Waterford is dying...

teaspach · 04-10-2011 10:25PM #1

From 1995 to 1999 I went to college in WIT. I have only been back a couple of times. I always felt it was the forgotten city. My most recent visit was just last weekend. I could scarcely believe my eyes. It had had the appearance of a city that was literally dying. It seems to have slipped back since I was in college.

It's a real shame... and I don't know what the solution is. It's a pity Waterford couldn't have attracted either that Google data center that went to Grange Castle in Dublin, or those IT jobs that went to Tralee. It really needs a large boost...

dayshah · 04-10-2011 10:40PM

There all this talk about our lack of a university, M&S, bla, bla, bla.

What Waterford needs is a niche cluster. Galway has its medical devices, Cork its pharmaceuticals. Waterford needs one niche, and to become the best in the world at it.

bradolf pittler · 04-10-2011 11:18PM

john roberts sq is a ghost town after 6 pm,buildings like the old cinema and the de la salle center are lying idle for years now and thats just naming 2,i really fear for this town

mickmcl09 · 05-10-2011 12:18AM

One of the main reasons Waterford City is dying is 'cost of parking' and rates. Not too far away, Clonmel and Kilkenny are thriving. Parking costs a fraction of what it does here.

The Corporation needs to wake up and realise that that City businesses are on their knees.

Secondly, the lack of employment, (from reading 2 other threads on Waterford)you could blame lack of a university or for some reason some people feel the City have a 'unionised' reputation, neither of which IMO have a hugh effect(yes they are factors) but, it is the local Politicians who have alot to answer for. In Kerry they had Healy-Rae holding the govt to ransom. Cork City and Galway City are always better represented at the cabinet table. There-in lies the Cities biggest stumbling block.

The City had an Airport, but only improved the road out to it in recent times. Shannon Industrial Estate beside the Airport has a tax free Zone. There's no reason why Waterford could have the same!

The City had a super Quay facility, lying idle.
Putting up fancy areas on the Quay, while it looks nice, it's only lip service. How many businesses could be availing of these facilities especially on the Ferrybank side.

The TDs, the Corporation, the IDA and the Chamber of Commerce along with a few others need to pull their fingers out.

mikemac · 05-10-2011 12:26AM

There is that reputation Waterford has, people know about the dockers strike and how long that lasted and the cities reputation for militant union activity.

The dockers strike is history now but not forgotten.

ROCKMAN · 05-10-2011 01:04AM

mikemac wrote: »

There is that reputation Waterford has, people know about the dockers strike and how long that lasted and the cities reputation for militant union activity.

The dockers strike is history now but not forgotten.

I personally think that a certain serial objector has done more harm to the city that the dockers or so called militant unions ever did.

DaleB91 · 05-10-2011 01:22AM

Im born in Waterford, lived in the city for 11 years then the boom came and moved to the country side but still go in most days and like all i see EVERYDAY i go in is romanians begging, people looking for a euro, people without jobs

buildings that wont for a long time see any use and heroin addicts. The state of Waterford is pure ****e! I went to Dublin during last week and i know theres alot more people in Dublin but shops were busier, less places lying dormant and a place that seems like its trying to recover from a recession. Waterford looks like the slum city in Ireland and why is this? I blame alot of it on the polititions, they Waterford glass center is going to go **** so watch that space!! But also I think anything Waterford did have has packed its bags and gone for cheaper work! What can people do? I reckon if you opened up a supermarket like Aldi or Lidl with low prices but everything was only Irish then the price would be lower, people would prefer to put money into the economy and you'd make a fortune. If i had some sort of savings Id be 100% looking into doing this and i think its a shame it hasnt been done. I could be wrong altogether but i think alot of people will agree.

Marchandire · 05-10-2011 01:24AM

ROCKMAN wrote: »

I personally think that a certain serial objector has done more harm to the city that the dockers or so called militant unions ever did.

Are you suggesting that if we'd had more property development in during the boom years, we would be better off now?

All of the Celtic Tiger development was debt driven - if developers had been given their way, we'd have more ghost estates and empty houses, more derelict shopping centres and more half-empty apartment blocks. And even more debt to pay off.

