Hidden camera show displays the double standard regarding physical violence

Delirium

An American hidden camera show ran two scenarios, the first was a man being physically threatening/abusive to a woman, and the second had the roles reversed with the woman being the abusive one.

There was one reaction to the second scenario I was surprised with where a woman is almost celebrating the man getting abuse from the woman.

But the overriding attitude seemed to be that the guy deserved it, even though no-one obviously knows anything about him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks

FetchTheGin

They should have done scenario 3, say the man in scenario 2 defends himself against the abusive woman.

Needless to say it doesn't surprise me.

LeeHoffmann

Unfortunately I can't view videos in work but would be interested to see (literally) the difference. These hidden camera shows are great as they at last provide support for anecdotal evidence (which is often just dismissed out of hand). Were you really surprised about that reaction from the woman? I would be too but I'm sure I've heard numerous men on boards saying that they've seen that kind of thing. I feel this kind of social attitude stems from that 'man strong, woman weak' stereotype again

They should have done scenario 3, say the man in scenario 2 defends himself against the abusive woman.

Actually that's a great idea. Would have been really interesting!

darklighter

The cop in the video articulated what I would imagine is the majority's POV: if the guy was the aggressor, you would intervene in some manner (whether physically, verbally or by calling the cops). The prevailing attitude in society would be that the guy is able to look after himself.

Personally, I've said something a couple of times when i've seen a guy abusing a woman in public but whenever i've seen a girl hitting a guy, did nothing. Now that I think about it, that isnt right.

LeeHoffmann

Personally, I've said something a couple of times when i've seen a guy abusing a woman in public but whenever i've seen a girl hitting a guy, did nothing. Now that I think about it, that isnt right.

You've seen guys hitting women in public?

paulmclaughlin

This is the problem. If people see a woman attacking a man, they think he should be able to look after himself. As soon they see him defending himself, he is abusing the woman. There is a no-win scenario.

darklighter

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

You've seen guys hitting women in public?

Yip, after a night out on more than 1 occasion. Stepped in a couple of times and called the cops another time when I wouldve been killed if i said anything.

Used to work in retail and you'd see men giving women serious verbal abuse in the aisles. Had to throw more than a few out

Sky King

On two seperate occasions a mate of mine stepped in to stop a guy beating the sh!t out of his girlfriend in the street.

The first time both parties turned on him and told him to keep out of it, the second, the guy pulled a knife on him and chase him down the street to his girlfriend's indifference.

Moral of the story?

I dunno if there is one but they can kill each other if they like, so long as it doesn't affect me.

senordingdong

Sky King wrote: »

On two seperate occasions a mate of mine stepped in to stop a guy beating the sh!t out of his girlfriend in the street.

The first time both parties turned on him and told him

Happened to me once too....have to wonder about this race sometimes.

LeeHoffmann

I rarely see people hit each other but then I may be a little ditsy. I've been attacked on the street once by a drunk 'lady'.
You do see a good bit of verbal abuse (both ways) going on but I would never get involved in that. Why did you get involved? (not saying you shouldn't have!). Is there a difference between shouting abuse and speaking it?

In Cardiff at the HC final this year, a drunk couple were sitting at the table next to me in a chippers (classy I know). Anyway, his voice was even and quiet but his words were pure venom - "you're useless...useless...useless...you are of no use....useless''. Then he went on to 'worth' (you're worthless etc). I could go on but it was more of the same kind of thing. He wasn't kidding either. She never said a single word back - just kept eating her chips. :pac: I was in bits laughing - just the shock of how somebody could treat their partner like that! :eek:

iptba

koth wrote: »

But the overriding attitude seemed to be that the guy deserved it, even though no-one obviously knows anything about him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks

Remember the story* about a well-known US golfer and the crashed car in their drive-way. Imagine if the situations had been reversed, would people have said she "deserved" to be attacked like that whatever she had done in the relationship.

* let's call it that - all we can go on is the story - that's what people reacted to whether we know whether it is 100% true or not

darklighter

Sky King wrote: »

On two seperate occasions a mate of mine stepped in to stop a guy beating the sh!t out of his girlfriend in the street.

The first time both parties turned on him and told him to keep out of it, the second, the guy pulled a knife on him and chase him down the street to his girlfriend's indifference.

