ILLEGAL HUNTING/POACHING

moby30

Just wondering if anyone is having a similar problem. im starting to see all the familiar cars and vans going around again shining lights into every gate. its the same every year. i was out saturday night and a field away i saw a vehicle pull up to the gate shine the light in and bang. dont know what they hit but they got something ( a deer most likely ). they would have seen me and realised that they were shooting in my general direction. maybe it was on purpose as i try to disrupt them as much as i can:) but its not just here in wicklow ive had it in meath dublin and kildare as well and more and more with dogs. i have come accross more than once a deer that has been mauled by dogs. everyone up here is givin out about it but nobody seems willing to try do something about it.
so im just looking for your thoughts and is it wide spread and should i just let it go and is there even anything that can be done?

juice1304

all you can do is call the cops and take down their reg.

Glensman

They may have been lamping foxes?

You can always put up some Shooting Reserved signs...

moby30

have a load of registrations but theyre not interested neither is the ranger. this will be going on for the next few months now. its the deer theyre after.
we have put up all sorts of signs but never worked either.

cavan shooter

moby30 wrote: »

have a load of registrations but theyre not interested neither is the ranger. this will be going on for the next few months now. its the deer theyre after.
we have put up all sorts of signs but never worked either.

How do you know its not lads lamping foxes or rabbits...:(,

Locally we know who lamps foxes and who doesnt, there are a number of lads that are routinely at it. Are we starting off this year again with the "he has a lamp therefore he is a poacher" approach that the IDS spouted on last year and in doing so alienated every lad that shoots foxes with a lamp. Its going to be an interesting season then.

moby30

no im not going to start saying anyone with a lamp is a poacher and DONT want to get into that. i lamp all the time myself so i would be putting myself into that category. we have a tight reign on who shoots up here and we are in regular contact so we know who is out. they have been witnessed numerous occasions particulary by the land owners. as i said it IS a problem wether that animals were shot out of season or that they are being shot without permission. it happens in broad daylight aswell. sorry if it was brought up before but im only on boards a couple of weeks and as there will be a local discussion about it shortly i thought id mention it.

booom

cavan shooter hit the nail on the head when he said 'locally'. there seems to be an unwillingness, even on the part of legit shooters to shop someone who lives locally. this could be down to any number of reasons, but my money goes on the 'i've got to live beside the w*****'. couple this with the reluctance of some land-owners to get involved in argies about who is and isn't on their land (permission or not). the 'local' politics of country living - and not just in ireland- is often the first and largest hurdle to be overcome. it's a shame a near-miss or god forbid, a serious accident has to take place before this issue goes to the authorities.

cavan shooter

booom wrote: »

cavan shooter hit the nail on the head when he said 'locally'. there seems to be an unwillingness, even on the part of legit shooters to shop someone who lives locally. this could be down to any number of reasons, but my money goes on the 'i've got to live beside the w*****'. couple this with the reluctance of some land-owners to get involved in argies about who is and isn't on their land (permission or not). the 'local' politics of country living - and not just in ireland- is often the first and largest hurdle to be overcome. it's a shame a near-miss or god forbid, a serious accident has to take place before this issue goes to the authorities.

My point is quite simple, In our patch of the country and on the patch we shoot over over a couple of parishes we know

a. The lads that lamp foxes (good ones and bad ones) and so do the farmers who's land you can shoot and who's you cant.
b. We know lads that aren't in the club and who have permission etc
c. We have 3 legit deer stalkers, who actively pursue deer in the area. If a farmer was to complain about Deer to me then its a case of I'll ring " Joe for ye and we will sort that out"
d. We know who the poachers are (Dogs on the street know them) and we have and routinely gone to the Guards about it.
e. Anyone else we see lamping (foxes) or shooting (pheasant or duck), its a roll down the window and " well lads, nice night are ye lost, can I help you" this is also done because some houses are been robbed around us day and night.

moby30

We run things very tight aswell that's how we know what is being shot and so on. You've answered some of the questions I was looking for like when you contacted the Garda. But did they act. We haven't approached them like you have so do they move on or does it get confrontational?

cavan shooter

moby30 wrote: »

We run things very tight aswell that's how we know what is being shot and so on. You've answered some of the questions I was looking for like when you contacted the Garda. But did they act. We haven't approached them like you have so do they move on or does it get confrontational?

