Get rid of the angelus?

ScumLord

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Sure, but science is unlikely to discover either eternal life or the secrets of the afterlife,

Not exactly true, some reckon the first thousand year old human has already been born. The possibilities of science are truly limitless, every time we over come one hurdle it just shows the direction to another grander hurdle. Science in a way is bringing the god we imagine into the real world.

Freddie59 wrote: »

This would be the Science that preaches that there was nothing; then there was everything - and nobody did it?:p

Oh - I forgot. They're now claiming that the Universe was originally 45cm long............:rolleyes:

No this is the science that has you sitting in front of a computer impossible to imagine 100 years ago, that makes your clothes cheap, that brings you to and from work and on far flung holidays. You live science everyday.

Paparazzo wrote: »

They should red button it. If rte knew exactly how many people would actually press a button to watch it by choice it would be gone in a flash.

Irish way - "nobodies watching it!" -- "Force the cnuts!"

hotmail.com wrote: »

All that quote shows is that the writers of the constitution were religious and believed in a god. As were some of the writers of the US constitution. It does not specify any preference for one religion and the part that mentioned giving the Catholic religion a "special position" was removed in a 1969 referendum.

I thought many of the USA founding fathers where very opposed to religion?

hotmail.com

ScumLord wrote: »

I thought many of the USA founding fathers where very opposed to religion?

Some of them were athiests, some were believers and some were deiests. There is a popular myth in America that all were strong believers, that's not the case at all.

mossyc123

hotmail.com wrote: »

Wolfe Tone's interpretation of a republic. And many many others.

The consequence of everyone being treated equally is that there is no monarchy.

Edit: do you actually want states to give preference to the religion of the majority??

That interpretation was made at a time when only a few wealthy land owning Catholics could vote.

Religious equality was a real issue back then.

Edit: No, I just don't want the State try and reshape the Cultural traditions of society in the name of "progress" and "inclusiveness".

A foreigner coming to Ireland today would have no clue that the broadcasts of The Angelus or A Prayer at Bedtime was a Catholic tradition.

Jimoslimos

Not concerned, although when internet control and censorship gets so bad that everyone's browser is hijacked at 6:00pm every day and its forced upon us I may then form a stronger opinion.

housetypeb

Would god be pissed off if catholics didn't bless themselves every day at 6 o clock on the dot?

fontanalis

hotmail.com wrote: »

Some of them were athiests, some were believers and some were deiests. There is a popular myth in America that all were strong believers, that's not the case at all.

Their beliefs are irrelevant. Just the role they expected religion to play in government.

mossyc123

ScumLord wrote: »

I thought many of the USA founding fathers where very opposed to religion?

They were opposed to the idea of Religion being used as a tool to oppress,divide, cause civil strife and war.

They were all Christians (Church of England/Episcopalian, Presbyterians,Catholics, Lutherans and Methodists)

Many of the 1st Americans had fled religious persucution in Europe and as a result freedom of Religion was and still is a cornerstone of American Society.

ScumLord

mossyc123 wrote: »

They were opposed to the idea of Religion being used as a tool to oppress,divide, cause civil strife and war.

They were all Christians (Church of England/Episcopalian, Presbyterians,Catholics, Lutherans and Methodists)

Many of the 1st Americans had fled religious persucution in Europe and as a result freedom of Religion was and still is a cornerstone of American Society.

I had been sure they weren't Christian at all but turns out some were Deists. Other quotes from others show they weren't very Christian and saw it's flaws. http://www.skeptically.org/thinkersonreligion/id9.html

fontanalis

ScumLord wrote: »

I had been sure they weren't Christian at all but turns out some were Deists. Other quotes from others show they weren't very Christian and saw it's flaws. http://www.skeptically.org/thinkersonreligion/id9.html

It's very strange isn't it when you consider these days how religous politicians there claim to be/have to claim to be.

mossyc123

ScumLord wrote: »

I had been sure they weren't Christian at all but turns out some were Deists. Other quotes from others show they weren't very Christian and saw it's flaws. http://www.skeptically.org/thinkersonreligion/id9.html

They were all Christians with differing degrees of affiliiation to different Churches.

