Scopes tax

HarryGorman

Hi gang,

Im a long time reader but just registered to ask about the craic on importing scopes from the US. I orderd a scope last night around the 900 dollar price from ebay. Im wondering now what should I expect in relation to tax and VAT?

BTW: I searched before I asked and I couldnt find any recent posts on the topic. Most where from last year and the year before.

Thanks

Harry Gorman

lb1981

HarryGorman wrote: »

Hi gang,

Im a long time reader but just registered to ask about the craic on importing scopes from the US. I orderd a scope last night around the 900 dollar price from ebay. Im wondering now what should I expect in relation to tax and VAT?

BTW: I searched before I asked and I couldnt find any recent posts on the topic. Most where from last year and the year before.

Thanks

Harry Gorman

.You prob should have bought from a us site rather than ebay ,lot of fake stuff on there.

Cass

Welcome to boards.

If the scope makes it through both the export from the states and import here then the average rate of tax is 21% for VAT, and 4.7% excise duty.

Norwayviking

lb1981 wrote: »

.You prob should have bought from a us site rather than ebay ,lot of fake stuff on there.

I have bought all my stuff on ebay,never gotten any fake items.:D
And i am sure there is cooperation between the US customs and the Irish customs,so i would stay by the rules.
And i just bought a scope on ebay as well,but it was reurned to seller again by US customs,demanding 2500$ in export!!!:eek:
They obviously have this thing for scopes with mildot.
Luckily i have a brother working in the US at the moment,he will bring it with him when he returns.:D
So lesson learned,in the future shop in Ireland,Norway or within the EU ONLY.;)

the_syco

What scope was it?

Norwayviking

the_syco wrote: »

What scope was it?

A sightron siii 8-32x56 mil\mil scope.

HarryGorman

Ezridax wrote: »

Welcome to boards.

If the scope makes it through both the export from the states and import here then the average rate of tax is 21% for VAT, and 4.7% excise duty.

Is that euros or dollars?

I think it will be grand, the chap has great feedback 98% and a ton of sales over the past 2 years and he said he has shipped all over the world. But that aside, what causes a scope not to make it through as you put it?

the_syco

Norwayviking wrote: »

A sightron siii 8-32x56 mil\mil scope.

Coolio. Should've quoted the OP, as I was wondering which scope he was ordering from the USA, as opposed to here or the UK to avoid getting pwned by the tax man...

Norwayviking

HarryGorman wrote: »

Is that euros or dollars?

I think it will be grand, the chap has great feedback 98% and a ton of sales over the past 2 years and he said he has shipped all over the world. But that aside, what causes a scope not to make it through as you put it?

I believe scopes with milspec used by US forces,and some American made with mildots seems to be hard to get trough customs.:)
But i dont know if this goes by state or all over US.
I was told when i bought my scope by the seller that he had export license to ship to Ireland,but as you can see on my post above,that just didnt happen:mad:
Now my brother is briniging it back from the US instead.

HarryGorman

Sorry didnt realise that was meant for me.

Its a zeiss conquest 4.5-14x50... what with that and one or two other bits its all comming to about $900.

Norwayviking

HarryGorman wrote: »

Sorry didnt realise that was meant for me.

Its a zeiss conquest 4.5-14x50... what with that and one or two other bits its all comming to about $900.

Dont think that should be a problem though,i got a zeiss 6,5-20x50 from the states trough ebay in the post last year.:)

Cass

HarryGorman wrote:

Is that euros or dollars?

Euro.

But that aside, what causes a scope not to make it through as you put it?

There seems to be a clamp down on exports from the states in that some models/brands of scopes are not being permitted to be exported. This is not the vendors but the Gov. in the states stopping them at the point of shipping.

Ebay could be a different story. The second part is the Irish customs are also increasing their checking of all packages and parcels. You may get a VAT & Duty bill or it could go through without be checked.

landkeeper

i bought something else sporting related from the states earlier in the year that came to a value of approx 900 dollars it cost 342 euro in import duty and charges before i could get it :mad:

HarryGorman

Ezridax wrote: »

There seems to be a clamp down on exports from the states in that some models/brands of scopes are not being permitted to be exported. This is not the vendors but the Gov. in the states stopping them at the point of shipping.

Not trying to open a can of worms here, honestly

But 3 questions.

