Roscommon GAA Discussion Thread

Citycap

I think people will have to get real as regards what their individual counties can achieve.

As regards Roscommon, a county which I have great time for, they will have to look at their resources.

1. Compare the number of senior players they have versus those counties that are in the top 10 at present. Roscommon need all available players and can't afford to lose players because of personality differences, inter club rows etc. I think it is fair to say that if Ross had the St Bridgets players that they would have been promoted to Div.2. To begin progressing they really need to be at least Div 2 standard and holding their own there.

2. Finances. It is a small population with no major industry or business concern to step in as sponsor. The cost of running county teams has gone out of all kilter. Is there a need for all the background personnel? Tyrone, Donegal etc will say there is.

Despite resources every generation Roscommon produce players that are worth going to see. The great Dermot Earley, Junior McManus, Frankie Dolan, Donie Shine etc. I suppose the problem is that they don't produce enough to make a good panel.

Roscommon went on a few years ago to win a minor all Ireland beating Galway, Meath and Kerry on the way. If they can do it once they clearly have the potential to do it again.
Wexford went to an All Ireland semi through the backdoor in 2008?. If Ross can raise their standard to Division 2 league there is no reason why they can't see that type of progression. In short get promoted and put all effort into playing in Croke Park in August either by winning Connacht or by the qualifier. Once you have a pattern of August football its only a matter of kicking on to semis and hopefully finals.

Cosmo Kramer

I don't think Roscommon necessarily should look to Division two as a route to better competition. The standard in 2 might actually (strangely) be worse than the standard in 3 at the moment. If Ros go up next year it is likely that the two Division 1 teams dropping down (Donegal and Down) will have gone back up again by then with Westmeath almost certainly making a quick return to the second tier.

Syferus

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

I'm not judging him on one game Syferus. Not trying to assassinate his character or anything like that, just giving my view on his footballing ability - I don't think he is anything like as good as he is made out to be. I had formed that opinion long before today. Has a habit of going missing against better teams. I do accept your point though that it was harder for him to look good today in the circumstances - but I think a real top class forward, someone like Emlyn Mulligan or a fully fit Donie Shine, two players who I really rate, would still have managed to stand out regardless.

The only 'top teams' Kilbride has faced any time recently by virtue of our league position and his injuries pre-2010 have been Mayo 2011 (and at that point calling them that would have been a severe overstatement) where he was spear tackled to the ground on his shoulder by a Mayo player and had to get pain-killing injections at half-time just to play on and Tyrone 2011, while playing with server bruising from the same injury, in which he played exceptionally well.

He was more instrumental to our only good performance of 2012, beating Armagh than Donie but because Donie took the frees his stat sheet looks better for anyone looking back at the match on paper.

Make no mistake, we have a lot of inconsistent players but singling out Kilbride as someone who 'goes missing' against bigger teams shows a lack of knowledge of the player and indeed the performances of others around in him those same games.

Kilbride has a laid-back style of playing the game and that is what I think is at the root of the few complaints I've heard about him. He doesn't look like he's working hard or that he doesn't care but nothing could be further from the truth.

It's all about system and conditioning. We're not there on either count right now and we'll never be able to fully utilise the talent we have until we do.

Cosmo Kramer

Syferus wrote: »

It's all about system and conditioning. We're not there on either count right now and we'll never be able to fully utilise the talent we have until we do.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Kilbride. The reason I single him out is because he is a player who is consistently singled out by followers of Ros as a star man. Once that happens he is judged by higher standards - as I said earlier, that's not his fault.

Obviously system and conditioning had a role to play yesterday. However there needs to be a realisation that there is a gap in natural ability and skill levels between the two teams also at present, both in the starting 15 and in terms if strength in depth.

Strongbow10

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

We'll have to agree to disagree on Kilbride. The reason I single him out is because he is a player who is consistently singled out by followers of Ros as a star man. Once that happens he is judged by higher standards - as I said earlier, that's not his fault.

Obviously system and conditioning had a role to play yesterday. However there needs to be a realisation that there is a gap in natural ability and skill levels between the two teams also at present, both in the starting 15 and in terms if strength in depth.

Could not agree more. Theres this underlying belief that Roscommon have supreme talent at underage level.

The nature of GAA allows this skewed view to be prominent. Connacht football is pure crap at Senior level. Thats a fact and anyone disputing that hasn't got a clue.

There are countless Minor/Under 21 prodigees who have not cut the mustard at Senior level. Its not a foregone conclusion that we would win titles with strength and conditioning facilities. Its not going to happen either, the county is not going to cripple itself financially.

Theres alot more missing than a lack of strength and conditioning facilities. It seems every manager takes the slack for the group of players we have. Some of them are just simply not up to the task, and never will be unfortunately.

You can have all the strength and conditioning but if you cannot do the basics correctly then you are in trouble from the start. Mental strength has been a massive problem at senior level for a decade or more.

Dare I say it, the last connacht title win was an exception to the rule rather than a sign of things to come, given the fact we got as handy a draw as we could have hoped for.

