Asked my religion in hospital

efb

Maybe he means that we are a less likely to naïvely sacrifice our life for something we don't believe in for the promise of an amazing after life full of riches- cos we know this is all we have?

terrlobe

MagicMarker wrote: »

I see, can you spell it out in English for me while you're at it?

I see, the "a la carte" bit floored you. Though French It has been in English usage since the 15th century.

Delirium

terrlobe wrote: »

Glib a la carte new age liberals conveniently disregard 2,000 years of Christian cultural identity on this island when ridiculing Catholic Ireland. The legacy of countless rebellions against religious and cultural persecution culminated in Irish independence which only an ignoramus sniffs at. Hence "a la carte": i'll pick and choose atheism because it's cool and the Catholic Church is crap. In reality they got little historical perspective, and their shallowness causes them to dirty their own nest... pitiful!

AFAIK, you're off by about 600 years with regards to Christianity and its place in Irish culture.

And being an atheist doesn't mean a person is into new age stuff (which is candles and incense from what I understand about the term), nor does it mean they are a liberal

I hope you see the irony of accusing atheists of trying to be cool when a much larger group of people are members of the RCC purely because it's popular.

efb

If I wanted 1,000 virgins I go to comicom

terrlobe

RMD wrote: »

terrlobe wrote: »

Allow me spell it out for you sir: Glib a la carte new age liberals conveniently disregard 2,000 years of Christian cultural identity on this island when ridiculing Catholic Ireland. The legacy of countless rebellions against religious and cultural persecution culminated in Irish independence which only an ignoramus sniffs at. Hence "a la carte": i'll pick and choose atheism because it's cool and the Catholic Church is crap. In reality they got little historical perspective, and their shallowness causes them to dirty their own nest... pitiful!

Religion isn't cultural identity. I might be an atheist, but I'd confidently say I'm just as "Irish" as yourself even though I'm not a Catholic. I didn't choose Atheism because it's the "cool" thing to do, I chose it because religion in general and their scriptures defy logic. It's cool if you want to stereotype though, I can throw a few your way as well ye?

Wha? Our churches and monasteries don't form the bulk of our prized cultural heritage... visiting tourists might beg to differ. Until very recently we've always been a Catholic nation. More Catholic than almost anywhere else in fact, so you can't gloss over that. The times are a changing and fads will come and go... live and let live.

swampgas

terrlobe wrote: »

Wha? Our churches and monasteries don't form the bulk of our prized cultural heritage... visiting tourists might beg to differ. Until very recently we've always been a Catholic nation. More Catholic than almost anywhere else in fact, so you can't gloss over that. The times are a changing and fads will come and go... live and let live.

So - because Ireland has been mostly catholic for over a thousand years, nobody is allowed to be an atheist? That's your argument?

You do realise that one can appreciate items of cultural heritage without believing in any of their associated religions, don't you? Or do you think you have to believe in the Egyptian gods to appreciate the pyramids?

Delirium

terrlobe wrote: »

Wha? Our churches and monasteries don't form the bulk of our prized cultural heritage... visiting tourists might beg to differ. Until very recently we've always been a Catholic nation. More Catholic than almost anywhere else in fact, so you can't gloss over that. The times are a changing and fads will come and go... live and let live.

That's incorrect, as the earliest settlements in Ireland date back to about 8000 BC. Christianity started to appear in Ireland around 600 AD. So in the history of the country it accounts for less than 20% of the cultural history of the country.

terrlobe

koth wrote: »

terrlobe wrote: »

Wha? Our churches and monasteries don't form the bulk of our prized cultural heritage... visiting tourists might beg to differ. Until very recently we've always been a Catholic nation. More Catholic than almost anywhere else in fact, so you can't gloss over that. The times are a changing and fads will come and go... live and let live.

That's incorrect, as the earliest settlements in Ireland date back to about 8000 BC. Christianity started to appear in Ireland around 600 AD. So in the history of the country it accounts for less than 20% of the cultural history of the country.

How far back do you want to go? To when mammoths or even dinasaurs roamed these parts? Our recorded history coincides with the arrival of Christian missionaries so stop confusing the issue.

FruitLover

terrlobe wrote: »

Glib a la carte new age liberals conveniently disregard 2,000 years of Christian cultural identity on this island when ridiculing Catholic Ireland.
... pitiful!

For thousands of years people believed the earth was flat. Did we 'conveniently disregard' this nonsense when we knew better? You're damn right we did. Yet you seem to think it's appropriate to believe in some dude who apparently lives in the sky because loads of other ill-educated people from bygone eras did because they didn't know any better. And atheists are pitiful? :rolleyes: I'd rather be considered 'shallow' by the likes of you than stuck in the dark ages with you.

efb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umQCgaZnO0o

Delirium

terrlobe wrote: »

How far back do you want to go? To when mammoths or even dinasaurs roamed these parts? Our recorded history coincides with the arrival of Christian missionaries so stop confusing the issue.

you're the one that made an incorrect statement. Excuse me for pointing out that Ireland has a history that extends way beyond the appearance of Christianity.

