Son Of General Retro Discussion

Jack burton

I thought it was power by tears of the young?

Retr0gamer

So it's pretty much like buying a PS3 without a power lead, except the 3DS AC adapter isn't generic. I don't know what nitendo hope to achieve with this other than tears at christmas and annoyed parents.

o1s1n

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

by buying an AC adapter seperately or you know, by using the ac adapter that came with the regular 3DS they reckon most 3DSXL purchasers already own.

I would have thought the majority of 3DSXL purchases would be people who didnt own a 3DS?

Why would you buy a 3DSXL if you already had a 3DS? Seems like a bit of a pointless purchase to me?

Myrddin

o1s1n wrote: »

I would have thought the majority of 3DSXL purchases would be people who didnt own a 3DS?

Why would you buy a 3DSXL if you already had a 3DS? Seems like a bit of a pointless purchase to me?

Surely only collectors etc would go down that road? Maybe a lot of people have a DS, maybe a lot still have a DSi, maybe some even have a DSi XL, & maybe some have a 3DS...the point is, you can't assume anyone has anything. What about the people who sell/trade their old DS for this? Will they get less if they keep their chargers?

Madness in this day & age to expect someone to fork out >€200 & then ask them to pay more for a charger for it.

valleyoftheunos

o1s1n wrote: »

I would have thought the majority of 3DSXL purchases would be people who didnt own a 3DS?

Why would you buy a 3DSXL if you already had a 3DS? Seems like a bit of a pointless purchase to me?

Because Nintendo purchasers are all rabid fan boys who buy everthing teh company puts out?

Or least thats what Nintendo think?

I'd say the truth of it is that its just an attempt to bring the SRP down as low as possible but it definitely irks me.

I'll still be buying one obvs.

PS aparently the box is clearly marked no AC adapter included and every GS and HMV employee will have been told to go for the upsell or be whipped so I'd say the possibilty of any 3DSXL purchaser not knowing about it will be minimal.

johnny_ultimate

Anything that is mandatory to actually use the device should point blank not be sold separately. I've always thought the target market for the XL models was different than the standard, and would have imagined the crossover between the two markets was small. You definitely couldn't expect a significant majority of the market for an almost purely cosmetic new hardware configuration to be the same that only bought the original barely a year previously.

And never, ever trust a customer to read the packaging :pac:

o1s1n

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Anything that is mandatory to actually use the device should point blank not be sold separately.

That's it summed up for me. You can't use a 3DSXL without a charge first.

I'd say a lot of parents will be picking one of these up for their kids, the Gamestop employee will ask if they have a 3DS as they need the charger - the parent will say yes, take it home without a charger - the it turns out the kid had a DS, not a 3DS - no way of charging console.

Retr0gamer

Would a handheld device with no charger not fall foul of EU consumer law, in particular the point that states that the item bought must be fit for use for the purpose it was sold. The same rule that so many PS3 owners in the PS forum have won refunds and replacement PS3 consoles on?

Atavan-Halen

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Would a handheld device with no charger not fall foul of EU consumer law, in particular the point that states that the item bought must be fit for use for the purpose it was sold. The same rule that so many PS3 owners in the PS forum have won refunds and replacement PS3 consoles on?

I'd doubt it as the console itself is actually for for use. I think if that was the case then they wouldn't be allowed sell extra controllers or accessories as it's the same thing really. Well not really but you get what I'm getting at :P

a5y

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Just reading that the 3DS XL doesn't come with a charger

Those guys in Nintendo are mad bastards sometimes.

On the plus side, with no power in the battery neither the 3D screen's sweet spot nor the lack of a second analogue stick seem to be such big annoyances. So its still 2 steps forward, one step back, right?

valleyoftheunos

a5y wrote: »

On the plus side, with no power in the battery neither the 3D screen's sweet spot nor the lack of a second analogue stick seem to be such big annoyances. So its still 2 steps forward, one step back, right?

is there a new problem with the new screen? I heard the 3D effect was better?

a5y

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

is there a new problem with the new screen? I heard the 3D effect was better?

The new problem is getting it to turn on.

CiDeRmAn

Given the imminent release of the 3DS XL, this means that with the other console purchases I want I'm going to have to find €1000 between now and the end of the year, so I can afford the chargerless wonder, the PSVita, which is bound to have a better range of games by Jebus day, a PS3, so I can play... erm, I'll think of something and, of course, I have to buy the WiiU at launch, because I'm a witless wonder when it comes to Ninty.

