goodbye ipad , welcome kindle fire

stimpson

OK, a couple of points:

- This isn't going to be an open Android device. It's rumored to be based Amazons own implementation based on 2.3, not 3.0 like the other tablets. It's also Amazons own fork of the code and you will lose much of the customizability that most Android users tout as being superior to iOS.

- It will be tied to Amazons app store - you won't have access to the full range of apps on Android marketplace, including, it seems, the Google Apps (which would be the compelling ones for most people)

- No mic, no camera, no 3G, no GPS. You won't be able to use it for many things iPad users take for granted. This is going to be a platform for consuming media rather than a tablet computer.

- As a comparison, the Blackberry Playbook has a 7" display, is priced at $250 and has sold flip all.

I'm not saying it wont sell, I'm just saying its' no replacement for an iPad. I'd buy one if I was in the market for an eBook reader, but not if I was in the market for a tablet.

jester77

I'm a bit skeptical on this one. I've an iPad & kindle at home and when it comes to reading anything then kindle is king. If I was to upgrade the kindle then I would be upgrading to the kindle touch model and not the fire as e-ink trumps tablets. And I would imagine most kindle users would be the same. So this leaves Amazon having to woe new customers for the fire.

It will be interesting to see how that fares out as the 7 inch is too big to be pocketable and too small to be truly useful. I suppose it will all come down to the parent test I got my parents an iPad 2 after it came out and they have not had a single problem using it. They can turn it on and we are video chatting within seconds, whereas previously there was always problems on their PC with drivers, camera & audio and sometimes we would just give up and use the landline. If my parents can turn on the fire and have a video chat going with me within 30 seconds then Amazon will be on a winner here

InTheTrees

I ordered one yesterday. Delivery Nov 15th hopefully.

I already use a kindle which I really like so this is just an upgrade. I dont need/want 3g, gps, camera, mic etc etc.

A functional web browser and e-reader in colour is pretty much all I want, so anything else is a bonus.

I already have an iphone so I know all about being restricted to an app store and dont care much.

Its really all about the price. At $199 I'm totally willing to take a little risk, if it was $250 I'd think a little more about it and at $300 I may well pass.

Biggins

stimpson wrote: »

OK, a couple of points:

- This isn't going to be an open Android device. It's rumored to be based Amazons own implementation based on 2.3, not 3.0 like the other tablets. It's also Amazons own fork of the code and you will lose much of the customizability that most Android users tout as being superior to iOS.

- It will be tied to Amazons app store - you won't have access to the full range of apps on Android marketplace, including, it seems, the Google Apps (which would be the compelling ones for most people)

- No mic, no camera, no 3G, no GPS. You won't be able to use it for many things iPad users take for granted. This is going to be a platform for consuming media rather than a tablet computer.

- As a comparison, the Blackberry Playbook has a 7" display, is priced at $250 and has sold flip all.

I'm not saying it wont sell, I'm just saying its' no replacement for an iPad. I'd buy one if I was in the market for an eBook reader, but not if I was in the market for a tablet.

You make a couple of valid points.
I would mention that later versions after Christmas will come with later software (which will allow greater customisation) and additional features you listed it currently lacks.

Can you show where someone has stated it will be completely tied to Amazons app store?
This is a first for me and I've been following this particular products progress for over a year now.
Previous Kindles by the way has allowed owners to buy their items from alternate sources, not just official Amazon ones.
I'd be very surprised of they have all of a sudden thrown this freedom of right, out the window!

You are right when you say "No mic, no camera, no 3G, no GPS."
...But this is version ONE. The later versions will have these features by a lot of accounts - and still be cheaper.

The Blackberry Playbook sold bugger all just for a start because Blackberry doesn't by any means, have the net presence that Amazon massively has alone, thus the reach (or lack of it) into peoples homes and ability at grabbing their attenton immediately.
Click on www.Amazon.com to go look for anything right now and what to do you see! Instant plug!

