Bond 23 - "Skyfall" *spoilers from post 595*

krudler

Corholio wrote: »

From Russia With Love and I'd consider On Her Majesty's Secret Service great, despite the problem people have with Lazenby, it's still a really good film. Goldeneye is great as a Bond film, although I know why people don't like it as a standalone film.

Goldeneye has some terrible stuff in it as well though, and possibly the worst score of any of the Bond movies.

Grimebox

krudler wrote: »

Goldeneye has some terrible stuff in it as well though, and possibly the worst score of any of the Bond movies.

You take that back :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkBYVNrjjIs

To be honest every Bond song has been fairly rubbish imo

Doctor DooM

syklops wrote: »

The parents dying young has been a part of Bond culture for decades. It's part of the back story and certainly wasn't influenced by Batman.

What exactly was your IT problem? Not sure I understand.

Well, I'm not a huge Bond fanboy, but isn't there a portion of the fan base who don't believe anything of the sort, who think it's a code name rather than a name? They must be browned now (although personally I'm fine with it).

Allowing Silva's computer onto the network while boasting about how awesome you are with security was really, really bad to me. You might argue ignore it, suspension of disbelief etc but it's worse than that, I knew the second he picked up the ethernet cable exactly how Silva was going to escape. I still thought it was a good film overall, though.

krudler wrote: »

Bond being an orphan was already established in Casino Royale though.

Ok, was it established he lived in Wayne Manor with Alfred too?

Just to point out I don't think these are bad things, it's just along side with the swelling music in the score and the "broken wreck redeeming himself" plotline it all got a bit... Batty.

Sleepy

LordSutch wrote: »

I saw Skyfall the other night: Great Film I thought, great stunts, good soundtrack, classic cars, and I think Craig makes a good bond too, but I also noticed a subtle change in Bond's nationality, apparently hs's not British anymore but 'English' there is also talk of England, & the English Empire :cool:

I wonder why the subtle change after 50 years?

Erm,

Skyfall is clearly in Scotland. Bond was first played on screen by a man with a strong Scottish accent, I thought it was pretty clear: Bond was a Scottish orphan raised in an English prep school (I remember Eton being mentioned in connection with Bond before?). He grew up being ashamed of his background and ended up more English than his childhood tormentors... At least that's how I've always seen it.

Outside of Moore's Chop Socky Bond, there have always been nods to him being a troubled man: in Brosnan's movies you had the cocktail and chat by the sea with Natalya Simonov, the taunts from Trevelyan, Q's grandfatherly advice about "never let them see you bleed and always have a way out". In Dalton's we had him go rogue, barely hold himself together when Felix Leighter's new wife suggests they find a bride for him etc. Even Lazenby's Bond who only had one movie lost his wife in it.

Now, you could argue they're overplaying the "physical and emotional wreck" card a bit with Craig's Bond. For me, I see that as part of the reboot: in Craig's run to date we're seeing the wounds that cause him to be so distant and cold in later stories (the older movies). I don't think it's that linear but

the end of Skyfall seems to me to be leaving Bond as the older Bond: with a posh male M whose leather covered door is guarded by a woman Bond has a history with and enough respect for that he doesn't treat her like one of his disposable conquests...

As a fan of the series for more than 20 years I certainly wasn't disappointed by this film. It's bringing back some of the elements of Bond that I loved in the first place whilst cutting out some of the worst excess and nonsense that crept in over Brosnan's run. I felt his run suffered badly from movie-writing by committee: Goldeneye was excellent, the less said about the rest, the better tbh. They need to simply hire good writers and let them run with the character.

Ellian

In the original books, I think the only reference to Bonds early years was that he had a Scottish father and a Swiss (I think) mother who were killed in a car crash when he was pretty young. I think this was written by Fleming after Connery had first made an appearance in the movies, so very possibly influenced Fleming in this biographical detail.

krudler

Sleepy wrote: »

Now, you could argue they're overplaying the "physical and emotional wreck" card a bit with Craig's Bond. For me, I see that as part of the reboot: in Craig's run to date we're seeing the wounds that cause him to be so distant and cold in later stories (the older movies). I don't think it's that linear but

the end of Skyfall seems to me to be leaving Bond as the older Bond: with a posh male M whose leather covered door is guarded by a woman Bond has a history with and enough respect for that he doesn't treat her like one of his disposable conquests...

