Do you personally know anyone who.

jank

JustAThought wrote: »

There's a really nasty self jubiliant tone to some of the comments here; not the one above. For 20+ years I and many of my classmates have watched the price of houses, and rents rise, and been in a rising and sickening panic of discussing how we would manage or how wewould ever be able to afford a family home.
I think the OP is right; the extremes of buying planes and 5K baths and multiple properties in. X- aria are just that; extremes. It dosnt represent the majority of those in their20's and 30's who for all their growing life have known nothing but the fear of never being able to afford something especially if you are from Dublin.

Why the fear? if its too expensive rent. I dont see what the big fuss is about. Fear caused the bubble in the first place.

Head The Wall

JustAThought wrote: »

There's a really nasty self jubiliant tone to some of the comments here; not the one above. For 20+ years I and many of my classmates have watched the price of houses, and rents rise, and been in a rising and sickening panic of discussing how we would manage or how wewould ever be able to afford a family home.
I think the OP is right; the extremes of buying planes and 5K baths and multiple properties in. X- aria are just that; extremes. It dosnt represent the majority of those in their20's and 30's who for all their growing life have known nothing but the fear of never being able to afford something especially if you are from Dublin.

House in my college town was 30k in 1997, I came back from travelling 2003 - 2007 and these houses were now going for 265k. It didn't take a genius to see what was going on because wages definitely hadn't increased by that much.

books4sale

jank wrote: »

However Irish people like to go with the flow it seems.

Correction: Some Irish people.

.....the only things that go with the flow are dead fish.

Best.

RichardAnd

I think that something is going to be done to adress this mortgage mess that we've gotten into. Regardless of the morals, having thousands of people mired in debt isn't good for an economy so it seems likely that something will be done.

Now, I want to be 100% clear that I think a bailout in the fullest sense of the word is not what should happen. If any action taken was indeed a clear write off that took the debt off Joe Normal and let him keep his house then, and this is ignoring the mammot cost of such an action, not a single lesson would be learned. Even if someone borrowed simply to provide a home for their family, and many did, it still isn't right to socialise debt in such a manner.

Perhaps what's best is a reform of bankruptcy law such that an individual can be left with nothing but be free to start over. For the unemployed with a mortgage, this would allow them to free the shackle holding them here and get on with their lives but at the same time, it's punitive enough that it should act as a deterrent to future mass speculation.

Of course, what has happened here will happen again but with prudent planning, perhaps we can mitigate any future crashes.

Godge

Plenum wrote: »

Guys, hindsight is great and well done to you all who were sensible back in the day...never knew we have so much economic sages in our midst.

I bought a house in 2006 which has halved in value, looking back it was silly but there you go...like I said hindsight

It doesn't matter that it has halved in value if you bought a house that you intend to live in for the next forty years and you made sure that the repayments were at a level that you could afford. You are fine and nothing to worry about.

If you bought a house for investment purposes or to get on the ladder or at a rate you cannot afford, then you made a bad investment decision and that has nothing to do with keeping a roof over your head and at the end of the day, if you make a bad investment decision, you should lose money.

Spiritofthekop

mariaalice wrote: »

I don't know if this it the right place for this.

Part of the objection to mortgage forgiveness seems to be based on the belief that people used the equity in there house to fund a lavish lifestyle because interest rated were low, or that people were silly to pay the prices they did for there house.

But do you personally know anyone who behaved like that I am not talking of the anecdote we all here about someones friends cousins who re mortgaged and got a BMW, had the kitchen gold plated, and brought a holiday home in Spain.

I personally don't know anyone who behaved like that and I come from a large family and would know a large amount of people.

I think the vast majority of people who are experiencing difficulty are there because of under employment or unemployment or wage cuts.

I know plenty.....plenty.

1,000's & 1,000's of people did this.

mariaalice

I dont know what to think really, I do feel sorry for people who are in dire straights at the moment but on the other hand

In the milieu I mix in driving a 4 wheel drive etc., unless you needed it for work would be considered a bit vulgar so maybe that's why I don't know any body who went mad and did things like that.

cavedave

I do not know anyone who bought several houses and remortgaged to buy a flash car an holiday.

It is worth asking what will happen to all those that did substantially over borrow and continue to do so to pay for their lifestyle. Lottery Winners Do Not Avoid Bankruptcy if giving people 'free money' through a lottery does not prevent bankruptcy giving to them mortgage write offs may not either if they continue the way of life that got them into such debt.

Spiritofthekop

cavedave wrote: »

I do not know anyone who bought several houses and remortgaged to buy a flash car an holiday.

It is worth asking what will happen to all those that did substantially over borrow and continue to do so to pay for their lifestyle. Lottery Winners Do Not Avoid Bankruptcy if giving people 'free money' through a lottery does not prevent bankruptcy giving to them mortgage write offs may not either if they continue the way of life that got them into such debt.

Exactly it could be the worst decision this country ever makes.

cavedave

Spiritofthekop

Exactly it could be the worst decision this country ever makes.

I am not saying mortgage debt forgiveness is an awful idea I do not know what the scheme would look like.