Another thing that seems to be pushed is the fact that alot of our lads have Sigerson Cup experience. That also means damn all when it comes to playing Senior Inter county football. It means NOTHING.

nice_guy80

Strongbow10 wrote: »

Could not agree more. Theres this underlying belief that Roscommon have supreme talent at underage level.

The nature of GAA allows this skewed view to be prominent. Connacht football is pure crap at Senior level. Thats a fact and anyone disputing that hasn't got a clue.

There are countless Minor/Under 21 prodigees who have not cut the mustard at Senior level. Its not a foregone conclusion that we would win titles with strength and conditioning facilities. Its not going to happen either, the county is not going to cripple itself financially.

Theres alot more missing than a lack of strength and conditioning facilities. It seems every manager takes the slack for the group of players we have. Some of them are just simply not up to the task, and never will be unfortunately.

You can have all the strength and conditioning but if you cannot do the basics correctly then you are in trouble from the start. Mental strength has been a massive problem at senior level for a decade or more.

Dare I say it, the last connacht title win was an exception to the rule rather than a sign of things to come, given the fact we got as handy a draw as we could have hoped for.

Another thing that seems to be pushed is the fact that alot of our lads have Sigerson Cup experience. That also means damn all when it comes to playing Senior Inter county football. It means NOTHING.

Roscommon got within 2 points in 2011
what has changed since?
Roscommon have stayed at same level or gone backwards
while Mayo have pushed on and undergone huge development

Syferus

Lack of talent is the laziest excuse any pundit or poster can throw up, it really is up there with Spillane's greatest hits whn it comes to making a worthwhile point.

We have talented footballers. That doesn't mean they are great seniors. The problem has been and continues to be how do you take a lad who can beat his contemporaries at every grade coming up and suddenly at senior the script changes?

It'sa because money plays a bigger role, it's because getting the same level of dedication and expertise needed to compete is harder to find and get out of men in their mid-to-late twenties with jobs and families and God knows what else than it is to train teenagers with loads of free time and few responsibilities a couple times a week.

The demands on players, the cost to prepare them, the level of coaching, facilities and conditioning knowledge increases by magnitudes. It's the reason you see so many players opting to spend summers in the States and retiring early, the sheer effort it takes to be essentially an amateur professional athlete is beyond massive.

Underage success is a start but no one has said it's a silver bullet. Galway wasted two U21 AI winning teams, Mayo were in danger of doing similar, Armagh have had little up-tick from their successful minor teams. The reverse is true as well; Dublin, Cavan, Cork and Tyrone have improved their senior stock to differing degrees on the back of underage success and development. Indeed even we were in a better place now than we were when essentially started over in 2009. What it tells you is you have players that have the potential to compete at a high level. It's your responsibility to get them there as much as it is their's.

Talking about lack of talent or one county's players being of some bizarre superior breed may sound good in your heads but it really is the most hollow argument anyone could ever make and it adds absolutely towards what actually needs to be done to improve.

wow sierra

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Roscommon got within 2 points in 2011
what has changed since?
Roscommon have stayed at same level or gone backwards
while Mayo have pushed on and undergone huge development

I think Roscommon are about at the same level as 2011 or slightly better and Mayo are a lot better BUT.... and it's a huge but - I was at that game in 2011 and it was a shocking affair on an awful day. Roscommon were not on a level with Mayo then, any more than Sligo were last year when they also were only beaten by 2 points.

As for Roscommon in 2013 they were unlucky/sloppy in the League and would have got promoted if they hadn't conceded the last minute goal against Wicklow. They were only beaten by Meath and Fermanagh and the Meath game had two very dodgy goals also. But results are what counts and Roscommon came up short. It's a pity because they would improve in Div 2. A good run in the qualifiers would be good - they won't meet a better team than Mayo this year anyway - unless we get to a quarter final :rolleyes::)

naughto

where were all the talented footballers that you all call them on sunday Syferus if that was the best roscommon could do,no amount off money would help them.
you county board would would want to be ran out of roscommon,the state the ground is in is a disgrace to any one envolveld in roscommon football.
how they let it get so bad is beyound me.
is there no one in charge or does no one give a fu1ck about it.

a lot of posts are on about mayo being in 11 million in debt and yet they can still go to miami to winter training.i think its great that they can do this yes they are up to eyelids in debt but iam sure they have a number of yrs to pay it back.if they can get 20,000 in to machlae park for a simi final,iam sure that helped to pay the loan,as well as the number of league games that they had at home this yr.

wow sierra

naughto wrote: »

where were all the talented footballers that you all call them on sunday Syferus if that was the best roscommon could do,no amount off money would help them.
you county board would would want to be ran out of roscommon,the state the ground is in is a disgrace to any one envolveld in roscommon football.
how they let it get so bad is beyound me.
is there no one in charge or does no one give a fu1ck about it.

a lot of posts are on about mayo being in 11 million in debt and yet they can still go to miami to winter training.i think its great that they can do this yes they are up to eyelids in debt but iam sure they have a number of yrs to pay it back.if they can get 20,000 in to machlae park for a simi final,iam sure that helped to pay the loan,as well as the number of league games that they had at home this yr.

