Martin McGuinness to be named as Sinn Féins candidate for the Presidential Election?

myself69

vellocet wrote: »

Now I know you area at it.

?

Lord Trollington

KeithAFC wrote: »

No. I mean the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland. Martin isn't running to be the president of Northern Ireland. So that is why people in the Irish Republic will have much more interest in the actual result and care about the actual result of the vote. People in N.I are always going to be interested in the discussion when it comes to Sinn Fein.

Do you follow every Catholic/Republican related thread around boards.ie?

You were in AH posting tripe about London Derry,I see you posting crap in the Celtic thread in the soccer forum too.

As a matter of interest are you even eligible to vote in the Irish Presidential Election?

vellocet

myself69 wrote: »

?

He is on the wind up. Pulling our pissers. Acting the maggot. On a fishing trip. Whatever you want to call it.

Foghladh

whycliff wrote: »

Do you follow every Catholic/Republican related thread around boards.ie?

You were in AH posting tripe about London Derry,I see you posting crap in the Celtic thread in the soccer forum too.

As a matter of interest are you even eligible to vote in the Irish Presidential Election?

What the frick does that have to do with anything?

Richard tea

Eamon Dunphy & Fintin O' toole are having a debate on the radio at 12:00 on Newstalk 106 - 108fm. I heard Eamon on the radio yesterday and I thought he made some very good points regarding Martins past & election campaign.

Sir Oxman

Richard tea wrote: »

Eamon Dunphy & Fintin O' toole are having a debate on the radio at 12:00 on Newstalk 106 - 108fm. I heard Eamon on the radio yesterday and I thought he made some very good points regarding Martins past & election campaign.

Finatn is a millimetre from hanging up again.
TBH, Kiberd is a little pain in the bollix, he's not chairing the discussion proerly at all.

Richard tea

gambiaman wrote: »

Finatn is a millimetre from hanging up again.
TBH, Kiberd is a little pain in the bollix, he's not chairing the discussion proerly at all.

Fintan is not coming across very well at all. He is acting like a little school boy running to teacher. Eamons points regarding Prince charles, Bush, Blair etc are all true.

Wolfe Tone

Martina Devlin: Electing Martin McGuinness as President would be a fitting acknowledgement of his crucial role in the peace process

China has shut down its equivalent of the 'X Factor' because the state authorities take issue with the democratic concept of allowing the public to vote for favourite candidates.

Doesn't that have a familiar ring. Judging by some of the reaction to Martin McGuinness's name going on the Aras ballot, you get the distinct impression a number of individuals in the Irish Republic think this is an example of too much democracy as well.

During the Troubles, people in the 26 Counties often said: "Why can't they just get along in the North? Why can't they sit down together and thrash out their problems?" Enter McGuinness.

He was among those who coaxed people from radically different perspectives into doing exactly that. He helped to engineer peace. Not single-handedly -- there were many architects, but he held a pivotal leadership position and the role he played mattered.

To keep peace on track, he entered a groundbreaking, power-sharing government, forming constructive working relationships with first Ian Paisley and then Peter Robinson, once regarded as his political polar opposites. Nobody judged him an inappropriate Deputy First Minister in the Northern Executive. Yet as soon as his name was linked with the Irish presidency, he grew horns and cloven hooves overnight.

The double standards surrounding his entry into the race are breathtaking. (Subs: standalone par please)

Up there has come down here and some of those who should know better are reacting with horror -- and hypocrisy. They are affronted he won't stay in his box in that place apart, this man who admits his IRA past -- although, granted, not with full disclosure -- and whose record shows his evolution as someone who worked hard for peace.

Some call McGuinness a terrorist. If he counts as one, then so do the agents of the British state, because terrorism is the use of violence and intimidation to produce political aims.

Those 30 years of the Troubles were a war, and warfare is not a cocktail party -- it is brutish. Indefensible acts take place during it. But I notice that many of those expressing opinions on the North and its citizens, and why they turned out as they did, hardly ever crossed the border. They are experts about a place they never inconvenienced themselves to get to know.