And I'm not confusing the issue, I'm addressing the issues that you yourself posted.

terrlobe

swampgas wrote: »

terrlobe wrote: »

Wha? Our churches and monasteries don't form the bulk of our prized cultural heritage... visiting tourists might beg to differ. Until very recently we've always been a Catholic nation. More Catholic than almost anywhere else in fact, so you can't gloss over that. The times are a changing and fads will come and go... live and let live.

So - because Ireland has been mostly catholic for over a thousand years, nobody is allowed to be an atheist? That's your argument?

You do realise that one can appreciate items of cultural heritage without believing in any of their associated religions, don't you? Or do you think you have to believe in the Egyptian gods to appreciate the pyramids?

Never said or insinuated any of above; just reacting to the anti Catholic bias here and in the media mocking religious sensibilities.

efb

terrlobe wrote: »

Never said or insinuated any of above; just reacting to the anti Catholic bias here and in the media mocking religious sensibilities.

if only they just showed 7th Heaven on loop..

MagicMarker

terrlobe wrote: »

How far back do you want to go? To when mammoths or even dinasaurs roamed these parts? Our recorded history coincides with the arrival of Christian missionaries so stop confusing the issue.

Recorded history typically began around 4000bc when writing was invented, is that when the Christian missionaries arrived?

terrlobe

koth wrote: »

terrlobe wrote: »

How far back do you want to go? To when mammoths or even dinasaurs roamed these parts? Our recorded history coincides with the arrival of Christian missionaries so stop confusing the issue.

you're the one that made an incorrect statement. Excuse me for pointing out that Ireland has a history that extends way beyond the appearance of Christianity.

And I'm not confusing the issue, I'm addressing the issues that you yourself posted.

Obviously! Only a pedant would take literally our cultural history to include ancient history which is as foreign to us as the Ming Dynasty nevermind that it's undocumented. We know little about pre Celtic tribes because nothing tangible remains apart from folklore and oral traditions written down by Christian monks. Apart from Newgrange, Tara, Knowth and Dowth there isn't as many historical relics remaining beyond Christianity as churches or the vestiges of Catholic Ireland's struggle.

Dades

terrlobe wrote: »

Never said or insinuated any of above; just reacting to the anti Catholic bias here and in the media mocking religious sensibilities.

Maybe if the catholic church hadn't been such an insidious, corrupt and self-serving organisation over the years, they wouldn't get such stick.

I for one couldn't care less how many catholics or churches or priests this country has as long as they let go of our schools. They can keep the Angelus.

More than happy to live and let live, but it's the church that needs to address this.

terrlobe

MagicMarker wrote: »

terrlobe wrote: »

How far back do you want to go? To when mammoths or even dinasaurs roamed these parts? Our recorded history coincides with the arrival of Christian missionaries so stop confusing the issue.

Recorded history typically began around 4000bc when writing was invented, is that when the Christian missionaries arrived?

In Ancient Greece maybe but in these islands they were less advanced and only began writing 400-500AD not 4000BC! So, Christianity spelled enlightenment.

norrie rugger

So the Greeks must abandon Christianity and start worshipping the Olympians again?

What about those pesky Romans, they had enlightenment and civilisation, while worshipping their own version of the Greek gods (with the thinking that the descendants of Troy founded Lavinium and then on to Rome)? Should they go back to worshipping Jupiter et al.?

Zombrex

terrlobe wrote: »

despise these posh atheist/agnostic a la carte types... it begs the question what would those that gave their lives for freedom in Ireland think? Like rats jumping ship... only thing is the ship remains afloat... don't get it!

A lot of people who gave their lives for Ireland were Marxists, so I'm guessing they would be all for it.

kylith

terrlobe wrote: »

In Ancient Greece maybe but in these islands they were less advanced and only began writing 400-500AD not 4000BC! So, Christianity spelled enlightenment.

I'm sorry, you're wrong. Ogham dates from Roman times, and it definitely predates any Christian movement in Ireland.

MrPudding

MagicMarker wrote: »

Congratulations, you've won the ''post that makes the least sense'' award for 2011. You'll be glad to know that this covers all posts on the internet.

Really? Ok. Who is telling Dead One he has to return the trophy?

MrP

iguana

terrlobe wrote: »

Obviously! Only a pedant would take literally our cultural history to include ancient history which is as foreign to us as the Ming Dynasty nevermind that it's undocumented. We know little about pre Celtic tribes because nothing tangible remains apart from folklore and oral traditions written down by Christian monks. Apart from Newgrange, Tara, Knowth and Dowth there isn't as many historical relics remaining beyond Christianity as churches or the vestiges of Catholic Ireland's struggle.

You're funny!:pac:

norrie rugger

Anyone want to tell him that Hyde, Parnell, Wolf Tone et al were protestants.

We do not believe in any of the fairy tales, not just the Roman story.

