Joan Burton will drive up the number of old people suffering from cold this winter

cyberhog

Some older people are going to be in for a tough winter this year thanks to Joan Burton's cuts to the winter fuel allowance.

A report on fuel poverty in Ireland by UCD stated:

Ireland and the UK have the highest rates of seasonal mortality in northern Europe.... There are also strong associations between inadequately heated homes and increased rates of morbidity; higher incidences of various cardiovascular and respiratory diseases have been associated with chronic cold exposure from within the home through living in fuel-poor conditions.

It is perhaps logical to surmise that the fuel allowance, while ineffective in reducing the overall level of fuel poverty in Ireland, does reduce the severity of experience of fuel poverty among the low-income households it covers.

http://www.ucd.ie/gpep/research/archivedworkingpapers/2002/02-05.pdf

The cuts approved by Government last July were regrettable but necessary to achieve savings due to our commitments to the IMF-EU-ECB troika, Minister for Social Protection Joan Burton had said.

Sounds like Joan is more interested in looking after the troika than being Minister for Social Protection

I wonder if Joan has ever had to sit in a freezing cold house in the middle of winter because you have to ration your home heating? Somehow I doubt she has ever experienced the kind of severe hardship that she will put some older people through this winter.

Richard Hillman

Do you have links to the ULA?

MagicSean

"perhaps logical to surmise" Not exactly what you'd call a definitive conclusion.

wolfpawnat

Burton couldn't care less about the need to protect children and the elderly, if she did she would be advocating these aids for their welfare!

Instead of trying to stomp out welfare fraud and looking after those in need, Labour (who in their manifesto stated the would not touch those on welfare) are now helping with a budget that miraculously is far more severe than it should have been since we are doing well with our deal with the EU/IMF that will cut child benefit, pensions, fuel allowance, careers allowance, disability, and Job seekers for people who cannot help the position they are in!

4leto

I don't know if you are up with current affairs but we are still running a massive deficit, the IMF/ECB are breathing down our necks and we are still out of the money markets.

They have to cut somewhere Education, Social welfare and health are our 3 biggest budgets, each of these are politically sensitive.

I am not a fan of Burton or Labour but people have to realise the very welfare state is under threat and is in very real danger of totally failing if we don't check our budget.

So if burton cannot cut here, I ask where can she cut?

I am afraid tackling social welfare fraud is nowhere near enough.

the keen edge

Old people, save on home heating costs this winter by dying in October.

krudler

if only we could find a way to harness the hot air that billows out of that wretched geebags mouth we could heat the entire country.

Temptamperu

I rekcon we should insulate our own houses with the old folks... saving us money and the government. I really should run for politics

4leto

Please delete

Temptamperu

I didnt post in here before did I

4leto

Temptamperu wrote: »

I didnt post in here before did I

Sorry I mistakenly thought you were the OP

I deleted the post:(

mossyc123

A well thought out OP.

Just a quick question.

Does this fuel allowance apply across the board or is it a special allowance for those who need it?

My parents are OAP's and they certainly don't need a fuel allowance as they are (like many, many people of that age) much better off then the general population.

Wibbs

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Burton couldn't care less about the need to protect children and the elderly, if she did she would be advocating these aids for their welfare!

Instead of trying to stomp out welfare fraud and looking after those in need, Labour (who in their manifesto stated the would not touch those on welfare) are now helping with a budget that miraculously is far more severe than it should have been since we are doing well with our deal with the EU/IMF that will cut child benefit, pensions, fuel allowance, careers allowance, disability, and Job seekers for people who cannot help the position they are in!

