Muntjac....Myth or actual existence?

rabbit assassin

Was down in the local last night for a few pints and over heard a lad saying how he was getting on so far in the dear season. He was saying how this weekend himself and another lad are heading down to Wicklow in pursuit of Muntjac as he saw quite a few down there last weekend. Im a bit sceptical... Is there any photographic proof that they are breeding here ? I've read articles of sightings of them all over the country but surely there'd be 1 or 2 shot by now? Also the same eejit was saying how they intend on travelling to another part of Wicklow where there have been some breed of wild pig roaming around a forest and a few had been shot in recent weeks. Firstly Id like to know for a fact has anyone seen them and is there photographic proof? Secondly , Are we not better off not shooting them for a year or three so they can re produce and spread or possibly catch some and release in a different area? I hate people that think "Oh they have to be shot " the type of people that shoot 8 or 10 cocks on the first day of the pheasant season. :mad: I cant stand people that are like this ! Conservation is key to the future of our sport ! Just like the way some lads shoot 3 or 4 deer on the first day of the season, just makes me so angry ! some people are just too trigger happy :mad::mad:

deerhunter1

rabbit assassin wrote: »

Was down in the local last night for a few pints and over heard a lad saying how he was getting on so far in the dear season. He was saying how this weekend himself and another lad are heading down to Wicklow in pursuit of Muntjac as he saw quite a few down there last weekend. Im a bit sceptical... Is there any photographic proof that they are breeding here ? I've read articles of sightings of them all over the country but surely there'd be 1 or 2 shot by now? Also the same eejit was saying how they intend on travelling to another part of Wicklow where there have been some breed of wild pig roaming around a forest and a few had been shot in recent weeks. Firstly Id like to know for a fact has anyone seen them and is there photographic proof? Secondly , Are we not better off not shooting them for a year or three so they can re produce and spread or possibly catch some and release in a different area? I hate people that think "Oh they have to be shot " the type of people that shoot 8 or 10 cocks on the first day of the pheasant season. :mad: I cant stand people that are like this ! Conservation is key to the future of our sport ! Just like the way some lads shoot 3 or 4 deer on the first day of the season, just makes me so angry ! some people are just too trigger happy :mad::mad:

As you said in your post Conservation is the key, though it would be nice to have some extra game to shoot/hunt, these animals though not indigenous to this country can cause huge damage to the flora/fauna of this country (Diseases etc) brought on by some morons who brought them here/or released them not realising the consequences of their actions,yes there are Munjac and some feral pigs/ out there and have been shot in the past

Tackleberrywho

you seem to be making a load of points here.
My reading of it is.
They are shooting too many deer.
They are hunting Muntjac's
They are bragging about it in a public house.

My take is this.

Believe half of what you see and nothing what you hear.

Muntjacs are offered an open season to help with their eradication as an Illegal to release INVASIVE species.

If I saw a Munti on my permissions I would shoot to kill, photograph and post pic to NPWS with a Grid ref

dev110

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

If I saw a Munti on my permissions I would shoot to kill, photograph and post pic to NPWS with a Grid ref

Why do you shoot to wound otherwise?

I remember It Wasn't Me saying that there was a few being sighted around him, I think it was him.

They are the size of a big dog so would be difficult to see in a forest.
They can cause a lot of damage to the local flora and fauna.

I wouldn't believe anything you hear in a pub especially when a few pints have been taken on board

Glensman

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

If I saw a Munti on my permissions I would shoot to kill, photograph and post pic to NPWS with a Grid ref

Always suspected you as a Thatcherite Tack- now I have it confirmed!!

Hibrion

The whole Muntjac thing has been covered a lot, lads. Quite a few people have seen them, including myself. They all seem to be in Wicklow too. Most people don't take cameras shooting with them. Even if they did, there are few of us that would have a lens that will take a shot as clear as you will see through a good quality scope like a S&B.