No confrontation at all, When they reply "A just checking, couple of houses were robbed, in the area you cant be too careful, its awful what's going on" and start up a chat. If there up to something they won't hang around.

a. you can eyeball them
b. you have there make and reg of car/van

you can always call into the local barracks next day and have a chat with the "local" friendly sargeant

moby30

most of the activity happens around 1 a.m. onwards. do yous keep an eye out for it or just if someone notices something? and when you say you contact the garda did they act on anything? dont want to start something else here but a point i think was missed was that a shot was fired in my direction -irrelevent of wether it "was only lads out lamping foxes or rabbits".there is an actual and justified fear that something could happen. i know the consequences for any of us legitimate and law abiding shooters if we were caught doing anything like this thats why its so frustrating when these people can do what they like and get away with it.

garv123

moby30 wrote: »

most of the activity happens around 1 a.m. onwards. do yous keep an eye out for it or just if someone notices something? and when you say you contact the garda did they act on anything? dont want to start something else here but a point i think was missed was that a shot was fired in my direction -irrelevent of wether it "was only lads out lamping foxes or rabbits".there is an actual and justified fear that something could happen. i know the consequences for any of us legitimate and law abiding shooters if we were caught doing anything like this thats why its so frustrating when these people can do what they like and get away with it.

was it from the road/vehicle or were they in the field too?

browning 12 bore

cavan shooter wrote: »

My point is quite simple, In our patch of the country and on the patch we shoot over over a couple of parishes we know

a. The lads that lamp foxes (good ones and bad ones) and so do the farmers who's land you can shoot and who's you cant.
b. We know lads that aren't in the club and who have permission etc
c. We have 3 legit deer stalkers, who actively pursue deer in the area. If a farmer was to complain about Deer to me then its a case of I'll ring " Joe for ye and we will sort that out"
d. We know who the poachers are (Dogs on the street know them) and we have and routinely gone to the Guards about it.
e. Anyone else we see lamping (foxes) or shooting (pheasant or duck), its a roll down the window and " well lads, nice night are ye lost, can I help you" this is also done because some houses are been robbed around us day and night.

hey there fella not sure bout rolling down the window some lads can be very dangerous and especially you said robbers that is definte a no no they could be very much armed and dangerous be care ful ou there

browning 12 bore

well here we are lads you hear lads going out being a vigilant which i think is a very bad idea as this day and age lads just dont care and will do anything i even heard of one case where lads were throwing knives at car to get away so please
lads be very out there

moby30

garv123 they drove up to the gate and then shot from the passanger window into the field. i could tell it was a heavy rifle and by the smack i knew they hit something. where i was i didnt see them in the field but i could see movement in front of the lights. found blood about 30 yrds from the gate.

garv123

moby30 wrote: »

garv123 they drove up to the gate and then shot from the passanger window into the field. i could tell it was a heavy rifle and by the smack i knew they hit something. where i was i didnt see them in the field but i could see movement in front of the lights. found blood about 30 yrds from the gate.

wel thats 2 illegal things they did right there if they had the farmers permission or not

welsummer

was it your land and if not did you tell the farmer and what was his reaction.

moby30

thats the point exactly. i know its easy to say why dont we get a load of lads and approach them and that may well work but nothing is worth somebody getting hurt over it. where we are it would be so easy to catch them-we could nearly telly you the date and time it will happen. we will be meeting the local garda about it again so hopefully this time somethin can be done but i really dont see it stopping unfortunately.

moby30

it not my land i just have the shooting rights to it. all the land owners are aware of it and we are due to be having some sort of meeting about it shortly. they are saying the same as i am- what can we do.

lb1981

Glensman wrote: »

They may have been lamping foxes?