The bit in bold is a biggie. The amount of people out there openly defrauding the welfare system is utterly ridiculous. I can think of numerous people who do so. One guy is so brazen I really don't know how he gets away with it. No you really wouldn't believe it if I detailed how brazen he is, but the details would be too recognisable so... Yet another guy I know who is on welfare and gets crap when he is honest about his needs or if he picks up some (rare)work and declares it. I know another self employed guy whose business is going under because he can't hope to compete in his industry when his competitors for jobs are on welfare for their basic income and pad that out with undeclared tax free work and cutting their quotes accordingly. Some job areas are a nightmare and open secret for it. Where are the inspectors in all this?:mad:

Wibbs

mossyc123 wrote: »

A well thought out OP.

Just a quick question.

Does this fuel allowance apply across the board or is it a special allowance for those who need it?

My parents are OAP's and they certainly don't need a fuel allowance as they are (like many, many people of that age) much better off then the general population.

Agreed. It should be means tested which should free up a lot of funds. Of all the groups in need of welfare I'm loathe to go for the elderly. They've for the most part worked hard all their lives and built up this country and IMHO deserve some security in their last years, but they're not a homogenous group either. Some are as you say very well off financially and that's great, but they should not be treated the same as some widower on his own with just the basic old age pension for sustenance.

Lord TSC

While we're on the subject...

I got a letter yesterday. A form from the social welfare which I was told to fill out to see if I was applicable for the fuel benefits. I never asked for it, since I'm 24 and living at home and thus don't need it, but I presume every unemployed person in the country thus got the form. Even apart from the expense of sending out the letter to over 400,000, I'd imagine you're going to get every Tom, Dick and Harry applying and even some getting it without actually needing it, since all it takes to apply now is to fill out the form they sent out.

Surely if there's a worry about actually being able to afford to pay all of this benefit and there's talks of cuts, the last thing you should be doing is bringing it to the attention of every unemployed person. Surely it would be more cost effecient to, say, take out adds in papers or on TV telling people they may be entitled. I'd imagine you'd get less chancers that way....

wolfpawnat

you are offered it after 18 months on the SW. They ask you to fill the form, it doesn't mean you will receive it. They take into account who you are living with etc

mossyc123

I know it sounds awfully simplistic but why not invest all that we can in home insulation schemes.

Cut down future energy costs and put some young construction workers back in proper employnment.

Temptamperu

mossyc123 wrote: »

I know it sounds awfully simplistic but why not invest all that we can in home insulation schemes.

Cut down future energy costs and put some young construction workers back in proper employnment.

Common sense? in this country?

ejmaztec

Wibbs wrote: »

The bit in bold is a biggie. The amount of people out there openly defrauding the welfare system is utterly ridiculous. I can think of numerous people who do so. One guy is so brazen I really don't know how he gets away with it. No you really wouldn't believe it if I detailed how brazen he is, but the details would be too recognisable so... Yet another guy I know who is on welfare and gets crap when he is honest about his needs or if he picks up some (rare)work and declares it. I know another self employed guy whose business is going under because he can't hope to compete in his industry when his competitors for jobs are on welfare for their basic income and pad that out with undeclared tax free work and cutting their quotes accordingly. Some job areas are a nightmare and open secret for it. Where are the inspectors in all this?:mad:

Some people are still getting multiple benefits, each different to the others, and are racking up phenomenal incomes when these are all added together. I dread to think how many people in the country are getting these.

Because there are so many people unemployed, I don't think that the welfare crowd have the man-power to do a proper job where investigations are concerned, and I assume that they're not taking on many new recruits thanks to the cut-backs in general. For most fraudsters it's going to be business as usual, unless more people start tipping off the authorities.

headmaster

It's ok for some people to share the pain, but not everyone. Well, why bloody not? Pensioners get aprox€1000.00 per month into their hands, free fuel, free medical card, free tv license, free travel, free esb, free telephone line and everything else as well. This is huge, as most have very, very, few overheads. My own parent stays with us, pays us nothing, complains about everything, god knows what she's putting aside. Time for a real reality check here, it's very easy for some people to tell us how difficult it is to live on the pension, how hard is it to live on the amounts shown? not too hard at all if we're being honest. Most people here tell us the old need more of everything. Well, if you all took in your old relatives, you would soon know how flipping easy they are having it, time for the bull**** to stop and the truth to be told. The pension should be reduced or taxed and pretty severely as well.

