How good would the LOI be with a €145,000,000 investment?

CSF

Chucky the tree wrote: »

No, but I support them. If I wanted to watch a a football match not involving Liverpool I wouldn't waste my time watching it played badly in the LOI and that's the point. A neutral football fan will watch the champions league because of the quality of it. Most people wouldn't want to subject themselves to the LOI.

Should you not support Barca then? Or if you wanted to go closer to home, United? Or do you only follow your logic when it suits you?

Het-Field

First, I believe the figure to be heavily distorted. I know tons of fans who travel to games in London, Manchester, Birmingham, and Leeds on the cheap (including myself). With some careful management, the combined cost of a flight and a match ticket can cost less than 100Euro, added to by a small fare for the Aircoach. Anything else, is an optional sundry. I know many fans who wont even enter the Club's shop, will not drink more than 3 or 4 pints, will eat lunch in McDonalds, and will wait until they return home to eat something else.

Throwing money into the National League will not guarantee success. The reason large investment has proved a dubious success in the UK, is due to existing custom and practice surrounding transfers, stadium construction, and wage structures. I would understand if the league went tits up in the future, but I believe that clubs like Manchester United know that they can sustain large-scale debt through their playing staff(and the possible returns on liquidation of the same staff), large scale international merchandising and brand recognition, high yield sponsorship (IIRC after Sharp Electronics ended its sponsorship of United, Vodafone and Yahoo both tendered large money for shirt sponsorship rights, property, small and large scale investors, and potential investment.

The National League is not ready for such investment, and with due respect, I dont believe it would know what to do with it if it did. The last time money was available, several clubs were run into the ground based on pipe dreams, and pie in the sky ambitions.

Chucky the tree

CSF wrote: »

Should you not support Barca then? Or if you wanted to go closer to home, United? Or do you only follow your logic when it suits you?

What? There is a difference in supporting a team and watching them to be entertained. No one supports Ireland for the good quality football, we do it because we support them. I don't support anyone in the LOI so I've no interest in watching poor quality football. If I did I'd just go to my local park and watch it for free rather then spending it on a LOI game.

CSF

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What? There is a difference in supporting a team and watching them to be entertained. No one supports Ireland for the good quality football, we do it because we support them. I don't support anyone in the LOI so I've no interest in watching poor quality football. If I did I'd just go to my local park and watch it for free rather then spending it on a LOI game.

Your whole post is one massive contradiction. You do not support a LOI team because of the lower standard of football. You do support a Premiership team despite their lower standard of football. Are you implying that the furore in this thread is to do with Irish people not watching LOI games as a neutral?

overshoot

thought for a moment we were going to get away from the whole epl v loi thing, and stick with some imaginary money going into the loi....... and unfollow

born2bwild

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What? There is a difference in supporting a team and watching them to be entertained. No one supports Ireland for the good quality football, we do it because we support them. I don't support anyone in the LOI so I've no interest in watching poor quality football. If I did I'd just go to my local park and watch it for free rather then spending it on a LOI game.

If you love, understand, and want to learn more about football you'll watch it anywhere.

You can learn a lot about football by watching it played at all levels. I love going to the park to watch amateur teams play. If anything I would pay to watch AUL or lower before adding my hard earned cash into the Sky Sports money mountain.

Of course, football has to be entertaining - I have seen some incredible, skillful and enthralling matches in the LoI Prem and Div 1 over the last few years - and I have seen some awful hoofball on sky sports in the same time - still, non-entertaining footie can be interesting, effective, enthralling too.

If it's just entertainment you want just get the xbox out and play fifa 11.

Gavin "shels"

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What? There is a difference in supporting a team and watching them to be entertained. No one supports Ireland for the good quality football, we do it because we support them.

Christ! You could have just said you support Ireland because it's the national side and make yourself the ultimate hypocrite tbh.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I don't support anyone in the LOI so I've no interest in watching poor quality football. If I did I'd just go to my local park and watch it for free rather then spending it on a LOI game.

Wait so you don't support Ireland for quality but you do when it comes to club football? Barcelona fan?

I love your last point by the way, top barstooling bollox! Shamrock Rovers are in the Group Stages of the Europa League, they knocked out Partizan Belgrade who were in the Champions League group stages last season. *washes mouth out*.

Your Airbag

born2bwild wrote: »

If you love, understand, and want to learn more about football you'll watch it anywhere.

You can learn a lot about football by watching it played at all levels. I love going to the park to watch amateur teams play. If anything I would pay to watch AUL or lower before adding my hard earned cash into the Sky Sports money mountain.