Moral of the story?

I dunno if there is one but they can kill each other if they like, so long as it doesn't affect me.

This is why I called the cops on one occasion. Knew the fella involved was a scrote

irishh_bob

paulmclaughlin wrote: »

This is the problem. If people see a woman attacking a man, they think he should be able to look after himself. As soon they see him defending himself, he is abusing the woman. There is a no-win scenario.

thats why no man should ever place himself in a situation where he has to answer to a woman , workplace female boss etc

py2006

Double standards in general annoy the hell out of me! Double standards between the sexes absolutely infuriate me! Especially scenarios such as this.

iptba

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

I rarely see people hit each other but then I may be a little ditsy. I've been attacked on the street once by a drunk 'lady'.
You do see a good bit of verbal abuse (both ways) going on but I would never get involved in that. Why did you get involved? (not saying you shouldn't have!). Is there a difference between shouting abuse and speaking it?

In Cardiff at the HC final this year, a drunk couple were sitting at the table next to me in a chippers (classy I know). Anyway, his voice was even and quiet but his words were pure venom - "you're useless...useless...useless...you are of no use....useless''. Then he went on to 'worth' (you're worthless etc). I could go on but it was more of the same kind of thing. He wasn't kidding either. She never said a single word back - just kept eating her chips. :pac: I was in bits laughing - just the shock of how somebody could treat their partner like that! :eek:

Yes, it is shocking. But I think most people if they reflected on it, would not think that generally only husbands/male partners would belittle their wifes/their female partners with words i.e. the reverse would also make a good percentage of the total number of cases. Yet, "emotional abuse" (from words) is on the spectrum of domestic violence which tends to be seen as man doing it to woman problem.

LeeHoffmann

thats why no man should ever place himself in a situation where he has to answer to a woman , workplace female boss etc

yes, because that poses no problems at all :rolleyes:
Maybe people should continue to fight for equal rights on all sides, rather than men refusing to work for female bosses

Yes, it is shocking. But I think most people if they reflected on it, would not think that generally only husbands/male partners would belittle their wifes/their female partners with words i.e. the reverse would also make a good percentage of the total number of cases. Yet, "emotional abuse" (from words) is on the spectrum of domestic violence which tends to be seen as man doing it to woman problem.

not sure what you're getting at here. I didn't say or imply that only men belittle their partners

thirtythirty

This comes to mind

iptba

LeeHoffmann wrote:

iptba wrote:

Yes, it is shocking. But I think most people if they reflected on it, would not think that generally only husbands/male partners would belittle their wifes/their female partners with words i.e. the reverse would also make a good percentage of the total number of cases. Yet, "emotional abuse" (from words) is on the spectrum of domestic violence which tends to be seen as man doing it to woman problem.

not sure what you're getting at here. I didn't say or imply that only men belittle their partners

No, you didn't (say or imply that). But given you gave a male-on-female example, I want to explicitly point out that the other can clearly occur. When this point is not made explicitly, it seems to be forgotten e.g. whatever about people having difficulty imagining that female-on-male physical violence might be a problem, it should be much easier to accept that female-on-male emotional abuse could occur.

darklighter

irishh_bob wrote: »

thats why no man should ever place himself in a situation where he has to answer to a woman , workplace female boss etc

Cant tell if you are being serious or sarcastic?

If serious, kindly teleport yourself into the 21st century from Ancient Rome

Alopex

irishh_bob wrote: »

thats why no man should ever place himself in a situation where he has to answer to a woman , workplace female boss etc

WTF? We're talking about physical assault.

jaffacakesyum

I'm not surprised watching this video. People seem to think it's ok to be violent if it's a woman towards a man. Very annoying double standard

Logical Fallacy

irishh_bob wrote: »

thats why no man should ever place himself in a situation where he has to answer to a woman , workplace female boss etc

Oh bob....some days you just try a little too hard.

Malari

I don't have sound on the video so don't know if this was addressed, but I think they should have used the same couple (on different days, locations, etc if necessary). There seems to be a much bigger frame disparity between the people in the first and second scenario. Just adds to the perception of the woman being more "threatened" than the man.

I know that size doesn't justify it, but for the purposes of control it would make the different reactions from the public all the more clear, I think.

