Waterford is dying...

teaspach

From 1995 to 1999 I went to college in WIT. I have only been back a couple of times. I always felt it was the forgotten city. My most recent visit was just last weekend. I could scarcely believe my eyes. It had had the appearance of a city that was literally dying. It seems to have slipped back since I was in college.

It's a real shame... and I don't know what the solution is. It's a pity Waterford couldn't have attracted either that Google data center that went to Grange Castle in Dublin, or those IT jobs that went to Tralee. It really needs a large boost...

dayshah

There all this talk about our lack of a university, M&S, bla, bla, bla.

What Waterford needs is a niche cluster. Galway has its medical devices, Cork its pharmaceuticals. Waterford needs one niche, and to become the best in the world at it.

bradolf pittler

john roberts sq is a ghost town after 6 pm,buildings like the old cinema and the de la salle center are lying idle for years now and thats just naming 2,i really fear for this town

mickmcl09

One of the main reasons Waterford City is dying is 'cost of parking' and rates. Not too far away, Clonmel and Kilkenny are thriving. Parking costs a fraction of what it does here.

The Corporation needs to wake up and realise that that City businesses are on their knees.

Secondly, the lack of employment, (from reading 2 other threads on Waterford)you could blame lack of a university or for some reason some people feel the City have a 'unionised' reputation, neither of which IMO have a hugh effect(yes they are factors) but, it is the local Politicians who have alot to answer for. In Kerry they had Healy-Rae holding the govt to ransom. Cork City and Galway City are always better represented at the cabinet table. There-in lies the Cities biggest stumbling block.

The City had an Airport, but only improved the road out to it in recent times. Shannon Industrial Estate beside the Airport has a tax free Zone. There's no reason why Waterford could have the same!

The City had a super Quay facility, lying idle.
Putting up fancy areas on the Quay, while it looks nice, it's only lip service. How many businesses could be availing of these facilities especially on the Ferrybank side.

The TDs, the Corporation, the IDA and the Chamber of Commerce along with a few others need to pull their fingers out.

mikemac

There is that reputation Waterford has, people know about the dockers strike and how long that lasted and the cities reputation for militant union activity.

The dockers strike is history now but not forgotten.

ROCKMAN

mikemac wrote: »

There is that reputation Waterford has, people know about the dockers strike and how long that lasted and the cities reputation for militant union activity.

The dockers strike is history now but not forgotten.

I personally think that a certain serial objector has done more harm to the city that the dockers or so called militant unions ever did.

DaleB91

Im born in Waterford, lived in the city for 11 years then the boom came and moved to the country side but still go in most days and like all i see EVERYDAY i go in is romanians begging, people looking for a euro, people without jobs buildings that wont for a long time see any use and heroin addicts. The state of Waterford is pure ****e! I went to Dublin during last week and i know theres alot more people in Dublin but shops were busier, less places lying dormant and a place that seems like its trying to recover from a recession. Waterford looks like the slum city in Ireland and why is this? I blame alot of it on the polititions, they Waterford glass center is going to go **** so watch that space!! But also I think anything Waterford did have has packed its bags and gone for cheaper work! What can people do? I reckon if you opened up a supermarket like Aldi or Lidl with low prices but everything was only Irish then the price would be lower, people would prefer to put money into the economy and you'd make a fortune. If i had some sort of savings Id be 100% looking into doing this and i think its a shame it hasnt been done. I could be wrong altogether but i think alot of people will agree.

Marchandire

ROCKMAN wrote: »

I personally think that a certain serial objector has done more harm to the city that the dockers or so called militant unions ever did.

Are you suggesting that if we'd had more property development in during the boom years, we would be better off now?

All of the Celtic Tiger development was debt driven - if developers had been given their way, we'd have more ghost estates and empty houses, more derelict shopping centres and more half-empty apartment blocks. And even more debt to pay off.

Property developers didn't care about the long term economic health of Waterford City. They were in it for the tax breaks and the quick profits. They didn't care whether 'Marks and Spencers' came to Waterford, nor did they invest their profits in sustainable businesses in the City. They cut and ran, or went bust.

Regardless of his motivations, Brendan McCann actually saved Waterford taxpayers a lot of money.