I grew up in the North during several decades of the Troubles, and I am content that the generation behind me has encountered only peace. But I haven't forgotten the discrimination, the two-tier society: I observed it all around me, I experienced it myself.

I wish the civil rights movement could have brought about reform, but it was not effective -- unfortunately, I don't believe advances would have happened without the IRA campaign. Bloodshed alone achieves nothing worthwhile, but it forced the main players to the negotiating table where progress was achieved.

Some say the price was too high, with so many dead and maimed. I say the North is a fair society now with a viable future.

McGuinness had a hand in this evolution. If those hands once held an AK-47, that is part and parcel of what made him effective as a peacemaker. It gave him influence where he needed to use it.

We must believe in people's capacity for change. For their own sake as well as for ours. I believe in Martin McGuinness's: his track record proves it.

However, I would urge him to be more open about his IRA involvement, on which he is elusive. I suspect a surprising number of people will understand, if not condone, his young man's choice of violence -- tempered by his subsequent renunciation of it.

Let's remember that the North was no normal place and ordinary rules did not apply. It was a society in which the aberrant became commonplace. Armed police, random checkpoints, armoured vehicles on suburban streets and a foreign army were common sights.

Our house was raided just before dawn for no apparent reason, as others were. Does that verb 'raided' convey the fright, the intimidation, the sense of injustice and bullyboy trespass?

It can't possibly communicate the muddy boots on carpets, the mattresses pulled from bed frames, the cupboards ransacked, the boy-soldiers staring at my mother and sister's bodies through their nightdresses -- the officer in charge wouldn't allow them to fetch dressing gowns, another step in the dehumanisation process.

The RUC could not be trusted if your background was nationalist or even just Catholic, and Sinn Fein and the IRA filled the vacuum.

Is McGuinness's past a barrier to the presidency? On the contrary, I regard it as a key element in an inspiring narrative. Here is someone who set down his gun and actively embraced democracy, showing his community how negotiation was a more effective tool than weapons.

He continues to prod his supporters forward, for instance when he urged them to give information to the police about Constable Ronan Kerr's murder. Nor does he confine himself to republican oratory: in 2009 he called those who murdered two soldiers and a police office "traitors to Ireland".

He has made mistakes, however. It was an error not to stand shoulder to shoulder with Peter Robinson at Islandbridge during Queen Elizabeth's visit: that would have been presidential behaviour.

Still, he has demonstrated a longstanding commitment to democracy and we should not take it lightly -- especially as democracy was suspended in the North for a considerable period (internment is only one example).

That aptitude for seeing the broader picture enabled him to make the transition from paramilitary to politician. I believe he has the capacity to make yet another transition, this time to president.

It doesn't hurt that he is a self-made man -- a useful example in recessionary times. Nor that he has volunteered to accept the average industrial wage of just under €36,000, leaving €214,000 plus in the Exchequer. Symbolism matters.

There is concern about the international message his election would communicate. It's up to us to explain that we regard him as someone who has done more to reconcile Orange and Green than any other candidate, should enough of us share this conviction and vote accordingly.

And in case you're still wondering, my mind is made up. My number one preference is going to Martin McGuinness on October 27.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/martina-devlin/martina-devlin-electing-martin-mcguinness-as-president-would-be-a-fitting-acknowledgement-of-his-crucial-role-in-the-peace-process-2884394.html

I thought that was n interesting piece, I think a lot of people have that approach when it comes to MMG. Lots of people have said to me that while they would never vote SF they will be voting for MMG because of his record as a peacemaker.

crucamim

Richard tea wrote: »

Eamon Dunphy & Fintin O' toole are having a debate on the radio at 12:00 on Newstalk 106 - 108fm. I heard Eamon on the radio yesterday and I thought he made some very good points regarding Martins past & election campaign.

Eamon Dunphy v Fintan O'Toole

I am not sure which of those I hate most.

KeithAFC

crucamim wrote: »

Eamon Dunphy v Fintan O'Toole

I am not sure which of those I hate most.

Dunphy once said Gerrard is a nothing player. Why anyone would listen to him bar the entertainment factor is beyond me.

crucamim

vellocet wrote: »

He is on the wind up. Pulling our pissers. Acting the maggot. On a fishing trip. Whatever you want to call it.