You can always put up some Shooting Reserved signs...

couldnt have been after foxes up his way he is after ****ing shooting all of them

crackcrack30

Sheet the worst gates with cheap ply 6ft high (painted green), Lock gates, place a silage Bale inside gates to prevent entry when fields are closed for winter. place rotten bale of silage on lanes to prevent entry (or exit;) with good timing), take pictures with phone ect, place bells/tin dragging the ground on gates to spook animals on opening.

What about spooking the deer??? with everyone in the know....pull up a few times at night in different spots/nights shine a light into the air and fire a shotgun ? Might help? might not?? Idont know

bazza888

is it common for people just to drive around lamping foxes on land without permission?is it not frowned upon?

staghunter

i have a feeling guards are thinking the same as alot of ye lads,why risk going out on a call about lads poaching deer at nite whats the point getting hurt over a few animals and the same with rangers.an awfull lot of these fellas that are out poaching are pure scum and i doubt they'd think twice about seriously hurting a fella.if ya can manage to routinely drive the areas you have permissions in late at nite that tends to keep the poaching down.even if your not approaching or speaking to any one

kildarejoe

That sort of carry on has messed up shooting around the area.
Poacher and gob****es out trying to lamp deer have shot an any eyes the see so a few sheep and horses and cattle have gotten shot.
So alot of people have withdrawn all permission to everyone, but as you know these sort of people dont care about permission so the only people it stops are the honest hunters.

garv123

staghunter wrote: »

i have a feeling guards are thinking the same as alot of ye lads,why risk going out on a call about lads poaching deer at nite whats the point getting hurt over a few animals and the same with rangers.an awfull lot of these fellas that are out poaching are pure scum and i doubt they'd think twice about seriously hurting a fella.if ya can manage to routinely drive the areas you have permissions in late at nite that tends to keep the poaching down.even if your not approaching or speaking to any one

i have to disagree here. A lot of fellas out poaching have deer licences and are far from what i consider "scum" and never hurt a fella in their lives.

ring 20

garv123 wrote: »

i have to disagree here. A lot of fellas out poaching have deer licences and are far from what i consider "scum" and never hurt a fella in their lives.

spot on there. hard for a scumbag to get a rifle id imagine. the other post about poachers shooting sheep cows and horses, a poacher is not a thick man, he knows what he is after. the cops must have given a rifle to some blind lad round your area. most of them stories are made up by some flute down the pub that probably never held a rifle in his life

kildarejoe

ring 20 wrote: »

spot on there. hard for a scumbag to get a rifle id imagine. the other post about poachers shooting sheep cows and horses, a poacher is not a thick man, he knows what he is after. the cops must have given a rifle to some blind lad round your area. most of them stories are made up by some flute down the pub that probably never held a rifle in his life

It goes on alot around my place.
The local knacker (animal collection) not slang for traveller, will tell you how many he collects and even more that die from infections after being shot with .22's or shotguns weeks after being shot.
I am amazed at some of the people I know with guns, I wouldent let them out with a pointy stick.

kildarejoe

By the way its not just deer that get it.
Most of the rivers and lakes around here have been cleaned of fish and swans.
Sheep go missing regularly and the odd bullock has disappeared from time to time.

ring 20

some craic trying to haul a bullock into the back of a van! tasty tho :pac:

Vizzy

kildarejoe wrote: »

It goes on alot around my place.
The local knacker (animal collection) not slang for traveller, will tell you how many he collects and even more that die from infections after being shot with .22's or shotguns weeks after being shot.
I am amazed at some of the people I know with guns, I wouldent let them out with a pointy stick.

A lot of them are not using guns either.Only tonight I was walking the dog and the brothers dog when they were chased by four lurchers while their owner looked on.
Before all the lurcher owners pounce on me these were not your "run of the mill" lurcher.Muchhh bigger !! and more vicious (cross between a lurcher and possibly wolfhound or maybe a saluki)and specifically bred for the "bigger animal".
Two shots in the air sorted it though.