ROCKMAN

Marchandire wrote: »

Are you suggesting that if we'd had more property development in during the boom years, we would be better off now?

All of the Celtic Tiger development was debt driven - if developers had been given their way, we'd have more ghost estates and empty houses, more derelict shopping centres and more half-empty apartment blocks. And even more debt to pay off.

Property developers didn't care about the long term economic health of Waterford City. They were in it for the tax breaks and the quick profits. They didn't care whether 'Marks and Spencers' came to Waterford, nor did they invest their profits in sustainable businesses in the City. They cut and ran, or went bust.

Regardless of his motivations, Brendan McCann actually saved Waterford taxpayers a lot of money.

No but maybe the city centre would not be such a ghost town now ,if some of the ideas and plans over the years had opened or developed .

washman3

If its any colsolation folks, Limerick city is in the same boat and in my honest opinion,far worse. everything that has been said about Waterford here is replicated in Limerick and im sure the same applies to others areas of the country too. Limerick city centre is now a dead duck. Shannon airport a virtual ghost town. Just wondering when will our government wake up and invest money properly, rather throwing it into the black holes that are our zombie banks.

seanybiker

washman3 wrote: »

If its any colsolation folks, Limerick city is in the same boat and in my honest opinion,far worse. everything that has been said about Waterford here is replicated in Limerick and im sure the same applies to others areas of the country too. Limerick city centre is now a dead duck. Shannon airport a virtual ghost town. Just wondering when will our government wake up and invest money properly, rather throwing it into the black holes that are our zombie banks.

I see where your coming from in fairness but if I have the manflu. Knowing someone else has it aswell doesn't make me feel better about it. If ya know what I mean.

mikemac

dayshah wrote: »

What Waterford needs is a niche cluster. Galway has its medical devices, Cork its pharmaceuticals. Waterford needs one niche, and to become the best in the world at it.

The last big area and I suppose it's still doing fairly well is financial services. Cork has thousands employed in funds industry.

Wexford has some too. As does Louth.

I think there is a firm in Waterford but I've forgotten their name.
Makes sense most are in the IFSC in Dublin
But Cork was a big winner there too

decies

At the end of the day the only people that can save our city is our selves .At the height of that so called Celtic tiger more of a false economy but anyway a huge amount of Waterford people headed off on dedicated shopping trips to new York and across the border.The people from south Kilkenny actually were more loyal to Waterford than local themselves. The so called Waterford middle classes completely lost the run of themselves , we will head down to cork or head to Kilkenny rather than support the locals. Somebody described it well to me , we became in fact " n word" rich. So now we find ourselves broke and disillusioned , what's the solution , well maybe a good start would be to return to our working class roots which this city always has being , and try in whatever small way we can to support or city and our lovely countryside , in whatever way we can. At the end of the day Waterfords future is in our own hands.

deiseabu

Very astute post Decies and hits the nail absolutely on the head. Yes we need outside help and intervention, but we absolutely need to start helping ourselves first. Our city centre retail offering and night life offering may not be what it should and could be, but if we don't support what is there then it will continue in a downward spiral. As you said our middle classes have moaned and groaned about the grass being greener on the other side, well it's time to front up now and show a bit of civic pride. I think we have a city manager with a reasonable vision and considerable drive and his and the city council efforts in the Viking Triangle are commendable. More needs to be done on the retail front, reducing parking costs may be a big help as mentioned. Our landlord classes need to play their part by reducing commercial rents to make running retail businesses more afordable. Lots of potential remedies, most of which lie in our own hands, we have a great city, it's time for us all to increase our contribution to its wellbeing in whatever way we can.

Popquiz_hotshot

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14774526

Would this be the way to go??????:rolleyes::rolleyes:

merlante

I think Waterford city centre reached its lowest point around 2007 and has improved dramatically since. The main reason why the city is quieter now than in the past is because people moved from the centre out to places like the Dunmore rd., etc., over the past couple of decades, and come in very rarely.

Yes, there is unemployment, but unemployment was the same or worse in the late 80's when the town would have been a lot busier. So a bit of perspective regarding the so-called dead city centre is in order. It would be more lively if ye all came in and spent yer money, or better yet, lived there. Ardkeen village and the Brasscock, etc., were pretty dead in the 80's weren't they?

