religous teaching in primary schools

Musiconomist

magneticimpulse wrote: »

Are we becoming too PC? Not wanting to offend people? How far do we take it? Will people be better off with the change? Will people be better off with no religion, no spiritual believes, no morals? etc?

Could we risk are producing greedy, materilistic children who sponge off their parents for money?? Or can we still educate children without religion but with some other subject which still enforces morals and ethical beliefs? Without offending anybody?

Let's not confuse religion with morals. I dont see how you can equate a lack of religion with any of the above. Japan, which has one of the largest percentage of atheist citizens in the world showed incredible character during the recent flooding, where there was relativey few cases of looting. Compare that to Britain.

I think what you may be referring to is a lack of social and personal responsibility, but I think we can all agree (the Dublin riots spring to mind), that the current system hasnt provided these things either.

magneticimpulse

Musiconomist wrote: »

Let's not confuse religion with morals. I dont see how you can equate a lack of religion with any of the above. Japan, which has one of the largest percentage of atheist citizens in the world showed incredible character during the recent flooding, where there was relativey few cases of looting. Compare that to Britain.

I think what you may be referring to is a lack of social and personal responsibility, but I think we can all agree (the Dublin riots spring to mind), that the current system hasnt provided these things either.

Oh but for me in primary school I was taught morals in religion...and that is what you guys are against. Majority of the time is was a round about way...jesus did this, jesus did that...he educated people, shared food and spoke to outcasts in society...each lesson had a moral at the end of it..equally up there with He-Man or Captain Planet when I was that age.

What happened in Japan, happened in India, Thailand, New Orleans, New Zealand after similar natural disasters. The common factor is humans. I have lots of Japanese friends and they said people were in shock in the beginning and were later very angry and still angry (this bit has not been protrayed in International news....news is objective to the country you are in and what is interesting at the time).

Also the riots were not in Britain...Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland didnt have them. They were located to larger English cities like Manchester/Birmingham/London. There have also been riots in Paris lets not forget that.

The common factor is people not being heard, people in disadvantage areas and forgotten people in society.

It is great that you brought this up! Religion classes teach not to forget people and to help people of all walks of life....otherwise you get these riots.

Alot of Muslims in France find it hard because French are so anti religion. The muslims want to practise their religion but face a brick wall for not being accepted.

Your assuming all parents will teach their children the same you might. But they dont. Many children do need to understand death, life, morals, rights and wrong, respect, sharing etc. Currently that is under the umbrella of Catholic religious teaching in school. I am not saying it is right to teach it under that umbrella. But if you remove religion from school you will still have to replace it with a subject which covers morals,the path of life.

School is just not the get a career at the age of 18, 22 or 25. School should be an all round education to learn to get on with people, accept people of different walks of life, think about others and not just yourself, about giving and forgiveness. If you do not have social skills, society will collapse and nobody will accept or respect differences in people.

Sometimes you have to learn to put differences aside in order to get on with people. I dont think Ireland has it correct to have majority Catholic schools to teach religion or right in doing this...but I do think at the moment it is working better than England/France who have conflict between nationalities of different colour, race and religion.

We are living in the hear and now. I dont have children now...but already I am deciding what type of school to send them to, what country to bring them up in, what type of religion if any they should be taught.

You guys do have children at school now and the schools happen to be Catholic. Thats the way it is currently. It is not going to change overnight. It can be put in the process of changing, but by the time the change occurs your kids will no longer be in Primary school.

Also the Santa Claus thing...seriously??? Do you follow St. Valentines and St. Patricks day too?? The name Saint in front might give away that these are Catholic religious figures. Who is calling the kettle black now? You chose Santa Claus to keep for your children because you think this is a "nice" fantasy. But you can say the same about the whole Catholic religion, Jesus and God. Alot of us like to think it is all a nice fantasy in our heads. Jesus in our heads is a nice man like Santa Claus/Easter Bunny/Christmas...who cares if its true right?? An escape from reality. If your going to be anti Catholic, it is good to be consistent with everything and to be anti Santa Claus too? Or maybe you didnt want your children to miss out on other things which other children believe in? It brings me back to the French who claim State over religion and then observe every Catholic holiday in the year as a public holiday.