4leto

Wibbs wrote: »

The bit in bold is a biggie. The amount of people out there openly defrauding the welfare system is utterly ridiculous. I can think of numerous people who do so. One guy is so brazen I really don't know how he gets away with it. No you really wouldn't believe it if I detailed how brazen he is, but the details would be too recognisable so... Yet another guy I know who is on welfare and gets crap when he is honest about his needs or if he picks up some (rare)work and declares it. I know another self employed guy whose business is going under because he can't hope to compete in his industry when his competitors for jobs are on welfare for their basic income and pad that out with undeclared tax free work and cutting their quotes accordingly. Some job areas are a nightmare and open secret for it. Where are the inspectors in all this?:mad:

I know someone who got caught, a taximan drawing the dole and paying no taxes. In the case against him there were photographs, logs of his whereabouts for a week, it was as if they hired a detective. So that is the level of evidence you need for a conviction, you could hire the extra staff, but that would offset the savings.

A happy ending, no, he was told to pay it back in increments, then after about 6 months of repayments he pleaded illness and poverty and that put a stop to that.

He is genuinely ill now and can't work, karma some would say.

ejmaztec

headmaster wrote: »

It's ok for some people to share the pain, but not everyone. Well, why bloody not? Pensioners get aprox€1000.00 per month into their hands, free fuel, free medical card, free tv license, free travel, free esb, free telephone line and everything else as well. This is huge, as most have very, very, few overheads. My own parent stays with us, pays us nothing, complains about everything, god knows what she's putting aside. Time for a real reality check here, it's very easy for some people to tell us how difficult it is to live on the pension, how hard is it to live on the amounts shown? not too hard at all if we're being honest. Most people here tell us the old need more of everything. Well, if you all took in your old relatives, you would soon know how flipping easy they are having it, time for the bull**** to stop and the truth to be told. The pension should be reduced or taxed and pretty severely as well.

How much did you pay your parents when they brought you up?

booboo88

4leto wrote: »

I don't know if you are up with current affairs but we are still running a massive deficit, the IMF/ECB are breathing down our necks and we are still out of the money markets.

They have to cut somewhere Education, Social welfare and health are our 3 biggest budgets, each of these are politically sensitive.

I am not a fan of Burton or Labour but people have to realise the very welfare state is under threat and is in very real danger of totally failing if we don't check our budget.

So if burton cannot cut here, I ask where can she cut?

I am afraid tackling social welfare fraud is nowhere near enough.

While I agree with what your saying, they're are people born in 1990 getting the free allowance aswell(i know this for a fact as i work in a leccy co)
so rather than taking anything else off the elderly, just remove it from those who havent paid a damn tax in their bloody life:rolleyes:


respect your elders, used to be a thing people lived by, now it seems people class the elderly as a burden which is a very sad state we're in.

El Weirdo

Wibbs wrote: »

...One guy is so brazen I really don't know how he gets away with it. No you really wouldn't believe it if I detailed how brazen he is, but the details would be too recognisable so...

Have you ever reported this person, Wibbs? If so, what was the outcome?

headmaster wrote: »

Pensioners get aprox€1000.00 per month into their hands, free fuel, free medical card, free tv license, free travel, free esb, free telephone line

Slightly disingenuous, tbf. They get a certain amount of free electricity credits, a fuel allowance and I believe that the line rental for the phone is free and they still have to pay for the calls.

headmaster

ejmaztec wrote: »

How much did you pay your parents when they brought you up?

Oh gosh, i thought they decided they wanted me, not the other way round. I'd have thought that their responsibility was to bring me up as i wasn't working from 0 yrs to 16. Ole age pensioners are being paid way too much in money and extras, time for them to pay up. As a matter of interest, the majority paid nothing to this state all their lives. Truth hurts, doesn't it fella? Now it's time for pay up and shut up. End.