It is true that Waterford needs a university and a cluster of high tech industry. That's going to take time. Plenty of moaning ahead, unfortunately, until that happens.

johnnykilo

dayshah wrote: »

There all this talk about our lack of a university, M&S, bla, bla, bla.

What Waterford needs is a niche cluster. Galway has its medical devices, Cork its pharmaceuticals. Waterford needs one niche, and to become the best in the world at it.

There is some good work going on in the TSSG (has been for years) but funding is now starting to be the issue according to someone I was talking to the other day. It's fairly well renowned as one of the top telecommunications research centres in Europe and I see they've just announced this in the last day so hopefully it will do some good:

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/innovation/item/23872-tssg-and-itlg-to-establish/

dayshah

johnnykilo wrote: »

There is some good work going on in the TSSG (has been for years) but funding is now starting to be the issue according to someone I was talking to the other day. It's fairly well renowned as one of the top telecommunications research centres in Europe and I see they've just announced this in the last day so hopefully it will do some good:

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/innovation/item/23872-tssg-and-itlg-to-establish/

Good shtuff

In the end Waterford needs exports. It export jobs that give people the money to spend in pubs and retail.

Nolanger

merlante wrote: »

Yes, there is unemployment, but unemployment was the same or worse in the late 80's when the town would have been a lot busier.

City planning is as much to blame as the recession. Waterford is a doghnut city now with everyone moved out to the suburbs.

dayshah

With the exception of Belfast, we are the closest city to Dublin. That means we compete with them for students for 3rd level, retail etc. With the new motorway this has increased.

We should use this to our advantage.

abouttobebanned

I really believe that it's time for some radical thinking. Why must we follow what every other county does? We're clearly in dire straits down here so we need to act to save ourselves.

At the moment, like the rest of the country we're besotted with the most pointless election and biggest waste of time and money that I've ever seen. Its almost as if when the election is over we'll collectively think "fcuk...we're still in the schit"

What I hate about ireland is that we're followers...bloody sheep. Trying to be big boys in the school yard when we're only 4 foot tall. Waterford seem to be doing the same on a national level. The last time i was proud to be Irish was when we were the first to bring in the smoking ban. Fair play I thought, some forward thinking.

This is what's needed.

Professey Chin

The biggest problem is with the way this country is setup, you dont get into any power here by being a forward thinker.
You gotta work your way up a slimy ladder with your tongue in every decrepid wasters arse. Anything else and youre seen as a trouble maker.

dayshah

Lets have ourselves a theme park, something like Alton Towers.

It'd be the only one in Ireland (apart from Mr Tayto's thingy). People would travel to it. You'd get there in 2 hours from Dublin. A thing like that needs a lot of land, which is still too expensive in Dublin. This makes Waterford a practical choice.

One unique advantage is we are reasonably close (now with the motorway) to Cork and Dublin, but land is cheaper.

The obvious location would be Tramore, though one at the edge of the city would be cool, and having a roller coaster for public transport would be fairly cool.

Nypd

Nolanger wrote: »

City planning is as much to blame as the recession. Waterford is a doghnut city now with everyone moved out to the suburbs.

Spreading the retail out to the city limits has had to have played it's part in the down turn in the city centre, easy access and FREE parking,
On saying that there seems to be a revival of some retail in the centre, Micheal street being most noticeable, 12 months ago it had a lot if empty units.

Johns street is another spot that has potential to be marketed as a temple bar type area, I know they attempted it a few years back as johns street village, anyone know were that lead to ?

charlemont

dayshah wrote: »

Lets have ourselves a theme park, something like Alton Towers.

It'd be the only one in Ireland (apart from Mr Tayto's thingy). People would travel to it. You'd get there in 2 hours from Dublin. A thing like that needs a lot of land, which is still too expensive in Dublin. This makes Waterford a practical choice.

One unique advantage is we are reasonably close (now with the motorway) to Cork and Dublin, but land is cheaper.

The obvious location would be Tramore, though one at the edge of the city would be cool, and having a roller coaster for public transport would be fairly cool.