1) Any chance of a link which tells which companies/scopes/models/brands are on the "no" list.

2) Would the scope company who gets put on a black list not be the slightest little bit peed off that now he cant sell online... while other companys can?

3) Are black listed companies accepting this and getting on with business or are they doing/trying to do something about it?

HarryGorman

Norwayviking wrote: »

Dont think that should be a problem though,i got a zeiss 6,5-20x50 from the states trough ebay in the post last year.:)

Mind me asking, did you get hit on the tax and VAT coming from ebay?

Norwayviking

HarryGorman wrote: »

Mind me asking, did you get hit on the tax and VAT coming from ebay?

Actually not,this one slipped trough without.:D
But i have had other items bought from ebay recent,that i had to pay tax and VAT on.

zeissman

If the scope is coming from the US the person sending it will have to get a export licence first.
If they send it without one you risk losing it.
Expect to pay around 180 euro on vat and import duty etc.

Cass

HarryGorman wrote: »

1) Any chance of a link which tells which companies/scopes/models/brands are on the "no" list.

Unfortunately there is no "list". To top it off some vendors are sending, some will noe send, some are getting through, and some are not. Its still hit and miss. Off the top of my head some of the higher end ones seem to be getting it worse than others such as, Nightforce, S&B, Leupold, Burris.

2) Would the scope company who gets put on a black list not be the slightest little bit peed off that now he cant sell online... while other companys can?

Possibly. The thing it companies such as Nightforce, etc have a strict no export policy as there are vendors in Europe. The thing is some vendors will recognise that there is a big European market that are sick of paying over the odds and will chance it on. Others will not risk loosing their dealership/franchise of a particular brand.

3) Are black listed companies accepting this and getting on with business or are they doing/trying to do something about it?

So far as i've heard the companies have not gotten any grief although hearing about it may be impossible in Ireland. If the scope manufacturers hear of it they may pull the franchises from the vendors but again we may never hear of it.

I've noticed an increase on company websites stating NO Shipping to Ireland/out of the US.

I'm not trying to scare you or say you won't get your scope. You will get it either with or without paying the taxes. The whole issue of shipping is another matter that may not have any relevance to you with this order, but may if anyone else is ordering from a "Large/ known" vendor.

No point in worrying about it. Just wait and see what happens.

HarryGorman

Right. Well theres something new learned for today.

Im not too worried about my own scope not coming, as the chap Im buying from has sold plenty and has had no issues so far.

Do you think the reason its so hit and miss would be linked to what sorta mood the customs lad is in when your scope arrives?

Cass

HarryGorman wrote: »

Do you think the reason its so hit and miss would be linked to what sorta mood the customs lad is in when your scope arrives?

Seems so.

There have been as many threads recently about lads having their goods seized either state side of here as there have been lads saying they gets their goods without a hitch.

Go figure.

Norwayviking

HarryGorman wrote: »

Do you think the reason its so hit and miss would be linked to what sorta mood the customs lad is in when your scope arrives?

Maybe you should avoid ringing them on a monday:D

landkeeper

i'd say it comes down to what time of night/day the stuff arrives

bravestar

For what its worth, I have noticed when buying bits and bobs for work, if the company (5.11, Hogue, Various holster companys) have a European dealer, then they will not ship directly outside the US and you have to go to their European reps.

Through ebay you may be able to buy the items from the US, as its not the company themselves selling it, but if it is one of the companys who's main site wont ship European, then you run the risk of having it seized.

I think opticsplanet have a list of brands they wont ship outside the US.

Grizzly 45

Ezridax wrote: »

To top it off . Off the top of my head some of the higher end ones seem to be getting it worse than others such as, Nightforce, S&B, Leupold, Burris.

Simple rule of thumb.If it has Mildot or simmilar,and is a high end scope brand .The company is more than likely is supplying the US Govt,and WILL NOT be easy to export.Ironically most of the scopes are available in the EU now,albeit at a slightly higher price,but without the inherient problems of export certs,customs dues etc.Which means your savings are almost negligible were you to DIY import it.

So far as i've heard the companies have not gotten any grief although hearing about it may be impossible in Ireland. If the scope manufacturers hear of it they may pull the franchises from the vendors but again we may never hear of it.

I've noticed an increase on company websites stating NO Shipping to Ireland/out of the US

.

