"Moving to London" archive thread

movingtotheuk

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I can get my hands on a UK number and i will have an address - this will create illusion to employer i am already living there.

Any point in moving over beforehand? I just have no idea where i may or may not get a job and the Great London area is frigging big!

afatbollix

I got the job before I moved over.. Rent is too much to live here with out a job I would say..

movingtotheuk

Did you not find it more difficult to apply from Ireland? The fact you were not on the ground so to speak?

Fysh

If you've got some money saved that you can live on, it's probably worth it. Aside from anything else, it both forces you to get serious about your job hunt and shows that you're serious about moving over.

Another thing that's useful is that you get a better idea of how you'd travel to and from work, which is vital (when I first moved over I interviewed for a job I was interested in, but turned down because I found out I'd have a 2-hour commute each way unless I moved to a completely different part of London).

movingtotheuk

Fysh wrote: »

If you've got some money saved that you can live on, it's probably worth it. Aside from anything else, it both forces you to get serious about your job hunt and shows that you're serious about moving over.

Another thing that's useful is that you get a better idea of how you'd travel to and from work, which is vital (when I first moved over I interviewed for a job I was interested in, but turned down because I found out I'd have a 2-hour commute each way unless I moved to a completely different part of London).

I am 100% serious! As i say i will have UK number and address - that will show employer I am living in London.

I just have no idea where i might end up working - hence i don't want to get stuck into a lease or move in anywhere.

I suppose, considering i have UK number and UK address, is there any advantage to me moving over??

m@cc@

Fysh wrote: »

Another thing that's useful is that you get a better idea of how you'd travel to and from work, which is vital (when I first moved over I interviewed for a job I was interested in, but turned down because I found out I'd have a 2-hour commute each way unless I moved to a completely different part of London).

I'd agree with this. I lived in a hostel until I found a job and then found a place once I was sorted.

Fysh

movingtotheuk wrote: »

I am 100% serious! As i say i will have UK number and address - that will show employer I am living in London.

I just have no idea where i might end up working - hence i don't want to get stuck into a lease or move in anywhere.

I think it is definitely worth it, if you've got the money to support yourself while you do it - best bet is to find short-term accommodation (whether it's a hostel or a short-term room rental is up to you) somewhere a bit outside of the city, and go from there.

Getting to interviews gives you a chance to try out the transport and figure out what your commute might be like, and you can also get started on looking around at areas you might want to live. You can probably narrow yourself down to two or three different areas by a bit of reading online (have a look at sites like www.upmystreet.co.uk for info on what different areas are like), but it's a good idea to have options if you're not sure where you might be working.

djpbarry

movingtotheuk wrote: »

I am 100% serious! As i say i will have UK number and address - that will show employer I am living in London.

Until said employer asks you to pop in for a chat at short notice.

User Friendly

Assuming you are claiming benefit here,why dont you transfer your claim to london and then look for work just an idea

movingtotheuk

djpbarry wrote: »

Until said employer asks you to pop in for a chat at short notice.

Well they are always going to give at least 24 hours notice which will be fine. I am about 5 mins from Dublin Airport.

movingtotheuk

User Friendly wrote: »

Amusing you are claiming benefit here,why dont you transfer your claim to london and then look for work just an idea

Correct. Benefit is a lot less in the UK i believe.

I am just trying to work out what is best really i suppose. I imagine give it a few weeks at home and then move over fully. In the meantime just go over for 2/3 days at a time i am thinking.

User Friendly

you can pick up cheap phones in carphone warehouse(uk) for £2/3/4 they will come with a sim,mabe virgin mobile
i have a few of them,they will get you started.

i would try tmobile on payg.

djpbarry

movingtotheuk wrote: »

Well they are always going to give at least 24 hours notice which will be fine. I am about 5 mins from Dublin Airport.

You're kidding? Flying at such short notice will cost you a fortune.

Fysh

movingtotheuk wrote: »

Well they are always going to give at least 24 hours notice which will be fine. I am about 5 mins from Dublin Airport.

24 hours notice is not fine unless you've got several hundred euro set aside for the cost of flying over, getting to your interview, then coming straight back. If you're lucky, you might be able to line up several interviews for 2-3 days in a row, at which point you'd be paying for accommodation, travel, and communication. I'd say you're looking at spending at least €300 per trip, and probably more like €600 for a 2-3 day trip over.