Otis Driftwood

irishh_bob wrote: »

thats why no man should ever place himself in a situation where he has to answer to a woman , workplace female boss etc

With respect Bob thats a crock of shyte.Your experiences with ONE female boss you had has been well documented throughout Boards and I believe its something you genuinely should seek help for however tGC is not a platform for you to make such derogatory statements.You wont be warned about this again,please bear that in mind in future.Cheers.

LeeHoffmann

No, you didn't (say or imply that). But given you gave a male-on-female example, I want to explicitly point out that the other can clearly occur. When this point is not made explicitly, it seems to be forgotten e.g. whatever about people having difficulty imagining that female-on-male physical violence might be a problem, it should be much easier to accept that female-on-male emotional abuse could occur.

I understand what you're saying. With the same view to clarity in mind, I want to make clear that I wasn't giving a male on female example in order to show that men are the only abusive gender - just that it was the only recent example I could think of and it followed from my question re: screaming/quietly speaking abuse.
I don't think it will be forgotten (that female on male abuse occurs) in this thread in this forum, but I understand your point.

lettuce97

On the physical abuse front, does it not come down to size? In general, if you see a bigger person abusing a smaller person, regardless of sex, you'd step in. Vice-versa I don't think most people would be as concerned.

iptba

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

No, you didn't (say or imply that). But given you gave a male-on-female example, I want to explicitly point out that the other can clearly occur. When this point is not made explicitly, it seems to be forgotten e.g. whatever about people having difficulty imagining that female-on-male physical violence might be a problem, it should be much easier to accept that female-on-male emotional abuse could occur.

I understand what you're saying. With the same view to clarity in mind, I want to make clear that I wasn't giving a male on female example in order to show that men are the only abusive gender - just that it was the only recent example I could think of and it followed from my question re: screaming/quietly speaking abuse.
I don't think it will be forgotten (that female on male abuse occurs) in this thread in this forum, but I understand your point.

Real world examples are useful. Lots of things could potentially occur but it is interesting to know about things that actual occurred.

gargleblaster

paulmclaughlin wrote: »

This is the problem. If people see a woman attacking a man, they think he should be able to look after himself. As soon they see him defending himself, he is abusing the woman. There is a no-win scenario.

I agree with you about the expectation that the man should be able to look after himself. The sad thing is that people who are in abusive relationships often think they deserve the bad treatment, or are in some way conditioned to think it's normal.

As for self defense though, I'm not sure that it's expected that anyone who is being attacked by their partner should get into a physical fight with them. I would think it would be expected that they should simply leave.

Anyone who engages in physical fighting with their spouse and calls it 'self defense' is fooling themselves, they're just participating in the violence. Just walk away. If your life is in danger then that's a different story, but surely passersby would notice if the woman had a weapon with which she would be threatening the man's life, and therefore not assume he was abusing the woman.

onedmc

I am shocked that people are shocked.

Its natural to side with the weaker and to be disturbed when the a stronger picks on a weaker.

Nothing to do with double standards it one standard. What would happen it it was two boys one 8 and one 14 we would side with the 8 year old. It the 8 year old was having a go at the 14year old we would presme they deserved it.

Now if it go really violent we would side with the victim no mater what the size or percieved strength.

Sonics2k

onedmc wrote: »

I am shocked that people are shocked.

Its natural to side with the weaker and to be disturbed when the a stronger picks on a weaker.

Nothing to do with double standards it one standard. What would happen it it was two boys one 8 and one 14 we would side with the 8 year old. It the 8 year old was having a go at the 14year old we would presme they deserved it.

Now if it go really violent we would side with the victim no mater what the size or percieved strength.

Complete nonsense.

Abuse is abuse no matter the physical strength or size of the attacker or victim.

The clip points out quite clearly that people are much more likely to ignore cases of Female on Male abuse, but not the other way around.

iptba

onedmc wrote: »

I am shocked that people are shocked.

Its natural to side with the weaker and to be disturbed when the a stronger picks on a weaker.

Nothing to do with double standards it one standard. What would happen it it was two boys one 8 and one 14 we would side with the 8 year old. It the 8 year old was having a go at the 14year old we would presme they deserved it.

Now if it go really violent we would side with the victim no mater what the size or percieved strength.

