The great big "ask an airline pilot" thread!

smurfjed · 07-08-2012 6:01pm

It's funny how one can remember formula's taught to us by Dennis Slattery.....

IIRC.......... M = 38.969 * sqrt (Temperature in Kelvin)

Nothing to do with wind speed at all

smurfjed

smurfjed · 07-08-2012 6:55pm

Would be curious to know what the lads in airlines with decent catering departments do?

We have the same food as the passengers, cavier, lobster, steak, cheese plates, fruit baskets, chocolates, ice cream and tonnes of pastries

:)

Not good come medical time

smurfjed

BTW.... whatever happened to XWB?

Potchumkin · 07-08-2012 7:01pm

smurfjed wrote: »

It's funny how one can remember formula's taught to us by the late Dennis Slattery.....

smurfjed will undoubtedly be gratified to know that 'the instructor to many' - Dennis - is alive and moderately fit; living in the Dublin area.

smurfjed · 07-08-2012 7:08pm

Yikes, I edited my original text, I was "unreliability" informed that he was no longer with us......

Thanks for the correct.

smurf jed

Julius Seizure · 07-08-2012 9:13pm

I've got what probably seems like a stupid question and I'm not sure if it was answered before, but please just humour me.

I'm 16 in a week and am going into transition year. I've always had am interest in commercial aviation, and have read up on a lot of the theory, and spend some time on the sim, not that it would count for much :rolleyes: what I'm wondering is, how did you all get started? As in what age did you start going for private lessons at, and is there anything you can do in transition year? I know there's no work experience in the cockpit but can you shadow say an FA and learn a bit more about the industry?

At the same time I'm torn. I've always wanted to fly and be a pilot, but I'm worried if it isn't the right decision for me as it is an expensive career mistake. I'm just only think that because I don't understand how you can sit in the same seat for so long, I think doing the same sector for a while would get quite tedious and it should be something you love, like hobby flying and not like driving a bus. Any opinions are taken gratefully

LeftBase · 07-08-2012 10:32pm

smurfjed wrote: »

Just got to page 9........ but can anyone answer this...

What has tailwind got to do with the local speed of sound?

smurfjed

I think it was an off the cuff comment. Like saying you could eat a horse.

bluecode · 08-08-2012 12:15pm

Dubhaltach, you can start now if you have the money. You can solo at sixteen get your licence at 17. That is rare though.

No idea about transition year, we never had that in my day. In any case a lot of transition year experience comes through personal contacts. So if you know anyone in the industry, ask.

As for it been an expensive career mistake, that's a mature perspective. I can be a very expensive mistake. Not everyone actually succeeds in getting a job out of it and some who do realise it wasn't worth it. On the other hand there are those who never look back. Plenty who tell me they look forward to going to work and are still enjoying it. Although I don't fly for the airlines, my job can be quite repetitive, yet no two days are the same. Different challenges every day, it could be weather or other issues. Yes sitting in the same seat for up six, eight or more hours a day can be hard on the morale as well as the bottom.

So there's no straightforward answer. The big factor when it comes to motivation is that you should enjoy the flying. If you don't it'll be long grind.

As ever the best advice is to look at going to college first and training to be something sensible while keeping an eye on the flying. Also get a class one medical. Better to find out early if there's something wrong rather than be disillusioned later.

LeftBase · 08-08-2012 1:15pm

Dubhaltach wrote: »

I've got what probably seems like a stupid question and I'm not sure if it was answered before, but please just humour me.

I'm 16 in a week and am going into transition year. I've always had am interest in commercial aviation, and have read up on a lot of the theory, and spend some time on the sim, not that it would count for much :rolleyes: what I'm wondering is, how did you all get started? As in what age did you start going for private lessons at, and is there anything you can do in transition year? I know there's no work experience in the cockpit but can you shadow say an FA and learn a bit more about the industry?

