Denver Broncos Thread

kmart6

All the excuses?!, explain that one! I pointed out Clark wasn't able to play and Taylor was woeful, not exactly excuses!

Chucky the tree

vetinari wrote: »

Chucky, I love the insinuation that he's skating on think ice after winning the division this year. If Cam Newton doesn't make the playoffs, is he done?

Speaking of Newtown, as he's a prototypical QB, how many years will you give him to win a superbowl before declaring that he's not the answer for the Panthers. Because with Tebow, there's this bizarre logic that he almost needs to get to a Superbowl before he can be viewed as a long term QB. The likes of Matt Ryan, Sam Bradford and Cam Newton don't seem to have this level of pressure.

He can't throw the ball very well. That's why he's skating on this ice. Any QB QB who has a 73 QB rating and can't throw the ball will be on thin ice no matter what they did the previous year. As for the Cam Newtom, well he has 10% better completion %, 10 points better QB rating, nearly twice as many TDs thrown, and throws over 1.5 yards more each throw.

This is the thing, as a QB it's actually not all about winning and that isn't the only way they are judged.

spiralism

kmart6 wrote: »

I'm beginning to remember why I stopped posting here!

Clinging to one performance against a secondary missing it's top CB, and then Taylor having a nightmare game, it does not make him a good passer of the ball!!

The criticism is insane because Eli came in as traditional QB, a #1 pick!

Just take what Alex Smith said today about what Eli has had to face!


Now your more than likely going to counter that with all the hype around Tebow, but that's all self imposed/created with the way he carries on with his religious stuff!

No excuses for winning. Ryan clark is a safety anyways, not a CB, and he's definitely not their top safety with Polamalu back there.

Ah here now, of course Tebow's had it as hard, we've not had anything at QB since Elway bar Cutler and he threw a tantrum and ****ed off and there's all the hype surrounding him.

Bit daft to say it's just because of his religion, which he is of course entirely entitled to. Kurt Warner was as religious and often went out of his way to thank God in press conferences, etc but didn't get the same hype, Tebow has it as well on the back of being one of the greatest college QBs ever and a very unorthodox player that generates a ****load of discussion

I don't get this slamming people do of Tebow's big name because of his promotion of his religion and the good things he does. There's a ton of scumbags like Vick, Pacman Jones, Brandon Marshall, Sam Hurd and the likes in the league, yet they dont seem to get half the stick Tebow does for mentioning Jesus in press conference and giving up a load of his salary to help build a hospital out in the Philippines

And as for the "Thin ice" thing... nah, Eli got 4 years of sub 80 QB ratings and Alex Smith got 5 years of bad play and numerous benchings as no.1 picks, Tebow will be given time.

Chucky the tree

Raider, Charger and Chiefs fans rejoice. 4 years of Tebow as QB, I can only pray Elway is that stupid but somehow I doubt it.

spiralism

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Raider, Charger and Chiefs fans rejoice. 4 years of Tebow as QB, I can only pray Elway is that stupid but somehow I doubt it.

didn't know ye enjoyed watching us in the playoffs that much...:pac:

Chucky the tree

spiralism wrote: »

didn't know ye enjoyed watching us in the playoffs that much...:pac:

The match against the Pats was one of my favourites this year.

spiralism

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The match against the Pats was one of my favourites this year.

I preferred the Steelers one myself :cool:

TaosHum

spiralism wrote: »

I preferred the Steelers one myself :cool:

Out of curiosity spiralism, whats your opinion on Mike McCoy? Seems like he is inline to take the Miami job.

kmart6

spiralism wrote: »

Ryan clark is a safety anyways, not a CB

Meant DB!

spiralism wrote: »

he's definitely not their top safety with Polamalu back there.

He had a much better year than Polamalu!

spiralism wrote: »

Bit daft to say it's just because of his religion, which he is of course entirely entitled to. Kurt Warner was as religious and often went out of his way to thank God in press conferences, etc but didn't get the same hype

I don't get this slamming people do of Tebow's big name because of his promotion of his religion

It's because of the constant genuflecting(Tebowing), if he wasn't doing that I could guarantee there wouldn't be so much hype because that whole element wouldn't be there! That's all a lot of people know him for, little 30 second news clips about that and the phenomenon it has created, those people don't care about the game!