If you've got enough money to do that several times, why not just bite the bullet and make arrangements to move over for a month? Get yourself some cheap short-term accommodation and go into full-on jobhunt mode. If you're living here you can cram in more interviews per day, and you can go into temping agencies as well to see if short-term work is available to tide you over.

movingtotheuk

Fysh wrote: »

24 hours notice is not fine unless you've got several hundred euro set aside for the cost of flying over, getting to your interview, then coming straight back. If you're lucky, you might be able to line up several interviews for 2-3 days in a row, at which point you'd be paying for accommodation, travel, and communication. I'd say you're looking at spending at least €300 per trip, and probably more like €600 for a 2-3 day trip over.

If you've got enough money to do that several times, why not just bite the bullet and make arrangements to move over for a month? Get yourself some cheap short-term accommodation and go into full-on jobhunt mode. If you're living here you can cram in more interviews per day, and you can go into temping agencies as well to see if short-term work is available to tide you over.

Good points - i suppose i am just trying to figure what is best.

Might be best just to bite the bullet and head fully over. My biggest issue is finding a place to live and then getting a job which is incredibly far away.

I am just getting back from Sydney so the prospect of launching myself into a new city is not too appealing. You know yourself - finding your way around, finding your best supermarket, etc. I feel like I've just done that in Sydney!

lima

It's important to know that you usually have to commit to at least 6 months when you are renting a place. So you'd have to stay in a hotel or hostel. I can imagine that unless you are <24 the hostels would get annoying!

User Friendly

lima wrote: »

It's important to know that you usually have to commit to at least 6 months when you are renting a place. So you'd have to stay in a hotel or hostel. I can imagine that unless you are <24 the hostels would get annoying!

What?:eek:

if someone rents a room in a house your saying he must commit for at least 6 months?? this is simply not the case at all.

Fysh

User Friendly wrote: »

What?:eek:

if someone rents a room in a house your saying he must commit for at least 6 months?? this is simply not the case at all.

It depends on whether you're renting direct from a landlord/agency (where even a short-term lease will normally involve a 12-month contract with a 6-month break clause) or whether you're looking to rent a room in a shared house (where you usually just pay the deposit of the person you're replacing and take over their share of the rent).

Of course, this neglects the existence of short-term rentals, which is what we used when we moved over in 2007. Best way to go, I reckon - hostels can be a pain in the arse if you're staying more than a few days, and you're better off having a bit of space to yourself if you can get it.

User Friendly

OP


if your looking for a room to rent,without any contract and obligations,pm me and i will get you some numbers.

i guess that settles that.

breadmonkey

And you can always catch a ferry/train for about £30 at very short notice.

djpbarry

breadmonkey wrote: »

And you can always catch a ferry/train for about £30 at very short notice.

True - I've done it myself and it was fine, but I wouldn't want to be doing it on a regular basis.

lima

User Friendly wrote: »

What?:eek:

if someone rents a room in a house your saying he must commit for at least 6 months?? this is simply not the case at all.

This IS the normal case, you can't just say it's not without explaining why you think it's not, it's counterproductive!

If you sign a lease, directly from a landlord through a letting agency, it will be a 12 month lease with a 6 month break clause, 99% of the time.

If you go on gumtree or spareroom or whatever, in MOST cases the person advertising the room will be looking for someone for at least 6 months. In the minority of situations the person might be looking for someone to take over his/her name on the lease up until the lease finishes, which may be in 2 or 3 months time for example.

If a person owns a flat and wants to just let out a spare room, they will usually want you to sign a lease. Now, if this person wants to use your rent to pay towards the mortgage, then they will want you for at least 6 months, as having people moving in and out can be a pain. Which is why most rooms you see available will be for at least 6 months.

The reason I know this is that I have been living here since 2004 and I have lived in 6 different places. The last place I lived in I was only looking for a 3 month let, so luckily I found a girl who owned a flat who was looking for someone for only 3 months, for her own personal reasons. But this flat took me 3 weeks to find, and was £250 a week, so don't expect to just ring up and find a place where you only have to give 1 months notice. This is London.

breadmonkey

lima wrote: »

This IS the normal case, you can't just say it's not without explaining why you think it's not, it's counterproductive!

If you sign a lease, directly from a landlord through a letting agency, it will be a 12 month lease with a 6 month break clause, 99% of the time.

If you go on gumtree or spareroom or whatever, in MOST cases the person advertising the room will be looking for someone for at least 6 months. In the minority of situations the person might be looking for someone to take over his/her name on the lease up until the lease finishes, which may be in 2 or 3 months time for example.