If most was in the market for a table that displays books, magazines, moving films and plays sound, plays games, has daily/weekly newspapers (all cheaper themselves than that which is being supplied to Apple currently) - and was all cheap at the price, I would say I'd be buying this tomorrow if it was available - and this is only version one.

Amazon are now getting their foot in the door. At the end of the day, thats all.
At a cheap price and with usable functions that everyone can use, even older grandparents (without a steep learning curve to grasp), this will make big roads into the Ipad market, in the coming months and next year onwards.

The current one does what it does - and it does it well at a very cheap price.
I know many people that wanted these very functions but till now were put off completely by having to pay Ipad type prices.
Now that problem will no longer exist when they go on sale this side of the water.

InTheTrees

stimpson wrote: »

I'm not saying it wont sell, I'm just saying its' no replacement for an iPad. I'd buy one if I was in the market for an eBook reader, but not if I was in the market for a tablet.

Exactly. I'm no big fan of the ipad though.

Having played with Win 8 running on the samsung tablet from the MS developers conf, I'm willing to wait until win8 is released before I buy a full tablet.

stimpson

Biggins wrote: »

You make a couple of valid points.
I would mention that later versions after Christmas will come with later software (which will allow greater customisation) and additional features you listed it currently lacks.

It remains to be seen what that version has and at what pricepoint.

Can you show where someone has stated it will be completely tied to Amazons app store?
This is a first for me and I've been following this particular products progress for over a year now.

Sorry. Not in the office now. I'm sure a quick web search will turn up something. The official stuff I've been reading says your purchases will be tied to your Amazon account which would suggest tight integration with an official app store.

You are right when you say "No mic, no camera, no 3G, no GPS."
...But this is version ONE. The later versions will have these features by a lot of accounts - and still be cheaper.

Unless Apple go after the low end of the market.

The Blackberry Playbook sold bugger all just for a start because Blackberry doesn't by any means, have the net presence that Amazon massively has alone, thus the reach (or lack of it) into peoples homes and ability at grabbing their attenton immediately.
Click on www.Amazon.com to go look for anything right now and what to do you see! Instant plug!

The Playbook was touted by analysts because of the form factor and the Flash support. RIM have a reasonably good AppStore. They just don't have the halo effect that Apple have.

Amazon are now getting their foot in the door. At the end of the day, thats all.
At a cheap price and with usable functions that everyone can use, even older grandparents (without a steep learning curve to grasp), this will make big roads into the Ipad market, in the coming months and next year onwards.

The current one does what it does - and it does it well at a very cheap price.
I know many people that wanted these very functions but till now were put off completely by having to pay Ipad type prices.
Now that problem will no longer exist when they go on sale this side of the water.

I can see it appealing to many consumers for sure, but I don't see it as an iPad killer. And if it takes off I could see Apple stealing their thunder with a cheaper iPad

Thud

I think the Fire at €150 avoids the whole Apple issue of waiting for the next model/your model being out of date which will make it a much easier buy for many people

bpb101

Gadhafi wrote: »

Does it have flash???

not highlighted . prob flash for youtube
has opera mini, i think , might, not sure

Biggins

Some interesting points - some (with credit to them) touched by others here:

Winners:

Amazon: This tablet isn’t about hardware. It’s about consumption of Amazon services like music, streaming movies and apps. The Kindle Fire is an extension of Amazon’s store. How can Amazon price at $199 for a Wi-Fi tablet? Because you’ll shop more, consume more and be an Amazon Prime subscriber. The Kindle Touch and Fire equate to a lot more shopping and usage.

Android market share: Should Amazon’s heavily customized Android tablet take off it will go a long way to bolstering the operating system’s market position. Today the tablet market is all iPad all the time. Amazon will change that.

Apple: Amazon’s tablet isn’t an iPad killer by any stretch. In fact, Amazon’s aggressive pricing creates two tablet markets—high end and near disposable. Apple can hold its pricing. So-called iPad killers won’t be able to hold the market. In other words, Amazon and Apple just split the tablet market. There are $199 tablets (Fire) and $499 tablets (iPad). Anyone in the middle is toast.