The whole point is...there are so many religious events which overlap into our society. Easter/Christmas/St.Patricks day, especially in Ireland. It is woven into our culture. I totally appreciate and will accept the fact if people chose to go down the road of no religion...but as someone said before you shouldnt really nit pick or keep the bits you like such as Santa Claus....if Jesus/God is not important to you, then it is kinda insulting to observe the other Saints...its kinda mocking someones religion if you see what i mean.

dkin

magneticimpulse wrote: »

Oh but for me in primary school I was taught morals in religion...and that is what you guys are against. Majority of the time is was a round about way...jesus did this, jesus did that...he educated people, shared food and spoke to outcasts in society...each lesson had a moral at the end of it..equally up there with He-Man or Captain Planet when I was that age.

There are better, less confusing ways of teaching morality. You could base it on the UN human rights charter. Instead we have a system that instils fear by telling children that unless they follow certain rules and obey a certain institution they will spend eternity burning in hell.

It is great that you brought this up! Religion classes teach not to forget people and to help people of all walks of life....otherwise you get these riots.

Religion can also instigate riots and indeed full blown warfare. History is full of religious war. In fact it could be argued that religion has been a powerful agent of intolerance throughout history. People have been killed on a huge scale simply for disobeying religious leaders.

Alot of Muslims in France find it hard because French are so anti religion. The muslims want to practise their religion but face a brick wall for not being accepted.

I don't think anyone in France is preventing muslims from practising their religion. You seem to be putting the blame solely on the non-religious French here. Have you considered the possibilty that strictly religious muslims in those countries might suffer from the inflexibility of their religious upbringing and are simply not as socially adaptable as those with more lax religious beliefs?

Your assuming all parents will teach their children the same you might. But they dont. Many children do need to understand death, life, morals, rights and wrong, respect, sharing etc. Currently that is under the umbrella of Catholic religious teaching in school. I am not saying it is right to teach it under that umbrella. But if you remove religion from school you will still have to replace it with a subject which covers morals,the path of life.

No children don't understand any of those things they are told the catholic interpretation of those things. For instance is it morally right to exclude women from being priests or prevent priests from marrying or is a simply a system of control and male dominance. It all depends on personal interpretation yet according to the RC church it is morally right.

School is just not the get a career at the age of 18, 22 or 25. School should be an all round education to learn to get on with people, accept people of different walks of life, think about others and not just yourself, about giving and forgiveness. If you do not have social skills, society will collapse and nobody will accept or respect differences in people.

I see no reason why religion is necessary for any of those things. You assume here that people who are not religious find it difficult to get on with other people, accept different people, think about others etc. However there is an argument that religion creates people who are suspicious and less tolerant of those with differing faiths as can be seen historically in the many religious wars.

I do think at the moment it is working better than England/France who have conflict between nationalities of different colour, race and religion.

I'm not convinced about this, what evidence do you have? We are a more homogeneous society.

Also the Santa Claus thing...seriously??? Do you follow St. Valentines and St. Patricks day too?? The name Saint in front might give away that these are Catholic religious figures. Who is calling the kettle black now? You chose Santa Claus to keep for your children because you think this is a "nice" fantasy. But you can say the same about the whole Catholic religion, Jesus and God. Alot of us like to think it is all a nice fantasy in our heads. Jesus in our heads is a nice man like Santa Claus/Easter Bunny/Christmas...who cares if its true right?? An escape from reality. If your going to be anti Catholic, it is good to be consistent with everything and to be anti Santa Claus too? Or maybe you didnt want your children to miss out on other things which other children believe in? It brings me back to the French who claim State over religion and then observe every Catholic holiday in the year as a public holiday.

Do you celebrate Halloween? Are you pagan? If you're going to be Catholic you might as well do it properly and ignore Halloween. You can disagree with indoctrination but still take the day off.

The whole point is...there are so many religious events which overlap into our society. Easter/Christmas/St.Patricks day, especially in Ireland. It is woven into our culture. I totally appreciate and will accept the fact if people chose to go down the road of no religion...but as someone said before you shouldnt really nit pick or keep the bits you like such as Santa Claus....if Jesus/God is not important to you, then it is kinda insulting to observe the other Saints...its kinda mocking someones religion if you see what i mean.