Of course, football has to be entertaining - I have seen some incredible, skillful and enthralling matches in the LoI Prem and Div 1 over the last few years - and I have seen some awful hoofball on sky sports in the same time - still, non-entertaining footie can be interesting, effective, enthralling too.

What games have you been watching? I hve seen hundreds of fantastic games between Sky, ITV, Setanta and BBC. I guess people only mention one side of the story whether it be good or bad when it backs up their argument.

Take your blinkers off. There is much entertainment to be had on Sky.

Ebbs

Just to add another absolutely pointless arguement to this already offtopic and commonplace debate on something not even hinted at in the topic.

As a Liverpool fan, I can safely say that Shamrock Rovers will be roughly 73 billion times more entertaining on 3e/tv3 this season than liverpool were last year. That's a rather conservative guess too.

Chucky the tree wrote:

What? There is a difference in supporting a team and watching them to be entertained. No one supports Ireland for the good quality football, we do it because we support them. I don't support anyone in the LOI so I've no interest in watching poor quality football. If I did I'd just go to my local park and watch it for free rather then spending it on a LOI game.

Also as far as the Soccer Forum goes, that is the most illogical post I have ever seen. I dont think any LoI fan who encourages people to go to games expects people to go every game as a nuetral. The whole point is to get behind a team and support them. You'd be surpirsed the differences between watching a game on the tv and going to an LoI game. Passion, Banter, and some very good/bad football on every week.

CSF

Your Airbag wrote: »

What games have you been watching? I hve seen hundreds of fantastic games between Sky, ITV, Setanta and BBC. I guess people only mention one side of the story whether it be good or bad when it backs up their argument.

Take your blinkers off. There is much entertainment to be had on Sky.

You should probably read posts properly before replying to them.

Neil3030

Regarding the OP's question, I reckon we'd be talking 144.9m spent on the FAI's junkets and cronies, and the rest on developing the game.

And that's what has the domestic league in the state it's in.

BOHtox

There's a reason the LOI isn't on at the same time as the EPL. No oppurtunity cost= no excuse!

Beefy78

Ebbs wrote: »

Also as far as the Soccer Forum goes, that is the most illogical post I have ever seen. I dont think any LoI fan who encourages people to go to games expects people to go every game as a nuetral. The whole point is to get behind a team and support them. You'd be surpirsed the differences between watching a game on the tv and going to an LoI game. Passion, Banter, and some very good/bad football on every week.

But this is where the arguement falls down to me. The thread isn't about the differences between watching football on TV and being there in person. This whole thread is about people who do go to matches, and go to great expense and effort to go to matches in another Country. Whether you think therse people should be supporting Bohs or Pats instead of Man United or Spurs they are supporting Man United or Spurs. That's their Club. That's where they get the passion, the banter and everything else that's so wrapped up in football which makes us all love it so and they are no more likely/willing to stop supporting their Club than you are yours.

If these people love their Club to the point that they will get up at stupid o'clock in the morning to travel hundreds of miles at great expense then they aren't going to just stop and start supporting Derry or Sligo instead. Maybe football supporters in Ireland are very different to football supporters where I grew up, but where I'm from you don't choose to support a Club. It's not a rational decision any more than you choose who you fall in love with. It's a passion and it just happens.

I support an English lower league Club. It's a pretty large and affluent part of the UK and there are no other Clubs within 30 miles or so so we've got a decent catchment area but sadly a lot of people would rather get on a train to watch Arsenal or West Ham than watch their local Club. But that is their choice because that is their club. All my Club can do is try to attract them to the odd game as a neutral and try to promote the awareness of the Club in the community and improve the standard of football to try to attract those people who don't watch live matches and to try to get the next generation of football fan to not want to support a Club from elsewhere.

That's what LOI Clubs should be doing (and maybe are doing) rather than bemoaning money spent by supporters of other Clubs who happen to be local to them.

doncarlos

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What? There is a difference in supporting a team and watching them to be entertained. No one supports Ireland for the good quality football, we do it because we support them.

:D:D

Brilliant!

Your Airbag

CSF wrote: »

You should probably read posts properly before replying to them.

I did, you obviously didn't . The part where he complains about giving cash to the money mountain that is Sky to watch the awful hoofball on there was what I responded to. I am a Sky customer and its worth every penny

Maybe you should take your own advice.

