The ESB And Eirgrid can go f*ck themselves - Merge

joela

http://www.offalyexpress.ie/news/local/protesters_defend_offaly_woman_s_trees_1_3097889

Wow they don't look much like mature broadleaf trees in that picture, so I guess it really is just a species poor plantation as opposed to what some of the bandwagon activists have been claiming. Now where is my book of "native american indian" proverbs from which I can quote something completely pointless in relation to this situation!

wee truck big driver

why dont we put all the lines undeground. i dont mind having to pay twice as much for my electric.not sure my 75year old mother could afford it. what with the price of oil through the roof what harm is a few old people dying of the cold if we can save a few trees. just out of interest how do you get cables unde the trees without digging them up

Chuck Stone

Doesn't look like much really.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.164588280292149.42822.164471736970470

joela

According to some bright spark on the link below it is possible, I won't comment


http://www.thejournal.ie/esb-and-eirgrid-say-they-deeply-regret-teresa-treacy-situation-239612-Sep2011/?utm_source=shortlink

joela

@Chuck, I have pointed exactly that out on the other thread. It is predominantly immature conifer dominated plantation. Have a look on google earth and what you can see looks like plantation on there too.

Micky Dolenz

joela wrote: »

According to some bright spark on the link below it is possible, I won't comment


http://www.thejournal.ie/esb-and-eirgrid-say-they-deeply-regret-teresa-treacy-situation-239612-Sep2011/?utm_source=shortlink

It can be done and is done every day here, by Bord Gais Networks, ESB Networks, City and County Councils.

supernoob

Well, it seems she did get sent to prison for preventing trespass as far as I can make out.

Trespassing is going on someone's land without their permission.

A court ordered her to let someone else enter her land, but she never gave her permission, so therefore they were still trespassing, albeit with the courts permission.
So she was still preventing trespass given that they did not in fact have her permission and the judge said that unless she allowed them on her land she would be sent to prison.

The court doesn't have the power to make her give her permission, they can demand that she does and they can send her to prison if she doesn't, but they can't make her give her permission, or else they would have done so.
Instead they sentenced her to prison.

I don't really get how people can say this is an issue of law and order when it's obvious the law in this country is totally out of order.

How can people say what's happening to her is right or correct because 'it's the law' when 'the law' failed us utterly at a time when we needed it more than at any other time in the history of this state ?

The fact that the legal system and bodies of laws in this country have nothing to say about what happened in govt, regulatory bodies, banking sector etc. but are all about land and property disputes and forcing private citizens to comply with their orders means that 'the law' in this country does not in fact stand to protect the citizens of this country from those with power or resources at their disposal but the other way around.

It just amazes me that with this country still falling around our ears and a deafening silence coming from the instruments of law and order on what happened people can still say that sending this woman to prison is about law and order.

This is about the people who have positions of power and influence over matters of law such as our elected politicians and the judiciary, making no effort to ensure that matters such as tenants rights being adequately protected, or that the regulator was actually doing it's job when all the financial skulduggery was going on, are adequately covered in the bodies of law on the statute books, but still making sure that they can pass court orders to allow powerful bodies such as the ESB access whatever land they want and cut down whatever trees they want.

This is about making sure that the country can function in order to pay it's Bailout back and tip along while we quietly ignore what really happened here
and the fact that the govt was up to it's neck in it, so that nothing really changes.The affluent retain their influence over how things are really run and everyone else foots the bill and asks no questions while tut tutting at a women who forgot her place and deserves what she's getting because it's a matter of law and order.

This case came about because the ESB demanded action, and paid lawyers to make it happen.
As far as I'm aware there was an article in the paper in which a lawyer stated that there is no law currently written which requires her to give access to her land.

The fact that a court issued an order does not mean that the order would have stood up to being challenged in court, which does not appear to have happened here as she was in fact unrepresented in court.

