Waterford is dying...

Junior · 06-10-2011 04:04PM

For all the BS about Nama and them giving money to builders to finish off projects, this city centre is crying out for a project to be started that's been cut down at the start, you'd wonder why isn't anyone asking for it to be completed in some shape or form so that the city centre can get some life put back into it..

Partizan · 06-10-2011 04:23PM

mikemac wrote: »

There is that reputation Waterford has, people know about the dockers strike and how long that lasted and the cities reputation for militant union activity.

The dockers strike is history now but not forgotten.

So it's the unions/Jimmy Kelly/Workers Party/SWP/RBB/Lizard People/insert other imagined Lefty scapegoat/ fault for Waterford's economic depression. Nothing to to do with poor economic, social and spatial planning by local and national government that has left the city and the region bereft of any proper public transport, university, sustainable jobs etc. I suppose Jimmy Kelly closed the Waterford-Tramore, Waterford-Mallow, Waterford-Rosslare rail lines which happen(ed) to be important pieces of civil infrastructure that woudl have aided development of the city and the region as a major economic hub.

Some people really need to wise up on this site.

Partizan · 06-10-2011 04:28PM

Junior wrote: »

For all the BS about Nama and them giving money to builders to finish off projects, this city centre is crying out for a project to be started that's been cut down at the start, you'd wonder why isn't anyone asking for it to be completed in some shape or form so that the city centre can get some life put back into it..

Ferrybank SC is a huge white elephant that cost the bones of €200 million. What makes you think that the Closegate and Bilberry developments would be any different.

At the end of the day, the entire economy from 2002 onwards was built on the back of an unsustainable property/construction bubble fuelled by cheap and easy credit. The bulk of our GNP went into shoebox apartments and other vanity projects. With even a fraction of the money generated during the bubble (2002-07) we could have had world class public infrastructure, public transport, roads, sewerage, water, schools, hospitals etc. All it needed was proper planning and the will to implement it.

Nolanger · 06-10-2011 05:52PM

Here's why the city is dying: the shops are mostly in the city centre and everyone with money lives outside in the suburbs but as you leave the city these other areas go uphill. So people feel superior up on elevated areas and look down on the city centre which is the lowest part of the region. That's why they don't want to visit the shops as it's beneath them. It's a psychological thing.

dayshah · 06-10-2011 05:54PM

charlemont wrote: »

Its a good idea but An Bord Planeala, Bord Failte and An Taisce would have a field day over it, Not to mention the objections that would come from Tramores residents and established business people, They don't want change unfortunately..

Ah, I thought of that. I'd give free life-time passes to their children. Pester power will make them cave

Also, I'd like Waterford to be the food capital of Ireland. There is already some good work being done on promoting this.

In terms of town twinning, I think we should embrace our Viking heritage and link up with towns in Denmark. Denmark has a great record in terms of town planning, so there could be practical advise given.

I derelict order the fvck out of the city centre. Any derelict buildings that aren't historically relevant would be flattened and turned into car parks until a better plan comes along.

I'm also a BIG fan of having underground car parks, and covering the top with grass. They do it in lots of European cities. I'd excavate all of Ballybricken 3 storeys deep, putting in a car park, and then cover the top back over with grass so its still a park.

Sikie · 06-10-2011 06:31PM

One issue which hasn't be brought to the table on Waterford is that in the mid to late 1990s when the structural aid criteria were being decided waterford and the southeast was deemed "rich" in whereas the Borders Midlands and West BMW regions were deemed "poor" hence EU grant aids and other EU supports could be lavished on those regions. This did make the likes of Galway more attractive over Waterford in the last 10 years

dayshah · 06-10-2011 07:00PM

Here is something interesting from the CSO. http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/economy/current/regincome.pdf

Its from 2008, and a few things have transpired since then.

But anyway, the South-East does better than the BMW regions, and is on par with the South West. I'd reckon the BMW regions have faired fairly badly, because they did get a lot of silly construction jobs during the bubble.

Dublin has the highest, which makes sense as its the administrative centre. If we had a properly implemented spatial strategy Waterford would be the administrative centre for the South-East, and would do better. This would save the taxpayer money, so is in the national interest.

Waterford is richer than Carlow and Kilkenny, and on par with Cork, Tipp, Wexford, so we can't complain too much about being disadvantaged. But this may have changed since 2008. Limerick is actually a fairly high income county (even though the city isn't great due to a doughnut effect).

comeraghs · 06-10-2011 08:26PM

do your bit to bring some life to the city & spread the word about this great festival! please!

http://www.imagineartsfestival.com/

danjo-xx · 06-10-2011 09:18PM

Nolanger wrote: »

Here's why the city is dying: the shops are mostly in the city centre and everyone with money lives outside in the suburbs but as you leave the city these other areas go uphill. So people feel superior up on elevated areas and look down on the city centre which is the lowest part of the region. That's why they don't want to visit the shops as it's beneath them. It's a psychological thing.