Jolly Red Giant

kmart6 wrote: »

Eli won the NFC East in his second season with an 11-5 record, a much tougher division than Denver faced this year!

With a far better supporting cast than exists in Denver

kmart6 wrote: »

And Eli can actually pass the ball!

That is a valid argument - and Tebow will never be as good. The point being is that Tebow doesn't have to be - he has a lot of talents that Eli M doesn't have and if Fox and Elway can build an offensive scheme to take advantage of them and build a dominant defence than the Broncos can do the job with Tebow.

kmart6 wrote: »

All the excuses?!, explain that one! I pointed out Clark wasn't able to play and Taylor was woeful, not exactly excuses!

kmart - players get hurt - Decker was knocked out of the game deliberately by Harrison - the Broncos were missing Kuper on the OL - McGahee was banged up - Larsen the FB was out. If you are any good you have to find a way to win when you are hurting. The Broncos won and the Steelers lost. The Steelers themselves aren't making the excuses that you are.

Is Tebow the answer at QB for Denver - only time will tell - but as Elway has said, he has earned the right to be the starting QB going into training camp.

spiralism

TaosHum wrote: »

Out of curiosity spiralism, whats your opinion on Mike McCoy? Seems like he is inline to take the Miami job.

I actually don't know what to make of this...very hit and miss as an OC, he did tailor the offence around tebow but at the same time we still scored **** all points over the course of the season. He'd have a good outing where the plays are great and Tebow executes well, an example being the steelers match. But there's also a ton of games where the playcalling looks like this: run, run, qb draw, punt or run, run, deep pass incomplete, punt. No variety whatsoever, the Playaction playbook has all of about three different plays.

As well as that he has ****ed up on some basic details on occasion, an example being the consistent lack of max protection plays against the pats in favour of 5 wide while the pats rushed 4/5 on every play, meaning that they were in the backfield on every snap. Another glaring issue was the lack of a short passing game, in nearly every single outing we never had Tebow throwing easy passes like slants, short hooks or screens but instead 40 yard deep shots. We led the league in 3 and outs i believe

To be honest, i dont mean to get you down but he isn't head coach material from what i see, he can have his moments and has done reasonably well at times but he annoyed the **** out of me with ultra conservative/downright stupid playcalling more often than he called it spot on like in the steelers game.

TaosHum

spiralism wrote: »

I actually don't know what to make of this...very hit and miss as an OC, he did tailor the offence around tebow but at the same time we still scored **** all points over the course of the season. He'd have a good outing where the plays are great and Tebow executes well, an example being the steelers match. But there's also a ton of games where the playcalling looks like this: run, run, qb draw, punt or run, run, deep pass incomplete, punt. No variety whatsoever, the Playaction playbook has all of about three different plays.

As well as that he has ****ed up on some basic details on occasion, an example being the consistent lack of max protection plays against the pats in favour of 5 wide while the pats rushed 4/5 on every play, meaning that they were in the backfield on every snap. Another glaring issue was the lack of a short passing game, in nearly every single outing we never had Tebow throwing easy passes like slants, short hooks or screens but instead 40 yard deep shots. We led the league in 3 and outs i believe

To be honest, i dont mean to get you down but he isn't head coach material from what i see, he can have his moments and has done reasonably well at times but he annoyed the **** out of me with ultra conservative/downright stupid playcalling more often than he called it spot on like in the steelers game.

Thanks for the reply. I'm not that high on the prospect of him becoming HC, but the other side of the argument I'm hearing is that A) His playcalling was a result of Tebow's ability as a passer and His offense was good with McDaniels and Orton.

That's coming from Miami fans though, so I'm not entirely convinced.

spiralism

TaosHum wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I'm not that high on the prospect of him becoming HC, but the other side of the argument I'm hearing is that A) His playcalling was a result of Tebow's ability as a passer and His offense was good with McDaniels and Orton.