WindmillWarrior

Beefy78 wrote: »

But this is where the arguement falls down to me. The thread isn't about the differences between watching football on TV and being there in person. This whole thread is about people who do go to matches, and go to great expense and effort to go to matches in another Country. Whether you think therse people should be supporting Bohs or Pats instead of Man United or Spurs they are supporting Man United or Spurs. That's their Club. That's where they get the passion, the banter and everything else that's so wrapped up in football which makes us all love it so and they are no more likely/willing to stop supporting their Club than you are yours.

If these people love their Club to the point that they will get up at stupid o'clock in the morning to travel hundreds of miles at great expense then they aren't going to just stop and start supporting Derry or Sligo instead. Maybe football supporters in Ireland are very different to football supporters where I grew up, but where I'm from you don't choose to support a Club. It's not a rational decision any more than you choose who you fall in love with. It's a passion and it just happens.

I support an English lower league Club. It's a pretty large and affluent part of the UK and there are no other Clubs within 30 miles or so so we've got a decent catchment area but sadly a lot of people would rather get on a train to watch Arsenal or West Ham than watch their local Club. But that is their choice because that is their club. All my Club can do is try to attract them to the odd game as a neutral and try to promote the awareness of the Club in the community and improve the standard of football to try to attract those people who don't watch live matches and to try to get the next generation of football fan to not want to support a Club from elsewhere.

That's what LOI Clubs should be doing (and maybe are doing) rather than bemoaning money spent by supporters of other Clubs who happen to be local to them.

Can people not do both - myself I'm a massive Drogheda Utd and West Ham fan. And I go over to see the Hammers home and away as often as possible each season. Its great craic going over and I love West Ham, but it doesn't compare to the dept of feeling I get following the Drogs. I actually feel sorry for some of the barstoolers, they'll never understand the feeling you get supporting your local team.

Btw, Beefy78, Southend is it??

WindmillWarrior

Your Airbag wrote: »

I did, you obviously didn't . The part where he complains about giving cash to the money mountain that is Sky to watch the awful hoofball on there was what I responded to. I am a Sky customer and its worth every penny

Maybe you should take your own advice.

No, you are still wrong! he said some of the football on Sky was bad, not all. Obviously there are plenty of great games on telly.

celtictiger32

i think the original post was hypothetical, that kind of money would be nice and it would make improvements all round that is if it were used properly. too often clubs in the past have recieved a windfall and squandered it for a quick fix, if it was invested in the right places it culd be the start of a new era for irish football. its a vicious circle and money is a huge part of it if the money was there the clubs could invest in facilities, players etc, in turn hopefully having greater success in europe attracting more fans who ring more money and so on...

Your Airbag

WindmillWarrior wrote: »

No, you are still wrong! he said some of the football on Sky was bad, not all. Obviously there are plenty of great games on telly.

Oh dear. The backup has arrived. The general tone of his post was to slate the capitalist "money mountain" that is sky and to imply they show a lot of awful hoofball.

What about all the great matches, extensive PL, carling cup, SPL, championship and champions league coverage? Did it even get a mention. No. Because we all now how poor the champions league is!! Or even the multitude or other sports on there, did they get a mention? Of course not.

If you are trying to imply his post wasn't trying to portray Sky sports in a negative light then all I can say is oh dear.

Whats he doing watching Sky if its so bad?

Beefy78

WindmillWarrior wrote: »

Can people not do both - myself I'm a massive Drogheda Utd and West Ham fan. And I go over to see the Hammers home and away as often as possible each season. Its great craic going over and I love West Ham, but it doesn't compare to the dept of feeling I get following the Drogs. I actually feel sorry for some of the barstoolers, they'll never understand the feeling you get supporting your local team.

Absolutely. I've been down to Tallaght a couple of times to watch Shamrock Rovers. You can't beat going to a live game. But that said, I don't think someone who chooses to go to Everton or Leeds to support their Club should feel guilty about not putting that money into their local LoI side. They're just supporting their team, whoever that may be.

WindmillWarrior wrote: »

Btw, Beefy78, Southend is it??

The Pride of Essex, my friend

abouttobebanned

yosemite_sam wrote: »

Sad, I was on a ferry back in May. It was full of Irish Manu fans, like people possessed. You would have sworn that Manchester Utd were an Irish club, the way they were going on. We are going doing this and we are going to win that, the Club must be in fits of laughter seeing these mugs over week in week out

This attitude pisses me off. Supporting an EPL team is not too different from watching English and American TV and films, yet you don't call people who buy American DVDs as opposed to home made films, mugs. Supporting an English team is a hobby and it happens cause it's just as easy to support an English team as it is to watch coronation street. Giving out to people for watching eastenders instead of fair city is just as valid IMO.