Wouldn't tangle with the owners either.

kildarejoe

A greyhound crossed with a pitbull is a favourite of some of the guys that use dogs on deer around here. I know a guy who used to breed them, not your typical scumbag either, he works for the state and wears a uniform, not in the army or a postman or fireman if you get my drift.

steyrprohunter

Apparently the "new" open season for deer hunting has begun in my area too(part of wicklow)!! And once again its the same scumbag who is well known for his exploits. The cops know well what hes up to but for some strange reason he's never caught. The local rangers are terrified of him cos he has a somewhat violent reputation although never been witnessed. Drives the most obvious 4x4 and has no respect for any animal.Caught him last season lamping my grounds ut cops were too busy to call out and I couldnt block the road all night. No one in authority gives a flying **** and it'll be the same from next thurs on. Vigilantism comes to mind!!!:D:mad::mad:

baikilpm

with dogs or gun styerpro

Shoot2kill

I don't think anything can be done about it, not by the authorities anyway.. I dunno what the hell the rangers are even there for. I have reported guys for lamping & shooting deer out of season, all accompanied with names, addresses & reg numbers of there vehicles & there was fcuk all done about it.

Thank christ the new sergeant is a shooting man so fingers crossed things are going to be different this year. One farmer who gave me permission has actually put a lock on the entrance to his farm. I know this isn't always going to work as some places can be lamped from the road but I was just delighted that he is being pro-active in keeping these c#@ts out.

underthetumb

i was talkng to my local ranger last week, he was telling me they have 2 cases coming before the courts in oct, he was saying how difficult it was to catch them red handed. he was very happy with himself.

thelurcher

The BullX lurchers are bred for fox primarily.
It's not that long ago that you could run dogs on deer by day in the UK legally - they ran them with all manner of lurcher - the BullX were never that popular for it until relatively recently - it's not that difficult and you don't need what the bull adds to the mix.

Vizzy do you think Saluki's and Wolfhounds are vicious looking

Terrifying looking brute alright

steyrprohunter

Hes using both, Baikalpm, dogs for his own amusement and the gun for the financial gain of it. He's even got a "gamedealer" buying them.

moby30

That's the very same story here steyrpro. I touched on this on another thread but got no reply. How can a game dealer take anything off him? If that was stopped it would go a long way to stopping it. I know it's not that simple either but there must be some way to control it. As it stands it seems like anyone can bring anything into a game dealer with no questions asked- maybe I'm wrong. Might be a job the rangers could get involved with

moby30

What you are saying is that the game dealer is supporting illegal hunting for his own financial gain. Something wrong there.

Sparks

steyrprohunter wrote: »

No one in authority gives a flying **** and it'll be the same from next thurs on. Vigilantism comes to mind!!!:D:mad::mad:

Vigilantism is a word that people with firearms licences need to be a lot more cautious about using, IMHO...

I do find it odd though, that we see a lot of law-abiding hunters posting here about getting in-the-field visits from the Gardai very promptly when a member of the public reports seeing a man with a gun (presumably, given the average member of the public doesn't know much about firearms, such reports would be made stressing the firearm and not the activity); yet sober reports of poaching made by responsible hunters aren't followed up. You'd suspect there was some failure on the part of the Gardai to associate the use of firearms and poaching or something along those lines. I wonder if being explicit as to the use of firearms by whatever poachers are seen using them would elicit a more direct response from the Gardai?

moby30

Good point. Only one way to find out. Shouldn't take long until someone has to make the call so will be interesting to see

Cass

steyrprohunter wrote: »

No one in authority gives a flying **** and it'll be the same from next thurs on. Vigilantism comes to mind!!!:D:mad::mad:

I agree 100% with you on the fact that no-one in authority either cares or more to the point takes any pro-active steps to stomp this crap out, however as Sparks mentioned above vigilantism is not the way. I appreciate it was said half serious half tongue in cheek, but seriously lads you all know enough to understand that if you done something, even simple that as a firearm owner you would be nailed to the cross and the poacher would get away scot free, and then possibly have you in some civil action for holding someone against their will, threatening behaviour, etc, etc.