Two of the biggest companies have fallen foul of this are Brownells and Cabelas.Nor was it scopes ,but bits and gunsmith parts.Cost them about a 250K fine,so they are very cautious about sending anything that might be considerd arms components[inc scopes] outside CONUS.
If the Feds will deal with two biggies like that ,how do you think a small mom&pop operation would fare??Hence a load of companies wont ship outside CONUS anymore.

Grizzly 45

bravestar wrote: »

For what its worth, I have noticed when buying bits and bobs for work, if the company (5.11, Hogue, Various holster companys) have a European dealer, then they will not ship directly outside the US and you have to go to their European reps.

Trouble is some of the companies like 5.11 dealerships in Europe and especially Ireland leave alot to be desired in PR or contactability to find a price or availability. Found www.extremeoutfitters.com to be a great shop for shipping outside the US,and in footwear or clothes it is worth the money to do so.

I think opticsplanet have a list of brands they wont ship outside the US

.
They do!:) And it seems to be just about everything!:(

bravestar

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

bravestar wrote: »

For what its worth, I have noticed when buying bits and bobs for work, if the company (5.11, Hogue, Various holster companys) have a European dealer, then they will not ship directly outside the US and you have to go to their European reps.

Trouble is some of the companies like 5.11 dealerships in Europe and especially Ireland leave alot to be desired in PR or contactability to find a price or availability. Found www.extremeoutfitters.com to be a great shop for shipping outside the US,and in footwear or clothes it is worth the money to do so.

I think opticsplanet have a list of brands they wont ship outside the US

.
They do!:) And it seems to be just about everything!:(

Yeah I hear what your satin about them leaving a bit to be desired alright...Thanks for the link, must check em out for some new combats

FISMA

HarryGorman wrote: »

Hi gang,

Im a long time reader but just registered to ask about the craic on importing scopes from the US. I orderd a scope last night around the 900 dollar price from ebay. Im wondering now what should I expect in relation to tax and VAT?

BTW: I searched before I asked and I couldnt find any recent posts on the topic. Most where from last year and the year before.

Thanks

Harry Gorman

Harry - have a look at an older thread that I posted here.

There's no firm list of scopes that can be shipped, however, I did find a few from Optics Planet.

In general, if the scope has a military application, like mildots, it will probably be a problem.

Additionally, if the company does business with the military, but also makes hunting gear, you may have a problem. I think some companies are trying to steer clear of a nebulous law and not risk their military contract. That is, however, pure speculation on my behalf.

Check out OpticsPlanet.com. If you are interested in a scope email them and ask if they'll ship to Ireland.

Some people have gotten a "yes we do ship to Ireland" only to have their order refused.

If you run into any problems I could always give them a call and see what's up.

I don't see why there would be a problem with Euro scopes like S&B, Zeiss, and the like.

Slan

Grizzly 45

Additionally, if the company does business with the military, but also makes hunting gear, you may have a problem. I think some companies are trying to steer clear of a nebulous law and not risk their military contract. That is, however, pure speculation on my behalf.

It's actually fact,not speculation.
Not so much a problem with the military ,but with State Dept and the ITAR regulations.Yes ,it does tie in to a certain with the military ,but not in the way you would think.
Every item that is used by the US military ,be it a bog roll to a Nuke has a milspec part number,and obviously this applies to equipment that is being purchased,tested and appraised.

So say,XYZ scope company makes two scopes that they think will be the ultimate sniper scope,one is a civvie deer hunting model and the other is a beefed up version of the civvie hunting scope.Both will get a mil test number and be tested to the point of destruction etc.The normal civvie scope fails and is rejected as unsuitable by all ,or one five branches of the US armed forces.You would think thats the end of it and the scope can be sold to the civvie pouplation...

Wrong!!!Because of that US mil test number it is now classified as a military piece of equipment,and the fact the civvie scope might only be slightly different,even to a few screws or paint job.It falls under ITAR rules for sale or export to the general pouplation.

So what does that mean for us?Simply put the money is too big for a scope company to risk losing a Govt contract by risking a sale of ONE of their products to the GP outside CONUS.After all,mistakes can be made and if some Pe^on down in the shipping dept accidently sends XYZ's top milspec scope out to Grizzly 45 ,Ireland instead of the equally good civvie model,and it is intercepted by customs or worse used against Uncle Sam somwhere...
They are looking at possibly car loads of gents arriving in suits and sunglasses and very short haircuts and absolutely no sense of humour at all,taking up residence in their office and going thru alot of paperwork with extremly fine toothcombs,and asking a lot of awkward questions!:eek:

Who wants or needs that hassle??Ditto this applies to the retail companies[say opticsplanet].So rather than risking any sort of trouble,it is better for them just not to sell anything remotely military or LE outside of CONUS.