Its a good idea but An Bord Planeala, Bord Failte and An Taisce would have a field day over it, Not to mention the objections that would come from Tramores residents and established business people, They don't want change unfortunately..

abouttobebanned

That's the kind of radical thinking I'm talking about though. Next up...our own currency...

merlante

Nolanger wrote: »

City planning is as much to blame as the recession. Waterford is a doghnut city now with everyone moved out to the suburbs.

I think Waterford has been very progressive in attempts to prioritise the city centre over the outskirts for planning. However, the Irish as a people are working against this. Having the front and back garden on an estate is considered "the dream" for many. Neighbourhood centres creep towards villages in their own right. The culture of apartment living and public parks does not/no longer exists in Ireland. So I don't know what more the council, or even the government can do. It's a cultural thing.

Having said that, *some* town and city centres are considered "cool", and the only place to socialise in the area. People feel that they are missing out if they are not there. Waterford is not in this category, as the majority of people do not come in unless they have to. This is a shame as Waterford city centre has a lot more to offer than previously, especially in terms of cafes and restaurants. And there are still plenty of good pubs. The real point is that if everyone came in to socialise then it would be well worth everyone coming in socialise. Chicken and egg. And again, we've had unemployment before, so unemployment has got nothing to do with it.

Max Powers

merlante wrote: »

.... so unemployment has got nothing to do with it.

It has a lot to do with it, less money for eating out, nights out, paying for events, taxis, etc.

abouttobebanned

What he means though is during the "boom" Waterford city centre was still a ghost town after 6pm. It has a lot to do with the parking down there and all the focus on bars and takeaways at John street

Marchandire

decies wrote: »

At the end of the day the only people that can save our city is our selves .At the height of that so called Celtic tiger more of a false economy but anyway a huge amount of Waterford people headed off on dedicated shopping trips to new York and across the border.The people from south Kilkenny actually were more loyal to Waterford than local themselves. The so called Waterford middle classes completely lost the run of themselves , we will head down to cork or head to Kilkenny rather than support the locals. Somebody described it well to me , we became in fact " n word" rich. So now we find ourselves broke and disillusioned , what's the solution , well maybe a good start would be to return to our working class roots which this city always has being , and try in whatever small way we can to support or city and our lovely countryside , in whatever way we can. At the end of the day Waterfords future is in our own hands.

I agree with you 100%. I'd add something else: Waterford people seem to be in a state of denial regarding how we got here. When I see see people blaming Brendan McCann for somehow retarding development in Waterford, or blaming the unions for our lack of jobs - it boggles the mind.

We need to identify the problem before we can fix it - but too many people in this city just want to hang the blame on easy scapegoats.

Straight Talker

The only cities in ireland that are any way vibrant is Cork and Dublin.I don't consider Galway to be a city.Waterford despite it's neglect is a much nicer city than Limerick and it's city centre is bigger than Galway's.So the potential is there.

Junior

For all the BS about Nama and them giving money to builders to finish off projects, this city centre is crying out for a project to be started that's been cut down at the start, you'd wonder why isn't anyone asking for it to be completed in some shape or form so that the city centre can get some life put back into it..

Partizan

mikemac wrote: »

There is that reputation Waterford has, people know about the dockers strike and how long that lasted and the cities reputation for militant union activity.

The dockers strike is history now but not forgotten.

So it's the unions/Jimmy Kelly/Workers Party/SWP/RBB/Lizard People/insert other imagined Lefty scapegoat/ fault for Waterford's economic depression. Nothing to to do with poor economic, social and spatial planning by local and national government that has left the city and the region bereft of any proper public transport, university, sustainable jobs etc. I suppose Jimmy Kelly closed the Waterford-Tramore, Waterford-Mallow, Waterford-Rosslare rail lines which happen(ed) to be important pieces of civil infrastructure that woudl have aided development of the city and the region as a major economic hub.

Some people really need to wise up on this site.

Partizan

Junior wrote: »

For all the BS about Nama and them giving money to builders to finish off projects, this city centre is crying out for a project to be started that's been cut down at the start, you'd wonder why isn't anyone asking for it to be completed in some shape or form so that the city centre can get some life put back into it..