Thats a good point about

Moneypenny, its a nice start to the character and the fact she shot him in the opening gives them something to verbally banter about in later episodes. If you look at the Craig reboot as him not being quite a chauvinist until Vespa is taken from him, now he just sport fcuks and doesnt get involved, Moneypenny is someone he won't go near but will flirt with constantly, and he'll see the new M as the replacement for the one he probably loved and loathed in equal measure, it sets up a lot of promising stuff for the next instalments.

how many is Craig signed on for, 5?

Stark

norrie rugger wrote: »

For me it is not a deal breaker, they needed to get Silva out and they did it but I would not have minded Bond saying "Should we be connecting this to our system?" and Q being over-confidant and dismissive saying "we have protocols for this". No explinations necessary after that.

"It's a Mac, James. They don't get viruses".

Penn

krudler wrote: »

Thats a good point about

Moneypenny, its a nice start to the character and the fact she shot him in the opening gives them something to verbally banter about in later episodes. If you look at the Craig reboot as him not being quite a chauvinist until Vespa is taken from him, now he just sport fcuks and doesnt get involved, Moneypenny is someone he won't go near but will flirt with constantly, and he'll see the new M as the replacement for the one he probably loved and loathed in equal measure, it sets up a lot of promising stuff for the next instalments.

how many is Craig signed on for, 5?

Yeah, I think I read somewhere (or possibly here) that the next 2 Bond films (Craig's 4th and 5th) will be a two-part story.

Plus, reports are that they've approached Idris Elba about becoming Bond after Daniel Craig. Don't see why as it's a while away yet

krudler

Penn wrote: »

Yeah, I think I read somewhere (or possibly here) that the next 2 Bond films (Craig's 4th and 5th) will be a two-part story.

Plus, reports are that they've approached Idris Elba about becoming Bond after Daniel Craig. Don't see why as it's a while away yet

Elba would be a great choice if they do go down that route

Penn

Definitely, although presuming it takes another 4 years for the next two Bond films to come out, Elba will be 44. I'm not sure he'd get a good enough run at it to be honest, given that Daniel Craig is now 44 but has already done 3 films.

Paudie223

krudler wrote: »

Elba would be a great choice if they do go down that route

Elba is black, if they wanted to go down that route then yes he would be a good choice as he is a good actor. I am just not sure it would be the right choice.

Rumblings are that they are planning on shooting 2 movies together, back to back and releasing them 12 months apart. The idea and plot was pitched by Logan to the Bond producers whilst filming skyfall.

This would probably be best way of getting as much as possible out of Craig. He will not be as fresh looking in a few years but of course I may be wrong.

krudler

Paudie223 wrote: »

Elba is black, if they wanted to go down that route then yes he would be a good choice as he is a good actor. I am just not sure it would be the right choice.

Rumblings are that they are planning on shooting 2 movies together, back to back and releasing them 12 months apart. The idea and plot was pitched by Logan to the Bond producers whilst filming skyfall.

This would probably be best way of getting as much as possible out of Craig. He will not be as fresh looking in a few years but of course I may be wrong.

WHAT?! :eek:

krudler

You know who'd make a good Bond? Michael Fassbender. with Benedict Cumberbatch as a villain.

Paudie223

krudler wrote: »

WHAT?! :eek:

Which part of my post are you in disbelief about?

krudler

Paudie223 wrote: »

Whicht part of my post are you in disbelief about?

Elba being black, he hides it so well.

Paudie223

krudler wrote: »

Elba being black, he hides it so well.

I was just pointing it out as some people may not be familiar with him.

Temaz

I'd go for Tom Hardy as the next Bond.

Sleepy

So, let's be honest, there can't be too many black men in their 30's that have a Scottish father and a Swiss mother...

A black actor playing Bond wouldn't stand a chance: his contributions would be dismissed as getting the role for the sake of being PC before the cameras even started to roll. And, if I'm honest, I think the criticism of the decision would be a fair one even if I'd hold my judgement on the actor until I'd seen his performance.

krudler

Sleepy wrote: »

So, let's be honest, there can't be too many black men in their 30's that have a Scottish father and a Swiss mother...

A black actor playing Bond wouldn't stand a chance: his contributions would be dismissed as getting the role for the sake of being PC before the cameras even started to roll. And, if I'm honest, I think the criticism of the decision would be a fair one even if I'd hold my judgement on the actor until I'd seen his performance.