I would say that he is a troll but he makes too little sense to be one.

kylith

terrlobe wrote: »

Apart from Newgrange, Tara, Knowth and Dowth, numeous dolmens, hundred of passage graves, remains of settlements and crannógs, numerous finds of celtic gold hoards, bodies so well preserved in bogs that we can tell what they used to style their hair, a large amount of archaeological evidence of farming and hunting, excavated boats, evidence of pre-christian religious ceremonies, stone circles, and a rich oral tradition going back 5 millenia (and probably a lot of other stuff I've forgotten), there isn't as many historical relics remaining beyond Christianity as churches or the vestiges of Catholic Ireland's struggle.

FYP.

Have you ever been to the National History Museum? If not, I recommend you go. You'll be amazed at the amount of archaeology we have for pre-christian Ireland. History didn't start with the monks. As others have said; the country was populated for six and a half millenia before Patrick showed up with his crozier.

iguana

Y'know just the other day I was thinking about how for every Irish person named Connor, Cormac, Cathal, Finbar, Fergus, Ciarán, Cian, Oisín, Ronan, Fiachra, Deirdre, Grainne, Maebh, Niamh, Neasa or Fionnula there is at least one Irish person named Zhū Yuánzhāng, Zhū Gāochì, Zhū Qízhèn, Zhū Jiànshēn, Zhū Hòuzhào, Ren Xiao Wen, Zhao Xian, Zhao Yi, Xian Xian or Jing Zhao Shun Xian.

It just goes to show how the Ming Dynasty and pre-Christian Ireland have as much influence on modern Ireland as each other.:cool:

terrlobe

kylith wrote: »

terrlobe wrote: »

Apart from Newgrange, Tara, Knowth and Dowth, numeous dolmens, hundred of passage graves, remains of settlements and crannógs, numerous finds of celtic gold hoards, bodies so well preserved in bogs that we can tell what they used to style their hair, a large amount of archaeological evidence of farming and hunting, excavated boats, evidence of pre-christian religious ceremonies, stone circles, and a rich oral tradition going back 5 millenia (and probably a lot of other stuff I've forgotten), there isn't as many historical relics remaining beyond Christianity as churches or the vestiges of Catholic Ireland's struggle.

FYP.

Have you ever been to the National History Museum? If not, I recommend you go. You'll be amazed at the amount of archaeology we have for pre-christian Ireland. History didn't start with the monks. As others have said; the country was populated for six and a half millenia before Patrick showed up with his crozier.

Are you answering a question that wasn't asked just for the heck of it or to support your own prejudice? My general knowledge of this country's origins is better than most and doesn't require a school trip to the museum thank you very much.

I don't dispute the fact that pre-Christian hunter gatherer tribes ecked out a living here and may have carved primitive symbols in stone or sacrificed their sons and daughters to various pagan deities but i don't hear academics ever refer to any of them as a "civilisation". No matter what way you look at it they are a distant lineage and only serves to satisfy an intellectual curiousity.

Far be it from me to ram religion down anyone's throat, and a non demoninational school system would make sense, but don't go saying Christianity isn't a source of good: it shaped this country's past and present, and will still be here long after we're gone!

Sarky

terrlobe wrote: »

don't go saying Christianity isn't a source of good: it shaped this country's past and present, and will still be here long after we're gone!

The part of this post before the colon has absolutely no bearing on the part after it.

norrie rugger

terrlobe wrote: »

Are you answering a question that wasn't asked just for the heck of it or to support your own prejudice? My general knowledge of this country's origins is better than most and doesn't require a school trip to the museum thank you very much.

I don't dispute the fact that pre-Christian hunter gatherer tribes ecked out a living here and may have carved primitive symbols in stone or sacrificed their sons and daughters to various pagan deities but i don't hear academics ever refer to any of them as a "civilisation". No matter what way you look at it they are a distant lineage and only serves to satisfy an intellectual curiousity.

Far be it from me to ram religion down anyone's throat, and a non demoninational school system would make sense, but don't go saying Christianity isn't a source of good: it shaped this country's past and present, and will still be here long after we're gone!

yet you seem to ignore all the ancient religions, of civilisations past? Grecian, Roman, Myan, Aztec etc? should those countries move back to the religions that brought them civilisation?
The Irish were here before christianity and will be here after it is, rightfully, consigned to the fairytale section

Coriolanus

terrlobe wrote: »

I don't dispute the fact that pre-Christian hunter gatherer tribes ecked out a living here and may have carved primitive symbols in stone or sacrificed their sons and daughters to various pagan deities but i don't hear academics ever refer to any of them as a "civilisation".

AND they probably stole that idea from Moses. Fùckers, eh?

swampgas

terrlobe wrote: »

Far be it from me to ram religion down anyone's throat, and a non demoninational school system would make sense, but don't go saying Christianity isn't a source of good: it shaped this country's past and present, and will still be here long after we're gone!

That's contentious. Maybe Irish people themselves were the source of good? Maybe they would have done good even under a different religion, or with no religion? Maybe they would have done more good without Christianity?

Would you have an opinion on when Christianity in Ireland was most beneficial? Back in medieval times? !930s? 1950s? 1980s?