If you believe that, there is an "Ignore" button. The truth shall set ye free.

crucamim

KeithAFC wrote: »

Dunphy once said Gerrard is a nothing player. Why anyone would listen to him bar the entertainment factor is beyond me.

Do you live in East Belfast? I live in Derry ... oops .. sorry Londonderry to you.

cardwizzard

KeithAFC wrote: »

Dunphy once said Gerrard is a nothing player. Why anyone would listen to him bar the entertainment factor is beyond me.

In football terms it was 3-0 to Dunphy on Newstalk.

KeithAFC

cardwizzard wrote: »

In football terms it was 3-0 to Dunphy on Newstalk.

Disagree having listened to it, I think Fintan is holding his own.

Sunnyisland

keith whats the graffiti say on the wall in your picture,just curious.

Nodin

realies wrote: »

keith whats the graffiti say on the wall in your picture,just curious.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25151328@N07/2678953539/

steddyeddy

seamus wrote: »

The point is not who or what he's upsetting, it's the obvious implication of what he's saying. It goes to show that he's lost none of the anti-British bigotry that led to decades of terrorism and murdered innocents up North.

Even if people liked the man for his accomplishments, public displays that he has failed to move on and still retains his bigotry will lose him any non-republican support that he would otherwise have from the admiring Irish middle class. He can't win it on the republican vote alone. He can't even make an impression with just the republican vote.

At the end of the day, using terms like "West Brit" makes it appear as though he's still just that same old revolutionary terrorist, but now paying lip service to politics because terrorism has failed and he's too old to keep fighting.

Hold on I get what your saying but anti-Brit bigotry didnt cause the troubles. More like bigotry in general.

crucamim

seamus wrote: »

It goes to show that he's lost none of the anti-British bigotry that led to decades of terrorism and murdered innocents up North.

It was not anti-British bigotry which led to decades of terrorism and murdered innocents. The first shots fired as the British soldiers were fired by Protestants on the Shankill Road in Belfast. The first policeman killed was Victor Arbuckle, shot dead that same night on the Shankill road. The first person killed in the troubles was Francis McCloskey, killed in Dungiven by the Protestant police. The first person shot dead was a Catholic, John Gallagher, killed in Armagh by the Protestant B Specials - none of whom were ever brought to trial. The first petrol bomb was thrown by Protestants at the Civil Rights marchers at Burntollet Bridge. The first bombings were by the Ulster Volunteer Force when they attacked the water lines from the Mourne Mountains into Belfast. The first cross border bombings were by the Protestants. They bombed the grave of Wolfe Tone at Bodestown and also the electricity station at Ballyshannon, Co Donegal.

KeithAFC

crucamim wrote: »

seamus wrote: »

It goes to show that he's lost none of the anti-British bigotry that led to decades of terrorism and murdered innocents up North.

It was not anti-British bigotry which led to decades of terrorism and murdered innocents. The first shots fired as the British soldiers were fired by Protestants on the Shankill Road in Belfast. The first policeman killed was Victor Arbuckle, shot dead that same night on the Shankill road. The first person killed in the troubles was Francis McCloskey, killed in Dungiven by the Protestant police. The first person shot dead was a Catholic, John Gallagher, killed in Armagh by the Protestant B Specials - none of whom were ever brought to trial. The first petrol bomb was thrown by Protestants at the Civil Rights marchers at Burntollet Bridge. The first bombings were by the Ulster Volunteer Force when they attacked the water lines from the Mourne Mountains into Belfast. The first cross border bombings were by the Protestants. They bombed the grave of Wolfe Tone at Bodestown and also the electricity station at Ballyshannon, Co Donegal.

You going to comment on the evil deeds of Rome and it's scandal it's played on this island and the world?

Martin Mcguiness has actually said he has got some support from Protestants on this presidential run.

crucamim

KeithAFC wrote: »

You going to comment on the evil deeds of Rome and it's scandal it's played on this island and the world?

Martin Mcguiness has actually said he has got some support from Protestants on this presidential run.

It was not Rome which ruined by life. It was Presbyterians.