4leto

booboo88 wrote: »

While I agree with what your saying, they're are people born in 1990 getting the free allowance aswell(i know this for a fact as i work in a leccy co)
so rather than taking anything else off the elderly, just remove it from those who havent paid a damn tax in their bloody life:rolleyes:


respect your elders, used to be a thing people lived by, now it seems people class the elderly as a burden which is a very sad state we're in.

I am just saying she has to cut somewhere and no matter where she cuts it is going to effect the weaker members of society.

Its the way it works at first you cut what is easy, but as time goes on you have to start cutting things which would have been impossible to cut, say 5 years ago.

The last thing they will cut (and they will have to eventually) is health, so expect to see more trollies in casualty, ETC, in the future.

People seem to think cutting social welfare fraud is the great painless panacea to solve all the problems of the budget deficit it is no where even nearly enough.

westendgirlie

headmaster wrote: »

Oh gosh, i thought they decided they wanted me, not the other way round. I'd have thought that their responsibility was to bring me up as i wasn't working from 0 yrs to 16. Ole age pensioners are being paid way too much in money and extras, time for them to pay up. As a matter of interest, the majority paid nothing to this state all their lives. Truth hurts, doesn't it fella? Now it's time for pay up and shut up. End.

So you left home at 16? After that you never got your mum to wash your skid marked pants, make you dinner or give you some beer tokens cos you were skint?

Judging by your attitude to your parents you sound like you were a nightmare to bring up. So power to your mum for turning the tables and giving you a taste of the miserable life you gave her!

Bens

Wait for the calls from politicians to "Check on your elderly neighbors during the cold weather as its particularly hard on the elderly", as soon as the weather gets cold.

Yet they are the ones who make sure that the elderly cant afford to have the heat on.

Leave the pensioners alone. They have gone through more hardship now and in the past than any of the rest of us will ever see. And their high taxes brought the rest of us up.

El Weirdo

headmaster wrote: »

Ole age pensioners are being paid way too much in money and extras, time for them to pay up. As a matter of interest, the majority paid nothing to this state all their lives. Truth hurts, doesn't it fella? Now it's time for pay up and shut up. End.

Well you sound truly delightful. I sincerely hope that you are not an actual headmaster because with that attitude, I really fear for our kids.

booboo88

4leto wrote: »

I am just saying she has to cut somewhere and no matter where she cuts it is going to effect the weaker members of society.

Its the way it works at first you cut what is easy, but as time goes on you have to start cutting things which would have been impossible to cut, say 5 years ago.

The last thing they will cut (and they will have to eventually) is health, so expect to see more trollies in casualty, ETC, in the future.

People seem to think cutting social welfare fraud is the great painless panacea to solve all the problems of the budget deficit it is no where even nearly enough.

I know but if they weren't so quick to give it to anyone on social welfare, elderly people do need their heat etc, i can see this ending with a few people dying being honest, remember last year when the woman froze to death as the council never turn back on the heating?

we're in for a bloody harsh winter and i think its a disgrace that we're cutting the most vulnerable. by that i mean the elderly, not the young ones who were "means tested"

dark crystal

booboo88 wrote: »

I know but if they weren't so quick to give it to anyone on social welfare, elderly people do need their heat etc, i can see this ending with a few people dying being honest, remember last year when the woman froze to death as the council never turn back on the heating?

we're in for a bloody harsh winter and i think its a disgrace that we're cutting the most vulnerable. by that i mean the elderly, not the young ones who were "means tested"

In that case, it was a young mother who froze to death, not an elderly person.

I agree to an extent with the poster above, who stated that many pensioners have quite a lot of benefits, but not a lot of overheads. Why should they not be touched at all, in that case?

Wibbs

El Weirdo wrote: »

Have you ever reported this person, Wibbs? If so, what was the outcome?

