Electric Vehicles - Your thoughts - MotorMouth, Newstalk

Daraghot

This week we’re talking to Eric Basset, MD of Renault Ireland. He’ll be telling us what’s in store from Renault with regards to EVs. He also tells us about the Renault leasing policy.

You can listen online here http://www.newstalk.ie/electric-vehicles/, or if you have an ipod or itunes it can be downloaded here http://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/t...368?i=96655937.

Gearheart

The only way they can work is if it's as convienent as a traditionally fuelled car, and is as cheap to maintenance, but that unfortunatly will take time, but it cant really save you money if you buy a brand new car and within 4 to 6 years the batteries start to give problems

Sesshoumaru

Gearheart wrote: »

The only way they can work is if it's as convienent as a traditionally fuelled car, and is as cheap to maintenance, but that unfortunatly will take time, but it cant really save you money if you buy a brand new car and within 4 to 6 years the batteries start to give problems

Well done. You've clearly researched this extensively. For the rest of us can you let us know how you know the batteries will start giving issues in 4 to 6 years?

Daraghot

This week on the podcast we'll be looking at the Electric Vehicle and the commercial sector.

It'll be available from tomorrow (Tuesday). You can listen online here http://www.newstalk.ie/electric-vehicles/, or if you have an ipod or itunes it can be downloaded there.

Daraghot

This week on the podcast we are looking at some of the myths and some of the truths about the electric vehicle. We're talking to Seth Fletcher of "Popular Science" - he's also the author of "Bottled Lightning, Super Batteries, Electric Cars and the New Lithium Economy".

Also featuring this week is Conor Faughnan of the AA.

To download go to this address http://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/show-5-myths-final-tricks/id456627368?i=97196260, or you can listen online at http://www.newstalk.ie/electric-vehicles/.

Be good,
Daragh

Daraghot

This week (the final week) we’re looking at the future of the electric vehicle. What’s in store? We’ll be talking to Neil Brisco of EDrive.ie, Shane O’ Donoghue of CompleteCar.ie and the Chief Engineer of the Zoe project with Renault, Mr. David Twohig. Download on itunes http://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/the-future-electric-vehicle/id456627368?i=97381400 or listen online at www.newstalk.ie/electric-vehicles.

reboot

Daraghot wrote: »

This week (the final week) we’re looking at the future of the electric vehicle. What’s in store? We’ll be talking to Neil Brisco of EDrive.ie, Shane O’ Donoghue of CompleteCar.ie and the Chief Engineer of the Zoe project with Renault, Mr. David Twohig. Download on itunes http://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/the-future-electric-vehicle/id456627368?i=97381400 or listen online at www.newstalk.ie/electric-vehicles.

Did anyone raise the "Battery Charging Impossible" problem with Renault Zoe at some 22Kw charge Points? This seems to be a major fault condition with the car across Europe.myrenaultzoe.com "Charging Issues" Some CPs in the North have never been capable of charging any Zoe since they were installed,over a year ago.The Renault Elephant in the room?

From rambling through the Zoe forums it seems to not be a huge issue, perhaps due to the coating on the contacts of the Charge socket.

It's my understanding that it effects early Zoe's.

reboot

Deleted User wrote: »

From rambling through the Zoe forums it seems to not be a huge issue, perhaps due to the coating on the contacts of the Charge socket.

It's my understanding that it effects early Zoe's.

As discussed over a year and a half now, on many forums,and today in Newry, the Zoe refuses to take a charge opposite B&Q. Two other Cps in Newry Centre (Hill St) Iced by local Taxi and white Van Man,sitting in Van. Traffic Warden and PSNI sympathetic but still awaiting legislation to act.
Had I been travelling from Dublin to Belfast, I could have spent the day driving around the other CPs just for fun. Ballynahinch also a no go EV area as Carra had to completely remove the CP because of the Vandals.
As Martin Scheen asked on the Doc, "Who killed the Electric car?"

reboot

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Totally free:

http://www.seai.ie/Grants/Electric_Vehicle_Grant_Scheme/I_am_a_consumer/Charge_Infrastructur,_Time_Electricity_Supplier/



You don't have to have the ESB as your electricity supplier either. You pay BG or Airtricity or whoever supplies your electricity. The ESB still gives you the free home charger.

The fast charging is free at the moment. Any price I mention is speculative, but I have heard between 2 to 6 euro for a complete charge. No one really knows yet. If Topaz can sell electricity do they need to register as an electricity supplier like ESB/Airtricity/BG? There must be regulations on selling electricity. Hopefully plenty of red tape to keep it free for another while yet (=

The FCP has an LCD screen with some options to select before charging. There is complete charge and then the other option is you specify the number of minutes you want to charge. It does give you a cost after charging (60 cent for a full charge I think), but for now we can just ignore it and drive off. I'm sure the unit cost is adjustable and is probably just on the default setting for now.