In the case of the well-known golfer, who was injured, the story* was that this was from abuse and/or trying to flee the abuse. Did people universally side with the male victim?**

* As I said, we don't know what actually happened, but people responded presuming this was the truth.

** Admittedly they didn't see this happen, so it isn't quite the same thing

um7y1h83ge06nx

onedmc wrote: »

I am shocked that people are shocked.

Its natural to side with the weaker and to be disturbed when the a stronger picks on a weaker.

Nothing to do with double standards it one standard. What would happen it it was two boys one 8 and one 14 we would side with the 8 year old. It the 8 year old was having a go at the 14year old we would presme they deserved it.

Now if it go really violent we would side with the victim no mater what the size or percieved strength.

Going by that train of thought my girlfriend could do whatever the hell she wanted to me. I'm 6ft about 13-14st and she is only about 5ft1 and slim. I have to side with Sonics2k on this one.

28064212

Ayaan Rapping Rugby wrote: »

Going by that train of thought my girlfriend could do whatever the hell she wanted to me. I'm 6ft about 13-14st and she is only about 5ft1 and slim. I have to side with Sonics2k on this one.

Maybe I'm misreading, but to me, that's not what onedmc is saying. It's not a gender double standard, it's a size/physicality double standard. The clip in the OP shows an (apparently) stronger person abusing a weaker person, then a weaker person abusing an (apparently) stronger person, and people reacting differently to those cases.

If you replaced the woman (or man) with a physically equivalent female (or male) in the scenarios would it have elicited the same differing reactions? That's something which the show doesn't address at all

HavingCrack

That particular show is well known for deliberately setting out to get the response from the public that it wants rather than what actually occurs. It's not a level playing field to start with.

Watch the episode where they compare a black man and a white woman robbing a bike. The black guy makes the biggest ever ruckus doing it and makes it blatently obvious that he is robbing a bike while the woman remains very calm and quiet and does nothing to draw attention to herself. Suprise, suprise the public are more biased against the black guy as a result. If you're going to make these sort of shows at least use a common baseline for it to have any value.

LegacyUser

I've seen that video before, it's upsetting but not very surprising tbh.
I've watched a lot of videos from that show, and it seems that not many people will step in to help with couples fighting, regardless of the gender of the aggressor.
In the other half of that video where the man was the aggressor against the woman, only 10% of people intervened.
I don't know what percent of people intervened when the woman was the aggressor, it may have been a similar figure, I think they were more highlighting the differences of the attitude people had towards it, rather than the amount of people who would intervene.

Fair play to those girls at the end, one goes up to talk to the couple even though you can tell she is very nervous, and another woman rings the cops.
I didn't see any male standing up for the man, although of course maybe they just didn't show it, or else the males were afraid to confront a woman for fear of being labelled in the wrong themselves.

They did this situation with a teenage couple to see if the reactions of bystanders would be different, although I believe they only used male aggressor against his girlfriend.They state that 1 in 3 teenagers will be the victim of physical or emotional abuse.
That to me is a very high figure, and something to consider if you have teenage daughters or sons.

In this first scenario the teenage couple look fairly well dressed and average.
The vast majority of people who stepped in to help the girl appear to be women, actually trying to take the girl away, and shouting at her boyfriend. One man stops and gives a warning, and gets up in the face of the boyfriend, and then keeps walking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysl-InPwVyw

In the second scenario, the make the boyfriend look "tougher" looking with a hoody and chains etc.
The women they showed in this video looked too afraid to intervene, and it showed much more men than women getting very riled up with the boyfriend.
It was a woman though who eventually drags the girlfriend away whilst a man shoves the boyfriend away aggressively. They seemed to work together to help the girl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQb9aZ0-zjs

Double the amount (20%) of people intervened when it was a teenage couple.

