Round 13 - Italian Grand Prix

audi a4 2008

so it looks like vettel is going to be champion again.back to back one at that.are we seening a great driver and the start of great things for him.
or is he just a good driver in a very fast car.also i think red bull favours him because he came true there program from youth.

for me when he starts pole he has it in the bag as u cannot catch him.ive said this before when he dosent start from pole,he tends to get very fustrated and makes mistakes.

any one feel the same ??or am i alone in this one

Myrddin

I have to hand it to Vettel today. I'll openly admit I've been sceptical of his overtaking abilities previously, & to me there's a difference between a pass & an overtake so the likes of the move on Rosberg at Spa doesn't really count.

But didn't he answer the critics today :cool: Wheel to wheel with Alonso, which is normally how you'll have to get past Alonso if you want to. Didn't flinch, total commitment, just a brilliant drive from him all round.

I think even since last season, he's really matured in terms of racecraft. There's very little doubt in my mind he's now a double world champion, & assuming Red Bull & Newey continue their partnership...I can see him being a very, very tough man to catch for the forseable future.

sham69

Really enjoyed the race.
Vetted well deserved the victory.
I thought button drove a great race, getting the better of hamilton past few races.
As for the Schumacher incident I think there was a bit much made of it.
If it was schumi fighting against petrov or someone else there would be nothing made of it, the fact that it was the Lewis Hamilton show, BBC stayed with the action for ages.
Brundle and coulthard are getting tedious with their constant bashing of schumi.
DC then decided to be race director, quoting the rules etc, I thought it was a bit OTT.
Hamilton acted like a spoilt child in his interview with Lee mac kenzie.
I have nothing personal against Hamilton, maybe it's BBC constantly talking him up, Lewis this , Lewis that.
He is no angel when it comes to the rules and was the cause of his own accident last race with kobayashi, when the dc and brundle show said it was not his fault.
I like brundle but since DC has joined the ranks they are like 2 school kids picking on schumi and it's really obvious.
That said, good race and some good action, the double DRS wasn't as exciting as I'd hoped it would be.

amacachi

I think they've missed a trick with the DRS so far this season in having it on the second half of straights and into corners. Having it on the first half of the main straight today would mean an earlier advantage and should put cars almost side-by-side but still with a long run for the leading car to defend.

GTE

Great drive by Vettel, Button and Schumacher.

With regards to MSC vs HAM I think far far too much was made about the grass incident. He was far ahead enough for HAM to realise it was an ever closing gap. Reminds me of the Canada BUT vs HAM crash. Vettel and Alonso was worse and that was talked about in such jest, especially by the drivers.

Really annoyed at Coulthard, quoting the rules was over the top. I got the sense he was really trying to make a point of something that was really very minor. I just got a sense of the BBC backing the British driver when they talked about that.

I was also annoyed at him after the race when he said it was disappointing how we were discussing how MSC was driving negatively and not about how great his race was. IMO, his race was great and a lot of that is because he is the aggressive driver he can be. The reason "we" were discussing it was that there are three pundits on the TV and two decided to not shut up about it
MSC did push it as he did make two moves on a couple of occasions which I think was wrong but EJ was on the button when he said that is why we love to see him back racing, and in such good form with a car that did fairly well today.

Whitmarsh is also becoming one of the more annoying people over the past few weeks. It is like he is trying to be subtle but hes very bad at it.

Great race though. Higher impression of Button and an overall lower impression of McLaren besides him. I was very surprised with how MSC could power by HAM with the DRS when they were close enough. The Mercedes speed was great. Senna did well. Torro Rosso did too.
Classic!

ratedR

Really enjoyed this one. Plenty of battles. Hamilton v Schumacher was great. Sch probably over-defended slightly, as was confirmed by Ross Brawn having a few words in his ear, but it wasn't ott and made for great viewing.