And it's weird that someone who has essentially called us all mugs has got 5 thanks.

celtictiger32

abouttobebanned wrote: »

This attitude pisses me off. Supporting an EPL team is not too different from watching English and American TV and films, yet you don't call people who buy American DVDs as opposed to home made films, mugs. Supporting an English team is a hobby and it happens cause it's just as easy to support an English team as it is to watch coronation street. Giving out to people for watching eastenders instead of fair city is just as valid IMO.

And it's weird that someone who has essentially called us all mugs has got 5 thanks.

hes right though the way some of them go on youd think they WERE irish clubs they go all out man utd in their blood and all that crap theyd live and die for rooney etc that is until he puts an english shirt on and starts singing the english anthem. the same player they idolised a couple of days earlier theyre now baying for his blood. its not that im totally against people watching or supporting english football but i think some of them dont even realise theres football here on heir doorstep

Chucky the tree

CSF wrote: »

Your whole post is one massive contradiction. You do not support a LOI team because of the lower standard of football. You do support a Premiership team despite their lower standard of football. Are you implying that the furore in this thread is to do with Irish people not watching LOI games as a neutral?

Well yes. All 1 million people who watched the champions league final were all united are Barca fans and they also did do it just because they are "event junkies", they watched it because they expected to get some excellent quality football, something they wouldn't get at the LOI.

born2bwild wrote: »

If you love, understand, and want to learn more about football you'll watch it anywhere.

You can learn a lot about football by watching it played at all levels. I love going to the park to watch amateur teams play. If anything I would pay to watch AUL or lower before adding my hard earned cash into the Sky Sports money mountain.

Of course, football has to be entertaining - I have seen some incredible, skillful and enthralling matches in the LoI Prem and Div 1 over the last few years - and I have seen some awful hoofball on sky sports in the same time - still, non-entertaining footie can be interesting, effective, enthralling too.

If it's just entertainment you want just get the xbox out and play fifa 11.

If you love and enjoy something you want to see it performed by the very best for the most part. You won't see that happen in the LOI.

Gavin shels wrote: »

Wait so you don't support Ireland for quality but you do when it comes to club football? Barcelona fan?

I love your last point by the way, top barstooling bollox! Shamrock Rovers are in the Group Stages of the Europa League, they knocked out Partizan Belgrade who were in the Champions League group stages last season. *washes mouth out*.

No Liverpool. Not sure why it matters, this has nothing to do with who you support or supporting a team. I watched the CL final and didn't support either team.

Oh wow, for the first time ever. Clearly I have it all wrong about the league and it's brilliant quality on par with the PL.

Ebbs wrote: »

Also as far as the Soccer Forum goes, that is the most illogical post I have ever seen. I dont think any LoI fan who encourages people to go to games expects people to go every game as a nuetral. The whole point is to get behind a team and support them. You'd be surpirsed the differences between watching a game on the tv and going to an LoI game. Passion, Banter, and some very good/bad football on every week.

Some said since a 1m people watched the CL final interest was there, but plenty of those would have been neutrals so they do seem do think neutrals should be going to LOI.

niallo27

I live in clare, my nearest team would be limeick F.C., i'm not from limerick and dont care about limerick, who am i supposed to support.

celtictiger32

niallo27 wrote: »

I live in clare, my nearest team would be limeick F.C., i'm not from limerick and dont care about limerick, who am i supposed to support.

fair enough point, is there no decent amateur team in your locaity that maybe with a bit of support from football fans like yourself that could knock on the door of the LOI in the next few years

Your Airbag

celtictiger32 wrote: »

hes right though the way some of them go on youd think they WERE irish clubs they go all out man utd in their blood and all that crap theyd live and die for rooney etc that is until he puts an english shirt on and starts singing the english anthem. the same player they idolised a couple of days earlier theyre now baying for his blood. its not that im totally against people watching or supporting english football but i think some of them dont even realise theres football here on heir doorstep

abouttobebanned wrote: »

This attitude pisses me off. Supporting an EPL team is not too different from watching English and American TV and films, yet you don't call people who buy American DVDs as opposed to home made films, mugs. Supporting an English team is a hobby and it happens cause it's just as easy to support an English team as it is to watch coronation street. Giving out to people for watching eastenders instead of fair city is just as valid IMO.

And it's weird that someone who has essentially called us all mugs has got 5 thanks.

These two posts are the crux of the problem but its quite simple. There will always be those who like to engage in one up manship. "I can do this better" "I'm a real fan" etc etc. People have different ways of making themselves feel superior to others, its a natural facet of the human race. No where more the Ireland is this begrudging attitude rampant.