Renault fitted a free home CP 32Amp, Economy 7 Power NI 8p/unit at night for the whole house.(So far UK only)

Daraghot

Daraghot wrote: »

This week we’re talking to Eric Basset, MD of Renault Ireland. He’ll be telling us what’s in store from Renault with regards to EVs. He also tells us about the Renault leasing policy.

You can listen online here http://www.newstalk.ie/electric-vehicles/, or if you have an ipod or itunes it can be downloaded here http://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/t...368?i=96655937.

I was a fan of the battery lease if keeping the car long term until I found out in the terms and conditions that Renault will replace or repair the battery as they see fit. SO you could end up with in or around 75% capacity, battery leasing does not entitle you to a new battery, and so as a result I've decided that I wouldn't be getting a Zoe.

I don;t want to spend xxxx on a lease after x amount of years for a "battery repair" when I will have paid the price of a new battery !

reboot

Deleted User wrote: »

I was a fan of the battery lease if keeping the car long term until I found out in the terms and conditions that Renault will replace or repair the battery as they see fit. SO you could end up with in or around 75% capacity, battery leasing does not entitle you to a new battery, and so as a result I've decided that I wouldn't be getting a Zoe.

I don;t want to spend xxxx on a lease after x amount of years for a "battery repair" when I will have paid the price of a new battery !

Slightly annoying new battery lease from Renault means New customers may pay as little as £49/month.
Take your point on the 75% capacity. As far as the Battery is concerned I assume as the modules in series deteriorate over time, they will be what Renault replace, not a whole battery?

One runt cell is enough to bring down a series string, so they would most likely replace that string.

The replaced cells have to be in or around the same age and internal resistance so replacing these cells could bring capacity back to in or around 80 %.

The tesla packs are constructed so that this string is eliminated from the pack altogether until repaired.

reboot

Deleted User wrote: »

One runt cell is enough to bring down a series string, so they would most likely replace that string.

The replaced cells have to be in or around the same age and internal resistance so replacing these cells could bring capacity back to in or around 80 %.

The tesla packs are constructed so that this string is eliminated from the pack altogether until repaired.

Do we know if the charge current is being split between the cells?,I assume 100 amps is not flowing through each cell in series,or is it?

bipedalhumanoid

I saw a british ad for the leaf that suggested there is a monthly rental charge for the battery. Is that the case in Ireland?

bipedalhumanoid

bipedalhumanoid wrote: »

I saw a british ad for the leaf that suggested there is a monthly rental charge for the battery. Is that the case in Ireland?

No the option to rent is not even given in Ireland.

Current indications on the 2015 model suggest a chemistry change though this is unconfirmed.

I think this may have been introduced in 2014, seemingly the battery is lasting very well.

I tested the battery ( via leafspy) of a 2014 Leaf with 30K Kms and had 544 fast charges and about the same in normal charges and the battery still showed 100% capacity, this is not observed in the original leaf at all.

The 2014 leaf still had exactly the same amp hours as my 7 week old 2015.

Whether this is a trick by Nissan or not to fool people into thinking there is more capacity or not remains unknown.

I tested a 2013 demo I had for a few days last year and it had lost 3% after 3,000 miles. And had not got nearly the amount of fast charges.

So it could be very well that this generation Leaf battery is highly resilient to heat and fast charging. Certainly after 30K kms and 544 fast charges you would have expected to loose a few % to say the least.

Anyway, it could be the case you would not have to consider leasing the battery.

From researching the US Leaf forum there certainly seems to be some change in the battery chemistry and I have posted my findings there also with pics.

bipedalhumanoid

Sounds promising. I noticed the Nissan site is suggesting the range in ideal conditions was 200km. I had always thought the range was 140km in ideal conditions. Has the range actually improved since the original leaf?

I have 70-85km round trip to do each day, so need to know that I can do at least that in any kind of driving conditions. Preferably on an 80% charge. Am I safe enough?

bipedalhumanoid

bipedalhumanoid wrote: »

Sounds promising. I noticed the Nissan site is suggesting the range in ideal conditions was 200km. I had always thought the range was 140km in ideal conditions. Has the range actually improved since the original leaf?

I have 70-85km round trip to do each day, so need to know that I can do at least that in any kind of driving conditions. Preferably on an 80% charge. Am I safe enough?

85 Kms should be no problem at 100-110 Kph, by the time I get back to the Naas fast charger I've done about 85 Kms and have between 20-25% capacity left. I don't like to run it down below this so i fast charge to 60% and get back home with about 20-25%.

So in theory you could do about 110 kms on a new battery. But you don't want to run it down too low all the time.

In Summer you could probably get an extra 15-20 kms . Though I have not had the car long enough to know.

reboot

Daraghot wrote: »

Long time no write on boards.ie!