Do not do ANYTHING that would jeopardise your firearms, your finances and more to the point your freedom.


We all know how f**ked up the whle situation is. We have multiple deer associations, and before you all start i'm not taking a pop at them, but associations are of no benefit if they are powerless, not listened too, etc. Now i don;t believe associations are the solution to all the problems, but thats a debate for another thread on another day. There are no population surveys, no real enforcement of the rules/laws. No interest by the majority of the PTB such as An Gardai/DOE, etc. They call for us to be aware and report incidents then do not act when we do.

I am with you all in your outrage. I've reported a good few lads over the years and to the best of my knowledge no action has been taken even in one case where the Gardai acted promptly the lad is still shooting to this day.

You can blame the game dealers, but if they were not around poachers would simply sell it themselves. Also the word poacher conjures images of a lad with a Hornett, and no license. From what i've seen and read alot of poachers are fully licensed deer stalkers, but shoot on lands they have no permission to be on. Same thing really but the fact they are licensed deer hunters bothers me more.

If i seen someone on my land that i knew had no business being there i would take the reg, ring the Gardai telling them that men with firearms are on land they are not allowed on, ie - Trespassing (or even armed trespass although that could be a stretch), then contact the land owner and have him get down to see it, and even call the Gardai to report the trespass as it may be taken more seriously if the land owner reports it. IOW the Gardai wouldn't or couldn't view it as one hunter looking to cause trouble for another. Plus lets see a poacher try and bluff his way out if it if the land owner is there stating the poacher has no permission to be on his land.

Then we need the Gardai to act, the NPWS to act, and see real resolutions to these problems.

Anyway, we all know whats wrong and we all have our ideas as to how to resolve it, but please lads do not do anything to mess things up for yourself. For better or worse allow the Gardai/allow to deal with it.

Shoot2kill

Ezridax wrote: »

I agree 100% with you on the fact that no-one in authority either cares or more to the point takes any pro-active steps to stomp this crap out, however as Sparks mentioned above vigilantism is not the way. I appreciate it was said half serious half tongue in cheek, but seriously lads you all know enough to understand that if you done something, even simple that as a firearm owner you would be nailed to the cross and the poacher would get away scot free, and then possibly have you in some civil action for holding someone against their will, threatening behaviour, etc, etc.

Do not do ANYTHING that would jeopardise your firearms, your finances and more to the point your freedom.


We all know how f**ked up the whle situation is. We have multiple deer associations, and before you all start i'm not taking a pop at them, but associations are of no benefit if they are powerless, not listened too, etc. Now i don;t believe associations are the solution to all the problems, but thats a debate for another thread on another day. There are no population surveys, no real enforcement of the rules/laws. No interest by the majority of the PTB such as An Gardai/DOE, etc. They call for us to be aware and report incidents then do not act when we do.

I am with you all in your outrage. I've reported a good few lads over the years and to the best of my knowledge no action has been taken even in one case where the Gardai acted promptly the lad is still shooting to this day.

You can blame the game dealers, but if they were not around poachers would simply sell it themselves. Also the word poacher conjures images of a lad with a Hornett, and no license. From what i've seen and read alot of poachers are fully licensed deer stalkers, but shoot on lands they have no permission to be on. Same thing really but the fact they are licensed deer hunters bothers me more.

If i seen someone on my land that i knew had no business being there i would take the reg, ring the Gardai telling them that men with firearms are on land they are not allowed on, ie - Trespassing (or even armed trespass although that could be a stretch), then contact the land owner and have him get down to see it, and even call the Gardai to report the trespass as it may be taken more seriously if the land owner reports it. IOW the Gardai wouldn't or couldn't view it as one hunter looking to cause trouble for another. Plus lets see a poacher try and bluff his way out if it if the land owner is there stating the poacher has no permission to be on his land.