Ferrybank SC is a huge white elephant that cost the bones of €200 million. What makes you think that the Closegate and Bilberry developments would be any different.

At the end of the day, the entire economy from 2002 onwards was built on the back of an unsustainable property/construction bubble fuelled by cheap and easy credit. The bulk of our GNP went into shoebox apartments and other vanity projects. With even a fraction of the money generated during the bubble (2002-07) we could have had world class public infrastructure, public transport, roads, sewerage, water, schools, hospitals etc. All it needed was proper planning and the will to implement it.

Nolanger

Here's why the city is dying: the shops are mostly in the city centre and everyone with money lives outside in the suburbs but as you leave the city these other areas go uphill. So people feel superior up on elevated areas and look down on the city centre which is the lowest part of the region. That's why they don't want to visit the shops as it's beneath them. It's a psychological thing.

dayshah

charlemont wrote: »

Its a good idea but An Bord Planeala, Bord Failte and An Taisce would have a field day over it, Not to mention the objections that would come from Tramores residents and established business people, They don't want change unfortunately..

Ah, I thought of that. I'd give free life-time passes to their children. Pester power will make them cave


Also, I'd like Waterford to be the food capital of Ireland. There is already some good work being done on promoting this.

In terms of town twinning, I think we should embrace our Viking heritage and link up with towns in Denmark. Denmark has a great record in terms of town planning, so there could be practical advise given.

I derelict order the fvck out of the city centre. Any derelict buildings that aren't historically relevant would be flattened and turned into car parks until a better plan comes along.

I'm also a BIG fan of having underground car parks, and covering the top with grass. They do it in lots of European cities. I'd excavate all of Ballybricken 3 storeys deep, putting in a car park, and then cover the top back over with grass so its still a park.

Sikie

One issue which hasn't be brought to the table on Waterford is that in the mid to late 1990s when the structural aid criteria were being decided waterford and the southeast was deemed "rich" in whereas the Borders Midlands and West BMW regions were deemed "poor" hence EU grant aids and other EU supports could be lavished on those regions. This did make the likes of Galway more attractive over Waterford in the last 10 years

dayshah

Here is something interesting from the CSO. http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/economy/current/regincome.pdf

Its from 2008, and a few things have transpired since then.

But anyway, the South-East does better than the BMW regions, and is on par with the South West. I'd reckon the BMW regions have faired fairly badly, because they did get a lot of silly construction jobs during the bubble.

Dublin has the highest, which makes sense as its the administrative centre. If we had a properly implemented spatial strategy Waterford would be the administrative centre for the South-East, and would do better. This would save the taxpayer money, so is in the national interest.

Waterford is richer than Carlow and Kilkenny, and on par with Cork, Tipp, Wexford, so we can't complain too much about being disadvantaged. But this may have changed since 2008. Limerick is actually a fairly high income county (even though the city isn't great due to a doughnut effect).

comeraghs

do your bit to bring some life to the city & spread the word about this great festival! please!

http://www.imagineartsfestival.com/

danjo-xx

Nolanger wrote: »

Here's why the city is dying: the shops are mostly in the city centre and everyone with money lives outside in the suburbs but as you leave the city these other areas go uphill. So people feel superior up on elevated areas and look down on the city centre which is the lowest part of the region. That's why they don't want to visit the shops as it's beneath them. It's a psychological thing.

:rolleyes:

wmpdd3

Here's why the city is dying: the shops are mostly in the city centre and everyone with money lives outside in the suburbs but as you leave the city these other areas go uphill. So people feel superior up on elevated areas and look down on the city centre which is the lowest part of the region. That's why they don't want to visit the shops as it's beneath them. It's a psychological thing.

I do live outside the city on a hill but I dont have money. If I need to go to town I'll factor the €1.80 for parking into it. I never stay over 1 hr, If I have to stay over 1 hr, I'll walk to town and get the Kenelleys home.

scico rocks

Nolanger wrote: »

Here's why the city is dying: the shops are mostly in the city centre and everyone with money lives outside in the suburbs but as you leave the city these other areas go uphill. So people feel superior up on elevated areas and look down on the city centre which is the lowest part of the region. That's why they don't want to visit the shops as it's beneath them. It's a psychological thing.