I do not believe that Martin McGuiness has any Protestant supporters - except perhaps a few who want rid of him - even if that means putting him in the ivory tower called "Aras Something or Other".

walrusgumble

KeithAFC wrote: »

You going to comment on the evil deeds of Rome and it's scandal it's played on this island and the world?

Martin Mcguiness has actually said he has got some support from Protestants on this presidential run.

The clergy men of the Roman Catholic Church do not, contrary to some people's belief, have the sole exclusive rights to the sex scandals you know. Of Course, the media and politicians never want that to be known. While no where near the problems of Catholic Church, the Church of Ireland boys have some skeletons in their closet too. And as for the Free Pres, please, cope your self on. Even most Protestant churches would give the Free Presbyterian the time of day.

Sure wasn't it Craig who said, Protestant Ulster for Protestant People?, even Carson felt a tinge unease with this. (Look something like that funny enough was said by DM Moran during the Gaelic League days re Catholics, so pot kettle & black)

I do think that I would be entering silly season to start talking about how the Protestants treated the Catholics prior to the days of O'Connell. So lets not get into it because, I doubt that is what you are referring to.

The Catholic Church, whether you like it or not, have provided some positivist for the building of the State. But to blame the deeds of the Church entirely on Rome is pathetic. The people themselves, the people of faith have some moral blameworthiness in failing to have the courage to stand up to the Church on issues. It is the lay person via Legion of Marys etc that have been the vocal points. Because of years being unable to speak for themselves, they then turn to the church for guidance. Look at the Abortion Referendums as an example. Look at how even Divorce Referendum scrapped over the line. People knew damn well things were going on behind close doors back then. They choose not to believe it. If victims had gone forth years earlier they would nearly have been treated worse for bringing disgrace to the family and packaged off to Britain or elsewhere. By whom? their parents (not all of course).

But hey, Irish people don't like such matters being pointed to them


Being Irish, Northern Irish, British, has been and is always will be more than what religion one should be. Its just the idiots who try to make it out that way.

Liam Byrne

walrusgumble wrote: »

Being Irish, Northern Irish, British, has been and is always will be more than what religion one should be. Its just the idiots who try to make it out that way.

QFT

I remember watching news reports in the days of the worst violence and wondering why they explicitly mentioned someone's religion when saying that someone was murdered in Belfast - and I was only 10 or 12 at the time.

Aside from some objectionable extremists (and they can be on both "sides", even with rampant atheists) there is no relevance in what a person does or doesn't pray to, or where they do it.

KeithAFC

walrusgumble wrote: »

KeithAFC wrote: »

You going to comment on the evil deeds of Rome and it's scandal it's played on this island and the world?

Martin Mcguiness has actually said he has got some support from Protestants on this presidential run.

The clergy men of the Roman Catholic Church do not, contrary to some people's belief, have the sole exclusive rights to the sex scandals you know. Of Course, the media and politicians never want that to be known. While no where near the problems of Catholic Church, the Church of Ireland boys have some skeletons in their closet too. And as for the Free Pres, please, cope your self on. Even most Protestant churches would give the Free Presbyterian the time of day.

Sure wasn't it Craig who said, Protestant Ulster for Protestant People?, even Carson felt a tinge unease with this. (Look something like that funny enough was said by DM Moran during the Gaelic League days re Catholics, so pot kettle & black)

I do think that I would be entering silly season to start talking about how the Protestants treated the Catholics prior to the days of O'Connell. So lets not get into it because, I doubt that is what you are referring to.

The Catholic Church, whether you like it or not, have provided some positivist for the building of the State. But to blame the deeds of the Church entirely on Rome is pathetic. The people themselves, the people of faith have some moral blameworthiness in failing to have the courage to stand up to the Church on issues. It is the lay person via Legion of Marys etc that have been the vocal points. Because of years being unable to speak for themselves, they then turn to the church for guidance. Look at the Abortion Referendums as an example. Look at how even Divorce Referendum scrapped over the line. People knew damn well things were going on behind close doors back then. They choose not to believe it. If victims had gone forth years earlier they would nearly have been treated worse for bringing disgrace to the family and packaged off to Britain or elsewhere. By whom? their parents (not all of course).