They are listed as an invasive species and can be shot. So, if you see one and it is in season treat it like any other deer. That's what I'll do if I ever see another anyway. If I do happen to bag one, I'll be more than happy to take a picture of it before it goes into a stew.

Einhard

Godammit, I'm not a hunter, so when I saw this thread on the front page I got all excited thinking it was gonna be about some form of Irish Bigfoot wandering around the Wicklow Hills!! Reality is always ruining my fun!! :mad:

moby30

I'm shooting in Wicklow myself and haven't come accross any. I know of one reliable source who says he saw one and the local rangers reacon they are up around the Wicklow gap. It is funny though when it's mentioned in the pub and all of a sudden everyone has seen one and loads have been shot:)

Tackleberrywho

I was looking at 4 fallow Does yesterday evening, when they moved on I realized there were 4 Does and one Fawn.

I did not notice the fawn curled up behind it's mother.

A Munty is ~ the size of a fawn, from the sculls I have seen on show in a shop in NI.

So therefore I would believe they would be hard to spot.
But still shootable as they are bigger than a hare and you spot hare all the time while out stalking.

Grizzly 45

Re the first post.It sounds like pub talk.
Second,if there is such an amount of Muntjac here in the ROI,we should start seeing some more on the deer returns for this seasons end.As it has been three years now since first discovery,and they are prolific breeders,apprently.So it should start showing up.

Proof[for me] would be a picture of the carcass with a local paper with a current date clearly visible.At least then it would put to bed the denial of them not being here.:)

Hibrion

One problem we might be having with the deer returns, is that there are a lot of "hunters" out there who don't know one species from the next. Some only know which end of the barrel is the dangerous one, and point it at anything that flickers in the lamp light.

dwighet

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I was looking at 4 fallow Does yesterday evening, when they moved on I realized there were 4 Does and one Fawn.

I did not notice the fawn curled up behind it's mother.

A Munty is ~ the size of a fawn, from the sculls I have seen on show in a shop in NI.

So therefore I would believe they would be hard to spot.
But still shootable as they are bigger than a hare and you spot hare all the time while out stalking.

Here is a good comparison of there size compared to a fox

By the way lads thats me in the pic.....Just back from the pub raving about it...:D

Hibrion

The day I saw one, I actually thought it was a fox at first glance. When I looked throughout the scope, however, you could clearly see it was a muntjac. the head is unmistakable when you see it through the scope.

mcmoustache

From the wikipedia page:

Reeves's Muntjac has been introduced to England, with wild deer descended from escapees from Woburn Safari Park around 1925.[2] Muntjac have expanded very rapidly, and are now present in most English counties south of the M62 motorway and have also expanded their range into Wales. The British Deer Society coordinated a survey of wild deer in the UK between 2005 and 2007, and they reported that Muntjac deer had noticeably expanded their range since the previous census in 2000.[3] It is anticipated that Muntjac may soon become the most numerous species of deer in England and may have also crossed the border into Scotland with a couple of specimens appearing in Northern Ireland in 2009; they have been spotted in the republic of Ireland in 2010, almost certainly having reached there with some human assistance.

moby30

What part of the country do drink in dwighet:)

dwighet

moby30 wrote: »

What part of the country do drink in dwighet:)

Were ever I get a thirst up:cool:
A buddy of mine in Scotland says there are great Tucker..And tuff as nails to knock down..Mind you he only shoots a 243

Cass

rabbit assassin wrote: »

Is there any photographic proof that they are breeding here ?

Breeding? - I don't know. never seen a reliable photo of a mature animal let alone any offspring.

I've read articles of sightings of them all over the country but surely there'd be 1 or 2 shot by now?

Was there not 14 reported returns for the 2010 season? I rarely take photos of what i shoot, just not bothered with it, but i know if i shot one i'd have a photo of it.

Firstly Id like to know for a fact has anyone seen them and is there photographic proof?

See above.

Secondly , Are we not better off not shooting them for a year or three so they can re produce and spread or possibly catch some and release in a different area?