I didn't but someone else did. And what happened EL? Nothing. Ditto for another chancer I know who was reported by someone who he had ripped off.

Slightly disingenuous, tbf. They get a certain amount of free electricity credits, a fuel allowance and I believe that the line rental for the phone is free and they still have to pay for the calls.

Exactly. More than disingenuous IMH. They get a percentage off their electricity and it's not very high. Like you say it's a fuel allowance, not free fuel. Free travel on public transport is hardly breaking the bank either. Free phone line rental yes, not free calls. They lose the majority of these benefits if they live with a non retired person, so if headmaster's parent is getting any of that, beyond the medical card and the bus pass she's defrauding the system.

headmaster wrote:

Ole age pensioners are being paid way too much in money and extras, time for them to pay up. As a matter of interest, the majority paid nothing to this state all their lives. Truth hurts, doesn't it fella? Now it's time for pay up and shut up. End.

Huh? I dunno why you take such issue with pensioners, nor spout a lot of misinformed stuff about what they're entitled to? Maybe it's projection of conflict within your own situation? Who knows. Anyway where you get the "majority paid nothing to this state all their lives" notion is beyond me. So we didn't have a tax system in place since the foundation of this state then? We didn't have income tax or VAT or motor tax or... until you got your first job? That we somehow leaped from some odd taxless, jobless society to today? That somehow our parents, grandparents and great grandparents sat around all day, tax free, not building and maintaining this society? Truth hurts indeed.

amacachi

It's odd, on the one hand I keep hearing how 188 a week is enough for people to smoke, drink and smoke loads of drugs and yet pensioners on 219 supposedly can't afford to heat their house. Amazing.

mossyc123

Bens wrote: »

Leave the pensioners alone. They have gone through more hardship now and in the past than any of the rest of us will ever see.

I don't know about the hardship thing really.

Someone turning 65 this year was born in 1946 not 1846.

The 1960's was probably a better time to be starting your working life then 2011 is.

We've a tendency to look back as if the country was some sort of a hellhole before 1990.

I don't buy it and I think it's a convenient piece of BS peddled by the older generation.

booboo88

dark crystal wrote: »

In that case, it was a young mother who froze to death, not an elderly person.

I agree to an extent with the poster above, who stated that many pensioners have quite a lot of benefits, but not a lot of overheads. Why should they not be touched at all, in that case?

exactly my point, elderly people would be more vulnerable than a young person.

4leto

booboo88 wrote: »

I know but if they weren't so quick to give it to anyone on social welfare, elderly people do need their heat etc, i can see this ending with a few people dying being honest, remember last year when the woman froze to death as the council never turn back on the heating?

we're in for a bloody harsh winter and i think its a disgrace that we're cutting the most vulnerable. by that i mean the elderly, not the young ones who were "means tested"

And off course I couldn't disagree with that, I was reading another government department (local Government) was stacking up on grit. So some branches of government are preparing for a harsh winter.

I would love to say, don't cut anywhere, I don't know about fuel allowance entitlement for younger "means tested" people, but are there children involved in those means tests.

It is harsh and in comparison to any European country and even if fuel allowance is cut our OAPs are generous.

Wibbs

amacachi wrote: »

It's odd, on the one hand I keep hearing how 188 a week is enough for people to smoke, drink and smoke loads of drugs and yet pensioners on 219 supposedly can't afford to heat their house. Amazing.

Oh I agree. The problem as I see it is that the government(as per usual) won't be inventive with the cuts. Yes cut the pension, but apply the cuts to those who don't require the pension first. The well off pensioners that have independent pensions for a start. There's a vast gulf between say a retired surgeon paying no mortgage or rent and a working class widow living in rented accommodation.

Mike 1972

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Surely it would be more cost effecient to, say, take out adds in papers or on TV telling people they may be entitled. I'd imagine you'd get less chancers that way....

Not everyone reads papers or watches TV (even those who do may not watch/read Irish channels/papers) If anything Irish government departments spend too much on advertising (much of it completely pointless).