Button is really emerging as the stronger driver in that team at the moment, and Hamilton just didn't look interested in the post race interview. I think he's just annoyed that he'll have to go another year without a title, when he could easily have 3 or 4 now. His moral is definitely down.

BBC coverage was top, and the forum was one of the best of the year.

MudSkipper

I was shouting at the telly for coulTART to shut the fuck up. He was bearable as a pundit on the forum, but really grates on me now he's doing the commentary. *grabs rule book* WTF muppet!

BTW Excellent drives by schumi and button

Myrddin

bbk wrote: »

Really annoyed at Coulthard, quoting the rules was over the top. I got the sense he was really trying to make a point of something that was really very minor. I just got a sense of the BBC backing the British driver when they talked about that.

Textbook Coulthard really, the man is like a spoiled child. However, I'd wager it wasn't because it was a British driver scenario...it was purely an oppurtunity to have another dig at the man who outshone him all through his career.

Grow up David, Michael Schumacher is & always will be in a different class to you. Let it go.

Ghost Train

I don't know, their always going to be focusing a bit more on the english drivers. Quoting the rules... maybe because the rules were altered a bit this year it's not a bad thing. Then Ross Brawn comes on the radio and gives instruction to Michael about leaving space, to be honest thought the commentary was pretty good, weren't calling for drive thrus just discussing it, few minor mistakes, taking a while to pick up on Hamilton reaching his rev limit etc. Not a fan of Coultard but still better than what we had last year

World feed was focusing on Schumacher and Hamilton so don't think it's the BBC fault that thats where to focus was.

Would be great if the five live commentary was an option on BBC HD

GaryMunster

I never used to get annoyed at Brundle or Coultard but they are getting reeaaalllyy annoying giving out about one of the greatest drivers of all time, Schuey. The stewards didn't penalize him so why should the commentators, Just cos hamilton is British. Annoyed but what a great race!

Myrddin

Ghost Train wrote: »

I don't know, their always going to be focusing a bit more on the english drivers. Quoting the rules... maybe because the rules were altered a bit this year it's not a bad thing. Then Ross Brawn comes on the radio and gives instruction to Michael about leaving space, to be honest thought the commentary was pretty good, weren't calling for drive thrus just discussing it, few minor mistakes, taking a while to pick up on Hamilton reaching his rev limit etc. Not a fan of Coultard but still better than what we had last year

World feed was focusing on Schumacher and Hamilton so don't think it's the BBC fault that thats where to focus was.

Would be great if the five live commentary was an option on BBC HD

I thought Coulthard was doing his absolute best to make something more out of it than what it was tbh. "Quite clearly a violation" etc etc. When you actually listen & observe his commentary (which I've more or less stopped doing), it's absolutely pathetic what he picks up on regards Schumacher. The slightest possibility of a dig & he'll grab it...quite often laughing at his own jokes while at it.

I'll be shot down for this I know I will, but hearing Legard on Classic F1 would make me choose him over Coulthard. Every single time. Granted he fumbled through much of it, but he gave the commentary box a sense of theatre & passion which is sorely lacking now. Couthards monotone deliveries, his forced enthusiasm, & tbh complete lack of wit is a killer.

5Live all the way (though I do like Brundle). Chandok & Crofty this weekend. Wit, comedy, banther, technical expertise but delivered in a non white board way, enthusiasm & no bias :cool:

stevemc01

I dont mind Brundle and Coulthard too much, but what they need to do is just call it even accross the board. The Schumi bating was hard to listen to yesterday in comparaison with everyone of the bbc's team sitting on the fence 2 weeks ago in the Kobayashi/Hamilton incident.

If they comment so strongly on Schumachers actions yesterday they have to have the balls to come straight out and say that Hamilton drove Kobayashi off the road.

On yesterdays race, great drives by Vettel, Schumi and Button (who seems to be getting the upperhand on Hamilton big time at the moment). I also thought Senna had a good weekend both in qualifying and the race.