At the same time I'm torn. I've always wanted to fly and be a pilot, but I'm worried if it isn't the right decision for me as it is an expensive career mistake. I'm just only think that because I don't understand how you can sit in the same seat for so long, I think doing the same sector for a while would get quite tedious and it should be something you love, like hobby flying and not like driving a bus. Any opinions are taken gratefully

The best advice I could give you would be to read the experiences and comments and ask the questions of those of us trekking the path right now and hopefully see the outcome for us and perhaps learn from mistake made by others.

smurfjed · 08-08-2012 5:47pm

those of us trekking the path right now

LeftBase, where do you see this path taking you? Needless to say you are spending a great deal of money, so what is the goal?

smurfjed

LeftBase · 08-08-2012 7:13pm

smurfjed wrote: »

LeftBase, where do you see this path taking you? Needless to say you are spending a great deal of money, so what is the goal?

smurfjed

To be honest I see it taking me to a fATPL. After that hopefully a job. But I know that I will have to be flexible. I have the benefit of very few cast iron commitments so I could move about with less hassle that the average guy. I am spending money but I have been smart in how much and where I spend it. Every step has a cost and I try and pick the best path for a good time:quality:cost ratio.
I hope to secure a job in an airline...but once I have the fATPL il take anything with wings to keep the rust away and go from that point.

Overall goal. Captain at a good airline, model wife, swimming pool etc!:D

Julius Seizure · 08-08-2012 9:50pm

bluecode wrote: »

Dubhaltach, you can start now if you have the money. You can solo at sixteen get your licence at 17. That is rare though.

No idea about transition year, we never had that in my day. In any case a lot of transition year experience comes through personal contacts. So if you know anyone in the industry, ask.

As for it been an expensive career mistake, that's a mature perspective. I can be a very expensive mistake. Not everyone actually succeeds in getting a job out of it and some who do realise it wasn't worth it. On the other hand there are those who never look back. Plenty who tell me they look forward to going to work and are still enjoying it. Although I don't fly for the airlines, my job can be quite repetitive, yet no two days are the same. Different challenges every day, it could be weather or other issues. Yes sitting in the same seat for up six, eight or more hours a day can be hard on the morale as well as the bottom.

So there's no straightforward answer. The big factor when it comes to motivation is that you should enjoy the flying. If you don't it'll be long grind.

As ever the best advice is to look at going to college first and training to be something sensible while keeping an eye on the flying. Also get a class one medical. Better to find out early if there's something wrong rather than be disillusioned later.

Thanks very much for your reply. It was very infomativem and a lot more useful than anyone who says that flying is amazing and that there are downsides. I guess I'll look into flying at kilkenny, but I do already spend on Music lessons so I'm torn, it seems very early to be making tough decisions money wise to get a job, but at the same time 135 per lesson is just something that feels like it's for the aristocracy!

This is my issue, I don't want to take the risk. I think if I manage to difficultly shadow an f/a it might give me an insight, being at 36000 feet all day and of course it is surely a lot less repetitive to be in charge. Do you ever find the responsibility gets to you?

As per the medical, do you know what the guidlines for these are? I know I'm in perfect health except I have some short-sightedness.. he never gave me my VA but I know at the moment my Rx is 1.25 although since I'm under 22 that's set to increase. I can always get refractve done he says. It feels so early to have to think about these tough decisions... as for college are there any courses that could give you a lead up to aviation but also be ok for othe stuf f it doesn't work out?

LeftBase wrote: »

The best advice I could give you would be to read the experiences and comments and ask the questions of those of us trekking the path right now and hopefully see the outcome for us and perhaps learn from mistake made by others.

Aye, I've been trying to catch up from page one. I mostly feel is that I know how others feel but not sure about myself

thanks fir replying though.

Brad768 · 08-08-2012 10:31pm

How often is it that an air traffic controller (or pilot :P) messes up? I mean, you have a commercial pilot and air traffic controller, two jobs that are classed as the most stressful in the world, combined into one area. Does it ever get heated on the radio?

