Round 13 - Italian Grand Prix

frostie500

I'm probably not going to get a preview done for Monza, I'm pretty busy this week.

Main points as far as I'm concerned are that McLaren and Ferrari will start as favourites but Red Bull showed at Spa that they can win on low downforce circuits. I cant see them winning this weekend but they will be close to the front as per usual, this could however be the race where their pole position run ends!

Mercedes looked very strong in a straight line at Spa and if Schumacher and Rosberg can qualify in the top ten they could be dangerous and be a spanner in the works this weekend.

As far as strategy goes I cant this being any more than two stops as far as ideal strategy because Monza isnt very harsh on tyres. With two DRS zones it will be interesting to see how teams approach the weekend and if someone takes the risk of a three stop strategy to stay on the option tyres for as long as possible. We saw Vettel stop on the penultimate lap last year and such a strategy could be employed by someone this weekend.

Should be a good race!

johnnysmack

How is DRS gonna work here? The wings they normally run here are so thin as it is i cant see them having room to be opened.

Unless they run a little extra wing to get extra downforce in corners and DRS the straights.

frostie500

johnnysmack wrote: »

How is DRS gonna work here? The wings they normally run here are so thin as it is i cant see them having room to be opened.

Unless they run a little extra wing to get extra downforce in corners and DRS the straights.

The zones are on the main straight and into Ascari. This leaves two straights, into the della Roggia and into Parabollica, where cars with a higher level of downforce could be penalised and vulnerable to being overtaken. Even so the fact that there are two DRS zones in the race will see a lot of potential for overtaking and getting back ahead of the car that just overtook you. Qualifying will trump it all and teams will run a higher wing setting than normal at Monza, probably similar to the level Button ran last year, so that they can qualify at the front and then try and defend where they are hamstrung by the wing settings.

Charlie-Bravo

@Frostie: my thanks is for starting the thread! D- for effort for this race. Just messing - Never been a big fan of the Monza races however the DRS zones are going to add extra excitment. Definitely see Merc causing a headache being able to run good striaght line speed, keeping opposition behind while taking positions on any cars ahead. Odds for Rosberg 33/1, with Schuey at 66/1, perhaps do Schuey on a place or each way bet?!! This is on Paddy Power

decisions

astrofluff wrote: »

@Frostie: my thanks is for starting the thread! D- for effort for this race. Just messing - Never been a big fan of the Monza races however the DRS zones are going to add extra excitment. Definitely see Merc causing a headache being able to run good striaght line speed, keeping opposition behind while taking positions on any cars ahead. Odds for Rosberg 33/1, with Schuey at 66/1, perhaps do Schuey on a place or each way bet?!! This is on Paddy Power

Thats a bet id be willing to take

bamboozling

astrofluff wrote: »

@Frostie: my thanks is for starting the thread! D- for effort for this race. Just messing - Never been a big fan of the Monza races however the DRS zones are going to add extra excitment. Definitely see Merc causing a headache being able to run good striaght line speed, keeping opposition behind while taking positions on any cars ahead. Odds for Rosberg 33/1, with Schuey at 66/1, perhaps do Schuey on a place or each way bet?!! This is on Paddy Power

Good shout. Shop around though for value. For example Rosberg is 66/1 with Boylesports compared to 33/1 with Paddy Power. Schumacher is 66 in most places but 100/1 in Sporting Bet.

Oddschecker is a godsend for this kind of stuff.

amacachi

astrofluff wrote: »

@Frostie: my thanks is for starting the thread! D- for effort for this race. Just messing - Never been a big fan of the Monza races however the DRS zones are going to add extra excitment. Definitely see Merc causing a headache being able to run good striaght line speed, keeping opposition behind while taking positions on any cars ahead. Odds for Rosberg 33/1, with Schuey at 66/1, perhaps do Schuey on a place or each way bet?!! This is on Paddy Power

Already threw a few quicker on Schumi hoping to get in before the rush but for some reason there was no rush. Mercedes should be able to fit a wing as big as at Spa and their top speed would still be better than anyone else. That even before DRS.

amacachi

LIGHTNING wrote: »

The Mercedes looks tidy, Schumacher could do well in Qualifing tomorrow. That said I have just put a jinx on him now :pac:

50/1...

frostie500

Good performance from Schumi...not sure I'd be running the bookies though! He looked a lot better today, he is actually starting to look like the old aggressive Schumi. For most of his time since returning its seemed that he has "floated" from apex to apex but he is now starting to look like he is really pressing the front end into corners. He is much more aggressive with the car and actually looks like he is throwing it into the corners, he was pretty impressive into Parabolica today. Hopefully he can keep this momentum going into the weekend!

the culture of deference

frostie500 wrote: »

Good performance from Schumi...not sure I'd be running the bookies though! He looked a lot better today, he is actually starting to look like the old aggressive Schumi. For most of his time since returning its seemed that he has "floated" from apex to apex but he is now starting to look like he is really pressing the front end into corners. He is much more aggressive with the car and actually looks like he is throwing it into the corners, he was pretty impressive into Parabolica today. Hopefully he can keep this momentum going into the weekend!