Losers:

Android tablets: If HP’s TouchPad fire sale ruined the Android tablet market, Amazon just killed it. A color tablet at $199 will kill pricing for Android tablets. Rest assured, Amazon will cut prices later. In other words, $99 is the new price point in just a few months. It’s going to be ugly for select hardware makers. Here’s a scenario: You can buy a Kindle Touch (starting at $99) and a Kindle Fire tablet for under $300 and still undercut most tablet makers.

Barnes & Noble’s color Nook: Yes, Amazon was late to the color tablet/e-reader party. But Barnes & Noble will have to cut its price from $249. That will squeeze margins for Barnes & Noble, which doesn’t have the financial firepower to hang with Amazon. On the e-reader front, the squeeze is still on.

Android 3.0 Honeycomb: What does it say when the two bestselling tablets are hybrid e-reader/tablets running on a lesser version of Android. It says Honeycomb isn’t that great.

Research in Motion: If Amazon will sell you a PlayBook-like tablet starting at $99, what is RIM going to do. RIM lacks apps—no Angry Birds—scale and pricing. The PlayBook may be over.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/amazons-kindle-fire-just-nuked-the-tablet-market-winners-and-losers/59147?tag=nl.e539

stimpson

Pretty much agree with all of that Biggins. If they're rootable I'll buy one at €100 as a media device. Especially if I can run a Plex and a Twonky client. I would have my own personal media cloud with a decent sized screen.

hardCopy

I lost my Kindle 3G in August but held off replacing it because I had heard rumours of this.

It's a no brainer for me, my parents want to buy me a replacement as a birthday present so will get a Fire now for the same price I paid for the Kindle 3G (although I got that with vouchers).

stimpson

The big issue as regards it being an eBook reader is the 8 hours battery life. The eInk Kindles are 3 weeks I think.

hardCopy

stimpson wrote: »

The big issue as regards it being an eBook reader is the 8 hours battery life. The eInk Kindles are 3 weeks I think.

This is true, I can see myself using it a lot more as well where I only used my previous Kindle at night or during flights.

InTheTrees

I'm looking forward to a backlit screen so I can read in the dark.

dloob

Biggins wrote: »

Can you show where someone has stated it will be completely tied to Amazons app store?
This is a first for me and I've been following this particular products progress for over a year now.
Previous Kindles by the way has allowed owners to buy their items from alternate sources, not just official Amazon ones.
I'd be very surprised of they have all of a sudden thrown this freedom of right, out the window!

It's not a "with Google" android device, so it doesn't have android market access or any of the google apps like gmail, google maps etc.
Google have been using their certification process for "with Google" access to control the customisation of android by OEMs.
Amazon don't care though so have gone for a totally custom android with their own launcher and app store.
SILK is also a big threat to Google, users searching through SILK probably won't be identifiable because of the proxy like connection.

bpb101

i say it wont be long before an amazon phone

off topic , what was deal with a Google phone , didnt they say years ago they wearing bringing out a phone , or did they just change that to an phone os

Biggins

dloob wrote: »

...SILK is also a big threat to Google, users searching through SILK probably won't be identifiable because of the proxy like connection.

Aye, there has been some great tech talk about that.
I'd say Google is quietly not impressed - and worried even a bit!
What if others adopted the same process/method - would be Google's worry!

RobertFoster

bpb101 wrote: »

off topic , what was deal with a Google phone , didnt they say years ago they wearing bringing out a phone , or did they just change that to an phone os

You could count the Nexus One and the Nexus S as Google phones. They weren't manufactured by Google themselves, but they are classed as flagship phones. They were the first phone with the then latest version of Android AFAIK.

bpb101

RobertFoster wrote: »

You could count the Nexus One and the Nexus S as Google phones. They weren't manufactured by Google themselves, but they are classed as flagship phones. They were the first phone with the then latest version of Android AFAIK.

never seen them , do they sell them here

pavb2

Before the launch of the fire I was thinking of getting the standard kindle for e books,happy to use lap top for net so which version should I now go for?