BTW one of my favourite youtube videos is the screw up at JFK haha

smurfjed · 09-08-2012 8:51am

Does it ever get heated on the radio?

Yep.... fun to listen as two sides thrown their toys from the prams and act like idiots..... Strangely enough, every good fight that i have listened to has included the same two nationalities. Taxiing around JFK can be a nightmare in good weather, in crappy weather it's unreal.

smurfjed

smurfjed · 09-08-2012 8:55am

LeftBase, sounds like you are doing modular training, that's what i did many years ago, back then the cost of flying in Iona Cork or the other school was about the same as a house

Overall goal. Captain at a good airline, model wife, swimming pool etc!

Not sure if this exists in Ireland anymore, but it does exist if you are willing to seek it out

Good Luck

smurfjed

bluecode · 09-08-2012 12:20pm

LeftBase wrote: »

To be honest I see it taking me to a fATPL. After that hopefully a job. But I know that I will have to be flexible. I have the benefit of very few cast iron commitments so I could move about with less hassle that the average guy. I am spending money but I have been smart in how much and where I spend it. Every step has a cost and I try and pick the best path for a good time:quality:cost ratio.
I hope to secure a job in an airline...but once I have the fATPL il take anything with wings to keep the rust away and go from that point.

Overall goal. Captain at a good airline, model wife, swimming pool etc!:D

Good luck with that!;)

As for the rest you would be amazed at the number of newly qualified pilots who say that but are not prepared to move abroad and are mysteriously reluctant to 'take anything with wings' despite it all but being handed to them.

Instead they prefer to sit at home and wait for Aer Lingus to phone them.:rolleyes:

These days with Ryanair no longer taking Irish pilots even if they have the money and few if any other pilot jobs out there. It is very neccessary to be flexible.

In my own experience of several friends and acquaintences who are now flying for a living. All of them refused to be put off and never stopped working on getting the job. One went from nowhere to getting almost too much flying and discovering the realities of the job very quickly indeed. But he still thinks he's lucky. Except that he isn't. He made his own luck.

That's the best bit of advice I can give. Snatch every half opportunity. You never know where it leads.

globemaster1986 · 09-08-2012 12:49pm

bluecode wrote: »

These days with Ryanair no longer taking Irish pilots.

It's funny I had heard this several times in the last few months also but recently I was in IAA HQ and met a young english chap who was having his licence switched from CAA to IAA who was working for Ryanair. He had finished his TR and was just starting on the line. I asked him if this was true that Ryanair were no longer taking Irish pilots. He told me there was an Irish guy in the class ahead of him and several in the class after him. Just one mans word but goes against what is being said on a lot of internet forums

bluecode · 09-08-2012 1:01pm

Well my info comes from inside Ryanair including a Captain, not internet forums. It doesn't mean they won't take any Irish at all. In fact they would be very careful not to be seen to be discriminating against Irish pilots.

The problem it seems is that too many Irish are persistently lobbying to get Irish bases and there aren't enough places. Other nationalities are more flexible it seems.

Whatever the truth there is no advantage in being Irish anymore when it comes to Ryanair.

bluecode · 09-08-2012 1:31pm

Dubhaltach wrote: »

I guess I'll look into flying at kilkenny, but I do already spend on Music lessons so I'm torn, it seems very early to be making tough decisions money wise to get a job, but at the same time 135 per lesson is just something that feels like it's for the aristocracy!.

Kilkenny is in a bit of trouble at the moment. It may not be open much longer as an airfield. €135 an hour would be cheap by the way. More like over €200. Yes you need a lot of money to fly. The comparison to music is apt. If you want to succeed in either activity, you must have a single minded dedication to achieving the goal.