In this scenario, they show a woman in conservative clothes with a battered face sit in a restaurant, acting afraid, and she is then joined by a boyfriend who acts very aggressive with her. They used 2 women in separate tests.
The response from both males and females is immediate. One man takes the boyfriend outside to try and talk sense into him, whilst this man's wife/girlfriend goes to comfort the battered girlfriend. Another man shoves the abuser hard when he starts up again.
With the second woman, two girls sitting nearby actually get right up in the face of the abusive man, and physically stop the man from the dragging the girl away. They are very vocal and determined to put a stop to it all.
(When the women are dressed sexily/revealing, not one single man or woman intervenes nomatter how abusive the boyfriend gets, but I think that's a different debate)

I don't know how accurate the information you could derive from these videos is, as they may use selective editing, and I only have 1 female aggressor video to go on. From the limited video footage available though, I think the videos I've posted show that yes males will intervene when a woman is getting abused, but there seems to be a lot more women who actually intervene, and go to greater lengths to protect other women, such as physically removing the girls from the situation, and standing right in between the aggressor and the girlfriend to protect them.

I guess my point is that although most women do not intervene when the aggressor is a female, they do strongly stand up for their own gender very well. I think males need to this more for other males.
I noted that it was not only females who ignored the violent female, but that not one single male defended the guy who was getting slapped about. They had exactly the same attitudes as the females, and seemed to even find it understandable or amusing.

I have witnessed this in everyday life. A man getting a slap in the face or clip around the ear from his girlfriend is usually laughed at and found very funny by some other men. I'm sure they would not find it funny if it was more serious physical abuse, but seeing as they find it harmless and causing no physical damage, they find it more amusing than troublesome.

In a perfect world each gender would stand up and defend a person regardless of what gender the victim or aggressor is, but I think that when it comes to female on male violence, it is so deeply ingrained that it is just harmless or funny, or that it's ok because the man must have done something seriously wrong otherwise a female would never hit, these attitudes are just seen as so normal, that I really think it will only change when more men take a very strong stand against it.

Too many men just brush it off as nothing, and imo this in turn leads to more women thinking it's acceptable, because if even guys find it ok, then it must be ok. Of course there are men and women (myself included), who will defend a male getting abused by a female, but I just think that there needs to be much more men who start defending their own gender. I think it will only be then, that certain females will begin to realise what they are doing is unacceptable, and not ok or funny or harmless.

I know that some men may be afraid of confronting a female aggressor who is attacking her boyfriend, for the very real fear that they will then be seen as a bully for confronting a woman. But this attitude has to change, and it has to start somewhere. Non aggressive confrontations should not do any harm, and if they become more common, these women abusers who think it's ok ,will hopefully gradually decline.

Hazys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7lfVyyEI70

See this for a double standard.

She slaps him basically believing there would be no recourse, but when there was, the lad got a beating.

LightningBolt

Hazys wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7lfVyyEI70

See this for a double standard.

She slaps him basically believing there would be no recourse, but when there was, the lad got a beating.

What a bitch. Reaction from men is way over the top.

LeeHoffmann

yes males will intervene when a woman is getting abused, but there seems to be a lot more women who actually intervene, and go to greater lengths to protect other women, such as physically removing the girls from the situation, and standing right in between the aggressor and the girlfriend to protect them.

This part of your post reminded me of a recent experience I had. Not the same thing but anyway. A few weeks ago, my OH, two of his male friends and I were on a night out - all p1ssed (hadn't seen each other in ages, long night of drinking). Three men started on my OH in a pub. My OH's 2 male friends then went to his side so there were 2 sets of 3 men facing off against each other. I went over and stood between them with the intention of preventing a physical fight. I literally stood between the lines with my arms out so that, if anyone wanted to fight, they would have to hit/hurt me first. This was the only way I could see to prevent a fight breaking out - and yes, I was banking on them all being decent enough not to hit someone much smaller and weaker than them/not to hit a woman. Anyway, it worked and all lads eventually parted ways with nobody getting injured. My OH's friends gave out to me about it later though and seemed to think I had done something risky and had escalated the issue (I would have thought my actions prevented a fight).

So I'm asking - did I do the right thing? (sorry I'm not trying to hijack the thread!) - should women get involved to stop aggression between people - or should they only get involved to stop female on male aggression? (i.e. is it too 'risky' for women to get involved in male on female or male on male aggression?)

um7y1h83ge06nx

I think some men's skewed view on female on male violence stems from their views of being a man.

*********

Some men think that as men they need to be "strong", emotionless and always be macho. They must never cry publicly, never appear nervous, worried or depressed. Women are "weaker" and so must always be treated as such.

Therefore they must always stand up for women and if a man is being attacked by a woman he must have done something to deserve it and is probably not really a "man".