Also don't forget that this court order arose because the ESB paid to have a legal argument put before a judge who then made the order in what was in fact a property access dispute, not because the forces of law and order were swift in addressing a crime that had gone unpunished and seeing that justice was done.

If this lady had been adequately represented in court it's not clear that the order would ever have been granted, as the judge would be required to take into account any counter argument such as requiring an independent costing of going underground etc.

It strikes me as being a lot more serious for this country than people realise as this and the Shell to sea cases and who knows how many others prove that 'the law' is and always was capable of serious and stern action in addressing matters of individuals being put in their place when they get out of step, whether it's housebreaking or violent crime or telling the ESB no.
Unfortunately, it's dealing with those in positions of power of influence when they get out of line, don't even pretend to do their job, or blatantly abuse their powers that 'the law' does not seem capable of doing, or has no interest or business in doing.

.... sheesh.

Cantona's Collars

wee truck big driver wrote: »

why dont we put all the lines undeground. i dont mind having to pay twice as much for my electric.not sure my 75year old mother could afford it. what with the price of oil through the roof what harm is a few old people dying of the cold if we can save a few trees. just out of interest how do you get cables unde the trees without digging them up

Safety-High power transmission lines carry too much current to be buried underground.I've seen high pressure gas pipes that were buried several metres underground being accidentally dug up.

I've worked in this area before and trust me there are some real nutjobs out there that object to the ESB upgrading it's network and have the maddest excuses to keep them off their land.The trees on that womans land are mostly forestry plantation that would end up in a sawmill at some stage anyway.The ESB don't just go sticking up pylons willy-nilly around the country,a lot of planning and meetings with landowners take place before anything is done plus she gets compensation for having pylons on her land.

Typical Ireland,progress gets held because people get all maudlin and sentimental about a bit of land,what if she was 23 instead of 63? Doubt we'd see as much fuss over her sentence.

joela

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

It can be done and is done every day here, by Bord Gais Networks, ESB Networks, City and County Councils.

Yes usually in specific situations in urban areas, I am aware it CAN be done but it is a lengthy and expensive process and my point is I am unsure it can be done without damage to trees. Roots go down a long way.....

pljudge321

Does anyone know what voltage the line is?

wee truck big driver

i cant see the conection that everybody else is making between her and the bankers. where is the relevance, if somebody refuses to comply with the law should we just say ah its ok shes just another 60 year old nut job, sure what harm is she doing. i hate all tree huggers, snail lovers and bone diggers who love to hold up progress at the tax payes expense

Micky Dolenz

wee truck big driver wrote: »

i cant see the conection that everybody else is making between her and the bankers. where is the relevance, if somebody refuses to comply with the law should we just say ah its ok shes just another 60 year old nut job, sure what harm is she doing. i hate all tree huggers, snail lovers and bone diggers who love to hold up progress at the tax payes expense

This tax payers expense craic makes me laugh. What, are we worried about a couple of million?

Cantona's Collars

pljudge321 wrote: »

Does anyone know what voltage the line is?

If it's transmission lines via pylons they could be up to 300kv.

flutered

is there not some difference between her treatment and that of the occupants of dale farm in the uk.

My name is URL

Can't be arsed getting into the arguments about the right and wrongs of what the ESB etc are doing, but the woman shouldn't be in jail. What purpose does it serve..? if she says sorry (and how empty would that be?) she'll be released, and the work is going to happen regardless of whether or not she's in jail. It's a wee bit fascist to lock her up indefinitely over this.

Zimmerframe

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

It can be done and is done every day here, by Bord Gais Networks, ESB Networks, City and County Councils.

Nonsense, where are they installing 110kv cables every day ?

pljudge321 wrote: »

Does anyone know what voltage the line is?

110kv m8.

wee truck big driver

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

This tax payers expense craic makes me laugh. What, are we worried about a couple of million?

its the delay as much as the money and the fact. that the tree hugger never seem to have any useful work to pass ther time. so iam probably using my taxes too pay these hippies

wild_cat

I'm going to presume that the majority of people in this thread haven't had the joy of growing up right beside one and having another few scattered on their land.