If a person owns a flat and wants to just let out a spare room, they will usually want you to sign a lease. Now, if this person wants to use your rent to pay towards the mortgage, then they will want you for at least 6 months, as having people moving in and out can be a pain. Which is why most rooms you see available will be for at least 6 months.

The reason I know this is that I have been living here since 2004 and I have lived in 6 different places. The last place I lived in I was only looking for a 3 month let, so luckily I found a girl who owned a flat who was looking for someone for only 3 months, for her own personal reasons. But this flat took me 3 weeks to find, and was £250 a week, so don't expect to just ring up and find a place where you only have to give 1 months notice. This is London.

Agree 100%

lima

Coincidentally I have an en-suite room available from 26th June until end of Sept. (and possible longer if you want to sign a new lease), in Clapham in a 3br flat, pme me if interested.. £550pm

User Friendly

lima wrote: »

This IS the normal case, you can't just say it's not without explaining why you think it's not, it's counterproductive!



The reason I know this is that I have been living here since 2004 and I have lived in 6 different places.

I have given the opening poster an option to contact me via pm if they want a room in a house without all the hassle of contacts etc! the only thing needed from the poster will be 2weeks deposit and 1 weeks rent in advance,that will be in 1 property in Ruislip,west london.If you feel you can help the opening poster,a fellow irishman,then you go for it!

Please dont tell me what is normal against what works in London.

By the way,youve been living in London since 2004 when i arrived in London,Big Ben was only a watch!:p

ztoical

User Friendly wrote: »

By the way,youve been living in London since 2004 when i arrived in London,Big Ben was only a watch!:p

Any half decent londener knows big Ben is the bell, only tourists think it's the clock :P

Mc Kenzie

Im moving to london in a month new life new start. Imhoping to find any sorta job whenim over to start off with . Im staying with relatives.

Any1 any tipps ?????:)

Scarinae

What sort of tips are you looking for - where to live? Where to look for work?

My general tip would be to apply for a National Insurance Number once you've arrived, you'll need to arrange an interview at a Jobcentre Plus - if you're staying with relatives, use their address. Once you have a NI number you won't have to pay emergency tax, so getting it sorted quickly is a good thing.

harney

Get a bank account sorted asap!

philologos

I don't know if this is the best forum for this but I'm going to be moving somewhere in the London area in August for work and I'm just wondering about some of the practicalities of moving.

1) National Insurance Number - Will I be able to make any progress in applying for this before I arrive in the UK?

2) Bank account - I'm thinking of setting up a new bank account in Northern Ireland before I come over. Are there any branches that are good in particular if one wanted to use them from the UK mainland?

3) Is there anything else I need to do to register my residence in the UK or is that done automatically?

4) Is there anything I need to do before I leave on the Irish side?

Much thanks for your time
philologos

Seeorr

Not sure about the other Q's but it is worth registering with a local GP as soon as you find a place to stay. You will have trouble getting an appointment or anythign out of the NHS without doing this.

questionmark?

1. I'm afraid you will have to be over there before you can apply for your national insurance number. Just get this done as quickly as possiable as it makes your life easier tbh.

2. In regards to banks. Your going to need something official to prove your address with an option here is to ask you bank in Ireland to send a statement to your new address in the UK and use this along with your Passport.

3. No nothing else really but they do love their credit and security checks in the UK so be prepared for some before you start work. Also remember your addresses that you have lived in for the last three years or so you will be asked for different reasons i.e. bank account app form, jobs etc...

4. Just be prepared for a higher level of taxation such as in London with its high council tax rates. Do your research google is your friend. Best of luck OP. It is fun over here but be warned there aint nobody like the Irish but they aint that bad

Jack B. Badd

Do you have any relatives or friends over here that you could register your address with(for NI number, bank accounts, etc) to get the ball rolling before you move? Even just to get application forms, etc sent to?

philologos

^^ In Britain (outside of London) and Northern Ireland. I was thinking of ringing one of the jobs and benefits offices in Northern Ireland with proof of employment but I suspect that won't be enough.

Edit: Is it not possible to set up a bank account in Northern Ireland with an address in the Republic and then use this account while in the UK?

Mc Kenzie

Its getting close now to when im leaving,iv been thinking about it so long i think iv made it feel like an idea more then a reality. im getting nervous. I know its not a trillion miles away just i whenever i lived away for college or work i cud go home every wkend or sec weekend.......neves. but excitement too. its sad to leave home too but i have to do this.