Absolutely not. IMO they are an invasive species and if allowed to breed and grow in numbers could cause serious damage to native/established species. As said before in other posts/threads they have an earlier reproduction cycle, continuous breeding season, live as long as other deer, and if left unchecked could become a more damaging species than mink, etc.

I hate people that think "Oh they have to be shot " the type of people that shoot 8 or 10 cocks on the first day of the pheasant season. :mad:

They have to be. Simple as. They are such a threat that the greens, when in power, and all the do-gooders realised it and we have the open season.

I cant stand people that are like this ! Conservation is key to the future of our sport !

It is, but not to introduced species that are a serious threat. From all studies and publications i've read they breed like rabbits (once established) and can cause more damage than our native or long established species of deer. Conservation is also knowing when a species has no "business" being allowed here. The release of them was an illegal act by some people thinking it would be great sport to hunt/stalk/shoot them with little to no thought about the long term consequences of what might happen if they get a foothold here. Thats not conservation.

Just like the way some lads shoot 3 or 4 deer on the first day of the season, just makes me so angry ! some people are just too trigger happy :mad::mad:

Personally it wouldn't be me. If i got one i'd be gone home, but each to their own i suspect. If a lad is legal, with licenses, and his own leases/permissions then nothing i say, whether i approve or not, is going to change their actions/views.

arrowloopboy

I saw 2 on the first in my wood in Wicklow,came to a cross roads and who did i meet other than Lord Lucan leading Shergar and two muntys threw over him ,scottish hill style.Promptly called the NPWS ,poaching Bastard.

dwighet

arrowloopboy wrote: »

I saw 2 on the first in my wood in Wicklow,came to a cross roads and who did i meet other than Lord Lucan leading Shergar and two muntys threw over him ,scottish hill style.Promptly called the NPWS ,poaching Bastard.

CLASS!!!!

Deerspotter

Ezridax wrote: »

Breeding? - I don't know. never seen a reliable photo of a mature animal let alone any offspring.



Was there not 14 reported returns for the 2010 season? I rarely take photos of what i shoot, just not bothered with it, but i know if i shot one i'd have a photo of it.

......

That pretty much sums it up! Good post. It saved me doing it this time, we have so many threads on this BS subject...

underthetumb

Deerspotter wrote: »

That pretty much sums it up! Good post. It saved me doing it this time, we have so many threads on this BS subject...

correct, i had a lad tell me one night in the local that the midlands was full of sika. i said you mean fallow, he said god no, feck all fallow in the midlands. this lad shoots a lot more deer than me.

Tackleberrywho

underthetumb wrote: »

correct, i had a lad tell me one night in the local that the midlands was full of sika. i said you mean fallow, he said god no, feck all fallow in the midlands. this lad shoots a lot more deer than me.

Any Sika in the Midlands is a Tourist

underthetumb

yeh on hols with a muntjac

lb1981

seen this fella when i was out trying to stalk Muntjac

Cass

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Careful, they're protected.:D

lb1981

Ezridax wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Careful, they're protected.:D

Yeah it is best off to lamp them from the jeep on the roadside (opens can of worms and runs)

Longranger

Come on now lads,we need to seriously think about this and stop all the messing. Honestly,I haven't heard such bullsh1t since my hunting trip to Antarctica with Michael Jackson,shooting greater spotted elepotomus with my trusty .17 nitro!

Cass

You're bad ........................ you're bad ................. ya know it ...... shamone.:D











i'll get my coat.

garv123

arrowloopboy wrote: »

I saw 2 on the first in my wood in Wicklow,came to a cross roads and who did i meet other than Lord Lucan leading Shergar and two muntys threw over him ,scottish hill style.Promptly called the NPWS ,poaching Bastard.

Did you think of taking a picture of the 2 dead animals since they are so rare and all and people looking for proof of them?

Or surely when the npws came they took some pictures of them?