Kernel

Guys am I missing something here? The Kindle Fire is not available in Europe, nor is it going to be for the foreseeable future. Unfortunately.

bpb101

not available yet , i bought the kindle 2 off amazon .com
a good while before anybody new what the kindle was here
i know it now available to buy outside the states , but it will it just a matter of time to get their contract extend with 3g company that run the 3g for the kindle 2 and 3

edit ; 3g- i'm referring to the 3g for the other kindle devices that will come out the same day , kindle touch

also they need to get legal sh-it in order

Kernel

bpb101 wrote: »

not available yet , i bought the kindle 2 off amazon .com
a good while before anybody new what the kindle was here
i know it now available to buy outside the states , but it will it just a matter of time to get their contract extend with 3g company that run the 3g for the kindle 2 and 3

edit ; 3g- i'm referring to the 3g for the other kindle devices that will come out the same day , kindle touch

also they need to get legal sh-it in order

I hope we see it, but getting the legal stuff right could prove a serious problem. Also, if buying the US version, I heard that non-US IP addresses wont work, you'll need an account with a US credit card address, and you won't be able to use most features. Maybe we'll see Kindle Fire 3 in a couple of years.

bpb101

Kernel wrote: »

I hope we see it, but getting the legal stuff right could prove a serious problem. Also, if buying the US version, I heard that non-US IP addresses wont work, you'll need an account with a US credit card address, and you won't be able to use most features. Maybe we'll see Kindle Fire 3 in a couple of years.

one of he main features of the kindle is that netflixs and amazon instant, which wont work here (netflixs at lease)

dvpower

I can't quite understand the 7inch format. Too big to fit in a pocket,too small for comfortable browsing. Maybe a good size for reading a book.

I'm still on the hunt for a good value browsing, email, media player, casual gaming device. This isn't it.

bpb101

InTheTrees wrote: »

I'm looking forward to a backlit screen so I can read in the dark.

in the 2 euro shop you can get a little clip on led light , realy handy , the backlight wont be that great as it will drink batterys

niallk

bpb101 wrote: »

in the 2 euro shop you can get a little clip on led light , realy handy , the backlight wont be that great as it will drink batterys

Plus, it won't be e-ink which is the set thing about Kindles. So reading off the Fire will be like reading off a laptop, straining on the eyes.

pleasant Co.

niallk wrote: »

Plus, it won't be e-ink which is the set thing about Kindles. So reading off the Fire will be like reading off a laptop, straining on the eyes.

Yeah, after reading a few threads about the fire it seems a lot of people don't seem to realise this. The impression I'm getting is that those people see it as a colour kindle, ereader, when really it's a cheap as chips tablet.

It'll be grand for a few minutes reading, but not a good idea to use it instead of a book/e-ink ereader

meoklmrk91

It looks really tempting, however I think it will be a long time before we see one here and even then it will probably be crippled with regards to content. Think about it Amazon Appstore, not available here, movies and TV shows, not available here, Cloud Drive and Player, not available here. The only things we do get are the Kindle store and the MP3 store, the former of which I have been told has huge gaps when it comes to content but has been getting better. Amazon really need to pull their fingers out of the asses and realise that there is a whole other world outside of the US where they could be making serious money, cause if they did a Kindle Fire would be at the top of my Christmas list and I am fairly sure I am not the only one.

bpb101

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

It looks really tempting, however I think it will be a long time before we see one here and even then it will probably be crippled with regards to content. Think about it Amazon Appstore, not available here, movies and TV shows, not available here, Cloud Drive and Player, not available here. The only things we do get are the Kindle store and the MP3 store, the former of which I have been told has huge gaps when it comes to content but has been getting better. Amazon really need to pull their fingers out of the asses and realise that there is a whole other world outside of the US where they could be making serious money, cause if they did a Kindle Fire would be at the top of my Christmas list and I am fairly sure I am not the only one.

i get cloud with my kindle , but mabey that because i ship it in from the states