different from MrT and JB's version

Yeah you guys have it back to front:)

RedB

Fri 13/4/12 (cont'd) pm 1600m swim
300m wu
5x200m off 5min generally in on 4:15-4:20
300m wd
The heating is gone at work all week and its been like sitting in an icebox so much that I picked up a bit of a headcold. That and the pool traffic meant I didn't really get into the swing of it. Tried concentrating on technique and holding form.

Sat 14/4/12 Long Cycle (Part 1)
106.4km, 3:27:56, 30.7kph
Chuffed with maintaining this average speed although it was as a result of a tailwind from Limerick to Tralee :rolleyes:.
The opportunity arose to do a return bike trip to Tralee as the family were going down, the forecast was good and I was just about ready.
Started poorly with having to change a puncture before I ever left the house and then getting a tyre blowout after 10km. Luckily I had just passed the TriBikes shop at Raheen so I walked back there but had to wait for them to open. I had €20 on me but not enough to cover a new Gatorskin tyre and tube but they were good enough to let me fix up next week. Must bring a card in future . Anyway I flew down after that and was really loving the speed on a beautiful day especially coming down towards Castleisland and around the bypass there where I was getting up to 60kph :cool:;). Gravity and wind were my buddies for a change :rolleyes:. I found it a bit harder mentally from there to Tralee but arrived ahead of the posse so was happy with that. Devoured a fine lunch after that .

Sun 15/4/12 Long Cycle (Part 2)
106.1km, 3:40:29, 28.9 kph
Not too shabby on the way back either although the headwind was hardly there at this stage but the legs weren't as fresh either. Spun easy over to Castleisland going east before turning north into the wind and uphill. Payback time . Still averaged 30.4kph for the first hour but splits then dropped to 28.2kph, 28.9kph and 27.5kph. My back and shoulders were hurting for the last hour+ but my rear was especially unhappy as my bib cut me . Tired legs but very satisfied to be able to put those km into them. Aches and pains meant last nights sleep was a bit interupted though.

Biggest week ever at 17.75

BennyMul

A nice weeks work there, and a sweet weekend to finish it off,
Glad your back on track.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Good week put down Red and two solid back to back bikes.

shotgunmcos

Good Stuff RedB. Thats more like IM talk outta ya. Still plenty of time left and youare in good shape dude.. :cool:

RedB

Mon 16/4/12 pm 1300m Tri club swim
300m wu
Broken time trial - 1000m with 10sec rest after each 100m
Total 24min less 90sec = 22:30 or avg 2:15/100m
Didn't really understand the concept but was happy to take it easy . Tired legs.
Practiced some lane turns after.

Tues 17/4/12 am LSR
22.25 KM, 2:00, 5:24/KM
Cold morning with wind chill at times. Just avoided most of rain.
Longest run of this block so its finally starting to get serious on the run front :rolleyes:

Got a roll down entry into the Tri an Mhi HIM on May 12th from being on the waiting list so happy with that. I had been toying with the idea of a big weekend around then but general advice from forum was stick to normal increasing load as per Fink. Fink actually has a HIM week in the schedule so I'll just tweek that to suit as well as the Oly week for Joey next week. I really need to get into long swim sets pronto though or I won't even make it out of the water in IMAT (or Joey..or Tri an Mhi.. )

RedB

Wed 18/4/12 lunchtime run
7.85km, 0:40, 5:06/km
Easy recovery run as was still bushed from previous day's long run and slept badly with quad aches, etc.

Went to go for a post-work swim and realised when I got there that I'd left my swim gear at work :mad:. I had also intended doing a Thurs am swim as the pool is closed after that until Sun so I ended up missing two swims . Decided to get up early anyway Thurs and do a decent brick session as punishment :rolleyes:.