I am not sure these people are observing the other saints. They simply take the day off as it is a designated day off. It is simply a cultural tradition that is practical. The vast majority of the ritual surrounding Christmas for instance makes sense on a humanistic level and you can recognise and engage in these aspects (seeing family, giving presents, being with family etc) without observing any religious faith or mocking someones religion. The religious element in many of these holidays is decreasing over time.

dkin

magneticimpulse wrote: »

I chose to remain Catholic and if I want to pick and chose from that I will. If I want to use it for interpretation and my family do...then we chose to do that. It is not for you to decide if you agree with peoples level of Catholic. If people gain something out of it...if they pick or chose based on stories/fabels and it helps them live a better life. If it helps them deal with death, marriage, birth etc. Then let them be.

But if your interpretation is different from the Catholic interpretation than how are you Catholic? Fundamentally Catholicism is a set of rituals and doctrine that are supposed to be infallible (that is one of the key tenants) there is no room for manoeuvre with infallibility.

I do question the world around me. But I know I am not better than anybody and I know I do not have all the answers. I do not judge people if they have a totally different way of thinking. Thou I like to understand why they think in such a way...its interesting.

Good but do you think you are this way solely because of your religious upbringing? Would you not be any of these things without the Catholic church?

I did need the information. It helped me be a better person. I enjoyed it and it was a positive experience. I would not like to have attended a French or UK state school for example.

Well much of the fundamental information that is taught in RE is important and needed. But the method of delivery is highly suspect.

Yes I know shops are open in Ireland on a Sunday. France claims the church and state are seperate yet they close shops on Sunday because it is Catholic Church day. They also use all Catholic religious days...assumption/asscension as their public holidays. Talk about calling the kettle black.

Well I think the French are probably practical and took the option of least resistance.

Musiconomist

magneticimpulse wrote: »

Oh but for me in primary school I was taught morals in religion...and that is what you guys are against. Majority of the time is was a round about way...jesus did this, jesus did that...he educated people, shared food and spoke to outcasts in society...each lesson had a moral at the end of it..equally up there with He-Man or Captain Planet when I was that age.

What happened in Japan, happened in India, Thailand, New Orleans, New Zealand after similar natural disasters. The common factor is humans. I have lots of Japanese friends and they said people were in shock in the beginning and were later very angry and still angry (this bit has not been protrayed in International news....news is objective to the country you are in and what is interesting at the time).

Also the riots were not in Britain...Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland didnt have them. They were located to larger English cities like Manchester/Birmingham/London. There have also been riots in Paris lets not forget that.

The common factor is people not being heard, people in disadvantage areas and forgotten people in society.

It is great that you brought this up! Religion classes teach not to forget people and to help people of all walks of life....otherwise you get these riots.

Alot of Muslims in France find it hard because French are so anti religion. The muslims want to practise their religion but face a brick wall for not being accepted.

Your assuming all parents will teach their children the same you might. But they dont. Many children do need to understand death, life, morals, rights and wrong, respect, sharing etc. Currently that is under the umbrella of Catholic religious teaching in school. I am not saying it is right to teach it under that umbrella. But if you remove religion from school you will still have to replace it with a subject which covers morals,the path of life.

School is just not the get a career at the age of 18, 22 or 25. School should be an all round education to learn to get on with people, accept people of different walks of life, think about others and not just yourself, about giving and forgiveness. If you do not have social skills, society will collapse and nobody will accept or respect differences in people.

Sometimes you have to learn to put differences aside in order to get on with people. I dont think Ireland has it correct to have majority Catholic schools to teach religion or right in doing this...but I do think at the moment it is working better than England/France who have conflict between nationalities of different colour, race and religion.

We are living in the hear and now. I dont have children now...but already I am deciding what type of school to send them to, what country to bring them up in, what type of religion if any they should be taught.

You guys do have children at school now and the schools happen to be Catholic. Thats the way it is currently. It is not going to change overnight. It can be put in the process of changing, but by the time the change occurs your kids will no longer be in Primary school.

Also the Santa Claus thing...seriously??? Do you follow St. Valentines and St. Patricks day too?? The name Saint in front might give away that these are Catholic religious figures. Who is calling the kettle black now? You chose Santa Claus to keep for your children because you think this is a "nice" fantasy. But you can say the same about the whole Catholic religion, Jesus and God. Alot of us like to think it is all a nice fantasy in our heads. Jesus in our heads is a nice man like Santa Claus/Easter Bunny/Christmas...who cares if its true right?? An escape from reality. If your going to be anti Catholic, it is good to be consistent with everything and to be anti Santa Claus too? Or maybe you didnt want your children to miss out on other things which other children believe in? It brings me back to the French who claim State over religion and then observe every Catholic holiday in the year as a public holiday.