This has been discussed before regarding race and iconic character recasting, I think as long as the actor was right for the job then it wouldnt really matter, parts have been recast before but it'd be like having a black Superman, its just not who the person was written as. BUT, I like Elba, I think he's a damn good actor and he definitely has the look of someone who could pull off the role, so his colour wouldnt be an issue in that sense.

Paudie223

Temaz wrote: »

I'd go for Tom Hardy as the next Bond.

I think Hardy would be the type of actor that would turn the Bond role down, Fassbender too. They would want to avoid being typecast I think but also they are already popular actors, they don't need Bond. Fassbender would be my pick of the two.

Penn

Sleepy wrote: »

So, let's be honest, there can't be too many black men in their 30's that have a Scottish father and a Swiss mother...

A black actor playing Bond wouldn't stand a chance: his contributions would be dismissed as getting the role for the sake of being PC before the cameras even started to roll. And, if I'm honest, I think the criticism of the decision would be a fair one even if I'd hold my judgement on the actor until I'd seen his performance.

In most cases, if they picked someone black to be Bond it might cross my mind as being a bit PC. But Idris Elba is just too good an actor for his casting to be considered to be for the purposes of being PC. If he was interested in playing Bond, I'd definitely want to see him in the role, for no other reason than because I think he'd be absolutely amazing. Same with Fassbender. Not British, but would be great in the role. Elba isn't white, but would be great in the role.

Ridley

I'm in this sort of limbo where I can see it wasn't a bad film but it wasn't the Bond I wanted. Part of why I didn't like Quantum was because I felt like it was starting to creep back into the tropes of the first twenty that Casino Royale nicely did away with and Skyfall goes farther.

I guess if Casino Royale never happened I'd hold Skyfall in higher regard but I like "Bourne-lite" Craig Bond and don't want to lose that. I have GoldenEye for "classic Bond" and nineteen others to fall back on if needed. Well not Die Another Day obviously but you know what I mean.

syklops

norrie rugger wrote: »

All we see is him connecting an ethernet cable. Are you telling me that there would not be seperate networks for the door security as there would be for the Q branch and their crazy high-jinks? For me it is not a deal breaker, they needed to get Silva out and they did it but I would not have minded Bond saying "Should we be connecting this to our system?" and Q being over-confidant and dismissive saying "we have protocols for this". No explinations necessary after that.

It would be a bit silly showing Bond to have better network security awareness than Q.

Silva had already shown he could breach anything. I would say he had already backdoored MI6' sytems. Connecting the laptop might have done nothing else than signal to an outside server that the laptop was inside MI6 and that therefore Silva was inside MI6 and needs some doors opened. Even connecting the laptop to the system would not have been necessary, just turning it on would have been enough if it had a built in GPRS/3G modem.

Anyway we are seriously nit picking now.

Sleepy

I could see Elba being great in a Bond-like role but I just can't see a black Bond as being the same character. It'd be akin to casting a female Bond imo.

Would be great to see him as 006 though!

Penn

Sleepy wrote: »

I could see Elba being great in a Bond-like role but I just can't see a black Bond as being the same character. It'd be akin to casting a female Bond imo.

It'd hardly be that big a leap. Female Bond means no flirting with Moneypenny. No 'Bond Women' (unless she's lesbian). Probably no huge fistfights with big goons. A lot of what Bond is known for would have to be substantially changed.

Black Bond means everything stays the same. Except he's black.

Soby

So with M dying according to Wiki this is here last bond? , is this confirmed

Loved it anyway myself . Cant fault anything bar a few ifs and whys , but hey , its a movie , and bloody good one at that

Sleepy

Fair point. Though a Black Bond wouldn't be a quintessentially British agent of Scottish / Swiss descent, Eton educated and from Oxford.

Maybe in twenty or thirty years time when the world is more multi-cultural but at present, you'd have to give him such a different background to explain the change of skin colour that you'd be changing the nature of the character.

senordingdong

Then in twenty years we can get a gay Bond. And after another twenty years, a female Bond.

dastardly00

Penn wrote: »

Yeah, I think I read somewhere (or possibly here) that the next 2 Bond films (Craig's 4th and 5th) will be a two-part story.

Plus, reports are that they've approached Idris Elba about becoming Bond after Daniel Craig. Don't see why as it's a while away yet

Idris Elba is a great actor, but I associate him with being Stringer Bell in The Wire!

PerrinV2

dastardly00 wrote: »

Idris Elba is a great actor, but I associate him with being Stringer Bell in The Wire!

Hey you ain't got the floor,the chair don't recognise yo ass!!