Thurs 19/4/12 am Brick
Was going to do a VO2 Turbo session but the weather looked decent so took the opportunity to go outdoors.
Cycle - 39.45km, 1:32:47, 25.6kph. Newport, Boarmans Hill, Boher Church
Run - 6.16km, 30:26, 4:56/km
Legs felt strong on run and could've kept going. Happy with the pace
Bright morning but too cold for shorts and fingerless gloves :rolleyes:.

Izoard

Hey Red - good to see you getting into your stride...

I'd go for the Double Oly at Athy - I did both it and Tri and Mhi last year, in the absence of doing a spring marathon and they both helped with the confidence levels prior to Roth.

However, handangeo's Super Crazy Athy Weekend (tm) is to be avoided:)


+1 on mcos' comment re; your biking - doing the hill work will really stand to you on the day.

handangeo

Izoard wrote: »

Hey Red - good to see you getting into your stride...

I'd go for the Double Oly at Athy - I did both it and Tri and Mhi last year, in the absence of doing a spring marathon and they both helped with the confidence levels prior to Roth.

However, handangeo's Super Crazy Athy Weekend (tm) is to be avoided:)


+1 on mcos' comment re; your biking - doing the hill work will really stand to you on the day.

handangeo's Super Crazy Athy Weekend (tm) is open to everyone.....come and join the pain gang

RedB

Thanks but I'll be in the Tri-an-Mhi pain gang. It was always on my radar and had to commit quick when offered a slot.

As you guys are such uber-cyclists can you answer me this - should I be concentrating on extending my endurance quantity up to 180km+ long rides or should I be pushing in more hills or VO2 quality work or all of the above? :rolleyes:

BennyMul

hey, hope Im not wrong here. if I am forgive me

Personally I would continue to work on increasing the long spins at the weekend, trying to match 1 of the spins to what the route will be like on the day. possibly doing a 25mile loop with a climb similar to race day.
ensureing that you do have a number of efforts at IM pace in there.
e.g 5-10 x 10 mile at IM pace.

mid week you can do the higher intensity efforts, either a muscular endurance\Tempo effort or something harder or both if you recover correctly.

RedB

BennyMul wrote: »

ensureing that you do have a number of efforts at IM pace in there.
e.g 5-10 x 10 mile at IM pace.

Thanks BM I did think that my endurance will be my main limiter over the IM distance. However I'm a bit lost at the notion of IM pace as I don't have power and I don't usually have HR (can't find strap at the moment :rolleyes:) so I trundle along at what I think is a steady sustainable effort. This means I'm generally cruising at the same pace on the flat with slower and faster sections into/with wind, hills. If I'm with others we might push on for sections if someone gets a rush of blood to the head but generally its a one pace show .
My fundamental question is should IM pace be faster or slower than my 'normal' steady pace?

BennyMul

My understanding of IM pace is an effort I can maintain for 6+ hours leaving enough energy to run\walk\crawl for 4+ hours after;).

if you plan to do the bike leg in 6 hours then your IM pace is 18.6mph or 29.8kph
so for example you could try the 5-10 10mile efforts at 20mph,

RedB

So I should be going slower in between those efforts?

BennyMul

Yep,
the length and how easy will depend on you;),
You should not be that tired after the rep, so for the first few weeks you could drop back to your normal endurance pace for a period time.
this recovery time will depend on how much the rep took out of you, if you find that you are suffering to hold the pace then you will need a longer break. I usually use the 10% rule if my power drops\HR rises over 10% then I call it quits for the reps. I would continue to finish the spin but no more intensity reps, If I continue the reps after this point you dont get the same return and may impact your next session.

the 10% will be hard to gauge for speed as wind, hills etc will vary this.
so find the hr strap.

RedB

BennyMul wrote: »

Yep,
the length and how easy will depend on you;),
You should not be that tired after the rep, so for the first few weeks you could drop back to your normal endurance pace for a period time.
this recovery time will depend on how much the rep took out of you, if you find that you are suffering to hold the pace then you will need a longer break. I usually use the 10% rule if my power drops\HR rises over 10% then I call it quits for the reps. I would continue to finish the spin but no more intensity reps, If I continue the reps after this point you dont get the same return and may impact your next session.

the 10% will be hard to gauge for speed as wind, hills etc will vary this.
so find the hr strap.