On the other hand their IT systems should be set up to ensure that only those actually entitled to the benefit should get the letters or better still should work out from the information already available to them who is entitled to the benefit and pay it automatically.

But if the SW system were actually efficient half the paper pushers would be out of work.

meitina

headmaster wrote: »

Oh gosh, i thought they decided they wanted me, not the other way round. I'd have thought that their responsibility was to bring me up as i wasn't working from 0 yrs to 16. Ole age pensioners are being paid way too much in money and extras, time for them to pay up. As a matter of interest, the majority paid nothing to this state all their lives. Truth hurts, doesn't it fella? Now it's time for pay up and shut up. End.

Oh,gosh!You are talking,like the old age might never catch you!
we all gonna be old one day,and you are going to have a taste of your own medicine, judging from what you'll teach your own kids....

booboo88

4leto wrote: »

And off course I couldn't disagree with that, I was reading another government department (local Government) was stacking up on grit. So some branches of government are preparing for a harsh winter.

I would love to say, don't cut anywhere, I don't know about fuel allowance entitlement for younger "means tested" people, but are there children involved in those means tests.

It is harsh and in comparison to any European country and even if fuel allowance is cut our OAPs are generous.

So screw the elderly, they've had their day?

amacachi

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh I agree. The problem as I see it is that the government(as per usual) won't be inventive with the cuts. Yes cut the pension, but apply the cuts to those who don't require the pension first. The well off pensioners that have independent pensions for a start. There's a vast gulf between say a retired surgeon paying no mortgage or rent and a working class widow living in rented accommodation.

Exactly, but remember when FF (and I hate FF :pac: ) tried to cut the medical card for the ludicrously well-off top couple of percent of pensioners and they were "shamed" into making a U-turn? Now of course everyone will be cut a few quid a week. Also as far as I know it's not just pensioners losing this heating allowance, it's people on the dole, invalidity, disability etc.

dark crystal

booboo88 wrote: »

exactly my point, elderly people would be more vulnerable than a young person.

How was an elderly person more vulnerable in that case than the young mother who actually froze to death?

Solair

One of the biggest problems is the standard of building insulation / heating in Ireland and also in Britain. There are still many homes that have no central heating and almost no insulation and they tend to be occupied by elderly people.

There was something odd about British and Irish attitudes to cold weather in the past. It was like we pretended that we didn't actually have any.

In fact, Ireland's probably a bit better than England when it comes to central heating. It's amazing the amount of flats in England you'll find have nothing only electric heaters (and I'm not talking storage heating!)

A friend of mine lives in a flat in London and just before the harshest winter in about 30 years the local council decided that the double-glazing that had been fitted 20 years ago had to be removed as it was suddenly deemed to be a heritage building!

They now have damp problems and last winter had ice hanging from the ceiling over the windows!

There is something severely wrong with a bunch of regulations that would basically require people to freeze in order to ensure that the building looks sufficiently pretty.

To get back to Ireland - the biggest issue from what I can see dealing with even my own elderly relatives is single glazed, draughty windows. Properly insulated windows didn't seem to feature in Ireland or Britain until the late 1980s. Many homes built before the 1980s seem to have absolutely no insulation at all too. It's mind-boggling to see homes with not even basic insulation in the attic.

Then throw in the fact that until the 1970s, central heating was an optional extra and many older people seem to still see it as a ridiculous luxury.

These homes cost a fortune to heat and drive people into unnecessary fuel poverty over winter too.

I would go a bit further too. Many older Irish and British people have some rather odd attitudes to some of these things. I know that I have had major arguments with elderly relatives to convince them to let family members pay to install central heating. It wasn't a case of pride or anything like that. They basically seemed to think that it was a totally unnecessary luxury and in one case, an elderly aunt, actually argued that 'the awl gas dries out the air'.

I've seen similar attitudes from older British people too. It's like they lived through hard times and seem to put themselves into dangerous situations like that.