This is my issue, I don't want to take the risk. I think if I manage to difficultly shadow an f/a it might give me an insight, being at 36000 feet all day and of course it is surely a lot less repetitive to be in charge. Do you ever find the responsibility gets to you?

Not sure how shadowing an F/A would help in terms of being a pilot. That wouldn't be allowed anyway. The responsibility doesn't get to me. But if it did, I'd find another job.

As per the medical, do you know what the guidlines for these are? I know I'm in perfect health except I have some short-sightedness.. he never gave me my VA but I know at the moment my Rx is 1.25 although since I'm under 22 that's set to increase. I can always get refractve done he says. It feels so early to have to think about these tough decisions... as for college are there any courses that could give you a lead up to aviation but also be ok for othe stuf f it doesn't work out?.

Here's the CAA version, it's essentially the same as the IAA as it's all done under EASA. The eyesight requirements are listed.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/20110318InitialJARClass1E3(2188)March2011.pdf

You could also go to one of the authorised aviation medical examiners in Ireland. The IAA website has a list. They can't give a class 1 but then will have plenty of info.

As for college, there are some aviation courses but mostly in the UK. University of Limerick has a Aeronautical Engineer course. Best thing is to do what interests you.

As ever do plenty of research.

RangeR · 09-08-2012 2:03pm

As this thread is for civvies, asking questions to pros, may I humbly request that y'all stop using acronyms and rather spell it out for us common peasants. No idea what some of you guys are yapping on about.

So far:
FA [F/A]
CAA
IAA
fATPL
Ryanair

bluecode · 09-08-2012 2:24pm

LOL:D = Laugh out loud.
FA [F/A]= Flight Attendant
CAA = Civil Aviation Authority (British)
IAA = Irish Aviation Authority
fATPL = Frozen Airline Transport Pilot's Licence. (No such thing actually, just means the ATPL written exams were passed. But the person holds a Commercial pilot's licence.
Ryanair = Haven't a clue, FR?

EASA = European Aviation Safety Agency.

finbarrk · 11-08-2012 9:40am

Is a real hard landing in ok weather conditions pilot error?
My last two trips from London to Shannon were with Ryanair and the plane hit the ground very hard on both occasions. Last Thursday in particular. On the way over I happened to be with Aer Lingus and the landings were so smooth you hardly noticed them.
Although the trips over were in the daytime and the last Shannon landing was in the dark. Maybe that made a difference.
And would a lot of hard landings be detrimental to the body structure of the plane?

View Profile · 11-08-2012 3:17pm

finbarrk wrote: »

Is a real hard landing in ok weather conditions pilot error?
My last two trips from London to Shannon were with Ryanair and the plane hit the ground very hard on both occasions. Last Thursday in particular. On the way over I happened to be with Aer Lingus and the landings were so smooth you hardly noticed them.
Although the trips over were in the daytime and the last Shannon landing was in the dark. Maybe that made a difference.
And would a lot of hard landings be detrimental to the body structure of the plane?

A "real" hard landing would be touching down at over 600 ft per minute registering about 2G or more.
It's unlikely as a passenger you would ever experience such a landing but they do occur and require a hard landing inspection by an engineer.
Yes, you could say its due to pilot error but often its contributed to gusty winds or windshear in the flare.

Passengers often mention the differences they encounter with Ryanair and Aer Lingus landings. I would imagine this is more to do with the design differences of Boeing and Airbus' landing gear.
Compare an A320 to a 737 and you'll notice the Boeing has shorter landing gear strut.
This could be a factor.

Another possibility is that as Ryanair has a lot of new cadet pilots coming through their ranks, they need a bit of fine tuning before they perfect their landing technique.

Landing at night is a little trickier as your visual references are less obvious.

Actual hard landings as mentioned earlier will require an inspection and will obviously reduce the life span of tyres, etc. however the gear is strong and built for abuse.

Tenger · 11-08-2012 3:26pm

View Profile wrote: »

.......Yes, you could say its due to pilot error but often its contributed to gusty winds or windshear in the flare.