Daragh Ó Tuama here from MotorMouth in Newstalk. We're currently working on a 6 part podcast for Newstalk on the electric vehicle. I'm hoping to get your thoughts on EVs so I can let our listeners know what the boardies think.

Sooo, if you have any thoughts, any thoughts at all all on the EV would you mind posting them here? We'll be recording over the next few days, and I'd really appreciate your thoughts.

Kind Regards,
Daragh

I have been at this EV car thing for nearly two years,and if your not careful the whole thing will drive you mad, and give you a breakdown, (Sorry). Here are my thoughts to keep it simple.
1 I started the" Thread for pure EV owners please", otherwise the arguments will go on for ever over into which is better Ice cars or electric, forget that and move on.
2 I drive a Renault Zoe and live in S.Down, I had to leave the Facebook group which seemed to be a cold place for non Leaf drivers (irishevowners)
The Leaf is by far the Ecar in the South,but then not many others are imported, I didn't make too many friends comparing the Leaf to the Model T ford.
3 You will find incontinent posting with some individuals ,who seem to take pleasure in surfing around in order to snipe at other posts,guess that happens everywhere.
4 Major differences appear between North and South, although monies from Europe figure in the mix, which is why I have to call Dublin to report a faulty charge point.
5 I posted recently that Power NI are removing the economy 7 tariff from April, which will mean EV owners will have to pay almost double for the electricity at night.
6 Two engineers service faulty charge points,(Hundreds) in the North ,including Donegal.I regularly wait months for repairs in Newcastle. This may involve long debates with the manufacturer in Munich.
7 Ecarni.com seem to operate on a shoestring with only 3 or 4 staff,out of Belfast,with little to no feedback on flagging faults on their map etc.
8 On the plus side, Renault do supply a free CP at home which up here is 32Amp, I believe ESB only supply 16 Amp, taking twice as long to charge your vehicle. There is no road tax, and 5k off the price of the car.
Sadly there has been a major fault with the Zoe and a large number of Cps, NIE do not appear to be able to correct the fault, but then the electricity is still free in the street, and they have to loose 10% of their staff, so not terrible interested in a solution, I asked for the last 19 months.
There are many more issues, maybe you need two series? Good Luck.

Have to say that my experiences in the last 2 months have been mainly positive. 3 times were there two people charging before me and on one occasion a gentleman in a plug in Outlander kindly let me plug in to charge while he went into the Tesco to shop. I plugged him in after and started the charge for him. (isn't it nice to be nice ?) Just one word of caution, if you go away and someone says you can unplug them after xx amount of time then make sure they have the lock off or you will not be able to remove the plug or stop the charge.

I hear a lot of charge points, not sure whether standard of fast charge but seemingly the Zoe is killing some, though I'll probably get a lot of flack for saying this but I heard it first hand from one of the charge point engineers.

I too removed myself form Irishevowners and even though I own a leaf it was quiet sickening the fact some would not accept the leaf wasn't perfect.


Zoe has a brilliant charger and more and more ev's should have faster AC charging.

There's no point getting into a battle with the leaf V zoe, like any car, you either like it or don't but the Leccy motor in the zoe is leaps and bounds better than any under powered engine Renault normally stick into a Zoe sized car.

I did my research and I can tell you, it's EV for me from now on, I will not go back to petrol/diesel/hybrid ever again as my main car. Yes I will drive my partners diesel for the really long drives that is 100 + miles, or if we want to take a spin around the west coast, I just couldn't be bothered doing this in a leaf.

Credit where credit is due, the leaf is a fantastic car and it also has faults, the big one, range and I am willing to spend 15 mins a day to charge to complete my 85 mile round trip but I could do with 5-10 mins but i don;t like running the battery too low.

My leaf is doing more miles per day than the diesel !

I love driving with no exhaust, and passing petrol stations and putting that money instead into the car repayments. yes it does make me feel good and despite my electricity coming mainly from Gas and some wind it's still leaps and bounds cleaner than petrol/diesel especially when you consider the wasted electricity required to refine petrol and diesel is simply staggering and something people do not realise and this isn't even taking into account the energy required for oil extraction or transportation to/from the refinery.

My experience with the leaf is mainly positive and there have been and will be glitches in the charging infrastructure but it will get better and also the 2nd generation electrics will have a lot more range in just 2-3 years time and will greatly ease the burden on the electric network.

It is a shame Kia Ireland decided not to import the Kia Soul EV and decided for the Irish people that we don't want it, they don't even tell you it exists because they do not want to retrain and retool for electrics. I would urge people to ring Kia Ireland, not their local Kia dealer they will not be interested. The Kia is a very good car and i would have bought it only I can't but it's by far the best affordable EV available at this time !

But as I said, I will not go back to ICE ever again as my main car !