Property developers didn't care about the long term economic health of Waterford City. They were in it for the tax breaks and the quick profits. They didn't care whether 'Marks and Spencers' came to Waterford, nor did they invest their profits in sustainable businesses in the City. They cut and ran, or went bust.

Regardless of his motivations, Brendan McCann actually saved Waterford taxpayers a lot of money.

ROCKMAN · 05-10-2011 01:33AM

Marchandire wrote: »

Are you suggesting that if we'd had more property development in during the boom years, we would be better off now?

All of the Celtic Tiger development was debt driven - if developers had been given their way, we'd have more ghost estates and empty houses, more derelict shopping centres and more half-empty apartment blocks. And even more debt to pay off.

Property developers didn't care about the long term economic health of Waterford City. They were in it for the tax breaks and the quick profits. They didn't care whether 'Marks and Spencers' came to Waterford, nor did they invest their profits in sustainable businesses in the City. They cut and ran, or went bust.

Regardless of his motivations, Brendan McCann actually saved Waterford taxpayers a lot of money.

No but maybe the city centre would not be such a ghost town now ,if some of the ideas and plans over the years had opened or developed .

washman3 · 05-10-2011 01:37AM

If its any colsolation folks, Limerick city is in the same boat and in my honest opinion,far worse. everything that has been said about Waterford here is replicated in Limerick and im sure the same applies to others areas of the country too. Limerick city centre is now a dead duck. Shannon airport a virtual ghost town. Just wondering when will our government wake up and invest money properly, rather throwing it into the black holes that are our zombie banks.

seanybiker · 05-10-2011 02:47AM

washman3 wrote: »

If its any colsolation folks, Limerick city is in the same boat and in my honest opinion,far worse. everything that has been said about Waterford here is replicated in Limerick and im sure the same applies to others areas of the country too. Limerick city centre is now a dead duck. Shannon airport a virtual ghost town. Just wondering when will our government wake up and invest money properly, rather throwing it into the black holes that are our zombie banks.

I see where your coming from in fairness but if I have the manflu. Knowing someone else has it aswell doesn't make me feel better about it. If ya know what I mean.

mikemac · 05-10-2011 03:49AM

dayshah wrote: »

What Waterford needs is a niche cluster. Galway has its medical devices, Cork its pharmaceuticals. Waterford needs one niche, and to become the best in the world at it.

The last big area and I suppose it's still doing fairly well is financial services. Cork has thousands employed in funds industry.

Wexford has some too. As does Louth.

I think there is a firm in Waterford but I've forgotten their name.
Makes sense most are in the IFSC in Dublin
But Cork was a big winner there too

decies · 05-10-2011 07:31AM

At the end of the day the only people that can save our city is our selves .At the height of that so called Celtic tiger more of a false economy but anyway a huge amount of Waterford people headed off on dedicated shopping trips to new York and across the border.The people from south Kilkenny actually were more loyal to Waterford than local themselves. The so called Waterford middle classes completely lost the run of themselves , we will head down to cork or head to Kilkenny rather than support the locals. Somebody described it well to me , we became in fact " n word" rich. So now we find ourselves broke and disillusioned , what's the solution , well maybe a good start would be to return to our working class roots which this city always has being , and try in whatever small way we can to support or city and our lovely countryside , in whatever way we can. At the end of the day Waterfords future is in our own hands.

deiseabu · 05-10-2011 10:20AM

Very astute post Decies and hits the nail absolutely on the head. Yes we need outside help and intervention, but we absolutely need to start helping ourselves first. Our city centre retail offering and night life offering may not be what it should and could be, but if we don't support what is there then it will continue in a downward spiral. As you said our middle classes have moaned and groaned about the grass being greener on the other side, well it's time to front up now and show a bit of civic pride. I think we have a city manager with a reasonable vision and considerable drive and his and the city council efforts in the Viking Triangle are commendable. More needs to be done on the retail front, reducing parking costs may be a big help as mentioned. Our landlord classes need to play their part by reducing commercial rents to make running retail businesses more afordable. Lots of potential remedies, most of which lie in our own hands, we have a great city, it's time for us all to increase our contribution to its wellbeing in whatever way we can.