I would go so far as to say, of the four consoles mentioned, Nintendo would be my preferred purchases, so a 3DS XL and a WiiU by Jebus day and maybe, just maybe, leave the Sony products til they are in the bargain bucket in Harvey Norman.....

o1s1n

A grand would be better spent on a candy cab to be honest

There was plenty of room in your study..!

valleyoftheunos

Wait long enough and you'll be able to get a PS3 for €100 as they try to shift the last of them. I'm hoping for a similar situation on Xbox360s some day.

rubadub

Pyongyang wrote: »

It's like LG releasing a plasma tv with the plasma sold separately.

hmmm, more like a plasma with no power lead. I am pretty sure some mobile phones are sold with no charger nowadays.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Would a handheld device with no charger not fall foul of EU consumer law, in particular the point that states that the item bought must be fit for use for the purpose it was sold.

Not sure, loads of printers are sold without cables. And possibly phones as I mentioned.

I think some were doing it for ecological reasons, or so the marketing claim goes. Many will already have a charger.

People get pissed off with these omissions, but that is since many view the items as "free", like people believe in "free postage". There are no volunteer postmen, and no free power supplies, you are paying for it in many cases, I would prefer the choice. I used to get pissed off forking out good money for nokia chargers when my house and work were littered with the damn things. We had to do a cull on them at one stage.

it does get on in the US
http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/3DS/Nintendo+3DS+XL/news.asp?c=42389

OwaynOTT

Is there any limited edition 3DS XL coming out? Like the Zelda 3DS.

ghostchant

I don't want another 3DS/DSi charger. I've got at least 4 knocking around my house at this stage, so if the 3DSXL works out cheaper due to the charger being separate, then that works for me. Those that need one can buy one separately, at presumably no overall increase in cost compared to a situation where it was bundled.

Bought my Dad a phone for his birthday over the weekend and it too didn't have a charger, just a USB cable which could be plugged into any standard USB wall-wart.

CiDeRmAn

Some Apple products are sold with nothing other than a USB, but then it can charge across that cable.
I'd say that Nintendo not providing a charger with their 3DS XL could be challenged in court, I don't think it's permissible to be honest.
They are simply trying to generate more revenue, "€250 for a 3DS XL? Great value, now for another €20 for the charger!"
Unless they are intent on phasing out the charger, preferring to give us some other method, like induction or something, I don't know, seems like a flaky notion tbh.

johnny_ultimate

You have to remember that we, the regulars of arcade & retro forum, are not necessarily the target market, and I don't think Nintendo can presume that everyone who wants a 3DS XL already has a charger for a previous device, or a bundle of GBA / DS / DSi plugs knocking around in a box somewhere. The last DS I owned before a 3DS was a DS phat, so I'd have to buy the extra one if I had of waited for an XL.

If there was a USB cable or something, no problem, that's the way it's going and I don't have any problem with that. But without a separate charger there is no way to charge a 3DS XL straight out of the box, which to me is problematic. IMO an electronic product should have everything needed to turn it on in the box, actual electricity excluded

It's not the end of the world or anything (and, yes, the charger is likely readily available), but I just think there's likely a more elegant solution than providing a product without any charging solution, especially when it's a proprietary connection.

ghostchant

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Some Apple products are sold with nothing other than a USB, but then it can charge across that cable.

If I had a computer or usb plug adaptor.* Is the 3DS issue not roughly the same as 'batteries not included'...at least in principle?

*Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuiPDBA3XZI

johnny_ultimate

ghostchant wrote: »

If I had a computer or usb plug adaptor.* Is the 3DS issue not roughly the same as 'batteries not included'...at least in principle?

Certain natural assumptions do need to be made, for sure. It's a safe bet 99% of households have a USB connection these days, and a safer bet again that 100% have a plug socket and electricity supply. But, the proprietary tech is the slight complication in this case.

A USB cable is not proprietary.

AAA batteries are not proprietary.

Even mobile phone chargers are no longer proprietary (which is great for environmental reasons, by the way).

The 3DS, however, demands a certain type of connection. Would have been better if they went with a more universal type of charging tech - well, not ****ing batteries :pac: - as it would have the same effect without this minor (and yeah, it's minor) annoyance.

rubadub

I suppose they could have at least stuck a USB adaptor in it.

Dealextreme sell ninentdo ones for $1.60-$1.90. And that includes delivery costs, so they must cost pittance to make.

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/usb-charging-cable-for-nintendo-3ds-100cm-110857?item=12

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/usb-charging-cable-for-ndsi-dsi-17984?item=38

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/usb-charging-cable-for-nds-lite-3401?item=46

My mother got a creative mp3 player with just a USB cable with it. Then just got a USB wall socket PSU, used the PC at first. I have a few of these from phones and things. Or of course use a pc/laptop if you are really stuck.