If you get enjoyment out of PL football, then watch it.
If you prefer to watch LOI, then watch it.

If you enjoy watching LOI and PL games, then do so.
If you like to call yourself a Real fan or whatever because you watch only LOI, then go ahead.

If you like to travel to the UK to watch a PL match then knock yourself out. You don't need to justify this to a LOI fan.

If you like to criticise someone for putting more into PL than LOI then go ahead but realise its a vapid argument.

If you want to cheer Rooney one week and boo him the next, go nuts.

I like both LOI and the PL and there is nothing wrong with it. Do what you want people and don't worry about the internet experts or "real football" fans. Its an argument that doesn't make any sense.

niallo27

celtictiger32 wrote: »

fair enough point, is there no decent amateur team in your locaity that maybe with a bit of support from football fans like yourself that could knock on the door of the LOI in the next few years

The problem is the GAA is too strong down here, i remember growing up and playing hurling, we all had new gear, hot showers, changing rooms, ten or eleven cars travelling to each game compared to when we played soccer, we had to use our hurling gear, 14 or 15 of us packed into 2 maybe 3 cars, we had to get changed in cars, at the side of a field covered in cow ****.

I always wonder how big football would be here if we didnt have the GAA, i think we be around championship level in england, maybe better.

WindmillWarrior

Your Airbag wrote: »

Oh dear. The backup has arrived. The general tone of his post was to slate the capitalist "money mountain" that is sky and to imply they show a lot of awful hoofball.

What about all the great matches, extensive PL, carling cup, SPL, championship and champions league coverage? Did it even get a mention. No. Because we all now how poor the champions league is!! Or even the multitude or other sports on there, did they get a mention? Of course not.

If you are trying to imply his post wasn't trying to portray Sky sports in a negative light then all I can say is oh dear.

Whats he doing watching Sky if its so bad?

Oh dear is right. As with most of your posts on this thread, you're going a bit OTT again mate! I think the point I made is fair enough. As for the rest of your hyperbole, I think I'll leave that to born2bwild!!

celtictiger32

Your Airbag wrote: »

These two posts are the crux of the problem but its quite simple. There will always be those who like to engage in one up manship. "I can do this better" "I'm a real fan" etc etc. People have different ways of making themselves feel superior to others, its a natural facet of the human race. No where more the Ireland is this begrudging attitude rampant.

If you get enjoyment out of PL football, then watch it.
If you prefer to watch LOI, then watch it.

If you enjoy watching LOI and PL games, then do so.
If you like to call yourself a Real fan or whatever because you watch only LOI, then go ahead.

If you like to travel to the UK to watch a PL match then knock yourself out. You don't need to justify this to a LOI fan.

If you like to criticise someone for putting more into PL than LOI then go ahead but realise its a vapid argument.

If you want to cheer Rooney one week and boo him the next, go nuts.

I like both LOI and the PL and there is nothing wrong with it. Do what you want people and don't worry about the internet experts or "real football" fans. Its an argument that doesn't make any sense.

niallo27 wrote: »

The problem is the GAA is too strong down here, i remember growing up and playing hurling, we all had new gear, hot showers, changing rooms, ten or eleven cars travelling to each game compared to when we played soccer, we had to use our hurling gear, 14 or 15 of us packed into 2 maybe 3 cars, we had to get changed in cars, at the side of a field covered in cow ****.

I always wonder how big football would be here if we didnt have the GAA, i think we be around championship level in england, maybe better.

i think the main argument from LOI fans is if half the people turned out and supported their nearest LOI team than the product as a whole here would improve no end and probably resulting in irish fans realising they have a worthwhile product here and not having the need to travel to engand to see quality live football. and op dont let that discourage you that still goes on believe me they still cram as many into the cars as can fit it just might be frowned upon a little bit more these days, and drive by most parks on a sun morning and you'll see plenty a bare arse of the lads braving the elements to kit out for the local teams. the g.a.a. always had the few bob and i wouldnt begrudge them for it either, while im a football supporter the oul ga' was run the right way and deserve their success on the other side take a bow F.A.I

BOHtox

niallo27 wrote: »

I live in clare, my nearest team would be limeick F.C., i'm not from limerick and dont care about limerick, who am i supposed to support.

I'm not going to say you should go out and support a team that play in the park. If there's no team near you it's not you're fault. This is more about those who blatantly ignore the League.

As an aside, there are too many people like you who are miles from a LOI club. The league definitely needs to be expanded.