From Wikipedia:

"Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 49 were Protestants, and three were Roman Catholics (C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons). Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (or Episcopalian, after the American Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists.
A few prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical Christians, such as Thomas Jefferson[12][13][14] (who created the so-called "Jefferson Bible") and Benjamin Franklin.[15] A few others (most notably Thomas Paine) were deists, or at least held beliefs very similar to those of deists "

eyescreamcone

In fairness, couldn't RTE offer all religions a chance to have a go at the prime time slot.
Also, give Atheist Ireland an equal opportunity also.

Nobody could complain then.

ScumLord

mossyc123 wrote: »

They were all Christians with differing degrees of affiliiation to different Churches.

From Wikipedia:

"Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 49 were Protestants, and three were Roman Catholics (C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons). Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (or Episcopalian, after the American Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists.
A few prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical Christians, such as Thomas Jefferson[12][13][14] (who created the so-called "Jefferson Bible") and Benjamin Franklin.[15] A few others (most notably Thomas Paine) were deists, or at least held beliefs very similar to those of deists "

Deists are not Christian though, and many despite being born into religion clearly had problems with religion, especially it's influence on the state.

fontanalis wrote: »

It's very strange isn't it when you consider these days how religous politicians there claim to be/have to claim to be.

It's a popular thing to do, I doubt their honesty about the subject.

johnners2981

Jess16 wrote: »

Do you actually have any substantial point to make, besides attacking and misquoting me to push your own misguided agenda?

My points on equality of opportunity, tolerance and inclusivity have clearly sailed right over your head.

Show me where did I misquote you? You're too ignorant to see what you typed is discriminatory.

Your points on equality are that you don't want equality otherwise you'd be saying rte should be playing 1 minute of silence for every other religion out there. But no, you just want Ireland to stay Catholic to suit your selfish wants.

All I am asking for is equality, that's my substantial point. Religion should have no part in state funded organizations.

IrishEyes19

hotmail.com wrote: »

Would you be annoyed if there was Muslim religious symbols everywhere?

Anyway, we're a republic, that means that no religion is given any preference. Anything that receives state money cannot endorse any religion, it's indisputable.

Is it the most important issue at the moment..Of course not. It doesn't mean people can't have a view on it.

Would I be annoyed if there were muslim religious symbols everywhere? No. That has nothing to do with this by the way.

I didnt say people can't have a view on it either. I just gave my view. :rolleyes:

hotmail.com

mossyc123 wrote: »

That interpretation was made at a time when only a few wealthy land owning Catholics could vote.

Religious equality was a real issue back then.

Edit: No, I just don't want the State try and reshape the Cultural traditions of society in the name of "progress" and "inclusiveness".

A foreigner coming to Ireland today would have no clue that the broadcasts of The Angelus or A Prayer at Bedtime was a Catholic tradition.

Religious equality hasn't gone away! The interpretation then is as relevant as it was then as it is now. All people have to be treated equally regardless of religion...Religion therefore has to be a private matter. If a state gives preferences to one religion, which happened in Ireland pre independence when the Protestant Ascendancy had power in Ireland and post independence, when the Catholic religion became the pre-eminent force in Irish - It is not a good thing for an inclusive society to have one religion dominate the society. I presume you support an inclusive society?

If you can't see that then I give up.

mossyc123

hotmail.com wrote: »

Religious equality hasn't gone away! The interpretation then is as relevant as it was then as it is now. All people have to be treated equally regardless of religion...Religion therefore has to be a private matter. If a state gives preferences to one religion, which happened in Ireland pre independence when the Protestant Ascendancy had power in Ireland and post independence, when the Catholic religion became the pre-eminent force in Irish - It is not a good thing for an inclusive society to have one religion dominate the society. I presume you support an inclusive society?