Voodu Child

Schumacher took his defensive driving right to the edge of the rules, which is what a good racer should do.

Hamilton doesnt know how to do this, he is either within the rules or else he's weaving all over the place and crashing into people.

He just doesnt have the understanding or subtlety to go right on the edge of the rules without getting a penalty like Schumi. That's why he was throwing the toys out of the pram yesterday.

StephenHendry

great drive yesterday from schumi, great starts as well which sometimes back in his ferrari days he struggled with his starts. the battle with hamilton with michael displaying great defensive driving and some good overtakes early in the race, its a shame the mercedes is a bit away from ferrari, mclaren, redbull

GTE

LIGHTNING wrote: »

What I love about Schumacher vs Hamiltion is that he wont give an inch. Lewis is so used to people just getting out of his way, Schumacher wont do that for anybody.

Would I going in the right direction saying that with Alonso not in the best car in the past few years and MSC gone for as long as he was that the only aggression in F1 was Hamilton? I didnt watch F1 when he won it as BBC didnt get coverage however I get the sense that Hamilton is getting a taste of his own medicine and not liking it.

Again, I have to say the two moves thing was bad on MSC's part.

GTE

Ghost Train wrote: »

World feed was focusing on Schumacher and Hamilton so don't think it's the BBC fault that thats where to focus was.

Would be great if the five live commentary was an option on BBC HD

Yes, I think it was said here that the BBC was focusing on it during the race but that is the world feed.

My issue with the BBC part of it was after the race. The way they went on about it was overly negative.

It was fantastic to see though. Button showed Hamilton how it was meant to be done and, allegedly, it could only take MSC hitting the limited during a conversation to let Hamilton past.

Enjoyed yesterdays race more than i was expecting, great pass by Vettel at the start. A bit much was made of the Hamilton V Shumacher events by the BBC commentators alright, although I do think Shumacher showed very poor sportsmanship, nothing new there. Great drive again by Button, he was lucky enough to escape a hit from the tail of Rosberg in the first corner smash up. Thumbs up to Alguersuari also

cocalolaman

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Whats worse is that they really hate giving Schumacher Kudos when he does well. His starts are awesome lately and he seems to got his race craft back to where it used to be

Sorry but I specifically remember Brundle saying that schumi has had sensational starts all season, or something along those lines. I dont think they're bashing schumi as much as everyone else is saying, but I agree that it's becoming the lewis hamilton show. ( IMO every gp is called the 'santanter grand prix of Sebastian Vettel', cos he keeps winning.:p)

EDIT: I think it's clear Brundle has great respect for Schumi for what he's achieved...DC on the other hand..

rua1972

I liked the race, it's clear now who is going to win the championships. So in that sense the excitment is gone, like last year with four possible winners in the last race.
I loved it when Button went past hamilton and Schumacher. While hamilton was stuck behind Schumacher for a long time. With all the talk about Vettels gearratios i was surprised to see him flying away after he overtook Alonso.
I hoped for a bit closer racing at te front.
Here is Brundles take on schumacher and the race http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/14883755.stm

Myrddin

Deleted User wrote: »

I do think Shumacher showed very poor sportsmanship, nothing new there.

Maybe it's 'coz he's black! Actually, wait no thats not right...

cocalolaman wrote: »

Sorry but I specifically remember Brundle saying that schumi has had sensational starts all season, or something along those lines. I dont think they're bashing schumi as much as everyone else is saying, but I agree that it's becoming the lewis hamilton show. ( IMO every gp is called the 'santanter grand prix of Sebastian Vettel', cos he keeps winning.:p)

EDIT: I think it's clear Brundle has great respect for Schumi for what he's achieved...DC on the other hand..