There are also ridiculous attitudes from landlords and local authority landlords about heating / insulation standards.

The case of that woman freezing to death in an apartment was just nuts. It should not have been able to happen as the building regulations, even in the 1960s, should not have allowed the construction of a building that could get that cold and if the heating system was removed it should not have been occupied.

We urgently need a serious programme of insulation and heating upgrading / installation. It should have been done during the boom times but wasn't!

It would save lives, reduce CO2 outputs, and reduce health costs and save wasted resources being spent on fuel allowances that heat the sky above homes!

We have to get realistic about heating and building regulations. They're still treated as some kind of minor inconvenience.

4leto

booboo88 wrote: »

So screw the elderly, they've had their day?

No
Increase their pension, double it and install free gas central heating to everyone on a pension.

Would you do that.

We a re going to have the same debate as the cuts get more and more politically sensitive. Will you also say screw the sick when the health budget is slashed, and it will be slashed, there is no doubt about that.

I as I said would love to say don't cut anywhere when it effects the most vulnerable but I just don't think that is possible.

booboo88

4leto wrote: »

No
Increase their pension, double it and install free gas central heating to everyone on a pension.

Would you do that.

We a re going to have the same debate as the cuts get more and more politically sensitive. Will you also say screw the sick when the health budget is slashed, and it will be slashed, there is no doubt about that.

I as I said would love to say don't cut anywhere when it effects the most vulnerable but I just don't think that is possible.

Thats exactly where they are cutting, the most vulnerable. never mind those pensioners who the private pension, they wont cut there, our their own bloody pockets, when this is all their mess.

headmaster

westendgirlie wrote: »

So you left home at 16? After that you never got your mum to wash your skid marked pants, make you dinner or give you some beer tokens cos you were skint?

Judging by your attitude to your parents you sound like you were a nightmare to bring up. So power to your mum for turning the tables and giving you a taste of the miserable life you gave her!

westendgirlie
Another one of the muppets that judge people without knowing anything. Yes, i left home at 16, worked abroad all my life, didn't come home for 50 years. I came back when my mother became ill, permanently a few years later and we are looking after her now for quite a while. Most Irish are not doing this, we are. No, my mum didn't do much for me, but i will for her. This does not take away from the fact that ole age pensioners are being paid double what should be given.

So you bright spark, stop jumping to conclusions that have no basis. Typical small town irish gossiper, i've met quite a lot of you. No change in all those years on that score

El Weirdo

Solair wrote: »

We urgently need a serious programme of insulation and heating upgrading / installation. It should have been done during the boom times but wasn't!

It would save lives, reduce CO2 outputs, and reduce health costs and save wasted resources being spent on fuel allowances that heat the sky above homes!

Not to mention a badly-needed employment injection.

4leto

Solair wrote: »

One of the biggest problems is the standard of building insulation / heating in Ireland and also in Britain. There are still many homes that have no central heating and almost no insulation and they tend to be occupied by elderly people.

There was something odd about British and Irish attitudes to cold weather in the past. It was like we pretended that we didn't actually have any.

In fact, Ireland's probably a bit better than England when it comes to central heating. It's amazing the amount of flats in England you'll find have nothing only electric heaters (and I'm not talking storage heating!)

A friend of mine lives in a flat in London and just before the harshest winter in about 30 years the local council decided that the double-glazing that had been fitted 20 years ago had to be removed as it was suddenly deemed to be a heritage building!

They now have damp problems and last winter had ice hanging from the ceiling over the windows!

There is something severely wrong with a bunch of regulations that would basically require people to freeze in order to ensure that the building looks sufficiently pretty.

To get back to Ireland - the biggest issue from what I can see dealing with even my own elderly relatives is single glazed, draughty windows. Properly insulated windows didn't seem to feature in Ireland or Britain until the late 1980s. Many homes built before the 1980s seem to have absolutely no insulation at all too. It's mind-boggling to see homes with not even basic insulation in the attic.