BM, this may sound simple and obvious to you buts its absolute GOLD to me. Much appreciate it.:)

BennyMul

you have me paranoid, I hope I didnt come across as patronising
I hope it helps and I want wrong with the advice
any questions just shout,

Izoard

BennyMul wrote: »

My understanding of IM pace is an effort I can maintain for 6+ hours leaving enough energy to run\walk\crawl for 4+ hours after;).

if you plan to do the bike leg in 6 hours then your IM pace is 18.6mph or 29.8kph
so for example you could try the 5-10 10mile efforts at 20mph,

Another Q from the Pacing for Dummies section...

Is there a way to calculate this, if you have not done an IM previously?

For example, the aspiration might be to do a 6hr bike/ 4 hr run, but what might the indicators be from current training, that this is a reasonable expectation?

BennyMul

Izoard wrote: »

Another Q from the Pacing for Dummies section...

Is there a way to calculate this, if you have not done an IM previously?

For example, the aspiration might be to do a 6hr bike/ 4 hr run, but what might the indicators be from current training, that this is a reasonable expectation?

they est. when you do your FTP test measure the HR over the second half of the test and use between 79 and 88% of this value for your IM HR Range, the problem I have with HR is that it varies and is influenced by so many outside factors.

So as we are new to IM and without the knowledge of actually suffering through one you will not know your own limitations.
that is why I believe you begin to work on the desired pace you quickly learn if it is within your current ability or not,
if you cant maintain the effort or you can but unable to "walk" getting off the bike in training they you need to look at dropping the pace, or vice versa if luckily.

After a number of weeks you will begin to know your own ranges, and will become familiar with your HR zones or RPE, which will help steady you on the day.

I do not know if this is the correct approach, and will probably be wrong:o but it does give real feedback to the rider.

Izoard

BennyMul wrote: »

they est. when you do your FTP test measure the HR over the second half of the test and use between 79 and 88% of this value for your IM HR Range, the problem I have with HR is that it varies and is influenced by so many outside factors.

So as we are new to IM and without the knowledge of actually suffering through one you will not know your own limitations.
that is why I believe you begin to work on the desired pace you quickly learn if it is within your current ability or not,
if you cant maintain the effort or you can but unable to "walk" getting off the bike in training they you need to look at dropping the pace, or vice versa if luckily.

After a number of weeks you will begin to know your own ranges, and will become familiar with your HR zones or RPE, which will help steady you on the day.

I do not know if this is the correct approach, and will probably be wrong:o but it does give real feedback to the rider.

Cheers...despite all the good advice, I still train totally by feel - must break open the HR strap some day.

BennyMul

Izoard wrote: »

Cheers...despite all the good advice, I still train totally by feel - must break open the HR strap some day.

Different strokes for different folks, I get too bogged down in numbers and forget how to train on feeling,
At the end of the day (and I will kick myself for saying this) but your body knows best, if your tired you dont need a power meter or HR to tell you.

RedB

Fri 20/4/12 - Rest. Travel to Dublin with work.

Sat 21/4/12 - Long Cycle.
132km, 4:50, 27.3kph
Following my glowing report of the decent road conditions on the Kerry road last week, 5 of us headed out that road again at 7am with various time restrictions. 1 turned at Adare and 1 turned at Rathkeale and the other 3 of us continued past NCW and up the old road to the top of the hill before turning and coming down the new road and back to Limerick. We had a few quick stops and I tried to get the IM pacing thing going regularily but it was a bit haphazard with us hitting much faster paces at times :rolleyes:. We had a bit of a minor scare then in Adare when 1 guy came off the bike on oil and I fell over due to not unclipping in time whilst trying to avoid him, stop and negotiate traffic . He was a bit cut and shaken but no serious damage. We arrived home after approx 107km and I still had plenty of fuel in the tank (or so I thought) :rolleyes: so I added on a loop to Abington, Boher Church but was definitely feeling the effort over the last 10km which ended up into a bit of a headwind and not fueled properly. Took 1 gel at 1.75hrs and another at 3hrs. A quick shower and gobbled down a few hang sambos before driving back out to Rathkeale to support No 1 in the GAA Football Feile which the family had been at all morning. They won and the mood was good all round so off to Micky Ds after for a bit of a celebration . Result. Feeling good afterwards. A bit tired but satisfied .