I was born there so should be ok with my certs to sort Insurance no ect!

who the fug

Bank account

Halifax have a basic account which you don't have to jump through hoops to get

philologos

who the fug wrote: »

Bank account

Halifax have a basic account which you don't have to jump through hoops to get

Assuming I have proof of UK employment (Training agreement / Contract and acceptance letter), passport, and a utility bill I should be able to register an account with them in Northern Ireland (say Halifax in Newry?) before I head over at the end of August?

who the fug

philologos wrote: »

Assuming I have proof of UK employment (Training agreement / Contract and acceptance letter), passport, and a utility bill I should be able to register an account with them in Northern Ireland (say Halifax in Newry?) before I head over at the end of August?

Re Halifax Newry

If you can drop in and ask them?

If they say no work on a week to 10 days for getting an account set up when you come over

Louis Lane 6

User Friendly wrote: »

OP


if your looking for a room to rent,without any contract and obligations,pm me and i will get you some numbers.

i guess that settles that.

Hi, I have tried to pm you but the pm function when I try to use it is not working? Would you be able to pm me some of them :-) Thanks

Fysh

Louis Lane 6 wrote: »

Hi, I have tried to pm you but the pm function when I try to use it is not working? Would you be able to pm me some of them :-) Thanks

Use of the PM function is limited until you hit a certain post count, to prevent it being abused by automated spambots.

On a more general note, I'm a little bit concerned at the way this thread is shifting from advice to promotion. Please stick to providing links to external sites that people can use to look for accommodation rather than PMing info individually. If you've got a place of your own available either put the details online on somewhere like gumtree and link to the ad, or stick a brief description in your signature.

User Friendly

Fysh wrote: »

On a more general note, I'm a little bit concerned at the way this thread is shifting from advice to promotion.

:eek:

@ Louis i'll get back to you in a few days with some numbers.:)

notwise

Hi!
My boyfriend and I moved to London in January this year. We are living in an apartment in East London and to save money we're thinking now that we are going to try and find a house/flat share with others.
Finding it quite difficult to find somewhere that couples are welcome though!
So what are the best areas to live, my boyfriend works in west London and im in college in East London so i suppose somewhere relatively in the middle would be good. I heard Clapham is good for Irish, we want somewhere that has good bars and shops etc in the area (something that's really lacking where we are in the east)
So any advice on how to find a good house share where couples are welcome, better still anyone know of a house share coming up around August?

dubh laoch

Hi all,

I'm currently working in America on a one year long J1IWT Visa. I've been here for 8 months now. I'm looking to find a job and move to London in September. I want to avoid moving back to Dublin at all costs cos it just seems to be constant depression over there in the media and everywhere else.

So as to avoid the doom and gloom back home I'm looking for advice from people who have made successful moves to London. In particular I'm wondering about the jobs market over there. I graduated from DIT with a business degree in 2010 and have 6 months banking experience from my current job.

So I have three questions:

1:I was wondering has anyone managed to sort themselves out with a job before actually moving over to London and how did you do this (what job sites etc)?

2: Should I move over to find accommodation or is it possible to set something up for myself with from here in the States?

3: With savings of 1600 dollars I'll only have 1000 pounds to work with for when I land in London. Is it possible to survive on this for a month factoring in rent, food, travel on public transport or am I living in la la land by even thinking that might be enough?

Fysh

I'll be honest, the first thought I had was that £1K is going to be very very tight - I moved over here with my GF about 4 years ago and we had about €5000 each for the move.

Now, you might be able to scrape by with that much - but you'd be dependent on finding very cheap accommodation ahead of arriving, and basically taking any job you could find in the short term to pay your way while you look for something using your degree & experience. Bear in mind that with an Oyster card you're still looking at between £1.90 and £2.50 per journey within central-ish London. I commute by tube & overground and spend ~£100 a month on travel, for example. Buses are cheaper but slower. You can feed yourself for less than £50 a week if you're smart and have access to a kitchen for cooking. Where you might hit problems is with paying deposits for accommodation, though it depends on what you're looking for and where.

If you're looking to get a job lined up before you move over and you've got some experience in banking, I think your best bet would be to contact the HR/recruitment teams at UK banks directly and see if they have any openings, graduate schemes or internship-type positions available.

getz

dubh laoch wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm currently working in America on a one year long J1IWT Visa. I've been here for 8 months now. I'm looking to find a job and move to London in September. I want to avoid moving back to Dublin at all costs cos it just seems to be constant depression over there in the media and everywhere else.

So as to avoid the doom and gloom back home I'm looking for advice from people who have made successful moves to London. In particular I'm wondering about the jobs market over there. I graduated from DIT with a business degree in 2010 and have 6 months banking experience from my current job.