Then throw in the fact that until the 1970s, central heating was an optional extra and many older people seem to still see it as a ridiculous luxury.

These homes cost a fortune to heat and drive people into unnecessary fuel poverty over winter too.

I would go a bit further too. Many older Irish and British people have some rather odd attitudes to some of these things. I know that I have had major arguments with elderly relatives to convince them to let family members pay to install central heating. It wasn't a case of pride or anything like that. They basically seemed to think that it was a totally unnecessary luxury and in one case, an elderly aunt, actually argued that 'the awl gas dries out the air'.

I've seen similar attitudes from older British people too. It's like they lived through hard times and seem to put themselves into dangerous situations like that.

There are also ridiculous attitudes from landlords and local authority landlords about heating / insulation standards.

The case of that woman freezing to death in an apartment was just nuts. It should not have been able to happen as the building regulations, even in the 1960s, should not have allowed the construction of a building that could get that cold and if the heating system was removed it should not have been occupied.

We urgently need a serious programme of insulation and heating upgrading / installation. It should have been done during the boom times but wasn't!

It would save lives, reduce CO2 outputs, and reduce health costs and save wasted resources being spent on fuel allowances that heat the sky above homes!

We have to get realistic about heating and building regulations. They're still treated as some kind of minor inconvenience.

Great and interesting post, just to add to your comment, personally we are trying to get my elderly ill father's house renovated, the grants are generous,
but the problem is him.

He is offering up the same stupid excuses as "drying out the air", but we are starting to realise he just doesn't want the hassle of the building and disruption that will cause. I think that is a common theme with the elderly.

mawk

We could get a few of the pensioners that are living alone to move in together. A human radiates nearly 3.5kw between sensible and latent heat. Thats as much as a big electric heater. five of them in a room? Toasty

Solves loneliness too.

westendgirlie

headmaster wrote: »

westendgirlie
Another one of the muppets that judge people without knowing anything. Yes, i left home at 16, worked abroad all my life, didn't come home for 50 years. I came back when my mother became ill, permanently a few years later and we are looking after her now for quite a while. Most Irish are not doing this, we are. No, my mum didn't do much for me, but i will for her. This does not take away from the fact that ole age pensioners are being paid double what should be given.

So you bright spark, stop jumping to conclusions that have no basis. Typical small town irish gossiper, i've met quite a lot of you. No change in all those years on that score

Headmaster, first and foremost I put a question mark at the end of my sentences. That put the onus on you to explain your comments.
Secondly, your own statement on a public forum gave me right to reply. You will see that I typed the words "judging by your comments". I was responding to you, no one else. Kind of difficult to gossip about someone when they are the person you are talking to. Wouldn't you agree?
Thirdly, your initial post and the one quoted above contradict each other somewhat. You talk of pensioners benefitting from esb, phone and fuel perks. As said by another poster. These are not available if you are living with someone else. Unless, you mother has her own phone and electric supplies in your abode?

I don't want to take away from the fact that you say your mother is terminally ill. I understand how stressful a situation like that can be. You are entitled to carers allowance though and I would advise you to find out about it.

What your mother does with the remains of her money is none of my business. Whether she contributes to your household is between you and her.

ejmaztec

headmaster wrote: »

westendgirlie
Another one of the muppets that judge people without knowing anything. Yes, i left home at 16, worked abroad all my life, didn't come home for 50 years. I came back when my mother became ill, permanently a few years later and we are looking after her now for quite a while. Most Irish are not doing this, we are. No, my mum didn't do much for me, but i will for her. This does not take away from the fact that ole age pensioners are being paid double what should be given.

So you bright spark, stop jumping to conclusions that have no basis. Typical small town irish gossiper, i've met quite a lot of you. No change in all those years on that score

You seem to be jumping to conclusions in assuming that you're in the minority when it comes to Irish people looking after an old parent, which says a lot.