Popquiz_hotshot · 05-10-2011 10:29AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14774526

Would this be the way to go??????:rolleyes::rolleyes:

merlante · 05-10-2011 10:43AM

I think Waterford city centre reached its lowest point around 2007 and has improved dramatically since. The main reason why the city is quieter now than in the past is because people moved from the centre out to places like the Dunmore rd., etc., over the past couple of decades, and come in very rarely.

Yes, there is unemployment, but unemployment was the same or worse in the late 80's when the town would have been a lot busier. So a bit of perspective regarding the so-called dead city centre is in order. It would be more lively if ye all came in and spent yer money, or better yet, lived there. Ardkeen village and the Brasscock, etc., were pretty dead in the 80's weren't they?

It is true that Waterford needs a university and a cluster of high tech industry. That's going to take time. Plenty of moaning ahead, unfortunately, until that happens.

johnnykilo · 05-10-2011 04:56PM

dayshah wrote: »

There all this talk about our lack of a university, M&S, bla, bla, bla.

What Waterford needs is a niche cluster. Galway has its medical devices, Cork its pharmaceuticals. Waterford needs one niche, and to become the best in the world at it.

There is some good work going on in the TSSG (has been for years) but funding is now starting to be the issue according to someone I was talking to the other day. It's fairly well renowned as one of the top telecommunications research centres in Europe and I see they've just announced this in the last day so hopefully it will do some good:

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/innovation/item/23872-tssg-and-itlg-to-establish/

dayshah · 05-10-2011 06:11PM

johnnykilo wrote: »

There is some good work going on in the TSSG (has been for years) but funding is now starting to be the issue according to someone I was talking to the other day. It's fairly well renowned as one of the top telecommunications research centres in Europe and I see they've just announced this in the last day so hopefully it will do some good:

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/innovation/item/23872-tssg-and-itlg-to-establish/

Good shtuff

In the end Waterford needs exports. It export jobs that give people the money to spend in pubs and retail.

Nolanger · 05-10-2011 06:13PM

merlante wrote: »

Yes, there is unemployment, but unemployment was the same or worse in the late 80's when the town would have been a lot busier.

City planning is as much to blame as the recession. Waterford is a doghnut city now with everyone moved out to the suburbs.

dayshah · 05-10-2011 06:22PM

With the exception of Belfast, we are the closest city to Dublin. That means we compete with them for students for 3rd level, retail etc. With the new motorway this has increased.

We should use this to our advantage.

abouttobebanned · 05-10-2011 08:58PM

I really believe that it's time for some radical thinking. Why must we follow what every other county does? We're clearly in dire straits down here so we need to act to save ourselves.

At the moment, like the rest of the country we're besotted with the most pointless election and biggest waste of time and money that I've ever seen. Its almost as if when the election is over we'll collectively think "fcuk...we're still in the schit"

What I hate about ireland is that we're followers...bloody sheep. Trying to be big boys in the school yard when we're only 4 foot tall. Waterford seem to be doing the same on a national level. The last time i was proud to be Irish was when we were the first to bring in the smoking ban. Fair play I thought, some forward thinking.

This is what's needed.

Professey Chin · 05-10-2011 09:02PM

The biggest problem is with the way this country is setup, you dont get into any power here by being a forward thinker.
You gotta work your way up a slimy ladder with your tongue in every decrepid wasters arse. Anything else and youre seen as a trouble maker.

dayshah · 05-10-2011 09:34PM

Lets have ourselves a theme park, something like Alton Towers.

It'd be the only one in Ireland (apart from Mr Tayto's thingy). People would travel to it. You'd get there in 2 hours from Dublin. A thing like that needs a lot of land, which is still too expensive in Dublin. This makes Waterford a practical choice.

One unique advantage is we are reasonably close (now with the motorway) to Cork and Dublin, but land is cheaper.

The obvious location would be Tramore, though one at the edge of the city would be cool, and having a roller coaster for public transport would be fairly cool.

Nypd · 06-10-2011 03:28AM

Nolanger wrote: »

City planning is as much to blame as the recession. Waterford is a doghnut city now with everyone moved out to the suburbs.