Heard it all now.........:rolleyes:

Max Powers

Nolanger wrote: »

Here's why the city is dying: the shops are mostly in the city centre and everyone with money lives outside in the suburbs but as you leave the city these other areas go uphill. So people feel superior up on elevated areas and look down on the city centre which is the lowest part of the region. That's why they don't want to visit the shops as it's beneath them. It's a psychological thing.

I never heard such drivel in my life. What are you basing this on nolanger, extensive research and opinion polls? Most people live outside the city limits as they want their kids to have a good green area to run around, thats where they grew up, less traffic etc.
As far people feeling too superior as to head into the city, complete and utter unfounded nonsense. I have never heard anyone say anything to indicate that.

In my opinion, some people prefer socialising in locals as its handier travel wise and often cheaper

bullpost

I wonder would a light rail system between Waterford and Tramore make the city more attractive as a location?
It would be an easy commute then and would link up the city and coast the same way the dart line does in Dublin?
With low cost of contstruction atm now would be time to do it.
A stop at WIT would make it easy for people to travel to the college as well?

dayshah wrote: »

Lets have ourselves a theme park, something like Alton Towers.

It'd be the only one in Ireland (apart from Mr Tayto's thingy). People would travel to it. You'd get there in 2 hours from Dublin. A thing like that needs a lot of land, which is still too expensive in Dublin. This makes Waterford a practical choice.

One unique advantage is we are reasonably close (now with the motorway) to Cork and Dublin, but land is cheaper.

The obvious location would be Tramore, though one at the edge of the city would be cool, and having a roller coaster for public transport would be fairly cool.

MitchKoobski

Nolanger wrote: »

Here's why the city is dying: the shops are mostly in the city centre and everyone with money lives outside in the suburbs but as you leave the city these other areas go uphill. So people feel superior up on elevated areas and look down on the city centre which is the lowest part of the region. That's why they don't want to visit the shops as it's beneath them. It's a psychological thing.

I live in Cherrymount and I have to go down the hill next to the Ursuline to get on the road to town, and it's kinda hard to look down on people because all I can see is the top of Storm Cinema, Azurri, Ballybeg and the back of The Grange. Does that still count?

alphasounds

KK has 15 min. free parking.
30 min would be acceptable.
Waterford charges straight away.
Not worth the quick drop in at the really great butcher's. Sorry.
There is free shopping at all the private places.
The tough traffic wardens make the situation not better.
As i know the place there is prob. some arraignment with the private parking places or/ and a class excuse not to support the local Business.

dayshah

There are 2 things people want with parking. A guaranteed spot, and that its cheap. It the CC gives free parking it mightn't be used by people shopping.

My solution is to create more spaces (using lots of derelict land) and charging a low price.

Also maybe some more proper bike parking in the centre, so locals don't drive in.

Media999

Parking prices has ruined this city.

decies

By the way if anybody still works down town these days that car park only charges afaik 15 euro for 5 days , hence the reason it seems to be much fuller than normal these days .

bradolf pittler

bradolf pittler wrote: »

john roberts sq is a ghost town after 6 pm,buildings like the old cinema and the de la salle center are lying idle for years now and thats just naming 2,i really fear for this town

Very true. Personally, I think that when they got rid of "red square" and pedestrianised the WHOLE area they actually lost a bit of the buzz and soul from Georges Street/Former Red Square area.

It all looks very bland now with no individuality to it. I was in Glasgow a while ago and they have an almost identical water feature & paved area to John Roberts Square. The difference though is that Glasgow is such a bustling City it doesnt look bad there.

Chiparus

Nolanger wrote: »

Here's why the city is dying: the shops are mostly in the city centre and everyone with money lives outside in the suburbs but as you leave the city these other areas go uphill. So people feel superior up on elevated areas and look down on the city centre which is the lowest part of the region. That's why they don't want to visit the shops as it's beneath them. It's a psychological thing.

Nothing psychological at all.
Actually there are very few shops in town to attract affluent people apart from the bookstore.
Most of the rest sell chinese tat, like Argos etc.
The only half decent food store is in Ardkeen SC.
Plus the traffic on the Dunmore road, the parking and the unsavory "hang abouts" means it is not that attractive.