In fairness the above is true. Brundle can quite often take Couldthards negative optimism towards Schumacher & either neutralise it or put a positive spin on it.

the culture of deference

Ghost Train wrote: »

Yep, but where Michael took the racing line and pushed Hamilton on to grass could be seen as "deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track"

No way. MS was ahead, LH was never going to get through there, he was testing MS.

bnt wrote: »

Yeah, I suspect someone at FIA had a word with Ross Brawn, and then we heard Brawn getting on to Schumacher about space at least twice. Kept the action going, rather than spoiling it with a drive-through penalty.

Defo. The 2nd ross Brawn message was code for Micheal give LH the place and you will not get a penalty.

LIGHTNING wrote: »

What I love about Schumacher vs Hamiltion is that he wont give an inch. Lewis is so used to people just getting out of his way, Schumacher wont do that for anybody.

This was the 1st time LH has had a real battle with MS, after years of listening to how hard MS was to race against. That was a masterclass in defence. I am sure LH will now understand what MS is made of, and probably will look back on the race with some fondness someday.

Deleted User wrote: »

Enjoyed yesterdays race more than i was expecting, great pass by Vettel at the start. A bit much was made of the Hamilton V Shumacher events by the BBC commentators alright, although I do think Shumacher showed very poor sportsmanship, nothing new there. Great drive again by Button, he was lucky enough to escape a hit from the tail of Rosberg in the first corner smash up. Thumbs up to Alguersuari also

MS did nothing wrong. That was vintage racing and a pleasure to watch.


Well done MS. Any doubts about his decision to return should now be forgotten. He was flawless.

Ms and NR are now 6-7 in race comparison this year.

4 points between them.

Surely a podium soon, and who knows what else.

Maybe so but I think he pushed it a bit too far once or twice . Although I'm not MS his biggest fan he is having a great start to the latter part of the season, cr due. I think though that it would
have made for a more interesting race for the top places had LH got past him a bit earlier...

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

I was at monza for the weekend, great race! I was at turn 1, where most of the action was, would defo go back. the battle between schumacher and hamilton was fantastic. I knew louis would get by in the end, but i couldn't believe michael was able to hold him off for over 20 laps.

Seannew1

Great race,I'm usually not the biggest fan of the Italian grand prix but great stuff this year.Schumacher/Hamilton battle was super,Button showed up Hamilton big time on how to overtake!!

the culture of deference

Seannew1 wrote: »

Great race,I'm usually not the biggest fan of the Italian grand prix but great stuff this year.Schumacher/Hamilton battle was super,Button showed up Hamilton big time on how to overtake!!

Did you see Button on the forum.

I just closed my eyes

I didn't know if he was there

MS had to lift off, and take all of the the kerb.

JB you really are a superb driver.

deafroadrunner

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/8758501/Italian-Grand-Prix-2011-Article-20.2-fails-to-keep-Michael-Schumacher-on-the-straight-and-narrow.html

amazing how much crap DC talks about the rules he clearly has forgotten about about spa 98 when he purposely made schui slam into the back of him in the wet.

and brundle is no better. i wouldn't advise them two to go asking schui for an interview anytime soon haha

Myrddin

deafroadrunner wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/8758501/Italian-Grand-Prix-2011-Article-20.2-fails-to-keep-Michael-Schumacher-on-the-straight-and-narrow.html

amazing how much crap DC talks about the rules he clearly has forgotten about about spa 98 when he purposely made schui slam into the back of him in the wet.

and brundle is no better. i wouldn't advise them two to go asking schui for an interview anytime soon haha

His bitterness at MS never fails to amaze, this thing has been blown completely out of proportion.

Grow up DC, or if you must dwell on the past...write an article about this maybe.

thegoth

Wasnt it this race that DC got the record of having four crashes in a race. From memory, one at the first start, broken front wing, another crash I dont recall the details of, and the final crash which, by his own admission in his book, was his fault as he lifted in torrential rain on a straight on the racing line !!!

The only mystery surrounding DC is how he managed to remain in formula 1 for so long. Actually, I suspect it was because McLaren wanted a decent number 2 driver to backup their main drivers, instead of running two top level drivers