Especially when you are dealing with an organisation like BATFE,who has the worst track record of any US govt branch ,including the IRS for corruption,incompetnce,dodgy charges and general skullduggery relating to firearms in the history of the USA?

Its just not worth the trouble to them!:(

I don't see why there would be a problem with Euro scopes like S&B, Zeiss, and the like.

If it isnt the above problem with some models,it will be the fact that Euro scopes have their parent companies over here and proably have a stipulation that their products cant be imported into the EU from their cheaper manufacturing plants in the USA.
Proably violating some US/EU trade agreements or the like:rolleyes:.

HarryGorman

Slightly off topic, and not going to be off much relevance to me unless my scope gets stopped (although if I knew then what I know now, I probably would have bought elsewhere). Im sure it would be helpful if we put together a list of places people can source scopes from.

I'll start with the few I know from researching for my own scope.

www.ebay.ca
www.ebay.co.uk

www.eurooptic.com
www.opticswarehouse.co.uk (redirects to www.scopesdirect.co.uk)
www.deben.com
www.sportsmanguncentre.co.uk
www.best4optics.co.uk
www.rmacleod.co.uk/optical.htm (I wasnt going to mention street corner RFD's but this guy has a huge selection and is based in Scotland, his stock list: www.rmacleod.co.uk/NEW%20RIFLESCOPES%20IN%20STOCK.pdf )
www.grahamsonline.co.uk
www.glasgowfieldsports.co.uk

Anybody know any more for that list?

arrowloopboy

You could always send it to someone you know stateside,they could then send it to you ,after putting a value and such like on it.
A scope is a scope while its packaged up ,be it a Swarovski Z6i or a swift.

Grizzly 45

US customs is already up on this kind of strawman purchase,and they have no sense of humour about it either.I doubt your friends would be very happy to call you a friend after getting a no knock warrent visit by the Fed Goons at 0400 in the AM.:eek:

landkeeper

optics warehouse wont ship to irelend

arrowloopboy

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

US customs is already up on this kind of strawman purchase,and they have no sense of humour about it either.I doubt your friends would be very happy to call you a friend after getting a no knock warrent visit by the Fed Goons at 0400 in the AM.:eek:

As long as i had me scope Grizzly ,it wouldn't be too bad:p:p:p.

Tackleberry.

Brand new out of the USA 2 weeks ago from ebay a Swarovski Z3 3x12-50 i paid 780 euro now thats a deal, i bought all my scopes bar one in the USA

burris black diamond tac plex (no tax)
Meopta airtimis or something like it #4 plex (caught for tax but still cheaper)
Zeiss conquest z plex(no tax)
Swarovski z3 #4plex(no tax)

all bought in the usa tru Ebay and all a great deal cheaper, bought a Nightforce up north vat free using vat number....
Only tip i can give is talk to the seller before you buy anything on fleeBay and knock a deal out with him before you buy anything.

arrowloopboy

Tackleberry. wrote: »

Brand new out of the USA 2 weeks ago from ebay a Swarovski Z3 3x12-50 i paid 780 euro now thats a deal, i bought all my scopes bar one in the USA

burris black diamond tac plex (no tax)
Meopta airtimis or something like it #4 plex (caught for tax but still cheaper)
Zeiss conquest z plex(no tax)
Swarovski z3 #4plex(no tax)

all bought in the usa tru Ebay and all a great deal cheaper, bought a Nightforce up north vat free using vat number....
Only tip i can give is talk to the seller before you buy anything on fleeBay and knock a deal out with him before you buy anything.

My point exactly Tackleberry,

Cabelas are doing the Z3 4-12x50 plex with Ballistic Turret for $1050,thats about 750 odd yoyos:D.

Theres a few guys on here with paranoia and think that big brother is constantly watching them:rolleyes:.

Its all very simple if you go about it right.

Grizzly 45

Until you or the people in the US get caught that is.Then it is a very different story..:rolleyes:
A ten thousand dollar fine and loss possibly of freedom seems abit much to me to save a few hundred euros.