:rolleyes:

wmpdd3 · 07-10-2011 10:52AM

Here's why the city is dying: the shops are mostly in the city centre and everyone with money lives outside in the suburbs but as you leave the city these other areas go uphill. So people feel superior up on elevated areas and look down on the city centre which is the lowest part of the region. That's why they don't want to visit the shops as it's beneath them. It's a psychological thing.

I do live outside the city on a hill but I dont have money. If I need to go to town I'll factor the €1.80 for parking into it. I never stay over 1 hr, If I have to stay over 1 hr, I'll walk to town and get the Kenelleys home.

scico rocks · 07-10-2011 12:13PM

Nolanger wrote: »

Here's why the city is dying: the shops are mostly in the city centre and everyone with money lives outside in the suburbs but as you leave the city these other areas go uphill. So people feel superior up on elevated areas and look down on the city centre which is the lowest part of the region. That's why they don't want to visit the shops as it's beneath them. It's a psychological thing.

Heard it all now.........:rolleyes:

Max Powers · 07-10-2011 12:38PM

Nolanger wrote: »

Here's why the city is dying: the shops are mostly in the city centre and everyone with money lives outside in the suburbs but as you leave the city these other areas go uphill. So people feel superior up on elevated areas and look down on the city centre which is the lowest part of the region. That's why they don't want to visit the shops as it's beneath them. It's a psychological thing.

I never heard such drivel in my life. What are you basing this on nolanger, extensive research and opinion polls? Most people live outside the city limits as they want their kids to have a good green area to run around, thats where they grew up, less traffic etc.
As far people feeling too superior as to head into the city, complete and utter unfounded nonsense. I have never heard anyone say anything to indicate that.

In my opinion, some people prefer socialising in locals as its handier travel wise and often cheaper

bullpost · 07-10-2011 01:46PM

I wonder would a light rail system between Waterford and Tramore make the city more attractive as a location?
It would be an easy commute then and would link up the city and coast the same way the dart line does in Dublin?
With low cost of contstruction atm now would be time to do it.
A stop at WIT would make it easy for people to travel to the college as well?

dayshah wrote: »

Lets have ourselves a theme park, something like Alton Towers.

It'd be the only one in Ireland (apart from Mr Tayto's thingy). People would travel to it. You'd get there in 2 hours from Dublin. A thing like that needs a lot of land, which is still too expensive in Dublin. This makes Waterford a practical choice.

One unique advantage is we are reasonably close (now with the motorway) to Cork and Dublin, but land is cheaper.

The obvious location would be Tramore, though one at the edge of the city would be cool, and having a roller coaster for public transport would be fairly cool.

MitchKoobski · 07-10-2011 01:55PM

Nolanger wrote: »

Here's why the city is dying: the shops are mostly in the city centre and everyone with money lives outside in the suburbs but as you leave the city these other areas go uphill. So people feel superior up on elevated areas and look down on the city centre which is the lowest part of the region. That's why they don't want to visit the shops as it's beneath them. It's a psychological thing.

I live in Cherrymount and I have to go down the hill next to the Ursuline to get on the road to town, and it's kinda hard to look down on people because all I can see is the top of Storm Cinema, Azurri, Ballybeg and the back of The Grange. Does that still count?

alphasounds · 07-10-2011 08:43PM

KK has 15 min. free parking.
30 min would be acceptable.
Waterford charges straight away.
Not worth the quick drop in at the really great butcher's. Sorry.
There is free shopping at all the private places.
The tough traffic wardens make the situation not better.
As i know the place there is prob. some arraignment with the private parking places or/ and a class excuse not to support the local Business.

dayshah · 07-10-2011 11:07PM

There are 2 things people want with parking. A guaranteed spot, and that its cheap. It the CC gives free parking it mightn't be used by people shopping.

My solution is to create more spaces (using lots of derelict land) and charging a low price.

Also maybe some more proper bike parking in the centre, so locals don't drive in.

Media999 · 07-10-2011 11:23PM

Parking prices has ruined this city.

decies · 08-10-2011 12:08AM

By the way if anybody still works down town these days that car park only charges afaik 15 euro for 5 days , hence the reason it seems to be much fuller than normal these days .

08-10-2011 11:27AM

bradolf pittler wrote: »

john roberts sq is a ghost town after 6 pm,buildings like the old cinema and the de la salle center are lying idle for years now and thats just naming 2,i really fear for this town

Very true. Personally, I think that when they got rid of "red square" and pedestrianised the WHOLE area they actually lost a bit of the buzz and soul from Georges Street/Former Red Square area.

It all looks very bland now with no individuality to it. I was in Glasgow a while ago and they have an almost identical water feature & paved area to John Roberts Square. The difference though is that Glasgow is such a bustling City it doesnt look bad there.

Chiparus · 09-10-2011 11:48AM

Nolanger wrote: »

Here's why the city is dying: the shops are mostly in the city centre and everyone with money lives outside in the suburbs but as you leave the city these other areas go uphill. So people feel superior up on elevated areas and look down on the city centre which is the lowest part of the region. That's why they don't want to visit the shops as it's beneath them. It's a psychological thing.