The whole point is...there are so many religious events which overlap into our society. Easter/Christmas/St.Patricks day, especially in Ireland. It is woven into our culture. I totally appreciate and will accept the fact if people chose to go down the road of no religion...but as someone said before you shouldnt really nit pick or keep the bits you like such as Santa Claus....if Jesus/God is not important to you, then it is kinda insulting to observe the other Saints...its kinda mocking someones religion if you see what i mean.

I disagree with a lot that you say. I think the biggest influence on children and who we eventually turn out to be, comes from our parents. Most of our morals/principles are taken from our parents. I think that you will accept their judgements without question, when you are young. But I dont like the idea of religion being introduced at such an early age into a child's world. Ideas like eternal damnation and sexism (original sin, Mary Magdalene) can have quite negative impacts on a child's rationalization of the world.

What was that Jesuit saying again?

As for disrespecting people's holidays, I think that's nonsense. Part of living in a secular society is being able to share differences and celebrate them. I wouldnt refuse to attend a wedding just because it is in a church/mosque/synagogue. I will celebrate Christmas with my children (when I have children), as it is a great idea for a holiday. I wouldnt deprive my children of the wonder of the holiday, nor would I make them feel like outcasts by being the only children at school without Christmas presents. I dont see it as a moral dilemma. My concern is for how my children are being influenced to think.

byhookorbycrook

Er...Hallowe'en= all Hallows' eve..

Insect Overlord

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Er...Hallowe'en= all Hallows' eve..

...created to give the pagans something Christian to do instead of celebrating Samhain.

tadhgmorris

Originally Posted by magneticimpulse

Also the Santa Claus thing...seriously??? Do you follow St. Valentines and St. Patricks day too?? The name Saint in front might give away that these are Catholic religious figures. Who is calling the kettle black now? You chose Santa Claus to keep for your children because you think this is a "nice" fantasy. But you can say the same about the whole Catholic religion, Jesus and God. Alot of us like to think it is all a nice fantasy in our heads. Jesus in our heads is a nice man like Santa Claus/Easter Bunny/Christmas...who cares if its true right?? An escape from reality. If your going to be anti Catholic, it is good to be consistent with everything and to be anti Santa Claus too? Or maybe you didnt want your children to miss out on other things which other children believe in? It brings me back to the French who claim State over religion and then observe every Catholic holiday in the year as a public holiday.

i knew it. holy moly a nice fantasy you say. this is like a script for father doogal and fr ted. "all a nice fantasy in our heads" - Ted. "Jesus in our heads is a nice man like Santa Claus/Easter Bunny/Christmas...who cares if its true right??" but it is not a fantasy it is being taught as fact. Fact my man. primary teaching is to push for kids to enter into catholic religion. to believe as fact these "nice stories" from the bible as fact. surely you cannot expect a non catholic to be happy to have kids taught as fact what i consider a as you admit "a nice fantasy in our heads".

anyway i will be speaking with local schools and will get hopefully something positive back from principles.

An Bradán Feasa

magneticimpulse wrote: »

Also the Santa Claus thing...seriously??? Do you follow St. Valentines and St. Patricks day too?? The name Saint in front might give away that these are Catholic religious figures. Who is calling the kettle black now? You chose Santa Claus to keep for your children because you think this is a "nice" fantasy.

I believe this is called A La Carte Atheism!

The Black Oil

I don't know if it's fair to compare the teaching of fundamental numerical and literacy skills to the teaching of religious instruction (for a specific faith, rather than an all round approach). As for the dislike of Irish, I'd put much of that down to fairly dreadful curriculum, in my day at least. I've also never really accepted the whole 'if you're part of a club, you follow the rules' thing that crops up in this debate. That doesn't really wash with me because at best it seems simplistic and a bit naive. A church isn't your local GAA, soccer, golf or scouts club. The majority of people will never have any contact with senior members of the church, whereas they may well do with people in sporting or other community organisations. Supporting a team or individuals is a bit different to following a deity. OK, so people may have a good relationship with the church's foot soldier's, but ordinary people have little input into the church's affairs, it's not as if there are any AGM meetings you can attend, is it? I went to Catholic schools, but have never felt that my moral backbone or whatever you want to call it, comes from those experiences.