If you can't see that then I give up.

I just don't see the need to get rid of The Angelus because it makes some people uncomfortable.

It's a part of Irish Cultural tradition.

In it's current guise as a one-minute broadcast there is no direct reference to the Catholic Church therefore how can it be seen to be favouring the Church?

Even if you take the other viewpoint and see it as an advertisement for the Church you should consider this:

A Catholic Church is where the vast majority of people in this country choose to have ceremonies to mark Birth, Marriage and Death.

Trying to eradicate all references to that Religion on TV is inclusive is it?

Freddie59

ScumLord wrote: »

No this is the science that has you sitting in front of a computer impossible to imagine 100 years ago, that makes your clothes cheap, that brings you to and from work and on far flung holidays. You live science everyday.

But still wants us to believe that there was nothing and then there was everything - and no-one did it!:rolleyes::D

ricero

seriously it only last for 1 minute ffs. to many bible bashers out there now and ****ing impatient ****

hotmail.com

mossyc123 wrote: »

I just don't see the need to get rid of The Angelus because it makes some people uncomfortable.

It's a part of Irish Cultural tradition.

In it's current guise as a one-minute broadcast there is no direct reference to the Catholic Church therefore how can it be seen to be favouring the Church?

Even if you take the other viewpoint and see it as an advertisement for the Church you should consider this:

A Catholic Church is where the vast majority of people in this country choose to have ceremonies to mark Birth, Marriage and Death.

Trying to eradicate all references to that Religion on TV is inclusive is it?

Just because a majority supports something doesn't make it ok.

Look, anything that receives state money shouldn't give preference to any one religion. You clearly disagree and believe state money should be given to endorse one religion. I disagree.

It's part of Irish cultural tradition - are you serious?

Mickeroo

Freddie59 wrote: »

But still wants us to believe that there was nothing and then there was everything - and no-one did it!:rolleyes::D

We don't know what was before the big bang, the only one who seems certain the theory suggests there was nothing is you. If you're going to take the piss out of one of the most well extablished scientific theories in existence at least get your facts right.

Jess16

hotmail.com wrote: »

It is not a good thing for an inclusive society to have one religion dominate the society

But there's always going to be a dominant something! Dominance and inclusion arent mutually exclusive, inclusive practices will still have dominant trends.

Which is why the English Premiership has a consistent top 3 teams despite them all playing by the same rules in the same competition. Because: more money+more fans = more power.
And because we live in a Capitalist society, the institution with the most money and most fans will always win out. The Catholic church operates within Capitalist Ireland therefore they are the current winners, with most money, most followers and therefore most power.

The only way to address this would be to radically restucture our society. But from a Capitalist one to what?

tl/dr: The source of this problem is Capitalism, not Catholicism

ScumLord

Freddie59 wrote: »

But still wants us to believe that there was nothing and then there was everything - and no-one did it!:rolleyes::D

That's not the theory, they can only tell us what happened back as far as the big bang after that they just don't know, but even that time line isn't proven yet it is basically an educated guess.

Lord TSC

Its sixty seconds out of 24 hours a day on a channel I don't watch. Tbh, if it makes some people happy, it's really not that intrusive...

Freddie59

ScumLord wrote: »

educated guess.

Belief then........?;)

Mickeroo

Freddie59 wrote: »

Belief then........?;)

The english language would disagree.

be·lief Noun/biˈlēf/
1. An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
2. Something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction

ed·u·cat·ed guess
Noun: A guess based on knowledge and experience and therefore likely to be correct.

ScumLord

Freddie59 wrote: »

Belief then........?;)

No it's based on the best evidence we have at the moment but while there's allot of it we haven't really seen all that much of the universe. It's all open correction though, if you can support a better theory with real evidence then I shall tip my hat to you sir.