That's coming from Miami fans though, so I'm not entirely convinced.

McDaniels ran the offence when he was there, McCoy had no input except as QB coach. McCoy only took over as offensive co-ordinator after McDaniels got the boot, which was when Tebow first took the starting job. McCoy's only involvement with Orton was from weeks 1-5 this year, where the offence was lousy too, except we at least had Brandon Lloyd then who was more than capable of catching the deep ball.

As for the playcalling, it wasnt even that it was based on Tebow's ability, we literally called runs 90% of the time and if not the call was for a deep pass. I'd like to think that if the playcalling was based on Tebow's ability as a passer there would have been a lot of short throws designed to get him into a rhythm. It wasn't that different to the orton offence, which was the same run, run, deep pass, punt model, except when orton was there we couldnt get any run game going at all.

poldebruin

I don't rate McCoy at all and can't understand why he is receiving as much interest as he is. I certainly didn't hear anyone hail him as an offensive genius and his playcalling looked insipid at times. In fact, the only time the Denver offence showed any spark, was when they went into 2 minute mode, do-or-die-type last minute drive, and that was down to Tebow making things happen against prevent defenses rather than McCoy's playcalling.

I wonder (and this is a huge long shot) if the only reason McCoy was courted by Miami and Jacksonville was that he might bring Tebow down there with him? Both had trouble fillin their stadiums and generating interest in their franchises. Tebow would be a huge draw locally for either. I certainly can't think of another reason for it?

Jolly Red Giant

poldebruin wrote: »

I don't rate McCoy at all and can't understand why he is receiving as much interest as he is. I certainly didn't hear anyone hail him as an offensive genius and his playcalling looked insipid at times. In fact, the only time the Denver offence showed any spark, was when they went into 2 minute mode, do-or-die-type last minute drive, and that was down to Tebow making things happen against prevent defenses rather than McCoy's playcalling.

Personally - I would be happy to see McCoy get the job and be replaced by Dennison

poldebruin wrote: »

I wonder (and this is a huge long shot) if the only reason McCoy was courted by Miami and Jacksonville was that he might bring Tebow down there with him? Both had trouble fillin their stadiums and generating interest in their franchises. Tebow would be a huge draw locally for either. I certainly can't think of another reason for it?

Wouldn't have a problem with that either - I would happily trade Tebow for the Dolphins No.8 and a third rounder.

poldebruin

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Personally - I would be happy to see McCoy get the job and be replaced by Dennison

You'd have to assume it would be a run-heavy O if that were the case. I wouldn't be against it either, and Elway knows Dennison very well.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Wouldn't have a problem with that either - I would happily trade Tebow for the Dolphins No.8 and a third rounder.

Jeez, if they were offered a 1st rounder (anywhere in the round) they would do it in a heartbeat. It would be massively unpopular with the fans however.

spiralism

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Personally - I would be happy to see McCoy get the job and be replaced by Dennison


Wouldn't have a problem with that either - I would happily trade Tebow for the Dolphins No.8 and a third rounder.

Same, i'd love to get Hue Jackson though. Chances are though we're going to settle for Adam Gase and more of the same, if not worse.

I wouldn't, there wont be anything left in terms of QBs there...why bother then?

On a slightly different note, with Jake Long, Arian Foster and Troy Polamalu withdrawing from the Pro bowl with injuries, they've been replaced with Clady(inexplicably, he wasn't great this year), McGahee and Dawkins, giving us 6 pro bowlers, the most we've had since 2001.

poldebruin

spiralism wrote: »

Same, i'd love to get Hue Jackson though. Chances are though we're going to settle for Adam Gase and more of the same, if not worse.

I wouldn't, there wont be anything left in terms of QBs there...why bother then?