So I have three questions:

1:I was wondering has anyone managed to sort themselves out with a job before actually moving over to London and how did you do this (what job sites etc)?

2: Should I move over to find accommodation or is it possible to set something up for myself with from here in the States?

3: With savings of 1600 dollars I'll only have 1000 pounds to work with for when I land in London. Is it possible to survive on this for a month factoring in rent, food, travel on public transport or am I living in la la land by even thinking that might be enough?

there are two irish newspapers published in england,both have a help section for irish people coming to live and work in the UK,worth looking up the web site,the papers are ,the irish post,and the irish world,

Monkey61

Hello,

I experienced similar trouble a few years ago in London looking for house shares that would take couples. It was bloody impossible!! My advice would be to ask around as much as you possibly can, at college, at work etc and try to figure out if anyone you know might know someone.

Whereabouts East are you at the moment? What is the nearest tube/train to your college and also to your boyfriends work? If you are commuting, as I am sure you know, convenience will be very important. And also what would be your ideal budget? I used to live in Clapham, a couple of okay pubs, a very middle-class and settled young family/professional type vibe - so it really depends what you are into whether you will like it or not. Not bad for shops (but again it depends what kind of shops you are after). It has a lot going for it, but I am not sure if I would live there again.

As an alternative to finding a room for couples, would you consider renting a place out yourself and then finding people to fill the room(s)? Do you know anybody that will be looking to move then?

dubh laoch

Hi Fysh and getz,

Thanks for the replies!

Yeah I suppose being realistic you need more than 1000 pounds to get yourself started in any city. As a matter of interest Fysh how long did that 5K last you when you did get over?

I'm realistically thinking that it would take me around a month or two to to settle in and find a job and maybe I'm being a bit optimistic with that estimation so I know 1k isn't gonna be enough for more than a few weeks.

I'm going to check out those websites now getz so thanks for the information. I have started applying to Reed.co.uk but I have a feeling that once they see my current address is in the states my CV goes straight in the bin. Anyway if anyone has any more website suggestions they'd be much appreciated. Thanks again!

dubh

clairebear87

Hello all,
I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on where to live. I have just accepted a job in Harrow, northwest London and I'm looking to live somewhere close enough to commute to this area by car (would prefer as reasonable a commute as possible). I've spent the last year living in Surrey (which was very quiet), so am looking to move to a place that is inhabited by young professionals similar in age to myself (I'm 24). If any area also contained a little pocket of Irish folk that would be a bonus.

Any advice would help-as I don't know the area that well (and never envisaged myself moving to London). Thanks.

TheNibbler

Kilburn could be a possibility. It's in North West London (albeit still pretty central). Big Irish community there and always seemed like a nice area to me.

Country lane

Thought id add this Irish times article as some good points and insights on Irish coming to London in recent times.