Or had trees cut down that weren't meant to be cut down.. (In fairness we received a full apology and full payment for the re planting but it just shows that some ESB workers think they can do what they want....)

Well at least you know a fog is coming when the things start to hiss wildly at the first sign of moisture...

I'm not a big fan. But at least its not RIGHT beside her house like ours was.

The yearly payment doesn't amount to much btw.

pljudge321

zerks wrote: »

If it's transmission lines via pylons they could be up to 300kv.

400kV is the max here. I'd like to know if it's a distribution or transmission line.

Micky Dolenz

Zimmerframe wrote: »

Nonsense, where are they installing 110kv cables every day ?

what is nonsence? that they can't borrow underground?

Micky Dolenz

wee truck big driver wrote: »

its the delay as much as the money and the fact. that the tree hugger never seem to have any useful work to pass ther time. so iam probably using my taxes too pay these hippies

Your reasoning is deeply flawed.

Zimmerframe

zerks wrote: »

Safety-High power transmission lines carry too much current to be buried underground.I've seen high pressure gas pipes that were buried several metres underground being accidentally dug up.

I've worked in this area before and trust me there are some real nutjobs out there that object to the ESB upgrading it's network and have the maddest excuses to keep them off their land.The trees on that womans land are mostly forestry plantation that would end up in a sawmill at some stage anyway.The ESB don't just go sticking up pylons willy-nilly around the country,a lot of planning and meetings with landowners take place before anything is done plus she gets compensation for having pylons on her land.

Typical Ireland,progress gets held because people get all maudlin and sentimental about a bit of land,what if she was 23 instead of 63? Doubt we'd see as much fuss over her sentence.

I know what you are talking about, and agree 100% with you.
It's people who know nothing about electricity or cables, and think it's like "digging a bit of a trench down to the garden shed", that makes me laugh.

joela

wee truck big driver wrote: »

i cant see the conection that everybody else is making between her and the bankers. where is the relevance, if somebody refuses to comply with the law should we just say ah its ok shes just another 60 year old nut job, sure what harm is she doing. i hate all tree huggers, snail lovers and bone diggers who love to hold up progress at the tax payes expense

I can't understand it either to be honest, I think it is an excuse being used by a group of people who have their own agenda to pursue when they are "protesting" for her trees

Zimmerframe

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

what is nonsence? that they can't borrow underground?

I'm not sure how much they could borrow underground. Depends on who they meet I guess.

joela

Zimmerframe wrote: »

I'm not sure how much they could borrow underground. Depends on who they meet I guess.

Maybe a leprechaun?

Zimmerframe

joela wrote: »

Maybe a leprechaun?

He could give them a hand with the digging too.

joela

Zimmerframe wrote: »

He could give them a hand with the digging too.

Micro-tunelling!!! so that is how you can do it without damaging the trees

joela

wee truck big driver wrote: »

its the delay as much as the money and the fact. that the tree hugger never seem to have any useful work to pass ther time. so iam probably using my taxes too pay these hippies

We are not all bad and some of us work too!

Capt'n Midnight

joela wrote: »

Micro-tunelling!!! so that is how you can do it without damaging the trees

The towers will be 200m apart. Since they say towers then one has to assume that there would be more than one on her land.

T---T----T---T


T\_________/T

So you are talking about 600m under ground.


http://www.trenchlessonline.com/index/webapp-stories-action?id=434 the record for microtunneling is 1625feet which is just under 500m,

of course if there would be three or more towers...

Zimmerframe

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The towers will be 200m apart. Since they say towers then one has to assume that there would be more than one on her land.

T---T----T---T


T\_________/T

So you are talking about 600m under ground.


http://www.trenchlessonline.com/index/webapp-stories-action?id=434 the record for microtunneling is 1625feet which is just under 500m,

of course if there would be three or more towers...

micro- tunneling -I think, he was taking the Micky