That is what made MS so much faster.
I remember Damon Hill following him in a race and commenting after that he thought on every corner that MS was about to go off.

I have watched him for 20 years and I think a podium on sunday would be deserved. Lets see how qually goes. I say p6 or p7 in qually maybe better on sunday. Nico may outqual him but when it comes to the race MS will finish higher. Its 7-5 in race comparison now to Nico.

I think Vettel or Hamilton will win, SV is in his own championship, and the negative comments he gets are not deserved, maybe an MW podium if he can start, unless ferrari have some trick up their sleeves (they seem to find it at Monza), I am very impressed with Button this year, he really has matured into always thinking Prost way of driving. Petrov and Senna will be interesting to watch too.

A quick question to the racers here, have you ever driven an F1 car, if so what is the start procedure like from a personal point of view. Is MW fcuking up or just unlucky.

amacachi

Haven't been in an F1 car (don't think anyone on here has) but generally he just keeps fcuking up with low revs or else he gets a slow-ish start then spins the wheels for ages.

Just watchin Friday highlights, place looks empty?!

Myrddin

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I have been in a couple of older F1 cars and one modern one (Alonso`s Renault). The start procedure is so difficult and it depends on a huge number of factors. Its not like a road car when you bring it to 5/6k and just dump the clutch.

You have two clutches on the back of the F1 steering wheel. You start by slowly releasing the first one while releasing the second one. Too much revs and you go nowhere too little and the anti-stall kicks in. However there are a whole heap of other factors (diff/gearbox) settings that will effect your start.

For instance at my last race I couldn't get the car off the grid, both times doing a Mark Webber and ruining my decent qualifying performance. It was highly frustrating.

Richard Hammond?

the culture of deference

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I have been in a couple of older F1 cars and one modern one (Alonso`s Renault). The start procedure is so difficult and it depends on a huge number of factors. Its not like a road car when you bring it to 5/6k and just dump the clutch.

You have two clutches on the back of the F1 steering wheel. You start by slowly releasing the first one while releasing the second one. Too much revs and you go nowhere too little and the anti-stall kicks in. However there are a whole heap of other factors (diff/gearbox) settings that will effect your start.

For instance at my last race I couldn't get the car off the grid, both times doing a Mark Webber and ruining my decent qualifying performance. It was highly frustrating.

Great stuff, do they need 2 clutches for the take off torque, how did you manage the grip tyres and downforce, what track were you on.

I think I have met you in mondello for the clubman, I fancy doing the intermediate soon. Last time I was there you had the rovers.

amacachi

He may not be going well today time-wise but I could watch Kobayashi driving around all day. :pac:

amacachi

Why did Button pit? Had 2nd in the bag. Didn't notice a mistake in Parabolica.

Looks like Hamilton screwed up laps for a few people.:rolleyes:

lord lucan

Gotta hand it to Vettel,amazing to watch him do it when it really matters.

Grim.

lord lucan wrote: »

Gotta hand it to Vettel,amazing to watch him do it when it really matters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mkkeUKcSJs

Myrddin

Grim. wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mkkeUKcSJs

He demolished them today, very impressive stuff from him indeed. I wouldn't be a Vettel fan, but he doesn't deserve any negative attention either. The races are there to be won...it's not his fault nobody can catch him.

Yes the races are predictable, normally decided on Saturdays, & there was no title race to begin with this year, but surely thats the fault of McLaren, Ferrari & Mercedes...& Vettel has nothing to anser for in my books.

Alonso has seemed asleep this season, Massa's mojo is still missing, Hamilton is his own worst enemy, Webber needs a psychiatrist after the mental pummeling he got last year, Button is the forgotten driver, Schumacher & Rosberg are sorely let down by their cars...terrible season compared to last year I think. To think it went down to the last race, with a possible four drivers to win it...awesome stuff.

cocalolaman

EnterNow wrote: »

Button is the forgotten driver,terrible season compared to last year I think. To think it went down to the last race, with a possible four drivers to win it...awesome stuff.