It's a debate we've a tough time having in general (the debate around Irish is also problematic, imo). I think sometimes part of that is down to expectations that are a bit unrealistic (within elements of all sides), those who want things to stay as is, those who fake the Catholic bit, parents who want the Catholic thing done, but don't take much part in it and dump it all on the teachers, those who want it dismantled, those who simply want more choice and flexibility in the system and so on. Again, I think we're less of a "Catholic country" in practice than on paper. Part of the population do follow the faith, but I think another wants to be perceived (I'm not even talking about the a la carte/part-timers) as a Catholic country because I think that's seen as safer than reform, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Even if you put aside the abuse scandals I wonder if this country's relationship with the church is a little bit, I don't know, toxic. Personal bias is that it isn't healthy. In terms of comparisons to European peers and neighbours, again not sure about that...we've always been a bit slow to progress in some respects. All systems, education, policing, health...disability support have access issues, the less there is within each one, well, I don't think that bodes well in general or for the future.

magneticimpulse

Not all parents in society do have the capability thou to pass on good knowledge/morals to their children unfortunately. Not all parents are fortunate to be in a 2.1 family situation, there are many levels.

I agree with A la Carte Athiest (just as well as A la Carte people who follow religion). It is difficult to argue that you think it is not right to teach children false information,religious fiction such as Adam and Eve, yet to let them believe a fat jolly guy flies around the planet in 24 hours visiting every child on the planet. It should be consistent in order to argue the point that religious instruction should be removed from schools in Ireland.

I am half Catholic/Scientist...I never claimed to be one extreme or the other. Just like I am a full vegeterian...its not the norm in life. I set my own standard with that. I accept that I live in a meat eating world environment...I dont preach to other meat eaters about that or try to change things. They accept me provided i am not too fussy and I accept them.....I wouldnt expect to sit at a different table to other meat eaters...Same could be said about non religious people in a religious environment ie in schools, vice versa. Sure non religious people should be catered for but I do not think they need to be seperated from the rest.

I do agree with if its not broken then no need to fix it. Certainly there could be less time spent on the Catholic bit of the subject/school life in general and more time spent introducing a "spiritual/civics/ethical/society/general info on all religion" sort of subject. But I strongly believe there needs to be a subject to replace religion should Irish schools wish to abolish it. Like everyone knows, there is more to life and getting a job then just knowing how to spell and do addition.

As for the church not being a club? Well I was part of the school choir, church music group and girl guides as a kid. It can have positive aspects to gather socially with other people and for children. Sure the Church has had bad press/ways of conduct... but that is another topic.

There is certainly one large organisation which is taking over childrens interest and gathering members to join and that is Facebook. So we are already replacing the "church" with another equally large following thing in our lives.

I dont think Ireland needs to play catch up with its European neighbours. There have been alot of things which Ireland has accepted before any other country in Europe. France is very set in its ways and they still use cheques, etc among other things. They are very resistent to change.

Ireland has been maybe changing too fast and is finally brought back down to earth with the recession. This is one topic "Catholic schools" which I think is on the last of a long list for change in Ireland at the moment. Ireland has to rebuild so many other fractured parts of its society. I dont think it is financially viable at the moment and I doubt it will be for a long time to make huge changes to school buildings/system. We will be lucky to get enough teachers to have small classroom sizes. Having to implement a whole new structure and education system into 87% of Irish schools will cost alot and take many years I think. Especially in rural Ireland.

Lets take one thing at a time. I think Irish people already have enough taxes going to repay bankers/property developers which will be passed onto their children. I think the thoughts of changing the education system at the same time will cripple the country. I can imagine it would cost alot of money to retrain all the Primary school teachers...it might seem obvious just to scrap a subject, but I am sure it would be more complicated then that...involve restructuring, retraining, deciding which schools to change etc. Paying people/civil servents to decide what would be the best method to go about it etc etc. Maybe making cutbacks, people losing jobs...who knows what the full costs would involve to make such a change. Im sure when the country is up and running again there will be provisions made for a less dependent on Catholic religion schooling system.

D4RK ONION

Sorry, I think some people in this thread need a dictionary. Atheist. A-Theism. Without religion. WITHOUT GOD. NO GOD. That is all being atheist means. You either believe in God or you don't. Santa doesn't come into it. Wow.