FRESH FROM DEFEATING Fermanagh in the All-Ireland Football Championship two weeks ago, London’s GAA team will tonight take the field in Ruislip, west London, against Waterford, perhaps without dreams of September glory, but with dreams nevertheless.
In years past, London exited the All-Ireland early and little noticed. Even home games in Ruislip were away games in reality because the crowd would be made up of Irish emigrants cheering for their home counties, ones that in many cases they had left decades before.
Six weeks ago, London gave Mayo a serious scare before losing out in extra time. In early June London’s hurlers beat Louth, before the footballers returned to the stage on June 25th to beat Fermanagh by six points, though it could easily have been more.
“London now has a fan club of its own. The last time London won a competitive championship game was in 1977,” says one of the team’s selectors, Aiden Thompson, who is from Ballyforan, Co Roscommon, but who has lived in London for more than two decades.
“Once upon a time,” says London GAA’s chairman, Tommy Harrell, “you’d have 26 on a panel and the next time 20 would be gone. That is not happening now; the same volume is not disappearing. A lot of them are staying because there is nothing to go back to.”
London GAA clubs still organise accommodation and jobs for players, but for far fewer of them than in the past, partly because unskilled labouring jobs, due to the influx of cheaper eastern European labour and problems in the construction industry, are harder to come by.
More importantly, the majority of Irish emigrants are not looking for labouring jobs, nor would they take one if offered. The new generation is more likely to be found behind a desk in the City of London rather than on a building site.
Unlike other clubs based well away from the city centre, such as Greenford in west London or Neasden in north London, the Fulham Irish GAA team, formed in 2006, plays on a pitch in Hurlingham Park in leafy SW6, the location for Monty Python’s famous Upper-Class Twit of the Year sketch. Most of Fulham Irish’s players work in the City, which is less than half an hour away on the Tube. The turnover of players is high, not because people are returning to Ireland but, rather, because they head “to New York, or Singapore”, according to club official Liam Barry, originally from Abbeyfeale, Co Limerick.
Fulham does not generally offer accommodation and jobs to attract players. “Nearly all of our players look after themselves,” says Barry. “And that is the way that we like it. It just causes problems if one guy is given a job and another guy is not.”
In recent months, Barry says, he has seen an influx of unskilled Irish. “Some of them say, ‘If you get us a job, we’ll come play for you.’ But even if we did want to do so, we wouldn’t be able, because we haven’t got the links with the construction industry that others do.”
Established just six months ago, Éire Óg, which trains and plays at Finsbury Park in North London, already has a panel of 40 players, including “two actors, tradesmen, a solicitor and an astronomer”, says Conor McGinn, who says the club uses Facebook and Twitter to attract members: “The old structures in the Irish community don’t work with the new arrivals; you have to use new models of getting in touch with people.”
THE LONDON IRISH CENTRE in Camden is currently researching the changes in the Irish community. Preliminary findings show that three out of every four new arrivals in the past year are in full-time or part-time work.
“It appears that the new wave of Irish arriving in London are better equipped: 18 per cent of respondents are in London to pursue educational opportunities, while 13 per cent have found themselves unemployed,” says the centre’s Jeff Moore.
The youngest new emigrant found for the research so far is aged 19, the oldest 44, but the majority, 54 per cent, are aged between 25 and 30. One in five of those surveyed were born in 1986, according to Moore.
Unlike some past waves of emigration, Dublin is heavily represented among the new emigrants. Jonathan Cloonan, originally from Castleknock in Dublin, who has been living in London since September, says: “The old gang in Dublin are not there any more. The reality is that people are in four places: London, New York, Toronto or Sydney.”
Besides being less focused on construction, the latest emigrants are more diverse in other respects too: the GAA is important for some, but not all; the old Irish ghettoes of Kilburn and Cricklewood are no more, though new, less fixed ones are emerging in Clapham and elsewhere. Most importantly, social-media networks, and cheaper flights (even if they have to be booked significantly in advance), have fundamentally changed both the perception and the reality of emigration.
Last year’s Icelandic ash cloud temporarily highlighted the distance.
“That was the first time I felt far from home,” says Dubliner Mary-Clare Connellan, pointing out that she had previously thought little of flying back to Dublin for less than 12 hours for a farewell family dinner before her brother left for Korea.
In London since January, Eamon FitzGerald, from Dalkey, Co Dublin, who left a job with Accenture in Dublin to focus on finding work in the wine trade, says Twitter is having an impact even on the Irish pub scene.
“For our demographic the pub is dying out. Even five years ago your first stop anywhere would have been an Irish pub because you’d find someone who’d help you out. I actively stay away from them, unless there is a rugby game on. There is so much more to do in London.”
Not all the Irish, however, agree, judging by a late-night walk in Clapham, where pubs and clubs such as the Inferno, the Grand, the Alex, and the Clapham Inn echo with Irish voices. Meanwhile, the Swan in nearby Stockwell, a magnet for Irish emigrants during the 1980s, is still filled with GAA jerseys.
For publican Gerry O’Boyle, a Sligo man who owns the Boogaloo in Islington, the size of the crowds attending his Sunday-night trad session is evidence that the Irish still need to congregate. “But they are very different from years ago,” he says. “The siege mentality is gone. They are very independent but very conscious that they are Irish. The recent Feis in Finsbury in mid-June was a big pull. We had a ticket competition and we were swamped with applications.”