Nobody's gonna forget Canada any time soon, in all fairness. I dont really see how he's 'forgotten'. But yeah this season is pretty rubbish, it's no fault of his own but Vettel is making it boring(or maybe everyone else is making it boring for not catching him:p, the 'more overtaking' this year is mostly down to the DRS which is TOO good, they get past and then there's no fight to be had.The drivers and constructors championship's are alreeady finished (lets face it), and he's still romping away.

Myrddin

cocalolaman wrote: »

Nobody's gonna forget Canada any time soon, in all fairness. I dont really see how he's 'forgotten'. But yeah this season is pretty rubbish, it's no fault of his own but Vettel is making it boring(or maybe everyone else is making it boring for not catching him:p, the 'more overtaking' this year is mostly down to the DRS which is TOO good, they get past and then there's no fight to be had.The drivers and constructors championship's are alreeady finished (lets face it), and he's still romping away.

I meant that in regards to McLaren...it seems to be Hamilton this Hamilton that...Button shines brightly, but only until the next race in a lot of peoples eyes. I rate him very highly, very balanced, & I like his approach. But Hamilton has this magnetic, superstardom thing going on which zaps all the limelight. So purely in that context, is what I meant by forgotten.

losthorizon

On a different note our very own Derek Daly is one of the Stewards for the race. His son Conor had a great GP3 race today although he races under an american flag.

mickdw

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I have been in a couple of older F1 cars and one modern one (Alonso`s Renault). The start procedure is so difficult and it depends on a huge number of factors. Its not like a road car when you bring it to 5/6k and just dump the clutch.

You have two clutches on the back of the F1 steering wheel. You start by slowly releasing the first one while releasing the second one. Too much revs and you go nowhere too little and the anti-stall kicks in. However there are a whole heap of other factors (diff/gearbox) settings that will effect your start.

For instance at my last race I couldn't get the car off the grid, both times doing a Mark Webber and ruining my decent qualifying performance. It was highly frustrating.

Where did you get the opportunity to race with a modern F1 car?

mickdw

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Never raced it I`m afraid, had a good poke around the car and a chat with one of the tech guys. I`d give a organ or two to race one.

Its just the way you said that you failed to get the car off the line, I thought you were still talking about F1.
I was going to ask if you had won the euro millions? and even then, it would still be pretty impossible to get ones hands on a modern F1 with anything close to original engine/transmission.

amacachi

There's a chance that the DRS and KERS will make this race closer than it otherwise would be rather than just making overtaking a bit easier. Looking forward to seeing how it goes but I really wish it was Button in second as he should've been.

cherryghost

Looking forward to a nice first corner crash. Some drivers will be reluctant to damage their cars over the bumps so they might just crash into someone else instead :P

amacachi

If they don't take Vettel out this time they're never gonna feckin do it. :pac:

blackdog2

I have never seen anyone so calm and cool as Button, He had to pull Brundle back on the gridwalk for a longer chat!

Ghost Train

Will be interesting to see how the various engines do in the race

Nice to see the 2 on board qualifying laps compared on bbc

amacachi

Expecting issues at the start at the front here for some reason.

Cool_CM

Safety car

lord lucan

Cracking start!!

Feckin' safety car!

Grim.

gwan schumi

amacachi

Awful start for Button but look at Schumi! Unbelievable stuff!


Thought Hamilton and Vettel had their wheels locked for a bit, will need to see a replay obviously though.

Cool_CM

Rubens looks like he's beached himself on the kerb

Ghost Train

was watching the on board with Rosberg waiting for him to be taken out

RayM

To be fair to Hispania, that's the first time one of their cars has ever been in the top ten...

lord lucan

Hamilton caught in 2 minds,cover off Alonso or cover off Vettel. In the end he got squeezed out.

Schumi the legend,brilliant start. I blame Brundle for jinxing the race by saying safety cars are rare at Monza!

Cool_CM

Does anybody ever expect something not to happen at the first corner at Monza?
SC in this lap

amacachi

Possible points for Lotus today.


Fancy Vettel on the restart.

amacachi

Hamilton looked like he had to hand that spot to Schumi.

lord lucan

Gwan Schumi! Great stuff.:)

lord lucan

Brave driving from Vettel.

Cool_CM

This is fuping great so far!

amacachi

Great race so far!

Grim.

dear oh dear mark wtf are you at

lord lucan

Jaysus this is brilliant!

Cool_CM

Webber out

bnt

Whoops - Webber didn't make it back to the pits for a new nose. Strewth!

amacachi

Fantastic driving all round here. Just a pity they've let Vettel get clear.

Dcully

Jesus Christ Vettel so so brave then,what a move.
The guy gets better and better.
Schumi going well.