Musiconomist

magneticimpulse wrote: »

Not all parents in society do have the capability thou to pass on good knowledge/morals to their children unfortunately. Not all parents are fortunate to be in a 2.1 family situation, there are many levels.

I dont think that some parents lack the ability to pass on morals, more like, some parents dont have morals that we would recognise as being good. Children learn by example, and learn most from their parents. This is unavoidable though, due to free will/human nature. Religious education will not fix this.

I agree with A la Carte Athiest (just as well as A la Carte people who follow religion). It is difficult to argue that you think it is not right to teach children false information,religious fiction such as Adam and Eve, yet to let them believe a fat jolly guy flies around the planet in 24 hours visiting every child on the planet. It should be consistent in order to argue the point that religious instruction should be removed from schools in Ireland.

What are you talking about? Do you tell your children that their favourite animated characters are being drawn by Koreans being who are paid low wages? Children have plenty of time to learn how cruel the world is.

As an atheist, I decide what I believe in. I dont believe in any of the story behind Christmas, but it is a nice holiday. This doesnt impact anyone else. Why do you care whether I celebrate it?

I am half Catholic/Scientist...I never claimed to be one extreme or the other. Just like I am a full vegeterian...its not the norm in life. I set my own standard with that. I accept that I live in a meat eating world environment...I dont preach to other meat eaters about that or try to change things. They accept me provided i am not too fussy and I accept them.....I wouldnt expect to sit at a different table to other meat eaters...Same could be said about non religious people in a religious environment ie in schools, vice versa. Sure non religious people should be catered for but I do not think they need to be seperated from the rest.

Half Catholic/half scientist, surely a clash of terms? Your logic is flawed in this, I think. In your example, you have a choice. In reality, the choice is made for children without their knowledge. Therefore, they might not choose to forego religion, but I believe it is in their best interests.

I do agree with if its not broken then no need to fix it. Certainly there could be less time spent on the Catholic bit of the subject/school life in general and more time spent introducing a "spiritual/civics/ethical/society/general info on all religion" sort of subject. But I strongly believe there needs to be a subject to replace religion should Irish schools wish to abolish it. Like everyone knows, there is more to life and getting a job then just knowing how to spell and do addition.

How can you say its not broken? At least 97% of the corrupt politicians, corrupt clergy and corrupt bankers all went to Catholic schools. It either had no effect or else a negative effect on these people. I think any religious education should be left to secondary schools, and then only as a broad overview.

Personally, I think, the governments assistance in covering up abuse stories led people to lose faith in authority, and why wouldnt it.

There is certainly one large organisation which is taking over childrens interest and gathering members to join and that is Facebook. So we are already replacing the "church" with another equally large following thing in our lives.

Not so sure about this. Facebook neither promises anything nor educates. It is a means of communication, like having a mobile phone. Agreed, though, that parents should monitor in the same way.

Ireland has been maybe changing too fast and is finally brought back down to earth with the recession. This is one topic "Catholic schools" which I think is on the last of a long list for change in Ireland at the moment. Ireland has to rebuild so many other fractured parts of its society. I dont think it is financially viable at the moment and I doubt it will be for a long time to make huge changes to school buildings/system. We will be lucky to get enough teachers to have small classroom sizes. Having to implement a whole new structure and education system into 87% of Irish schools will cost alot and take many years I think. Especially in rural Ireland.

I disagree. All we have to do is take all Catholic references out of school names and drop religion from the curriculum. That actually seems like it would save money and improve education.

Lets take one thing at a time. I think Irish people already have enough taxes going to repay bankers/property developers which will be passed onto their children. I think the thoughts of changing the education system at the same time will cripple the country. I can imagine it would cost alot of money to retrain all the Primary school teachers...it might seem obvious just to scrap a subject, but I am sure it would be more complicated then that...involve restructuring, retraining, deciding which schools to change etc. Paying people/civil servents to decide what would be the best method to go about it etc etc. Maybe making cutbacks, people losing jobs...who knows what the full costs would involve to make such a change. Im sure when the country is up and running again there will be provisions made for a less dependent on Catholic religion schooling system.

What retraining will teachers require? If they are asked to teach one less subject, it would save time/allow them to focus on other subjects.

D4RK ONION

Ok people, I think the OP has gotten his or her answer and we can all move on. If you wish to further discuss religion, both the Atheism & Agnosticism and the Christianity forums are open to debate and discussion to all creeds.