From the US Immigrationand Customs enforcement websites.
[ emphasis mine]
July 21, 2011
Scranton, PA
Russian national sentenced on export smuggling charges
Conspired to smuggle military equipment abroad


SCRANTON, Pa. - A Russian national was sentenced Thursday for his role in a conspiracy to smuggle military equipment, including rifle scopes, magazines for firearms, face shields and other material out of the United States, in violation of the Arms Export Control Act.
Sergey Korznikov, 42, formerly of Moscow, Russia, was sentenced to six months in prison following an investigation by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI). He pleaded guilty to the charge in December 2010.
Korznikov and co-conspirator Mark Komoroski were charged with conspiring to smuggle military equipment from the United States to Russia to be resold to unknown individuals. Komoroski was sentenced in July 2010 to 32 months in prison and ordered to pay a $10,000 fine. He must also serve two years of supervised release.
"Today's sentencing again demonstrates HSI's commitment to stop the illegal movement of military technology out of the United States," said John P. Kelleghan, special agent in charge of the ICE HSI Philadelphia office. "Our nation's military technology has only one legitimate user - the thousands of men and women who protect our country at home and abroad."
The Internal Revenue Service Criminal Investigations Unit; Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives; U.S. Postal Inspection Service; Department of Commerce; Defense Criminal Investigative Service and Pennsylvania State Police also assisted in the investigation.


From the US Dept of Justice website.

Firearms Components to the United Kingdom [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]– On Feb. 8, 2011, a grand jury in the Middle District of Tennessee returned an indictment charging five individuals and a Nashville, Tenn., arms manufacturer with conspiracy to violate the Arms Export Control Act and other offenses in connection with the illegal export and import of firearms and firearms components. The indictment charged Guy Savage, of the United Kingdom, Sabre Defence Industries, LLC, a Nashville-based arms manufacturing company owned by Savage, as well as four officers of Sabre: Charles Shearon, Elmer Hill, Michael Curlett, and Arnold See, Jr. The indictment alleges that the defendants conspired to cause firearm components on the U.S. Munitions List to be exported from the United States without first obtaining authorization from the Department of State, by falsifying shipping records, concealing components in false bottoms of shipping cartons, and mislabeling and undervaluing shipments of firearm components. On March 28, 2011, four of the five defendants in the case, Shearon, Hill, Curlett, and See, pleaded guilty to charges in the case. The investigation was conducted by the ATF and ICE.
　
[Amazing that they did this as Sabre Defence had a multi million US DOD contract....Greed!]
[/FONT][/FONT]
Illegal Exports of Military Night Vision Technology to China, Singapore & U.K[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]. – On April 12, 2011, the Justice Department announced that a government motion to dismiss the remaining deferred criminal charge against ITT Corporation, the leading manufacturer of military night vision equipment for the U.S. Armed Forces, was granted by the court. On March 27, 2007, ITT
[/FONT][/FONT]Corporation pleaded guilty in the Western District of Virginia to two criminal counts of violating the Arms Export Control act stemming from its illegal exports of restricted military night vision data to China, Singapore, and the United Kingdom and omission of statements of material fact in required arms exports reports. As part of the plea agreement, ITT Corporation agreed to invest $50 million toward the development of the most advanced night vision systems in the world for the U.S. Armed Forces. The Justice Department agreed to dismiss the remaining criminal charge against ITT Corporation after ITT Corporation implemented an extensive remedial plan overseen by an independent monitor to prevent future Arms Export Control Act violations. ITT Corporation and the Justice Department will continue to work together to utilize resources set aside by the deferred prosecution agreement to further the development and fielding of the most advanced night vision technology. This investigation was conducted by DCIS and ICE