Passengers often mention the differences they encounter with Ryanair and Aer Lingus landings. I would imagine this is more to do with the design differences of Boeing and Airbus' landing gear.
Compare an A320 to a 737 and you'll notice the Boeing has shorter landing gear strut.
This could be a factor.

Another possibility is that as Ryanair has a lot of new cadet pilots coming through their ranks, they need a bit of fine tuning before they perfect their landing technique......

I would agree with these answers.

FR v EI landings is a very subjective issue.
-Different aircraft.
-Luck on the day.
-Prejudice of the passengers due to personal opinion?

When (if) these airlines fly the same aircraft type then comparisons can be made. Personally I have always thought that landings were smoother on A320's over B737's. and thats a manufacturer based opinion,not airline based.

I have also experienced dodgy landings on A320, it seemed smooth but a late gust just took the control from the pilot, and we get a nice firm bumpy touchdown.

smurfjed · 11-08-2012 3:44pm

Is a real hard landing in ok weather conditions pilot error?

Why do you consider it "pilot error"? During aircraft certification, the test aircraft are "dumped" onto the runway up to the rate of descent permitted by regulations, the landing distance is then used for the calculation of landing performance. So if a flight crew wish to land on a runway within the certified landing distances, they pretty much have to comply with the certification criteria. If the runway is long enough, the crew might decide to make a smooth landing for passenger convenience. So its not pilot error, you are just too used to professional pilots demonstrating their skills

:)

That aside, Ryanair may have more trainee pilots than EI at this moment in time, the trainees are still developing their skills.

Mutt

pontia · 11-08-2012 3:51pm

have any of you pilots seen anything unusual while flying and did you report it ?

smurfjed · 11-08-2012 4:02pm

Sure, we have noted and report large fires, or idiots pointing lasers at the aircraft..... (bloody stupid thing to do, especially to us)

smurfjed

crazygeryy · 11-08-2012 7:23pm

if the pitots on an airplane fail.is there not a dial in the cockpit showing the speed of the plane like a speedometer.?I'm asking this because i was watching the documentary on flight af 447 that went down. their pitots failed and they couldn't tell air speed, part of the reason it crashed.

IngazZagni · 11-08-2012 9:44pm

Boeing recommend a "positive" landing. Landing distances are based on solid touchdowns. By doing a "greaser" you will increase your landing distance as it will take longer for the weight of the aircraft to fully compress onto the landing gear and only then will the brakes become fully effective. A greaser could also mean you've flared for longer leaving more runway behind you which of course isn't very useful. At some airports with long runways this isn't really an issue but at others where the runway is short then forget about pleasing the pax, just put her on the ground.

The accident of IX812 where the aircraft overran the runway on landing is partly blamed on the smooth touchdown of the aircraft.

I've flown with very experienced commanders and they will always put the aircraft down firmly no matter how long the runway is. It's not a competition, it's about safety and safety always comes first.

martinsvi · 12-08-2012 11:04am

crazygeryy wrote: »

if the pitots on an airplane fail.is there not a dial in the cockpit showing the speed of the plane like a speedometer.?I'm asking this because i was watching the documentary on flight af 447 that went down. their pitots failed and they couldn't tell air speed, part of the reason it crashed.

there is - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airspeed_indicator

and there is even one for vertical speed - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variometer

but I would suggest you to watch that documentary more careful once more, I'm sure it explains exactly why pilots couldn't tell their airspeed

Julius Seizure · 12-08-2012 11:51am

martinsvi wrote: »

there is - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airspeed_indicator

and there is even one for vertical speed - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variometer

but I would suggest you to watch that documentary more careful once more, I'm sure it explains exactly why pilots couldn't tell their airspeed

Weren't the tubes to tell the speed and altitude blocked with ice?

The great big "ask an airline pilot" thread!

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