I am saying that if you forgive the mortgage of someone, like many of those described in this thread, who are financially imprudent and continue to be so, you will not save them from the eventual reckoning of their imprudence just delay it.

books4sale

... I'd sooner dish out free money to those who grew a brain, at least they'll do something smart with it, get the country movin forward again for a start.

'Thicks' will never learn, give them a free slate, all this flamin' baloney, they'll dig the hole friggin' deeper, that's what!

They don't know how to manage the dough so what's gonna change when they get free slates.... ya, back to square 1, whoopin' and roarin', ya let's party like its '99.

I don't buy it, ahh sure they can't pay 'da man' til they're half-dead. So what! Life's tough, ya took the chance, now ya pay the piper.

Last words....ya make yer bed, lie on the fuppin' thing! :mad:

Peace to all across the world.

Curious Q

After reading all the posts so far, nobody has mentioned anybody they know that has taken advantage of the property crash etc.

Anybody have any examples?

amacachi

It would be a long-term investment to take advantage now for most people, why buy before the market hits the bottom when there are other things to invest in.

There are examples in the thread though of people getting lucky though if you care to read through it again.

Curious Q

Yes, I see there are people that dodged bullets and got lucky...

Does anybody have any other examples?

Just looking for some good news stories, everything is negative, moan and complain at the moment in this country.

ANXIOUS

Curious Q wrote: »

Yes, I see there are people that dodged bullets and got lucky...

Does anybody have any other examples?

Just looking for some good news stories, everything is negative, moan and complain at the moment in this country.

What paper are you writing for? Find your own stories.

woodoo

Curious Q wrote: »

Yes, I see there are people that dodged bullets and got lucky....

You would think from reading this thread that 90% of the people knew the crash was coming and that it would be severe. It didn't seem like that 5 years ago so i call bulls**t on the majority of posts in this thread.

BTW i didn't over stretch myself but that wasn't because i seen the crash coming it was because i was too tight to pay massive money that would eat up my wages every month.

amacachi

woodoo wrote: »

You would think from reading this thread that 90% of the people knew the crash was coming and that it would be severe. It didn't seem like that 5 years ago so i call bulls**t on the majority of posts in this thread.

BTW i didn't over stretch myself but that wasn't because i seen the crash coming it was because i was too tight to pay massive money that would eat up my wages every month.

Not really, even just adding up posts in this thread most people went along with the insanity.
On top of that, how many people bought from 2000-2007? 5-10% of the population? It's not like everyone bought.

Curious Q

ANXIOUS I don't work for a news paper, I was simply looking to hear a different angle on the OP.

You clearly have nothing postive to say then.

ANXIOUS

Curious Q wrote: »

ANXIOUS I don't work for a news paper, I was simply looking to hear a different angle on the OP.

You clearly have nothing postive to say then.

Just make sure you quote me, when should we expect to see it in the independent Alison?

coffee_cake

That's enough, back on topic please

sarumite

woodoo wrote: »

BTW i didn't over stretch myself but that wasn't because i seen the crash coming it was because i was too tight to pay massive money that would eat up my wages every month.

Thats not being tight, thats being sensible and responsible.

MrsG

Both my SIl remortgaged their houses for a better lifestyle, they will be paying off their mortgages long after I have paid mine.

Both their houses are in massive need of DIY'ing but they can't even afford to do the basics.

RedXIV

The only person I know caught was my cousin who bought a house he couldn't afford because he thought he had to get somewhere for himself and the girlfriend to live. He wasn't keen on it to start with but says now it feels like a giant chain around his neck, I really feel for the guy because he's a lovely chap.

And to be honest, if I was a couple of years older, I might be looking at the same situation. I never studied economics, but I knew I wanted to own my own house. I knew how much they were costing to buy and was dreading the thoughts of saving up a deposit but had resigned myself to the fact because I assumed it was the price to pay for all the conveniences of our generation. The only thing that saved me was going to college. If I hadn't spent 4 years in college, I'd have started working and looking at a place at some stage. I'm glad I didn't get the chance and this all has helped me be wary for the future but I have to be honest and say I hadn't a clue we were going to crash

Plenum

amacachi wrote: »

There was nothing hard to predict. The first few weeks of Leaving Cert Economics would teach anyone that the economy was seriously overheating, especially when tax cuts were put through despite inflation being over 4%. Many people and many media outlets that weren't vested interests also saw the fall coming. Our own ESRI and some of the European Institutions also warned that something wasn't right. Statistics were available before the crash showing huge oversupply and much higher rates of housing construction than other European countries.

It was all there to see for anyone who wanted to see it.

People chose not to see it...encouraged by greedy banks and politicians
The reason i replied to this thread initially was that i felt people were almost revelling in the fact that they didnt get caught like so many of the rest of us...like i said its easy to see mistakes and critisize with hindsight

foxyboxer

Curious Q wrote: »

After reading all the posts so far, nobody has mentioned anybody they know that has taken advantage of the property crash etc.

Anybody have any examples?

You can't short sell property.
Or do you mean picking up property at the latest levels?

Drumpot

woodoo wrote: »

You would think from reading this thread that 90% of the people knew the crash was coming and that it would be severe. It didn't seem like that 5 years ago so i call bulls**t on the majority of posts in this thread.