Combat Riflescopes Overseas [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]– On June 25, 2010, Chou-Fu Ho was arrested after being indicted in the Southern District of California on charges of smuggling and illegally exporting military night vision systems to various locations overseas without the required State Department licenses. According to the indictment Ho illegally exported to Hong Kong and Japan combat riflescopes listed on the U.S. Munitions List without obtaining the required export licenses. Ho also allegedly attempted to illegally export combat riflescopes to Ireland, Austria and the United Arab Emirates. The investigation was conducted by ICE and DCIS.
[/FONT][/FONT]Rifle Scopes to Russia [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]– On Sept. 11, 2008, a grand jury in the Middle District of Pennsylvania indicted Boris Gavrilov, D&B Compas Ltd, and Kiflet Arm on charges of illegally exporting military-grade and dual-use rifle scopes to Russia without the required U.S. government licenses. Gavrilov is believed to be a resident of Israel. D&B Compas is located in Israel, while Kiflet Arm is located in Humboldt, Texas. Extradition proceedings for Gavrilov have commenced. The investigation was conducted by ICE and BIS.
　
[/FONT][/FONT]Big brother IS watching all right!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: as said before these people have absolutely no sense of humour about this sort of carry on over there anymore.
Dont say ye wernt warned!:eek:

Tackleberry.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Until you or the people in the US get caught that is.Then it is a very different story..:rolleyes:
A ten thousand dollar fine and loss possibly of freedom seems abit much to me to save a few hundred euros.


From the US Immigrationand Customs enforcement websites.
[ emphasis mine]
July 21, 2011
Scranton, PA
Russian national sentenced on export smuggling charges
Conspired to smuggle military equipment abroad


SCRANTON, Pa. - A Russian national was sentenced Thursday for his role in a conspiracy to smuggle military equipment, including rifle scopes, magazines for firearms, face shields and other material out of the United States, in violation of the Arms Export Control Act.
Sergey Korznikov, 42, formerly of Moscow, Russia, was sentenced to six months in prison following an investigation by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI). He pleaded guilty to the charge in December 2010.
Korznikov and co-conspirator Mark Komoroski were charged with conspiring to smuggle military equipment from the United States to Russia to be resold to unknown individuals. Komoroski was sentenced in July 2010 to 32 months in prison and ordered to pay a $10,000 fine. He must also serve two years of supervised release.
"Today's sentencing again demonstrates HSI's commitment to stop the illegal movement of military technology out of the United States," said John P. Kelleghan, special agent in charge of the ICE HSI Philadelphia office. "Our nation's military technology has only one legitimate user - the thousands of men and women who protect our country at home and abroad."
The Internal Revenue Service Criminal Investigations Unit; Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives; U.S. Postal Inspection Service; Department of Commerce; Defense Criminal Investigative Service and Pennsylvania State Police also assisted in the investigation.


From the US Dept of Justice website.

Firearms Components to the United Kingdom [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]– On Feb. 8, 2011, a grand jury in the Middle District of Tennessee returned an indictment charging five individuals and a Nashville, Tenn., arms manufacturer with conspiracy to violate the Arms Export Control Act and other offenses in connection with the illegal export and import of firearms and firearms components. The indictment charged Guy Savage, of the United Kingdom, Sabre Defence Industries, LLC, a Nashville-based arms manufacturing company owned by Savage, as well as four officers of Sabre: Charles Shearon, Elmer Hill, Michael Curlett, and Arnold See, Jr. The indictment alleges that the defendants conspired to cause firearm components on the U.S. Munitions List to be exported from the United States without first obtaining authorization from the Department of State, by falsifying shipping records, concealing components in false bottoms of shipping cartons, and mislabeling and undervaluing shipments of firearm components. On March 28, 2011, four of the five defendants in the case, Shearon, Hill, Curlett, and See, pleaded guilty to charges in the case. The investigation was conducted by the ATF and ICE.
　
[Amazing that they did this as Sabre Defence had a multi million US DOD contract....Greed!]
[/FONT][/FONT]
Illegal Exports of Military Night Vision Technology to China, Singapore & U.K[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]. – On April 12, 2011, the Justice Department announced that a government motion to dismiss the remaining deferred criminal charge against ITT Corporation, the leading manufacturer of military night vision equipment for the U.S. Armed Forces, was granted by the court. On March 27, 2007, ITT
[/FONT][/FONT]Corporation pleaded guilty in the Western District of Virginia to two criminal counts of violating the Arms Export Control act stemming from its illegal exports of restricted military night vision data to China, Singapore, and the United Kingdom and omission of statements of material fact in required arms exports reports. As part of the plea agreement, ITT Corporation agreed to invest $50 million toward the development of the most advanced night vision systems in the world for the U.S. Armed Forces. The Justice Department agreed to dismiss the remaining criminal charge against ITT Corporation after ITT Corporation implemented an extensive remedial plan overseen by an independent monitor to prevent future Arms Export Control Act violations. ITT Corporation and the Justice Department will continue to work together to utilize resources set aside by the deferred prosecution agreement to further the development and fielding of the most advanced night vision technology. This investigation was conducted by DCIS and ICE

Combat Riflescopes Overseas [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]– On June 25, 2010, Chou-Fu Ho was arrested after being indicted in the Southern District of California on charges of smuggling and illegally exporting military night vision systems to various locations overseas without the required State Department licenses. According to the indictment Ho illegally exported to Hong Kong and Japan combat riflescopes listed on the U.S. Munitions List without obtaining the required export licenses. Ho also allegedly attempted to illegally export combat riflescopes to Ireland, Austria and the United Arab Emirates. The investigation was conducted by ICE and DCIS.
[/FONT][/FONT]Rifle Scopes to Russia [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]– On Sept. 11, 2008, a grand jury in the Middle District of Pennsylvania indicted Boris Gavrilov, D&B Compas Ltd, and Kiflet Arm on charges of illegally exporting military-grade and dual-use rifle scopes to Russia without the required U.S. government licenses. Gavrilov is believed to be a resident of Israel. D&B Compas is located in Israel, while Kiflet Arm is located in Humboldt, Texas. Extradition proceedings for Gavrilov have commenced. The investigation was conducted by ICE and BIS.
　
[/FONT][/FONT]Big brother IS watching all right!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: as said before these people have absolutely no sense of humour about this sort of carry on over there anymore.
Dont say ye wernt warned!:eek:

Na' still would not be put off if i needed another scope or shooting gear, reckon its the seller taking the risk.
not paying tax in Ireland is ilegal but avoiding paying tax is not ilegal and all my scopes have been marked a value and yet they have not taxed me, i have always known the risk and have had the money there to cover the tax if needed i reckon the chance of making a great saving is worth the risk, but its not even a risk you'll just end up saving notting.......

Norwayviking

arrowloopboy wrote: »

Theres a few guys on here with paranoia and think that big brother is constantly watching them:rolleyes:.

Its all very simple if you go about it right.

I wouldnt call it Paranoia,its better safe then sorry:D

Cass

Tackleberry. wrote: »

............ not paying tax in Ireland is ilegal but avoiding paying tax is not illegal ................

Yes it is.

There is a difference between avoiding paying tax and not getting hit with a tax bill. One is a purposeful act by a person to avoid it, the other is an oversight on the behalf of the relevant body to apply the tax. So if you order something and do everything within your ability to avoid having to pay taxes (whatever those methods are) then thats illegal. If you order something and it comes via normal shipping methods, but is not stopped and you do not get a tax bill then thats simply icing on the cake and no wrong doing on your behalf.

Also there is a rule for the shooting forum ( Rule#8 ) which specifically deals with this issue. It states "avoidance of paying taxes".

With regards to the claim that all this stems from paranoia by some users well i don't believe that for a moment. This is not some made up "what ifs" to scare people. I don't work for customs so its no skin off my nose whether tax is paid or not. What i am going on is the stories both here and told to me in person of people complaining that items they have ordered are either not getting through or they are getting hit with custom/tax bills where they never got them before.

Its a notice of the possibilities rather than random scaremongering.

pedroeibar1

Ezridax wrote: »

Yes it is.

No it is not! You are wrong, because you are using the wrong words.

Tack is right; there is nothing illegal with avoiding taxes, and people pay accountants large sums to help them do it all the time. Tax evasion is illegal.

That said, most of us have had stuff shipped from the US and have smiled when it got through without a fee. Personally I expect to have it stopped and factor-in that amount when comparing prices.

Grizz is quite right about the jackboot at the door, it is not worth the risk to put a family member in that position. While his examples might be a bit extreme (they relate mainly to ‘Commie’ countries, night vision, etc., ) I’ve had a couple of experiences with the powers that be at US airports on simple INS matters that once left me held in custody overnight until a DC contact got me out and on the second occasion left me without my passport for a month and an appearance in court Downtown to get it back. You do not mess with those guys, many might be dumb gits earning not much more than the minimum wage but they have the power to screw you and most will do and relish it, particularly if you are appear to be earning more than them.
Rs
P.

Cass

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

No it is not! You are wrong, because you are using the wrong words.

Tack is right; there is nothing illegal with avoiding taxes, and people pay accountants large sums to help them do it all the time. Tax evasion is illegal.

My apologies to Tackleberry, and thanks to pedroeibar for clarifying that for me. I was confusing tax evasion and tax avoision as the same thing when in fact they are not .

Again my apologies.

pedroeibar1

Ezridax wrote: »

Again my apologies.

No issues Ezri, it is actually a very fine line between the two. That's why it costs soooo much to get the advice to stay on the right side!;)
Rs
P.

Grizzly 45

Not to mind the "smart ones" are college trained idiots:eek:
[No joke!! ],but are well traind Appartchicks and are looking at climbing the Fed Gov goon career ladder ASAP.So any "busts" they make looks good for promotion and all the better if you can help them up the line,so future idiocy can be ensured.Things like people claiming airsofts can be converted to full auto m16s,let arms deals go off without a hitch to mexican drug lords so US border patrol agents can be shot,and God alone knows what else.Think if they can nail some well meaning innocent friend or family of yours for "arms exporting" that they wont??:(:rolleyes:

@Pbar.
Dunno if Ireland is a commie country,but we are getting there...the UK more than likely:D,and rather doubtful about Israel or Austria.
Just shows though even if these countries are "allied" to the US[Israel and the UK] they dont take prisioners there either.

Sparks

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

No it is not! You are wrong, because you are using the wrong words.

True... but the actual wording is "avoidance of taxes and duties" and refers to the VAT and import duties when shipping in goods from abroad; not income taxes and the like.
It's in there because people were giving advice on what carriers to use and what to write on packages to avoid those taxes and duties, which was strictly illegal...
...so it's kindof ironic to be discussing this point after some of the posts in this thread!
Still, it's a good point and we'll make it clearer in the charter for the next time.

Tackleberry.

Ezridax wrote: »

My apologies to Tackleberry, and thanks to pedroeibar for clarifying that for me. I was confusing tax evasion and tax avoision as the same thing when in fact they are not .

Again my apologies.

No prop the other half is a accountant

pedroeibar1

Sparks wrote: »

True... but the actual wording is "avoidance of taxes and duties" and refers to the VAT and import duties when shipping in goods from abroad; not income taxes and the like.
It's in there because people were giving advice on what carriers to use and what to write on packages to avoid those taxes and duties, which was strictly illegal...
...so it's kindof ironic to be discussing this point after some of the posts in this thread!
Still, it's a good point and we'll make it clearer in the charter for the next time.

I agree Sparks that it is a bit abstruse, particularly when some of the posts that went before were bordering on ‘evasion’ but the choice of words IS important. (Ezri's link to Rule 8 does not work BTW) Avoidance is legitimate – e.g. wrong/daft as it may seem, buying a share in the M.Y. Christina Onassis and off-setting part of the running costs (i.e. your summer holidays and more) against your tax liability is OK. Most of us pay into a pension the result which has tax avoidance benefits. I agree that telling people how to get around paying duty & VAT on bringing stuff into Ireland is evasion, and criminal.

What Grizz highlighted was the most important, that the US legal issue surrounding this (mail fraud) is very, very serious. Any US RFD or optics seller that would be worth dealing with would run a mile from anything near mail fraud because the consequences are so heavy. Asking a US based friend or family member to help in ‘bending’ values/invoices/descriptions is the act of a S#1t because the results are potentially so very harmful to the US-based individual.

My view is if you want something from the US collect it yourself when over there (overnight it to your hotel). Prepare to lose it on departing if your paperwork is not in order. On arrival in Ireland do not make a false declaration to C & E. If you are not in the US, have it shipped as purchased; if you get off the tax good luck to you, but be prepared to pay the Duty & VAT. Do not ask a friend/relative to ship to you, they could (probably would) end up in a heap of trouble.
Simple.:)
P.

Cass

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

(Ezri's link to Rule 8 does not work BTW)

Fixed that above now. Here it is too.

zeissman

I bought a good few scopes from www.theopticzone.com in the US.
When I place my order they apply for the export licence which usually takes about 4 weeks. When they get the licence they post my scope and all I have to worry about is how much customs will charge me.
The export licence lasts for 2 years so if I want another scope the same in a few months time they can send it right away. The scope has to be the exact same though or you will need another export licence.
They wont under value a parcel as they are liable to a 10000 dollar fine if found out.