On a slightly different note, with Jake Long, Arian Foster and Troy Polamalu withdrawing from the Pro bowl with injuries, they've been replaced with Clady(inexplicably, he wasn't great this year), McGahee and Dawkins, giving us 6 pro bowlers, the most we've had since 2001.

sad indictment of the pro bowl really. I think at this point they're just trying to fill the rosters! They should just do away with this game and vote for the all-pro and 2nd team all-pro. I think Clady had the most holding calls against him in the NFL this year - but with the way Tebow extends the play and goes off script - this wasn't really surprising. I still think he is a huge talent.

eagle eye

poldebruin wrote: »

sad indictment of the pro bowl really. I think at this point they're just trying to fill the rosters! They should just do away with this game and vote for the all-pro and 2nd team all-pro. I think Clady had the most holding calls against him in the NFL this year - but with the way Tebow extends the play and goes off script - this wasn't really surprising. I still think he is a huge talent.

If you are on about fans voting for it, this is why the Pro-bowl is such a joke.

poldebruin

eagle eye wrote: »

If you are on about fans voting for it, this is why the Pro-bowl is such a joke.

Oh no. I'm talking about the AP (sportswriters) official team - don't play any game. Just vote for the all pros and leave it at that.

Even when the players voted it wasn't great to be frank. In this day and age who wants to play any additional games, especially ones that don't count for anything?

Paully D

You've probably all already seen this considering it's 5/6 years old now, but anyway:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLUXfCA98XM

Year of the Quarterback about Tebow choosing his college.

Interesting to watch now knowing that he became a starter in the NFL (for however long is another debate).

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but some of those interviewed compare him to Vick with a better arm, Alex Smith and Brett Farve.

One thing everyone was right about was his dedication and modesty.

He's an absolute warrior. He even seemed to play on in a high school match with a snapped fibia :eek:

All the other 6 parts are on YouTube too.

spiralism

Paully D wrote: »

You've probably all already seen this considering it's 5/6 years old now, but anyway:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLUXfCA98XM

Year of the Quarterback about Tebow choosing his college.

Interesting to watch now knowing that he became a starter in the NFL (for however long is another debate).

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but some of those interviewed compare him to Vick with a better arm, Alex Smith and Brett Farve.

One thing everyone was right about was his dedication and modesty.

He's an absolute warrior. He even seemed to play on in a high school match with a snapped fibia :eek:

All the other 6 parts are on YouTube too.

Have you seen "Everything in between", just out of interest?

Paully D

spiralism wrote: »

Have you seen "Everything in between", just out of interest?

Nope, I haven't even heard of it to be honest

spiralism

Paully D wrote: »

Nope, I haven't even heard of it to be honest

It's a documentary on Tebow between the end of his Florida days and his drafting by us, i linked it here before i think, i'll try find a video but youtube seems to have taken them down.

Here's a trailer in the meantime

kmart6

Saw that a couple of months,good because you get to live through the anguish and despair on draft day up until he gets a call from McDaniels to basically tell him to get in front of the cameras with our hat on you!

Paully D

spiralism wrote: »

It's a documentary on Tebow between the end of his Florida days and his drafting by us, i linked it here before i think, i'll try find a video but youtube seems to have taken them down.

Here's a trailer in the meantime

That looks excellent, exactly the type of insight that I like to see.

I'll have a look around the net for it now.

EDIT - Full documentary here: http://www.veoh.com/watch/v264544829phSddsD?h1=Tim+Tebow-Everything+In+Between

Chucky the tree

Adam Schefter

Raiders have identified Broncos DC Dennis Allen as the leading candidate to become their next HC. Raiders told other candidates they're out.

Not sure what to make of this.

spiralism

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Adam Schefter



Not sure what to make of this.

Oh for ****s sake, now we have to change Defensive Coordinators yet again.

Dunno if he's HC material, our Defence was improved but we did ship a ****load of points against big teams and he's only a year's experience as DC anywhere afaik

kmart6

spiralism wrote: »

Oh for ****s sake, now we have to change Defensive Coordinators yet again.

Dunno if he's HC material, our Defence was improved but we did ship a ****load of points against big teams and he's only a year's experience as DC anywhere afaik

Yeah well it is the Raiders, not like they ever do things logically!

kmart6

Just confirmed

Adam Schefter wrote:

Now official: Oakland Raiders are hiring former Broncos defensive coordinator Dennis Allen as head coach. Deal done.