Nothing psychological at all.
Actually there are very few shops in town to attract affluent people apart from the bookstore.
Most of the rest sell chinese tat, like Argos etc.
The only half decent food store is in Ardkeen SC.
Plus the traffic on the Dunmore road, the parking and the unsavory "hang abouts" means it is not that attractive.

200motels · 09-10-2011 01:14PM

In Dungarvan from 315 on a Saturday afternoon parking is free, why can't our septic council come up with similar ideas to bring people into our city. Waterford city centre is dead and worse it's going to get until someone pulls their finger out.

Dan133269 · 09-10-2011 07:29PM

Nolanger, a sense of humour doesn't go down well around here!

Nolanger · 09-10-2011 07:46PM

Yep, also the way everyone moved out the Dunmore Road in the 1990s and won't travel into town because of the bad traffic might have something to do with it? How about a WUAS rail line bringing shoppers into the city cente?

merlante · 09-10-2011 10:24PM

Why do people think it's a bad thing that John Robert's sq. is dead in the evenings? It's a shopping area these days, not a socialising area. Try the junction. The real problem is that the junction is pretty one-dimensional as far as nightlife is concerned.

Nolanger wrote: »

... the way everyone moved out the Dunmore Road in the 1990s and won't travel into town because of the bad traffic might have something to do with it? How about a WUAS rail line bringing shoppers into the city cente?

A "WUAS" would be great but what's wrong with the bus?

abouttobebanned · 09-10-2011 10:40PM

Of course it's a bad thing.

The area lends itself to having some open bars and cafes....a kind of smaller version of leicester Square.

daenerysstormborn3 · 09-10-2011 11:00PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Very true. Personally, I think that when they got rid of "red square" and pedestrianised the WHOLE area they actually lost a bit of the buzz and soul from Georges Street/Former Red Square area.

It all looks very bland now with no individuality to it. I was in Glasgow a while ago and they have an almost identical water feature & paved area to John Roberts Square. The difference though is that Glasgow is such a bustling City it doesnt look bad there.

Glasgow is a fine city to try to replicate. Have been there a good few times over the past few years. You can't go wrong with £5 for a full breakfast whether you're having a dirty fry or a proper healthy breakfast, absolutely loads of places to eat and drink, £20 for a 3 course meal in a nice restaurant, really cheap taxis (taxi from town out to Slieverue would be about £6), supermarkets all really cheap and loads of variety, loads of stuff to do, loads of places to go shopping, really cheap hotel rates as well, you're talking about £40 for a double bed (last time I was over I paid £80 for 3 nights), I can't praise the place enough. Waterford may not be even remotely near it size wise but they could really take some hints on how to pick things up.

Sometimes I get the impression from Waterford and the people that own it (I mean the shop owners and restaurant owners etc.) that they think it's better than it is. This isn't Dublin or any other big city. I think Waterford should just play on what it is and scale things back price wise to what it is. Charging high prices ≠ better.

There seems to be a crappy chipper on nearly every corner but you struggle to find anywhere open for a decent, reasonably priced breakfast on a Saturday or Sunday morning. Nothing in town seems to open until around 2 o'clock on a Sunday - the Book Centre doesn't even stock the Sunday papers it opens so late (I noticed this when I was in there the last couple of weekends).

dayshah · 10-10-2011 05:36PM

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Glasgow is a fine city to try to replicate.

Oh God, can we please think outside the British Isles :eek:

Cause, that's all we a part of if we keep looking towards Old Blighty.

There are lots of pretty cities in the world, Glasgow doesn't rank amongst them

Interesting point about the De La Salle centre and cinema. There should be more to bring people into town than shopping, work, and beer. The cinema and De La Salle centre allowed for a more varied social scene in the city centre, and its sad they are gone.

I agree with what you mean by us not being a big city like Dublin.

abouttobebanned · 10-10-2011 06:18PM

It's all well and good listing the buildings that have potential...or the shops/bars/cafes etc that should be opened...

But let's be realistic for a second, wouldn't you be mad to open up somewhere new at the moment? especially at that end of town.

dayshah · 10-10-2011 06:45PM

I think it would look cool if one of the parks in town (maybe Wyse park, ballybricken, or part of the people's park) was planted with fruit trees/bushes (apples, and pears and berries). It might get some people to visit in the autumn. We can even have a fruit picking festival. They have similar public fruit trees in Prague.

abouttobebanned wrote: »

It's all well and good listing the buildings that have potential...or the shops/bars/cafes etc that should be opened...

But let's be realistic for a second, wouldn't you be mad to open up somewhere new at the moment? especially at that end of town.

Maybe the places could be rented for cheap to voluntary groups, until a commercial tenant is found. It would get more footfall into tow.

abouttobebanned · 10-10-2011 06:55PM

Well surely some rent would be better than none and an empty premises.

Waterford is dying...

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