RedB

Into the Peak training phase now but my pre-IMAT races are all coming up in the next few weeks so that'll throw the plan off slightly to accomodate them. Joey is this weekend, GLR HM is the next weekend and Tri an Mhi is the weekend after. Finalising the last of the logistics also for Austria with new passport received and car hire and accomodation about to be booked. The 2 older kids are probably going to do the IronKids event over there for the craic so there's a bit of a buzz in the house about that with them asking me about training :cool:. The old man might know something after all :rolleyes:. My new mantra on long runs, cycles is "This is Ironman" as I'm trying to focus on and enjoy the process of getting there. Its much better than the usual one of "Are we there yet?" .
I rested up properly on Sunday with good sleep and a quality family day but I was feeling the tiredness still from the long cycle and my legs seemed to tighten over the day. I should have tried some stretching as they were dead on Monday and took a bit out of me to get them back.

Mon 23/4/12 - lunchtime run and pm tri club swim session
11km with 5x1min pickups after 10min, 0:58?, 5:16/km? very dead legs

Swim session was focused on pre-Joey prep.
400m WU
8X50m - 50m FC (0:57-1:03,27spl), jump out, walk to other end of pool, repeat. Chatted to BennyMul during walks
8x50m - (0:59-1:02, 28spl) 12.5m hard, 37.5m easy
4x50m - (1:02-1:05, 30spl) group starts. 5-6 go at the one time in the one lane
4x50m - (1:01 - 1:10, 30spl). Sighting on 6 strokes.

Tues 24/4/12 - LSR
22KM, 2:00:55, 5:30/Km
Quads tight and a bit achy throughout. Need to do some :rolleyes: stretching as becoming a limiter

shotgunmcos

Hey RedB

Joey Olympic, GLR HM and a HIM on consecutive weekends is a tall order IMO. With IM fitness on board at this stage you might have the capacity to get nice results from all 3 but at what cost? Have you thought about your appoach to the 3 as a whole?

RedB

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Hey RedB

Joey Olympic, GLR HM and a HIM on consecutive weekends is a tall order IMO. With IM fitness on board at this stage you might have the capacity to get nice results from all 3 but at what cost? Have you thought about your appoach to the 3 as a whole?

You're forgetting that I don't do "nice" results . I'm treating all of them as general training days although I'm toying with the idea of racing the HM to try and go sub 1:40 as a PB (and seeing as Oryx did 1:38:xx last weekend ). The flip side of that is I'm also toying with the idea of a 160km cycle the day before GLR HM around Lough Derg (maybe with the Tri IM group if it gets organised?) specifically so I can run it on tired legs. Joey and Tri an Mhi will be more tri practice runs than all out efforts. I have a history of overcooking (due to undertraining :rolleyes:) so I want to try and pace them right - even at Oly and HIM paces and actually finish the runs without stopping .

catweazle

I find its almost an eternal problem for me, I am keen to do a race but then I start thinking with the rest days before and after I would be better off doing the long training sessions over the weekend instead.

The two I try to do each year before the Humbert are on the weeks when I am supposed to be hitting my peak mileage hence hesitancy. I am not too worried about the Galway Cope Triathlon on the 8th as that is only down the road and will be a bit of a blowout but Kilkee I would like to get a decent time but worried that will take too much downtime, with Mrs C and the young lad off to Portugal the week of Kilkee its set up perfectly for a big week training that I will not get again during the lead up :mad: