Getting Samoyed - dog or bitch??

Hi all. I hope to get a Samoyed in the next few weeks. However I'm not sure whether to get a dog or a bitch. I don't mean to come across the wrong way but I'll be hoping to either breed off a bitch, or let the dog for stud. I've done a small bit of research but looking for more advice. The bitch has to be at least 2 before you can breed, for registration purposes, right? Just say she had a litter of 6 pups, what kind of charges would I be looking at to cover vet fees, registration etc, before I sold them on? I have all the facilities, indoor kennels, heat lamps etc. I know there would be alot of work, but could someone give me details of what I should be prepared for, for those 8 weeks until they are ready to go? Would it be an awful lot less hassle to get a dog and let him out to stud for €150 a go - would that figure be right? Would the demand for it be there? Any help appreciated.
Thanks

Chris_Heilong

So times are hard and you are looking for a way to make some money?

See, i knew someone would have a smart comment to make...:mad:

Sigma Force

It's a fair point I mean making money out of them shouldn't be the first concern. Obviously if you do breed you need to know how much your pups are worth but you will not know that until the pups are born and not all the pups may be worth the same amount because some might be 'better' breed standard wise.
So it's hard to tell.

You need to talk to your vet at the time to see how much they charge, vet fees vary and some give a discount for larger numbers. But on average vaccinations can cost €40 plus (usually more) per pup not incl. kennel cough. Microchips have to be done which can be €40 per dog as well.
Good quality food like Burns can cost anything from €47 ish to €57 for a 15kg bag. Then there's worming and unforseen costs.

A good responsible breeder that gets everything in order won't make much money out of pups, and people don't have the money anymore to buy dogs ..well some people do but in general you might find it difficult to sell pups.

At a guess and totally depending on what your own vet would charge each pup could cost you (providing you fully vaccinate..I don't understand how some breeders think it's ok to half vaccinate a pup) just over €130 but perhaps a breeder on here can give a clearer picture of costs.

No offence but your post does come across a little like money is the priority in breeding so you might get some stick for that. The main thing is to research the breed and ensure you have the time and money should anything go wrong eg C section, health issues etc.

Cherry Blossom

slookie wrote: »

See, i knew someone would have a smart comment to make...:mad:

You don't even own a dog yet and you are already counting the profits I'm not sure what sort of reaction you were expecting tbh.

If I were going to get a samoyed you can be sure that both parents were top quality, these aren't a working breed as such so that would mean champion show dogs, have you shown dogs before? You might have to wait years for a pup of this standard to become available to you unless you already have contacts and it's unlikely you would get a choice of male/female. You then have to wait till the pup is fully grown before you would actually know if its any good for breeding, you'd have to do your research on genetic problems prevalent in the breed and have full testing done for these prior to even considering breeding. Then you have to find a suitable mate, which is much harder than you think. (Do you know anything about the inbreeding coefficient?). If you aren't willing to do all this, you have no business breeding pedigree dogs imho.

All of this doesn't make you a breeder of champion show dogs either, just ordinary run of the mill pets, all this does is ensure that you aren't palming off sickly dogs on unsuspecting potential owners of the dogs you produce. Money doesn't come into it all, it will cost you a fortune, more than you could ever hope to make back from 'sales'.

adrenalinjunkie

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

You don't even own a dog yet and you are already counting the profits .

I actually have 2 other dogs. A boxer bitch and a boxer cross that are both neutered.


I'm not looking for a champion show dog...just a normal samoyed...doesnt have to be a show dog!

DBB

I'd suggest you give Samoyed Rescue a call and see how many unwanted Sammies she's rehoming, it'll give you an idea of the demand, and the amount of people who get rid of them within 24 months of buying them. Not that this matters to the people who bred them, as they've already made their money.
Now that I think of it, they're not a breed whose health problems are familiar to me. For my own info OP, would you mind giving me a rundown of some of the more common conditions they're prone to? Thanks!

Cherry Blossom

slookie wrote: »

I actually have 2 other dogs. A boxer bitch and a boxer cross that are both neutered.


I'm not looking for a champion show dog...just a normal samoyed...doesnt have to be a show dog!

Yes, that's what I thought, a 'normal' (pet-quality) samoyed isn't suitable for breeding at all, and shouldn't be bred from. It would be great if you could clarify what your motivation for breeding is if it's not for profit, I can't think of any other reason why someone would breed from a pet tbh.

Zapperzy

slookie wrote: »

I actually have 2 other dogs. A boxer bitch and a boxer cross that are both neutered.


I'm not looking for a champion show dog...just a normal samoyed...doesnt have to be a show dog!

If your intent on breeding and not showing at least get someone who is experienced with the breed to look over the dog and see if it has any major faults which would disqualify it from the ring.

I'm not sure what specific health problems samoyeds can suffer from thats for you to research but I would imagine at the very least parents should be hipscored before breeding. Regardless of whether you are breeding show quality or 'pet' quality pups (of which we already have way way too many of in Ireland being abandoned and put down every day) they should be healthy pups, and the only way you can ensure this is through health testing and not just a once over by a vet.

Say you get a bitch, you don't show her nor health test her, the only type of stud dog your going to get for her is an an unhealth-tested, unshown dog. Owners of health tested, successfully shown dogs are not going to want to use their studs on your bitch. The exact same goes for if you get a dog and plan on using him for stud. At the very least you should health test and only breed the dog to other health tested dogs (when the results show the dog is healthy of course).

What sort of a breeder are you buying this pup from? Are they themselves health testing or showing?

andreac

Slookie, can i ask your reason for wanting to breed your dog or bitch? You dont even know whether you want a dog or bitch yet have plans to breed either if or when you get them.

I own both a male and female rottweiler, both of which i show very successfully around Ireland at Championship shows. My male is fully health tested and is an Irish Champion, and is qualified for Crufts and has been used at stud, once, yes only once and he is nearly 5 years old. I have only ever been asked once to use him at stud and im am involved in dog showing in a big way and my male rottie is currently the top male rottweiler in Ireland. Do you see where im going with this??
What im trying to say is there isnt a market there for pedigree dogs, far from it actually so what makes you think you feel the need to breed from yours before you even show, health test etc etc?

I also have a female who is still only 14 months so is far too young for breeding. I still have to health test her and hopefully successfully show her to be a champion which is a very long, difficult and expensive process.

The thoughts of breeding her is nowhere on my list of things i plan to do unless i know i can def home at least 8-10 puppies. I would only be considering breeding her, if I am definately keeping a puppy or 2 from her to continue on hers and my males lines.

So can you see the point im trying to make?? Just because you own a pedigree doesnt mean you have to breed it and even more so if its only a pet, that should be the last thing on your mind.

Leave breeding to the experts and for fully health tested and superior quality dogs. The are more than enough pets around without adding to the problem of unwanted dogs.

So ye all mean to tell me that every dog for sale on Donedeal, for example, has been through this process? Showing, and health testing etc....I would seriously doubt it. Id bet only a small percentage would be!

andreac

slookie wrote: »

So ye all mean to tell me that every dog for sale on Donedeal, for example, has been through this process? Showing, and health testing etc....I would seriously doubt it. Id bet only a small percentage would be!

No they havent, and that is EXACTLY the reason i never, ever recommend anyone to buy a dog off that site, i actually despise it:mad:

Most of the dogs advertised on that site are from back yard breeders and puppy farmers and the amount of ridiculous designer breeds is disgusting to say the least.

So tell me again, why do you want to breed??

Cherry Blossom

slookie wrote: »

So ye all mean to tell me that every dog for sale on Donedeal, for example, has been through this process? Showing, and health testing etc....I would seriously doubt it. Id bet only a small percentage would be!

No, actually very few if any have, a lot of them however do end up keeping the vets in big houses and fancy cars. It's not really that hard to understand.

If top quality bitch x top quality sire over the course of 3 litter gives 1 top quality pup, 1 average show quality pup and 16 decent pet quality pups then random pet bitch x random pet sire gives you what exactly??

If course you are going to do what you want anyway, I have no interest in breeding dogs and very little interest in showing, but I will not hand over money to anyone who has less regard for a pup they are selling me than I do. Morally I wouldn't have the stomach for selling anything dodgy on to some poor unsuspecting muppet whether its partly their own fault or not, be it a dog, car or anything else. Maybe that's just me though!

Point proven. So the thousands of people advertising on donedeal are all wrong.

toadfly

slookie wrote: »

Point proven. So the thousands of people advertising on donedeal are all wrong.

Vast majority are, yes.

andreac

slookie wrote: »

Point proven. So the thousands of people advertising on donedeal are all wrong.

You havent proven any point but we have outlined the type of people that breed that are on that site, and if you go ahead and breed you will be just the same as those on that site.

Ill ask you again, why do you want to breed?

Cherry Blossom

slookie wrote: »

Point proven. So the thousands of people advertising on donedeal are all wrong.

Unfortunately the thousands of people unethically breeding dogs are what have caused the huge mess that virtually all pedigree breeds are in today, not just those that advertise on donedeal, but worldwide . It is also what fuels the massive anti-pedigree dog 'movement'. I for one think it worth trying to save what is left of them by putting a bit of thought into it. In my case that's going to be limited to where I source my pets from, but all anyone can do is the best within their own limits.

carwash_2006

slookie wrote: »

Point proven. So the thousands of people advertising on donedeal are all wrong.

So if 100 people jumped off a cliff you would happily follow without question?

Why do you think we have such a large overpopulation problem in our pounds?

MarthaMyDear

slookie wrote: »

Hi all. I hope to get a Samoyed in the next few weeks. However I'm not sure whether to get a dog or a bitch. I don't mean to come across the wrong way but I'll be hoping to either breed off a bitch, or let the dog for stud. I've done a small bit of research but looking for more advice. The bitch has to be at least 2 before you can breed, for registration purposes, right? Just say she had a litter of 6 pups, what kind of charges would I be looking at to cover vet fees, registration etc, before I sold them on? I have all the facilities, indoor kennels, heat lamps etc. I know there would be alot of work, but could someone give me details of what I should be prepared for, for those 8 weeks until they are ready to go? Would it be an awful lot less hassle to get a dog and let him out to stud for €150 a go - would that figure be right? Would the demand for it be there? Any help appreciated.
Thanks

Money-wise, it's probably cheaper to let the dog for stud as there's not a lot of profit in selling puppies in this day and age. Even then, people looking for dogs for stud are also quite hard to find.

Just as an example,a friend of mine has 2 Bichon Frise and a few years ago she was breeding them and selling them for hundreds. She put one into pup last year and she had to give away two of the pups for free as nobody was willing to pay money for them. If you were determined to get one or the other, I would get a male. Puppies that do not have the relevant health checks etc are hard to sell! I really wouldn't recommend any aspect of breeding at the moment!

Maybe get a Samoyed as a pet, they are lovely dogs. You could try advertising him for stud but I'm not sure if it would be worth your while!

carwash_2006

But even if you are just advertising for stud you should have all the relevant health checks done or else you are basically facilitating backyard breeding and are a part of running down the general health of some of our pedigree breeds. Not to mention assisting unhealthy pups into the world that could lead miserable lives and bankrupt their owners while breaking their hearts.

Breeding should never be considered a for profit venture.

Also if you are not showing to a champion level you are very unlikely to have people interested in your stud except where they want to make a quick buck off dubious quality pups.

Thanks for the last 2 replies!

andreac

slookie wrote: »

Thanks for the last 2 replies!

I give up, dont know why we bother...:mad:

They replied to the questions I asked. That is the purpose of this board. And you can sleep tight...I've decided to get a male, and possibly stud him after a few years.

andreac

slookie wrote: »

They replied to the questions I asked. That is the purpose of this board. And you can sleep tight...I've decided to get a male, and possibly stud him after a few years.

Well good luck with that, im sure you will make a fortune on an un health tested, not shown, un proven pet Sammie, they will be queuing up to use your dog, not....:rolleyes:

Yup I'm sure your right...that's why there's hardly none for sale on donedeal! You can't solve all the world's little problems!

DBB

Any thoughts yet, OP, on telling me a little more about the inherited conditions Sammies tend to suffer from?

Look, I hope what's been said here can talk you out of what is, IMO, an ill-considered decision.
It's just that, for me, I can't help feeling angry at people who breed for the hell of it/for money/without knowledge of the breed etc. My anger is not just for ethical reasons such as the horrendous dog overpopulation problem they are directly spewing pups into, the fact that once the pup is sold, the door is closed, the fact that one more ill-informed member of the public is duped into buying a crap quality dog for a stupid amount of money. That all annoys me.
But what really annoys me, OP, is that I run a rescue, and every year I work myself to a wreck, completely voluntarily, to mop up the mess created by the likes of breeders and the outlet Donedeal provides them.
I'm the one who has to watch the humiliated owner surrender the dog they can't manage because the breed is entirely unsuitable for them (a good breeder wouldn't have sold them a pup. A donedealer doesn't care).
I'm the one who has to rehabilitate the DOZENS, yes DOZENS of dogs that are completely untrained, neglected, filthy, often with health problems, that were originally bought from Donedeal.
I'm the one who has to pay to keep each dog until I rehome him.
I'm the one who has to trundle over to the vets to get them neutered, vaccinated, microchipped, and patched up if they're sick. And pay for it.
I'm the one who has to organise the home visits that should have been done when the dog was a puppy, by their breeder.
I'm the one who has to drive all over the country picking them up, bringing them to the vet, bringing them to foster homes, bringing them to their new homes.
I'm the one who makes the dozens of calls every week to make sure my recently-adopted dogs are settling in okay.
I'm the one who, every Monday monring (it's always mad after the weekend), takes another barrage of calls from people who can't keep their dog any more.
"Where'd you find your dog's breeder?" I always ask
"Online" about 90% of them say.
"Donedeal?" I ask.
"Yes", they say, often followed by "Never again."
All voluntarily. At my own expense. And I also have to work, pay my mortgage etc, just like everyone else.

Remembering that I am one person on my own, there are many, many more rescues out there just like me.

So, if you'll excuse me, it is very difficult not to get annoyed at the posts you're making.
You, and breeders on that site, exhaust me, literally. If only every ad on donedeal could go towards paying me a wage to do breeders' dirty work for them... Not that I could accept it.. it's dirty money.
People like me are desperately trying to save the production line of pups, it's like trying to empty a bath with a thimble. Then these online sites, and the outlet they provide to profit-driven breeders, just keep turning the tap.
Good luck to you OP. If you'd like to PM me I can give you the details of the Sammie Rescue lady I know... you could give her number out to the buyers of your pups for when they need it.
Sigh.

andreac

They might be for sale or advertised, doesnt mean they are actually getting the money for them. There are loads of dogs being given away as they cant sell them.
If thats the reason you want to stud your dog then shame on you, and i dont care if i get a ban for saying that. The country is in the state its in with animal welfare because people like you want to breed just because and because you think theres money to be made.:mad:

You are just as bad as those back yard breeders if thats the route you are going down.:mad:

DBB

slookie wrote: »

Yup I'm sure your right...that's why there's hardly none for sale on donedeal! You can't solve all the world's little problems!

Wow.
Well, you know what they say about arguing with a fool.
Or wrestling a pig.

Cherry Blossom

Unfortunately it's a cold fact of life that as long as people are making decent music, designing decent clothes and breeding quality pets there are always going to be chancers producing knock offs. Personally my biggest problem with the whole thing is that there are tight laws in place for the first two examples there, I've never seen a child have their heart broken because adidas is spelt wrong on their trainers :rolleyes:.

It's not surprising I gave up on most of the human race a long time ago.

Zapperzy

slookie wrote: »

They replied to the questions I asked. That is the purpose of this board. And you can sleep tight...I've decided to get a male, and possibly stud him after a few years.

Are you going to health test or are you just thinking of the money? Because if it's just for the money sadly your just contributing to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6xI7xt99zA&feature=related

slookie wrote: »

Yup I'm sure your right...that's why there's hardly none for sale on donedeal! You can't solve all the world's little problems!

I'm speechless at your last line. You can't solve all of the worlds problems so you just contribute to them instead. :mad: Hell you could apply that to anything.
In my last post I tried to help, suggest health testing etc. are you going to listen to any of that?

ISDW

slookie wrote: »

Yup I'm sure your right...that's why there's hardly none for sale on donedeal! You can't solve all the world's little problems!

Classic. So you know that overpopulation of badly bred dogs is a problem, and you want to add to it. Your dog is going to be so lucky to have you, as you're such a caring person, but hey, as long as you make a couple of hundred euros, all is well with the world.

Wonder how your plans will pan out if animal welfare and dog breeding legislation does come in before your stunning dog is ready for studding? Better keep the number for Samoyed rescue handy, so that you can get rid of your dog when you realise you can't make any money off him. Maybe just think about it logistically - you will pay a few hundred for a pup (probably not too much though, as no reputable breeder will sell to you, so your dog with be from a puppy farm) then you will have to pay the vets fees and food bills for the dog's life. Unless you are pimping your dog out every couple of months, you aren't going to make any money off him. The only people who will be willing to use him are bybs and puppy farmers, and why would they want to pay someone money when they can have their own sire in their shed and use him whenever they want?

I truly love your logic. If hundreds of people do something ethically and morally wrong, then its okay for you to do it as well. How many people are in prison for breaking the law? But if they did it, surely its okay for everyone else to do it too? Very childish way of living your life.

Squirm

I have a question relating to Donedeal and I don't wish to derail the thread, but because it is relating to Sammys and to Donedeal, I thought the OP might still be interested in the answers.

I was on this site several months ago, as I am building a house and when it is completed I wist to get a dog. I have two breeds in mind and have been doing extensive research on both. I have now 100% decided upon a Samoyed.

I don't wish to get him until next summer, but I know that reputable breeders don't have a constant supply of pups and often (of not always) have waiting lists. So I am doing my research etc now, with that in mind.

I have the name of a couple of breeders and am fortunate to know a friend of a friend, who is a very highly regarded breeder. I have also taken a look at Donedeal and, of course, there are tons of Sammys for sale there to. They range in price from 100e (!!!!) to 450e. The majority of them claim to be IKC registered, vaccinated, wormed, chipped, etc etc etc and a few claim to have hip scoring done. The price for these dogs, that seem to have all the necessary testing completed, still varies dramatically.#

Obviously not every single breeder on Donedeal is a puppy farmer or an unscrupulous byb. I have seen one particular advertisment that does not ring any alarm bells for me. They are asking for 350e and the dog will apparently be hip scored etc etc but NOT health tested. It will come with a few months pet insurance and it has been reared thus far in a family environment important to me). Both parents can be seen and the ad states that prospective buyers MUST come to their house to be 'vetted' and to see the parents etc. It sounds above board and the photos don't reveal anything suspect (like mixed aged puppies in the background). I am unsure as to whether I can link the ad here, as it isn't always permitted on threads.

Anyway, my query is how people feel about an ad such as this and a breeder such as this? My only reservation is that they are releasing the pups at 8wks, whereas I have found more reputable breeders seem to hold on to them until 10wks +. The dogs are probably not show champions but if they are healthy and in good condition, would I be wrong to opt for a puppy such as these ones, on the grounds that they are advertised on Donedeal and are competitively priced?... Thoughts?...

Sorry again, for derailing. I just think it may be relevant to the thread content, if not necessarily the OP.

Cherry Blossom

Squirm wrote: »

They are asking for 350e and the dog will apparently be hip scored etc etc but NOT health tested. It will come with a few months pet insurance and it has been reared thus far in a family environment important to me). Both parents can be seen and the ad states that prospective buyers MUST come to their house to be 'vetted' and to see the parents etc. It sounds above board and the photos don't reveal anything suspect (like mixed aged puppies in the background). I am unsure as to whether I can link the ad here, as it isn't always permitted on threads.

Two main points to note:

1. Some unscrupulous types have now copped on to the fact that people are becoming more educated and are faking 'papers', some are saying registered but are registering with Canine Ireland, not the IKC.

2. As has already been mentioned on this thread some reputable breeders are now having a lot of trouble finding homes for perfectly good pups.

The bold part there - what do you mean exactly by NOT health-tested, if anyone is telling you their dogs are hip-scored but not health-tested I would be wary as hip-scoring is one of the genetic health tests that exists. Ask what the scores are, ask where they were tested and contact the vet who allegedly tested them to verify you are being told the truth. Then find out what an acceptable score is for breeding for the particular breed. I started a thread with some info on health-testing a while back - which is here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=73167699

It never really took off but there are some good links there. My first port of call would always be the breed clubs who can advise you on ideal scores etc.

<Edit> - changed breed club to clubs because I contacted every one for the breed in the British Isle!

DBB

Hi squirm,
There are people here who've got perfectly good dogs from perfectly good breeders via that site. There are loads more who've been stung, but it's not impossible to find a genuine breeder who isn't aware of the online-selling problem.
Let's face it, there is an average of 96 new litters advertised on that site in any one 24 hour period... By the law of averages a few of them must be ok.
Just as an FYI, all ikc registered pups come with free insurance for a certain period of time (it's been ages since I bought a pup so can't remember exactly how long!)
A lot of the ads say the pups are home-reared, they've cottoned on that's what people want to hear. But weepy eyes, ear mites, harvest mites, fleas, and fearful disposition give away the truth.
However, if you think they're bona fide, why not do all the checks you'd do anyway? Go visit them now and meet the pups without the intention of choosing one. Make sure you're happy, that the pups feel like they 'belong' inside, get a feel for the relationship between owner and all the dogs. Any doubts, walk away... Listen to the little voice within if it's nagging you!
And ask the searching questions. I'd be very up front and ask why they advertise online. You seem to be being very sensible about all of this, and are to be applauded for that. I truly hope it all works out for you!
No matter who you go to for a pup, it's buyer beware. When buying online, it's buyer even more beware!

Cherry Blossom

Sorry, (me again :rolleyes:)

Lot's of advice on what to look for in this thread as well:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056235625

As for the age of pups, I personally think 9 weeks is the optimum age to take a pup if you have a choice in it, depends on the individual circumstances though, it's likely my next pup will be coming from the UK so it will be at least a week after 2nd vaccs because of the distance and travel involved.

planetX

Is the OP planning to buy his pup on donedeal? It will be interesting to see if he still plans to put him to stud in a couple of years when any genetic problems have come to light. How can it be possible to plan breeding a dog you don't even have yet??? Obviously these people have never had the misfortune and costs of a pet with inherited joint problems:mad:

snowy two

Just reading through this thread and it makes me sick its all about making money out of samoyeds i have samoyeds myself and i would never have them for making money out of them they are such fantastic very effectionate pets if i was too have a dog too make money out of it i wouldnt there not money making machines. As far as done deal goes there is some perfectly good pedigree healthy samoyeds on it and just because the dogs arent winning at championship shows with the state of the economy lots of people wouldnt be able too afford to go most people are just concentrating on looking after their dogs properly through the recession as far as breeding goes i wouldnt even think about it because the market just isnt there.

lrushe

snowy two wrote: »

As far as done deal goes there is some perfectly good pedigree healthy samoyeds on it and just because the dogs arent winning at championship shows...

The point of showing is to preserve the standard of a breed, that standard created the Samoyed you own and love today, to disregard this and stray from the standard is to disrespect the breed.
Showing is not some snewty, point scoring operation there is a very important purpose behind it and is not a step that should be skipped by breeders.

Squirm

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Two main points to note:

1. Some unscrupulous types have now copped on to the fact that people are becoming more educated and are faking 'papers', some are saying registered but are registering with Canine Ireland, not the IKC.

2. As has already been mentioned on this thread some reputable breeders are now having a lot of trouble finding homes for perfectly good pups.

The bold part there - what do you mean exactly by NOT health-tested, if anyone is telling you their dogs are hip-scored but not health-tested I would be wary as hip-scoring is one of the genetic health tests that exists. Ask what the scores are, ask where they were tested and contact the vet who allegedly tested them to verify you are being told the truth. Then find out what an acceptable score is for breeding for the particular breed. I started a thread with some info on health-testing a while back - which is here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=73167699

It never really took off but there are some good links there. My first port of call would always be the breed clubs who can advise you on ideal scores etc.

<Edit> - changed breed club to clubs because I contacted every one for the breed in the British Isle!

In relation to the dogs being hip tested but not health tested... that might be MY misunderstanding. I was doing some research on a Irish Samoyed Club website and received a small list of Irish breeders. It was possible to filter the list by selecting only breeders that health tested their dogs, however, when I did this, the site said there were no matches- i.e. none of the recommended breeders do a comprehensive health test. This made me think that getting the dogs hips scored and getting a full health screening, were two seperate things. I may well be wrong- it appears I am!! So apologies there.

I would only be happy to adopt my puppy from a family that is on hand to provide support to me following the purchase and who cares as much about the health of the puppy I am bringing home as I do. I would be prepared to visit and view Donedeal puppies, if I felt they were genuine, ethical breeders and will do so. I will also source breeders recommended through other avenues.

I find it thoroughly and absolutely immoral to breed dogs with the sole intention of making money.

Sookie, I don't wish to be judgemental and perhaps your intentions were misunderstood in writing and via your posts here. My gran and other family members have been avid breeders for decades (westies) and they have all enjoyed immensely this hobby. For them, my gran in particular, it was a hobby that demanding all of her time and attention and that she adored. She loved bringing the puppies into the world and matching them with suitable families and receiving updates on how they were doing. She loved meeting these owners years later at shows etc and seeing 'her' pups doing well and thriving. She did make a profit on each sale, but on a number of occasions was unable to home every dog. Thankfully there was always a family member on hand to adopt one, and she was more than happy to keep another puppy if she had to.

I was wondering though- do you think that breeding Samoyeds is a good idea because there are already lots for sale online? I got that impression from your posts. If so, surely that is a tad illogical...? If there are lots already for sale, why introduce more to the market?? Will you mind if your dog turns out to be unsuitable for studding? My gran certainly ended up with a Westie or two that was unsuitable for breeding, but they were loved family pets who she kept and adored regardless....

flahers

I am the owner of two Samoyeds, one we bought as a pup and the older dog we got two years ago from somebody who could no longer afford to care for him properly. These dogs need a lot of care and attention and are not for you if you cant afford to look after them properly. They require regular grooming as they have a double coat and shed like mad so you have to be very patient. They also require a lot of exercise (running around the garden is not enough). I spend 150 euros for both dogs to be groomed and one of my dogs has hip displasia so he is taking a joint supplement every day which costs us 80 euro every two months, luckily we are in a position to look after them well and in my opinion these dogs are family pets and I never got them with the intention of making money. Because of their coat they are not dogs that can be left outside in bad weather so you need to have the space inside for them in bad weather. In conclusion these dogs are so loveable and give so much affection so think twice before getting one unless you can devote all you time and attention to the dog.

ashblag

Sorry to barge in but just read this thread.

DBB your first post had me in tears, you do a fantastic job as do all rescues your love for animals and they're welfare really touched me. Well done x

To the OP you may think studding out the dog is a good idea but you may have no idea what is happening on the other side.

My mum adopted an ex-breeding Jack russell bitch a few years ago and one of her puppies. The pup was fine the mother was in an awfull state,took over a year to gain her trust in humans, dumped because only had two pups in last litter and she is only approx 4years.


THINK about what you're doing.....

Wisco

First of all DBB, I'd like to say that your long post a page back is excellent, and to say well done to you for all your good work. Everything you said about what happens to unwanted dogs is spot on.
As someone who works in the vet industry, when I hear a client say "I got it on Donedeal" I just cringe as I know that the pup we're about to see is less than healthy. Now, some buyers do get lucky with a reasonably healthy and well looked after pup, but if I see something sickly, I can nearly guess where it came from 90% of the time (donedeal).
If only people would THINK about what happens to all these unwanted dogs, I would hope welfare would improve. Putting a healthy animal to sleep is a very unpleasant experience, and I know this from my own work life. If there is one aspect of my job I dislike, it's that- a sick or old animal who is suffering is one thing, but a young and playful dog- well, there are no words to describe how that makes me feel :mad:

The Sweeper

The 'hip scored but not health tested' - you can't hip score a puppy. Hip scoring should be done on the parents before breeding. You can sell a pup from hip scored parents and cite their scores as a hopeful guarantee of the pup's soundness, but you can't produce a hip score cert for a pup (and if someone selling you a pup decides to produce one for that pup, it's a fake).