BTW i didn't over stretch myself but that wasn't because i seen the crash coming it was because i was too tight to pay massive money that would eat up my wages every month.

Good post and I believe this is representitive of the massive amount of PC warriors that frequent boards . .

Most of them werent in a position to buy and none of them did anything to try to let their voices be heard. I heard no other party give a radical alternative to reduce the bubble (they all promised more spending) and dont remember too many protests (big or small) at how Ireland was being run . .

What makes it even worse is that , if they did know that Ireland was in for a crash of epic proportions and they did NOTHING, absolutely nothing, its worse then doing nothing because you didnt know anything was coming down the road . .

This thread was similar to one where somebody would start by saying something like "I am a public servant and I think that I deserve a payrise" or something on those lines . . The amount of "warriors" that give out about the concept of debt forgiveness (without any understanding of the many variables associated with it) is staggering . .

If there is one thing that I have learned from the people of this country its that we are a resiliant bunch but the loudest voices always seem to be the wrong vested interest groups looking to prop up their own agendas at the expense of others. I dont believe necessarily in debt forgiveness, but I do believe in the concept of banks having to writedown bad loans. Unlike the warriors around here, I unerstand that people with mortgages took these contracts out with the banks, not the state and the state pretty much bought the loanbook to protect the national interest. I dont see why the state should get anymore protection then a bank in terms of writing down bad loans. .

Dragging out the bad loans doesnt help anybody and creates uncertainty that costs us one way or another . . I think drawing a line under this crisis as quickly as possible (that means shifting out all the sh*t loans/mortgages) will only serve to help the country get back on its feet quicker. Shame that the government will prob drag its feet for years, taking the ill advised view of some here, that we cant be seen to be letting people off their financial responsibilities . . Rabble rabble rabble . . This is absurd . . Rabble rabble rabble . .

Spiritofthekop

Drumpot wrote: »

Good post and I believe this is representitive of the massive amount of PC warriors that frequent boards . .

Most of them werent in a position to buy and none of them did anything to try to let their voices be heard. I heard no other party give a radical alternative to reduce the bubble (they all promised more spending) and dont remember too many protests (big or small) at how Ireland was being run . .

What makes it even worse is that , if they did know that Ireland was in for a crash of epic proportions and they did NOTHING, absolutely nothing, its worse then doing nothing because you didnt know anything was coming down the road . .

This thread was similar to one where somebody would start by saying something like "I am a public servant and I think that I deserve a payrise" or something on those lines . . The amount of "warriors" that give out about the concept of debt forgiveness (without any understanding of the many variables associated with it) is staggering . .

If there is one thing that I have learned from the people of this country its that we are a resiliant bunch but the loudest voices always seem to be the wrong vested interest groups looking to prop up their own agendas at the expense of others. I dont believe necessarily in debt forgiveness, but I do believe in the concept of banks having to writedown bad loans. Unlike the warriors around here, I unerstand that people with mortgages took these contracts out with the banks, not the state and the state pretty much bought the loanbook to protect the national interest. I dont see why the state should get anymore protection then a bank in terms of writing down bad loans. .

Dragging out the bad loans doesnt help anybody and creates uncertainty that costs us one way or another . . I think drawing a line under this crisis as quickly as possible (that means shifting out all the sh*t loans/mortgages) will only serve to help the country get back on its feet quicker. Shame that the government will prob drag its feet for years, taking the ill advised view of some here, that we cant be seen to be letting people off their financial responsibilities . . Rabble rabble rabble . . This is absurd . . Rabble rabble rabble . .

Yeah while we are at it we might as well "write off all the car loans, holiday loans, loans for extensions, loans for new kitchens, loans for another car, loans for my girlfriends new pair of ####, the list goes on & on its because of these loans that banks gave out wily nilly to people who could not afford them in the first place is the exact same as giving massive home loans to people.

I bought my fancy Lexus Jeep with a bank loan of 35,000 which should of never been given to me in the first place.... the car is now worth bugger all can i get my car loan written off please and can i hold on to my lovely lexus jeep?....no why not? ....can the tax payers not pay for it for me?.....

Monty Burnz

Does anyone else think that this thread has demonstrated exactly the opposite of what the OP was hoping for?

Monty Burnz

Drumpot wrote: »

This thread was similar to one where somebody would start by saying something like "I am a public servant and I think that I deserve a payrise" or something on those lines . . The amount of "warriors" that give out about the concept of debt forgiveness (without any understanding of the many variables associated with it) is staggering . .

Unfortunately for the 'please Irish public, pay my debts for me' crowd, there isn't a single shred of economic evidence that sharing the debts will do anything for the economy. Not a single shred.

So we'd just get loads of free-loaders having a free ride, and everyone else poorer to pay for it.

Monty Burnz

DublinWriter wrote: »

Ooohh but what about the interest? I was smart enough to get an offset mortgage so I'm backing up my outstanding balance with assets meaning that my mortgage is effectively interest free.

So you have an amount equivalent to your mortgage in your current account? That sounds unlikely, to be honest. Why not just pay it all off and be actually interest free?