*********

I know the above is a bit of a generalisation but some men do think like this and it holds back both other men and women in society which is a great pity. Men like this make it a lot difficult to discuss male depression, male suicide, sensitive male specific issues such as sexual performance issues (such as ED etc.).

This overly macho view can also be damaging to women as some men like this don't view the opposite sex as equals but as weaker and inferior to them.

Bit of a rant this but hopefully I'm getting my point across.

LeeHoffmann

agree with everything you said there Super Sonic

Dravokivich

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

So I'm asking - did I do the right thing? (sorry I'm not trying to hijack the thread!) - should women get involved to stop aggression between people - or should they only get involved to stop female on male aggression? (i.e. is it too 'risky' for women to get involved in male on female or male on male aggression?)

hmmm, doubt your actions would of escalated the issue. From my view if I was on your OHs side, I'd consider your placement between the two groups a risk and something to watch out for. It's been a long time since I've been in a fight, but whenever I've done so the last thing I'd want is to have to focus my attention elsewhere.

You would of been better off trying to just get your OHs attention and attempt to bring him away from the other group, which hopefully would of been followed by his friends.

I'd recommend you never get inbetween men that are squaring up, as you can't count on one side actually caring about what might happen to you.

iptba

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

So I'm asking - did I do the right thing? (sorry I'm not trying to hijack the thread!) - should women get involved to stop aggression between people - or should they only get involved to stop female on male aggression? (i.e. is it too 'risky' for women to get involved in male on female or male on male aggression?)

I think morally you did the right thing as it probably reduced the chances of people getting injured. I was relatively big (tall, etc.) in school so on occasion stood between people squaring up. Bystanders (males mainly I think - I went to an all-boys school) can be irresponsible and just interested in seeing a fight. But fights usually end up in hurt, both physical and sometimes mental (being shook up or, in that last video clip, the guy even crying which suggests that man was traumatised).

Men sometimes think they'll enjoy a fight. I think if they want to fight they should do it in a more controlled environment e.g. boxing, some sort of martial art, etc. Fights outside an uncontrolled environment are too risky esp. when some people are less scrupulous than others.

py2006

Ayaan Rapping Rugby wrote: »

I think some men's skewed view on female on male violence stems from their views of being a man.

*********

Some men think that as men they need to be "strong", emotionless and always be macho. They must never cry publicly, never appear nervous, worried or depressed. Women are "weaker" and so must always be treated as such.

Therefore they must always stand up for women and if a man is being attacked by a woman he must have done something to deserve it and is probably not really a "man".

*********

I know the above is a bit of a generalisation but some men do think like this and it holds back both other men and women in society which is a great pity. Men like this make it a lot difficult to discuss male depression, male suicide, sensitive male specific issues such as sexual performance issues (such as ED etc.).

This overly macho view can also be damaging to women as some men like this don't view the opposite sex as equals but as weaker and inferior to them.

Bit of a rant this but hopefully I'm getting my point across.

In fairness, I think some women view men in this light as well. The whole 'bad guy' thing again. If a guy is all needy, nice, full of emotion and sensitivity they would run a mile as he isn't a 'real man'. Nonsense I know.

You are right about how it contributes to mental health issues etc. However, I am not sure if you can completely blame men wanting to be 'macho'. I think its deeper than that, its inbuilt. I am by no means a macho guy or a jack the lad type but I would still find it extremely difficult to openly display emotion to a certain level. But I don't feel women are the inferior sex in any way.

Sonics2k

py2006 wrote: »

In fairness, I think some women view men in this light as well. The whole 'bad guy' thing again. If a guy is all needy, nice, full of emotion and sensitivity they would run a mile as he isn't a 'real man'. Nonsense I know.

Dangerous opinion I know, and I completely agree with you. I would even go so far as to say the majority of Irish Women think that way.

LeeHoffmann

I am by no means a macho guy or a jack the lad type but I would still find it extremely difficult to openly display emotion to a certain level.

Some women have that too. Again though I think this is more because of socialisation (man=strong, woman = weak) than any innate or inbuilt predisposition

Thank you Dravokivich and iptba for your POV's.

I'd recommend you never get inbetween men that are squaring up, as you can't count on one side actually caring about what might happen to you.