The official and unofficial ties that bind the Irish community are crucial, according to Martina O’Sullivan, from Clogheen, Co Tipperary.
“There is definitely a really strong Irish network in London – that’s how I found my first flat and my break into publishing. I’ve got loads of Irish friends from all around the country, and it really helps with the homesickness to have that connection (and a bit of banter about the hurling). Most of my Irish friends live in the Elephant and Castle/Kennington area, but I think that’s just because I used to live there.
“I don’t get the sense that people are moving to one particular area any more, like they might have to somewhere like Kilburn before. It feels much more like we’re part of the whole city rather than just concentrated in one bit.”
Judging by the growing success of the Irish International Business Network, the London Irish Business Society and other similar organisations, it would appear that carefully planned networking, rather than more casual contacts made elsewhere, is now increasingly important for the Irish.
“You don’t feel bad saying ‘I want to get to know you, I want to network you, I want to see if there is something that I can do at some point in our lives to help each other out’,” says Jill Tully from Clontarf, Dublin, who works with the London division of IHS business analysts. “Now we are starting to understand that we should be giving praise to everybody if they achieve success, if they set up a business or set up a wine blog. Give credit when credit is due, rather than trying to get the better of each other.”
Besides being a place to socialise, Clapham is home to large numbers of recently arrived Irish. “It is often joked about as Little Ireland, or there is Angel , so it is very much about whether you want to go north or south of the river,” Tully says.
Another Dubliner, Claire O’Reilly, who moved to London last year after two years in Birmingham, started off in Clapham because it would be “a nice, comfortable place” before moving to Borough. “Once you’re here for more than a year you get to know the city a bit better,” she says.
Others, particularly those involved in creative industries such as advertising and publishing, have moved to Dalston, in Hackney. “It has a different vibe to it. I was very surprised to find so many Irish accents around there,” says Cloonan.
If there is a desire to network furiously, there is no desire to live in ghettoes. Instead, the new wave declares its desire to absorb all that London has to offer, says Mary-Clare Connellan, who recently founded glaslondon.com, a website for new arrivals.
Fresh from covering Shubbak, London’s Arab summer festival, Connellan says her website, which proclaims that “far from crying into our (badly poured) Guinness and reminiscing about home, we’re excited to be here”, is getting 200 hits a day and counting.
“Every day the numbers are building, though the part of the site that offers advice to people who are thinking of coming here is the busiest bit. But our focus is on telling the Irish community what it can do outside of the Irish community,” she says.
For the majority of the new London Irish, the Troubles are history. Relations with Britain are viewed through the prism of Queen Elizabeth II’s visit to Ireland rather than through Bloody Sunday or other such memories. “I came straight from New York, where being Irish is an incredible asset,” says Cloonan. “Coming from there, I was very conscious that the same welcome might not be here for me. I have been really pleasantly surprised. I have been welcomed everywhere, even by English people in the street who have been excited to talk to someone from Ireland about their perceptions of what is going on at home and about the Irish that they have met.”
During the days of the royal visit and afterwards, Tully, like others, was struck by the British surprise at the welcome given to the queen, and by the impact of her visit on Irish public opinion. “They had always just assumed that it wouldn’t mean anything to us,” she says.
However, as The Irish Times sits in an office in the City with Tully and others, history intrudes as they become animated while discussing the bomb scares that occurred in London on the eve of the queen’s visit.
“I got the e-mails saying to stay off the Tube. Getting on the Tube that day – I had to go from London Bridge to Angel – was really scary,” says FitzGerald. “That was a glimpse of what our previous generation had to put up with every day.”
“It was horrible sitting in an office, and you did suddenly feel that you were getting stared at, even though we didn’t get any negative comment,” Tully says. “All of the Irish were going, ‘Are you serious? We didn’t want anything to happen.’ So were the British.”
Echoes of the past are visible, though, for those Irish who want to look. Living in West Hampstead, on the edge of Kilburn, Eamon FitzGerald is now wine-development manager for the online retailer Naked Wines. “A walk down Kilburn High Street is quite upsetting,” he says. “At any point in the day where you see the pubs open early, you’ll see old people standing outside, lonely, with cans or pints in their hands. It is a real stark reminder about the community that did come before us.
“It serves as a reminder that we do like a drink but that these people have gone too far and that many are gone beyond saving. Kilburn is predominantly black and Asian, so anyone who is old and white is Irish.”
Many of those now lost in a Kilburn netherworld of alcohol came in the 1950s and 1960s to do labouring jobs. They lacked education or prospects, and now face an old age of poverty, having never made national-insurance payments, let alone saved for a private pension.
Today’s unskilled Irish workers can hope to escape the alcohol, but Tom Kelly of the GMB trade union warns that “day rates have fallen, and it is not unusual to find them on the minimum wage, or near it, when four years ago they would have been on £10 an hour”. Craftsmen’s rates have fallen by 50 per cent, while surveyors, whether British or not, are struggling in an industry where fees have dropped sharply and the time given to complete projects has halved.