Spreading the retail out to the city limits has had to have played it's part in the down turn in the city centre, easy access and FREE parking,
On saying that there seems to be a revival of some retail in the centre, Micheal street being most noticeable, 12 months ago it had a lot if empty units.

Johns street is another spot that has potential to be marketed as a temple bar type area, I know they attempted it a few years back as johns street village, anyone know were that lead to ?

charlemont · 06-10-2011 03:37AM

dayshah wrote: »

Lets have ourselves a theme park, something like Alton Towers.

It'd be the only one in Ireland (apart from Mr Tayto's thingy). People would travel to it. You'd get there in 2 hours from Dublin. A thing like that needs a lot of land, which is still too expensive in Dublin. This makes Waterford a practical choice.

One unique advantage is we are reasonably close (now with the motorway) to Cork and Dublin, but land is cheaper.

The obvious location would be Tramore, though one at the edge of the city would be cool, and having a roller coaster for public transport would be fairly cool.

Its a good idea but An Bord Planeala, Bord Failte and An Taisce would have a field day over it, Not to mention the objections that would come from Tramores residents and established business people, They don't want change unfortunately..

abouttobebanned · 06-10-2011 09:48AM

That's the kind of radical thinking I'm talking about though. Next up...our own currency...

merlante · 06-10-2011 12:09PM

Nolanger wrote: »

City planning is as much to blame as the recession. Waterford is a doghnut city now with everyone moved out to the suburbs.

I think Waterford has been very progressive in attempts to prioritise the city centre over the outskirts for planning. However, the Irish as a people are working against this. Having the front and back garden on an estate is considered "the dream" for many. Neighbourhood centres creep towards villages in their own right. The culture of apartment living and public parks does not/no longer exists in Ireland. So I don't know what more the council, or even the government can do. It's a cultural thing.

Having said that, *some* town and city centres are considered "cool", and the only place to socialise in the area. People feel that they are missing out if they are not there. Waterford is not in this category, as the majority of people do not come in unless they have to. This is a shame as Waterford city centre has a lot more to offer than previously, especially in terms of cafes and restaurants. And there are still plenty of good pubs. The real point is that if everyone came in to socialise then it would be well worth everyone coming in socialise. Chicken and egg. And again, we've had unemployment before, so unemployment has got nothing to do with it.

Max Powers · 06-10-2011 12:31PM

merlante wrote: »

.... so unemployment has got nothing to do with it.

It has a lot to do with it, less money for eating out, nights out, paying for events, taxis, etc.

abouttobebanned · 06-10-2011 12:52PM

What he means though is during the "boom" Waterford city centre was still a ghost town after 6pm. It has a lot to do with the parking down there and all the focus on bars and takeaways at John street

Marchandire · 06-10-2011 01:01PM

decies wrote: »

At the end of the day the only people that can save our city is our selves .At the height of that so called Celtic tiger more of a false economy but anyway a huge amount of Waterford people headed off on dedicated shopping trips to new York and across the border.The people from south Kilkenny actually were more loyal to Waterford than local themselves. The so called Waterford middle classes completely lost the run of themselves , we will head down to cork or head to Kilkenny rather than support the locals. Somebody described it well to me , we became in fact " n word" rich. So now we find ourselves broke and disillusioned , what's the solution , well maybe a good start would be to return to our working class roots which this city always has being , and try in whatever small way we can to support or city and our lovely countryside , in whatever way we can. At the end of the day Waterfords future is in our own hands.

I agree with you 100%. I'd add something else: Waterford people seem to be in a state of denial regarding how we got here. When I see see people blaming Brendan McCann for somehow retarding development in Waterford, or blaming the unions for our lack of jobs - it boggles the mind.

We need to identify the problem before we can fix it - but too many people in this city just want to hang the blame on easy scapegoats.

Straight Talker · 06-10-2011 02:44PM

The only cities in ireland that are any way vibrant is Cork and Dublin.I don't consider Galway to be a city.Waterford despite it's neglect is a much nicer city than Limerick and it's city centre is bigger than Galway's.So the potential is there.

Waterford is dying...

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