Then we need the Gardai to act, the NPWS to act, and see real resolutions to these problems.

Anyway, we all know whats wrong and we all have our ideas as to how to resolve it, but please lads do not do anything to mess things up for yourself. For better or worse allow the Gardai/allow to deal with it.

Well said. However mad I get or however hard done by I feel, I don't ever want to loose my licences all because some bolix is acting irresponsible. At the end of the day I love what I do and at the risk of sounding like a prat, I take pride in doing it right.

All I can do is ensure that the land owners who have very kindly given me permission to shoot their lands, are well aware of the dangers of having irresponsible people come on around the place. Most of them are well in tune with it and like I said previously one guy has even locked his place up. Another farmer actually confronted two guys in the dead of night out in one of his fields. Its this sort of action we need and eventually fella's will get the message, after all, the good guys out weigh the bad.

steyrprohunter

I agree with you Ezridax and I made that "Vigilante" comment halfheartedly and without meaning. I dont think anyone is that silly to jeapordise their gun permits. But its sickening to witness the carnage going on,hopefully this year everyone is fully aware of the consequences of poaching commerically and maybe they'll see some sense? And the same few that are still doing it will hopefully be caught and punished severly

Vizzy

thelurcher wrote: »

The BullX lurchers are bred for fox primarily.
It's not that long ago that you could run dogs on deer by day in the UK legally - they ran them with all manner of lurcher - the BullX were never that popular for it until relatively recently - it's not that difficult and you don't need what the bull adds to the mix.

Vizzy do you think Saluki's and Wolfhounds are vicious looking

Terrifying looking brute alright

thelurcher,
the guy above bears no resemblance to the half-breed of a half-breed that I came across.(and the dog didn't look like a saluki either).
Maybe it was the Doggy Dentures he was wearing:D

staghunter

garv123 wrote: »

i have to disagree here. A lot of fellas out poaching have deer licences and are far from what i consider "scum" and never hurt a fella in their lives.

anyone out poaching is scum in my oppinion.and when some lad thats backed into a corner an may have alot to lose you,d be amazed at how they'd react.and i know plenty of lads with deer liciences that i'd cross the road to advoid.

baikilpm

most of these lads out poaching with dogs are lads that have had there gun licence refused.. i know a few and in my oppinion have nothing to lose.. i wouldnt bother making contact with them because they are jealous pr..ks that would make sure to get you back any way they possibly could.. anyway looking at some of there dogs i think the deers around my area are safe enuogh;)... even the myxe rabbits would have a chance:D

Dupont

Vizzy wrote: »

thelurcher,
the guy above bears no resemblance to the half-breed of a half-breed that I came across.(and the dog didn't look like a saluki either).
Maybe it was the Doggy Dentures he was wearing

roflmao:D:D

323

ring 20 wrote: »

hard for a scumbag to get a rifle id imagine.

If only that were true.............

ring 20

ive never been in trouble in my life apart from telling one of my teachers at school to go .... themself, many moons ago. had to answer loads of questions when i first applied for licence and got the impression if had been a trouble maker i wouldn't have got it. maybe its easier now?

Hunter21

In my area if a person with a gun is reported to the guards for firing a gun off a road way the local guards take it very seriously, without fail they will call to your house interview you and they consider both sides of the stories and act. Usually they act with very good judgement and have suspended a nice few licences lately. The same people that were done, were well known cowboys with guns in the area.

So if you really wanted you could report them for firing off a road, its a very hard handed way of dealing with things. But if you are a responsible citizen and firearms licence holder yourself for the protection of yourself, your family other people and also your sport it is also your duty to either approach the people and warn them (which is not recommended) or go to the guards and press a statement.

You might regret it later if you didnt if one of your family is injured or killed