Cass

Erm................ garv .............. on the off chance that you could be "missing the moral" have a look at these a little closer;

the midlands was full of sika

my hunting trip to Antarctica with Michael Jackson,shooting greater spotted elepotomus

Lord Lucan leading Shergar

garv123

note to self :refresh a page thats open with ages to check for replies. :cool::cool:
and read posts properly :rolleyes:

Longranger

garv123 wrote: »

note to self :refresh a page thats open with ages to check for replies. :cool::cool:
and read posts properly :rolleyes:

LEGEND!

lordarpad

Hibrion wrote: »

The whole Muntjac thing has been covered a lot, lads. Quite a few people have seen them, including myself. They all seem to be in Wicklow too. Most people don't take cameras shooting with them. Even if they did, there are few of us that would have a lens that will take a shot as clear as you will see through a good quality scope like a S&B.

They are listed as an invasive species and can be shot. So, if you see one and it is in season treat it like any other deer. That's what I'll do if I ever see another anyway. If I do happen to bag one, I'll be more than happy to take a picture of it before it goes into a stew.

Muntjacs are in season all year round.

Hibrion

Although they should be in season all year round, they are not. If you look on any deer license you will see the dates. I believe you can shoot them all year round in England.

Cass

Hibrion wrote: »

Although they should be in season all year round, they are not. If you look on any deer license you will see the dates..

Look closer.

Muntjac - 1st September 2011 to 31 August 2012.


Your license remains in effect until your new one is issued next year. Although most deer are not in season all year the muntjac are and until the new license takes effect on 1st September 2012 your current license (for 2011) will suffice.

Hibrion

I stand, happily, corrected. I didn't really look closely at this year's license and was going by last year's. It's good to see someone making an informed decision and changing these dates!

Cass

Hibrion wrote: »

I didn't really look closely at this year's license and was going by last year's.!

Its been this way from 2009. Or more specifically 2009/2010 license was the first i got with muntjac listed on them.

Hibrion

Ezridax wrote: »

Its been this way from 2009.

Haha! Guess I didn't look at last year's one too closely either so.

Cass

To be honest i think they should "de-classified" and called vermin. If they are this big threat they treat them as such.

As it stands it can be shot all year round but only under license and with a deer legal rifle.

just my own opinion.

Hibrion

I'm inclined to agree with you, Ezri. I know in Britain they can be shot with smaller calibers. A .223 with the right round would be ample for the job, in my opinion.

Cass

I won't get into a "humane" debate as its not permitted, but realistically they are no bigger than a fox and a .204/.223, etc can take them down nicely.

Grizzly 45

.22 hornet or even or 000 buck is plenty gun for them.

Hibrion

A 22-250 would be a lovely rifle to use. If we had a decent population of muntjac I imagine there might not be so many collecting dust in dealer's gun rooms.

Cass

Correct and right.

If lads knew they could have access to deer meat, without having to get deer rifles, licenses, etc it could see an increase in smaller caliber rifles (the whole .22 C/F family) being sold. Plus, and this is a HUGE MAYBE, because i don't believe they are as prevelant as people say, it could see a reduction (however small) in poaching. Maybe? Whadaya think?

Hibrion

I think you might be right. Anything that gets rid of poachers is a good idea in my book.

DubPredator

http://invasivespeciesireland.com/species-alerts/muntjac-deer/

seems to have good info on them so far in ireland

DubPredator

http://invasives.biodiversityireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/All-Muntjac-Aug_2011.jpg

like to hunt

will they do that much damage.. or just easyer to say they will...
what is there main diet??

stopping the pouching wud be better time spent..
of catch them.. block them in when in the woods..

alot of talk and no action..
cant get away on flats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

clivej

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azcHHPr5tGs

Tackleberrywho

It took David Dunne!

At least we know that there is one less now

garv123

ah jesus. a deer caliber rifle? You'd knock one of them with a .22mag or hmr easier than a fox.