So if donedeal is full of cowboys, where do ye suggest getting a pup? Is there a Samoyed rescue place in the country?

ISDW

slookie wrote: »

So if donedeal is full of cowboys, where do ye suggest getting a pup? Is there a Samoyed rescue place in the country?

You contact the breed club through the IKC, and the chances are you will be put on a waiting list for a pup. Rescues very seldom gets pups in, and they will insist on the pup being neutered/spayed when it is old enough, so that it cannot be bred from.

DBB

There is a woman who runs a rescue for the breed, but like all good rescues and as ISDW says, all dogs are neutered before they're rehomed.
Rescues are trying to clean up the mess, not trying to contribute to it by letting entire dogs go to new homes.
It's not a way to get a cheap breeding dog. There's no cheap way to do it if it's to be done properly.

Cherry Blossom

slookie wrote: »

So if donedeal is full of cowboys, where do ye suggest getting a pup? Is there a Samoyed rescue place in the country?

Any Samoyed in rescue is likely to have originated in the same places, as said the rescue will not allow them to be bred from.

The Irish Samoyed dog club:

http://homepage.eircom.net/~sammyclub/

have a list of breeders in the country, it is possible that they will come with their paperwork endorsed so any pups from them are not allowed to be registered. You may also be asked to sign a contract stating that you will not breed from the dog, if you do they are likely to sue you for breech of contract and take the dog back.

If you are dead set on breeding the breeder can have the endorsements removed if the dog has been tested etc. and has been proven to be of breeding quality.

One thing I can guarantee, if you come across the same way you have here you won't even get a reply to your inquiry, so I suggest you do all the groundwork before contacting them.

The Sweeper

Just thinking about it - if I wanted to buy a dog so I could own a dog and possibly make some money putting it at stud, I certainly wouldn't buy a spitz breed. In my head I'm picturing the amount of money slookie would have to spend on training, behaviour consultations, rectifying the damage, the life-overhaul to fit in training and exercise and so on, plus just the basic costs associated with the dog - that's a LOT of stud fees...

Knine

The Sweeper wrote: »

Just thinking about it - if I wanted to buy a dog so I could own a dog and possibly make some money putting it at stud, I certainly wouldn't buy a spitz breed. ...

Absolutely. The reason why the OP has not seen many Samoyeds for sale is that they are not the breed for everyone. You won't see many puppy farmers with spitz breeds either as they can make far more money by breeding smaller breeds such as CKC's, bicheons etc.

I feel one of the problems is that people see donedeal etc and think they could get a dog and use it for stud or for numerous litters just to make money.

I also use another website and a person was looking for free bedding for her litter, she mentioned that she didnt get to collect all the bedding offered last time round. It turned out that she had a pair of dogs and had bred the bitch non stop back to back litters with her male dog. After making loads of money from the dog she wouldnt even buy it some bedding. Disgusting.

I also know other people posing as rescues who then go on to breed from the dogs they rescue.:mad::mad:

DBB

The Sweeper wrote: »

Just thinking about it - if I wanted to buy a dog so I could own a dog and possibly make some money putting it at stud, I certainly wouldn't buy a spitz breed. In my head I'm picturing the amount of money slookie would have to spend on training, behaviour consultations, rectifying the damage, the life-overhaul to fit in training and exercise and so on, plus just the basic costs associated with the dog - that's a LOT of stud fees...

Agreed. And a good point. However, the realistic side of me says that profit-driven breeders don't care if their dog needs training, behavioural help, or any other thing to improve the dog's welfare. After all, when the dog is shoved into a shed out of sight and out of mind, what matter if he barks a lot, chews stuff, develops stereotypies, etc?
However, you make a good point from the point of view of where the money is. I fully agree that if I wanted to make a profit from breeding, the Samoyed is not a breed the springs to mind as a big money maker. I've a fair idea what breeds make the money for profiteers, but the Sammie ain't one of them!;)

Knine

The IKC needs to cop on as well and stop registering back to back litters.