In recent years British and Irish labourers have lost out to competition from cheaper eastern European workers. Many of these have “now gone home”, according to Kelly, but rates have remained the same. “If you get wages down so low, then it makes sense – for language reasons, if nothing else – to hire English speakers.” However, he adds, “there don’t appear to be the same numbers coming from Ireland for the buildings that I would have expected, to be honest. It is not like the massive emigration of the 1950s, though Irish companies will hire Irish craftsmen if they can.”
Construction workers who have got jobs want to stay in work, he says. “People are keeping their heads down. There are less disciplinary cases, less inquiries to the union. People are knuckling down, not challenging things.”
Another union official, Jerry Swain, London regional secretary of the Union of Construction, Allied Trades and Technicians (Ucatt), agrees that there is no mass influx. “Construction in London remains stagnant, so there has not been an opportunity for any large increase of any nationality into the industry,” he says.
However, despite the fact that most of the work for the 2012 Olympics is finished, or nearly finished, Swain believes that construction will pick up. “The industry in the capital is likely to see expansion in the next 12 months and this may well lead to a noticeable increase in Irish workers,” he says.
The Unite trade union is already seeing evidence of a greater Irish presence in construction, particularly among contractors. “Often these contractors are bidding low to undercut local contractors, which is causing an issue for London employers,” says an official. Some British companies are struggling as a result.“This is, and has been, having a knock-on effect in terms of redundancy situations. In saying this, it would be totally unfair to apportion all the blame to Irish contractors. There are foreign and even UK contractors that cause concern with regard to their employment practices, which is an ongoing challenge for trade unions.”
Such problems are hard to deal with at the moment because “workers at difficult times tend to accept less”. However, Unite is at pains to emphasise that it has not noticed “any ill-feeling towards our brothers and sisters from the Emerald Isle” among British building workers. Nevertheless, competition is competition.
Conor Connelly, from Renvyle, Co Galway Having joined Tir Chonaill Gaels shortly after his arrival three years ago, Connelly says the association’s network has helped to get many accommodation in their first weeks in the city, and jobs for some.
“You’ll find Irish engineers, quantity surveyors on every building site in London. Carpenters, too, even some labourers,” he says. However, many do not stay long, with many drifting off to Australia and Canada.
The old gang in Dublin are not there any more. The reality is that people are in four places: London, New York, Toronto or Sydney
Martina O’Sullivan, 28, from Clogheen, Co Tipperary
In London since March 2007, O’Sullivan says: “I’ve definitely been the happiest I’ve ever been since I moved here. It can be a bit stressful but I think most of the stress has been about commuting.
“It certainly can be hard to make friends but I think the key to settling in here is just being as active as possible and being willing to try new things.
Working in publishing, O’Sullivan intends to return to Ireland but, “the time frame for this seems to be getting longer and longer. I’d say most of my Irish friends here plan to move home within the next five years.
“The general consensus is that it’s fantastic when you’re young but no place to grow old. This really is the greatest city on earth and I don’t believe that the opportunities we’ve had here both career- and lifestyle-wise could be beaten anywhere else.”
Claire O’Reilly, 25, from Dublin
O’Reilly moved to London last year after two years in Birmingham. She started off in Clapham because it wou ld be “a nice, comfortable place” before moving to Borough.
“Once you’re here for more than a year you get to know the city a bit better,” she says.
Eamon FitzGerald, 26, from Dalkey, Dublin
In London since January, Fitzgerald left a job with Accenture to follow his interest in wine, but life outside Ireland also means that everyday conversation is not consumed by talk of the Irish economic collapse.
“I think you are allowed to escape that over here. It is not on everybody’s lips like it is at home, so you are not forced to have an opinion it. It doesn’t really come up at all.”
Jill Tully, 28, from Clontarf, Dublin
A four-year veteran, Tully says: “There are so many Irish people over here at the moment that it would be easy to stay in the Irish network and just be living in a little Dublin within London.
“If you make a very conscious effort to get to know other people then you’ll quickly find that you have 50 per cent Irish friends and 50 per cent internationals. You’ll have a much broader base and it helps you to feel much more settled.”
Jonathan Cloonan, 25, From Castleknock in Dublin
Cloonan is one of the transient Irish. In London since September working with advertising giant WPP for a year, he moves to one of its Chinese offices next year, before a later transfer to the United States.
Like others, he travels home frequently, but says: “The old gang in Dublin are not there anymore. I went home a few months ago and the reality is that people are in four places: London, New York, Toronto or they have gone to Sydney.
“There are some in Dublin, but the majority are gone – with the intention of coming back, but as you build relationships and become part of the fabric, you never know.”

cupan

I think Camden with its young trendy population would suit you better, I am in Kilburn and to be honest I see very few irish people. Bear in mind that the closer you get to the city the more you pay for accommodation. One bed room flats in Kilburn can cost up to £300 + per week