I was going to say they could have an adaptor to suit those old school power supplies you would get with the various adapters and where you could change to different voltages. But USB is more common and more fool proof as you are not changing voltage.

Myrddin

ghostchant wrote: »

I don't want another 3DS/DSi charger. I've got at least 4 knocking around my house at this stage, so if the 3DSXL works out cheaper due to the charger being separate, then that works for me. Those that need one can buy one separately, at presumably no overall increase in cost compared to a situation where it was bundled.

Bought my Dad a phone for his birthday over the weekend and it too didn't have a charger, just a USB cable which could be plugged into any standard USB wall-wart.

Someone would want to be pretty deluded to believe the exclusion of a charger will make the 3DS XL cheaper, this is about profit, not customer satisfaction. No charger plus same price equals higher profit per unit sold.

ghostchant

My first thought was that it was a way of dissuading people from trading in their DSi-XL or whatever when upgrading, curbing pre-owned console sales.

I remember being stuck without a way to charge an iPod a few years ago due to being away from computers and not having a USB plug adaptor. They may not be proprietary but they still require me to hand over extra money for one if I don't already happen to have one.

rubadub

EnterNow wrote: »

Someone would want to be pretty deluded to believe the exclusion of a charger will make the 3DS XL cheaper.

But you could just as easily say you'd be pretty deluded to believe the inclusion of a charger will leave the 3DS XL at the same price. Like I said before free postage is a misnomer, as is a charger which some consider 'free'.

I am having this issue myself at the moment, I design machines (I won't go into what) and we have a cheaper unit just launched which is not supplied with a part which some would deem essential, like the charger. We have already had a customer complaint about it when it was sent out for review to a big buyer who could not use it straight off. And complaints from our own staff who took for granted it would have it and could not do installs.

We have several salesmen and it was 50/50 whether to include it or not. Some like the idea of the cheaper machine, meaning more sales for them. One has had actually complaints about it being included in the past, as the buyers know its included in the price and hate throwing them out as they already have their own preferred solution.

Others are worried about the use of low quality 3rd party ones, which can give us a bad name through association. This could be similar to people getting a chinese knock off PSU which breaks the DS. Or using a cheap component cable resulting in somebody bad mouthing an otherwise top quality dvd player or something.

My suggestion was to have 2 models, or have all sales people alerted to mention it when selling, like salespeople alert you about printers not having cables included. Some places have this automatically appear on a checkout screen when you go to buy it. I would recommend the 'missing' item should be offered at a good discount when bundled with the dearer product. Many companies will have a minimum profit per sale/transaction so cheap products might be expensive to get on their own to factor this in.

In my case it is going to be included to stop the risk of 3rd party problems, and the price is going to increase to just cover it, i.e. no real extra margin on it.

The other marketing technique is to offer a discount for not getting it. This is similar to takeaways with 'free delivery' but offering a 'walk in discount'. Both parties go away thinking they got a good deal -unless they see through it.

Myrddin

rubadub wrote: »

But you could just as easily say you'd be pretty deluded to believe the inclusion of a charger will leave the 3DS XL at the same price

Nintendo is a business, the objective of a business is to maximise profits, this is all about higher profit per unit. If it wasn't, the charger would be included as not everyone has one.

Myrddin

ghostchant wrote: »

My first thought was that it was a way of dissuading people from trading in their DSi-XL or whatever when upgrading, curbing pre-owned console sales.

I remember being stuck without a way to charge an iPod a few years ago due to being away from computers and not having a USB plug adaptor. They may not be proprietary but they still require me to hand over extra money for one if I don't already happen to have one.

True, it just doesn't make the decision not to include one any less sh1tty

Steve X2

Getting close to 2am here in Tokyo. Time for a few hours sleep as I'm up early in the morning so I can go around and grab all Pyongys reserved items before he arrives :pac:

Ulster Bank credit card not working as expected as my card is linked directly to my bank account rather than a credit card account. Thanks Ulster Bank :mad:
Lucky I have a regular card as well otherwise I'd be proper fooked over here.

Pyongy, I you're with Ulster Bank be prepared mate. They promised me everything would be fine and well, it wasn't.

Retr0gamer

Uh oh, I've a major problem here. After my splurge in NYC and some recent ebay items I'm quite literally out of room to house my unfinished games I think it's time to drop the RPGs and play some 6-8 hour action fest because I've a delivery of 10 NES games coming next week.