What about if a man is aggressive with a woman - should a woman get involved to help then? Obviously there's still the risk that the guy would start on the helper...but I suppose 2 women against 1 man is better than 1 woman alone.

It's a pity so many men seem to have been attacked by both the man and woman when they've attempted to help. That must turn people off getting involved? Hard to know what to do in these situations - you obviously want to help, but you don't want to risk becoming the victim yourself

I would even go so far as to say the majority of Irish Women think that way

Really?! :eek: I can only hope you're wrong there but I do know quite a few women who hold that stupid view. There are also lots of women that are disgusted by the macho attitude. I think most of Irish society sees men as strong and women as weak though. I think the two go completely hand in hand and both need to change

Sonics2k

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

Some women have that too. Again though I think this is more because of socialisation (man=strong, woman = weak) than any innate or inbuilt predisposition

Thank you Dravokivich and iptba for your POV's.
What about if a man is aggressive with a woman - should a woman get involved to help then? Obviously there's still the risk that the guy would start on the helper...but I suppose 2 women against 1 man is better than 1 woman alone.

It's a pity so many men seem to have been attacked by both the man and woman when they've attempted to help. That must turn people off getting involved? Hard to know what to do in these situations - you obviously want to help, but you don't want to risk becoming the victim yourself


Really?! :eek: I can only hope you're wrong there but I do know quite a few women who hold that stupid view. There are also lots of women that are disgusted by the macho attitude. I think most of Irish society sees men as strong and women as weak though. I think the two go completely hand in hand and both need to change

Allow me to explain sorry.

Not the whole macho man me hulk rawr me smash attitude.

Rather a real man isn't to emotional, loving, caring, romantic a lot, open with feelings.

(I should probably put off posting until I've slept some more :P)

Dravokivich

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

What about if a man is aggressive with a woman - should a woman get involved to help then? Obviously there's still the risk that the guy would start on the helper...but I suppose 2 women against 1 man is better than 1 woman alone.

Well that's always going to be a though one as the video's and topic of the thread show. Do you know if the man in question is naturally agressive or just agressive by means of a provoked reaction as a result of the woman intially being agressive to a point where the man could not take it anymore?

If I was to step in, it would be heavily dependant on the level of violence of the circumstances. Such as someone getting a severe beating. Regardless of a man or woman being envolved. I would not step in, if it's a few slaps, that's a a dispute between 2 people, leave it to them to sort out.

Solair

People should step in if someone's beating up their boyfriend or girlfriend.

A guy I know was hospitalised by his former girlfriend. She used to get really violent after a few drinks and she put him through a shop window one night.

She used to slap him around the place and everyone seemed to think it was funny until one day she totally lost it and did that. Nobody intervened and it was just getting worse and worse until it finally culminated in that !

The guy took months to recover.

There is definitely a double standard applied. There are still people taking the piss out of him over it, oddly enough mostly women!

If the same thing had happened to a woman and was inflicted by a guy, she'd be getting sympathy and counselling. All he gets is ridicule from a lot of people.

foxyboxer

Topical article in todays Indo...

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/independent-woman/love-sex/my-wife-beat-me-up-every-week-and-there-was-nothing-i-could-do-about-it-2871832.html

HavingCrack

Solair wrote: »

People should step in if someone's beating up their boyfriend or girlfriend.

A guy I know was hospitalised by his former girlfriend. She used to get really violent after a few drinks and she put him through a shop window one night.

She used to slap him around the place and everyone seemed to think it was funny until one day she totally lost it and did that. Nobody intervened and it was just getting worse and worse until it finally culminated in that !

The guy took months to recover.

There is definitely a double standard applied. There are still people taking the piss out of him over it, oddly enough mostly women!

If the same thing had happened to a woman and was inflicted by a guy, she'd be getting sympathy and counselling. All he gets is ridicule from a lot of people.

I do know that this is a very black and white view and there's clearly reasons why it doesn't occur but I simply cannot understand why anyone (male or female, straight or gay etc.) would remain in a relationship with someone who was beating the **** out of them. If there's children involved it's clearly an issue but if it's just the two of them... I know it happens pretty often but I really don't understand it.

Wolfe Tone

A lot of those women seem to think its acceptable to hit a man if he cheated, or physically assault him by pulling his hair, twisting his ears etc.

Incredible double standard.