But hey, Irish people don't like such matters being pointed to them


Being Irish, Northern Irish, British, has been and is always will be more than what religion one should be. Its just the idiots who try to make it out that way.

I think you will find many people on here disagreeing with you on Rome and their power priests have had on this island. We hear stories coming out all the time of abuse of power with covering child abuse up, taking part in child abuse and adults being haunted by it to this day.

If this poster is posting about Protestants, he should look closer to home within the Catholic church which is hated by a lot of Irish people at the minute and probably beyond repair. Which should be a big worry for Rome.

crucamim

walrusgumble wrote: »

The clergy men of the Roman Catholic Church do not, contrary to some people's belief, have the sole exclusive rights to the sex scandals you know.

What makes you think that Keith or any other Ulster Prod needs to be told that? Do you actually believe that Keith does not know about the Kincora House scandal in Belfast? Or about Dr Lindsay Browne, the vice principal of Bangor Grammar School, a prestigious Protestant school?

Dr Browne advised his employers that he intended to plead guilty to many charges of sexually abusing students over a period of many years. Did they sack him for gross breach of the implied terms of his contract of employment? No, No, No. They offered him a redundancy package which he accepted. So very nice of him.

The redundancy package included a severance payment equal to 6 months salary. Plus his superannuation pension being made payable 6 years before normal retirement age. He was 54 years old and normal retirement age for a teacher's pension is 60. And to put the cap on it, when calculating his pension benefits, he was credited with 6 years additional service to bring it up to what it would have been if he had remained in his employment until aged 60.

The Protestants certainly know how to pamper sex abusers - especially when nearly all of the cost of the pampering is being borne by the taxpayer. If they had any decency in them, the Protestants would offer night classes for those who want to shield and pamper sex abusers. Some of the Catholic bishops would need to attend those night classes.

LordSutch

crucamim wrote: »

The Protestants certainly know how to pamper sex abusers - especially when nearly all of the cost of the pampering is being borne by the taxpayer. . . .

You still rabbiting on about Protestants :rolleyes:

I mentioned this way in post #449, and you're still at it . . . . .

coffee_cake

bluewolf wrote: »

I have already warned twice to get back on topic. This thread is not about religion. 24h ban for failing to listen to mod warning.
Anyone else starts on about it will get the same.

I realise the topic is linked to religion. But that is not what is up for discussion in this thread. This is a politics-elections forum. Not a place to rant about the history of everything that was wrong with religion.
Last warning or I'm locking this.

Pat D. Almighty

realies wrote: »

keith whats the graffiti say on the wall in your picture,just curious.

The graffiti on the wall it's says THEY'RE MAGIC THEY'RE MAGIC...

seamus

steddyeddy wrote: »

Hold on I get what your saying but anti-Brit bigotry didnt cause the troubles. More like bigotry in general.

crucamim wrote: »

It was not anti-British bigotry which led to decades of terrorism and murdered innocents.

Yes, apologies. On re-reading what I wrote, "led" is not what I intended. "aggravated" is probably closer to what I actually meant.

Surprise, surprise, like I requested previously in this thread and got no coherent responses, McGuinness himself has refused to clarify what a "West-Brit" is. He knows, like those that use it here on boards, that it's a derogatory term which directly implies an anti-British agenda on the part of the person who uses it.

caseyann

seamus wrote: »

Yes, apologies. On re-reading what I wrote, "led" is not what I intended. "aggravated" is probably closer to what I actually meant.

Surprise, surprise, like I requested previously in this thread and got no coherent responses, McGuinness himself has refused to clarify what a "West-Brit" is. He knows, like those that use it here on boards, that it's a derogatory term which directly implies an anti-British agenda on the part of the person who uses it.

West Brit is a sell out,holds no value on Irish history and is someone who supports the destruction of Irish culture language and freedom.Who would crawl up Lizzie butt as fast as they could.Like Irish government .usurpers!

Tiocfaidh Armani

Pat D. Almighty wrote: »

The graffiti on the wall it's says THEY'RE MAGIC THEY'RE MAGIC...

And "uh ah..."