County ground is shared with a club at the moment and until the status of the ground is sorted out they can't get funding to improve it. The situation is being sorted out at the moment and it should improve. Roscommon have a tiny population and have been hit very heavily by the recession - as have many of the weaker counties in GAA. It is causing the gap to expand.The size and population of Mayo and the money available is huge compared with Roscommon. The big guns in Connaught GAA are also trying to keep the money spinning games in Galway and Mayo and they are getting their way - hopefully if the Hyde gets sorted out it will improve things. The 20k attendance on Sunday is a testament to the loyal GAA fans in Roscommon and Mayo and shows how important the Connaught championship is to the fans - even yesterday when the result was a foregone conclusion.

blowitupref

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

We'll have to agree to disagree on Kilbride. The reason I single him out is because he is a player who is consistently singled out by followers of Ros as a star man. Once that happens he is judged by higher standards - as I said earlier, that's not his fault.

Obviously system and conditioning had a role to play yesterday. However there needs to be a realisation that there is a gap in natural ability and skill levels between the two teams also at present, both in the starting 15 and in terms if strength in depth.

Strength and conditioning is the big difference between the sides and the workrate throughout the Mayo team is something Roscommon need to look at because i think they have plenty of natural ability themselves it's just a matter on working on it and putting the right system in place.

Cosmo Kramer

Syferus wrote: »

Talking about lack of talent or one county's players being of some bizarre superior breed may sound good in your heads but it really is the most hollow argument anyone could ever make and it adds absolutely towards what actually needs to be done to improve.

Now that I agree with. I'm not saying that Mayo people are somehow more naturally born talented footballers than Roscommon or any other county - of course they're not. But what you are basically saying is that all teams are equal and it's only how you condition yourself and set up that matters. That's obviously not the case.

At the moment the Mayo panel has more talent in it than most counties, Roscommon included. That hasn't always been the case (take the 1970s as a case in point - we were ****e, you were excellent) and it won't always be the case, but it's the way things are at the moment. Conditioning and game plan will only get you so far, natural ability is needed to get to the very top. Mayo have plenty of it right now, but we don't know yet if we have enough. We have a 3-4 year window now to make it happen with the players we have, hopefully we can do it. Unfortunately you don't have enough of that at the moment and you need to realise that - but that's not to say that will always be the case. I'm sure there will be times to come when the shoe is on the other foot, but right now this is just the way things are.

Syferus

We beat the Sligo minors yesterday to make the Connacht final, not a vintage performance by any means but an eighth Connacht final in ten years after only two in the previous ten is a testament to the good work we've been doing at underage. The Mayo/Galway semi is on before London-Leitrim II at the Hyde on Sunday so it'd be worth snakin' in early if you're headed to that one.

yabadabado

5 dropped from the team that started against Mayo for tomorrow's game . All the full forward line dropped from what I heard this evening.

Syferus

yabadabado wrote: »

5 dropped from the team that started against Mayo for tomorrow's game . All the full forward line dropped from what I heard this evening.

Nope, that was a dummy team that got leaked somehow. Even in that one Donie Smith was still there so the whole full-forward line wasn't dropped in it either.

The official, God-fearing, @gaaroscommon-endorsed starting line-up for tomorrow:

1 Darren O’Malley (CLG Michael Mac Laithimh)

2 Neil Collins (Naomh Caoimhin, Cáislean Riabhach)
3 Niall Carty (Na Piarsaigh)
4 Seánie McDermott (Gaeil an Iarthair)

5 David Keenan (Naomh Bearraí)
6 Niall Daly (Na Phiarsaigh)
7 Conor Daly (Na Phiarsaigh)

8 Cathal Shine (Clann na nGael)
9 Mango (Naomh Bríd)

10 Kevin Higgins (Gaeil an Iarthair)
11 Big Donie (Clann na nGael)
12 Cathal Cregg (C) (Gaeil an Iarthair)

13 Little Donie (Mainistir na Buille)
14 Senan Kilbride (Naomh Bríd)
15 Conor Devaney (Cill Bhríde)

So, Cathal Shine in for Finn and Donie Shine in for David O'Gara with positional switches for Mango, Higgins and Devaney.

Big surprise for me is that Ian Kilbride isn't starting, Evans had said he was training fully and he'd be the first HB/defensive HF on the team sheet for me.

yabadabado

Syferus wrote: »

Nope, that was a dummy team that got leaked somehow. Even in that one Donie Smith was still there so the whole full-forward line wasn't dropped in it either.

The official, God-fearing, @gaaroscommon-endorsed starting line-up for tomorrow:

1 Darren O’Malley (CLG Michael Mac Laithimh)

2 Neil Collins (Naomh Caoimhin, Cáislean Riabhach)
3 Niall Carty (Na Piarsaigh)
4 Seánie McDermott (Gaeil an Iarthair)

5 David Keenan (Naomh Bearraí)
6 Niall Daly (Na Phiarsaigh)
7 Conor Daly (Na Phiarsaigh)

8 Cathal Shine (Clann na nGael)
9 Mango (Naomh Bríd)

10 Kevin Higgins (Gaeil an Iarthair)
11 Big Donie (Clann na nGael)
12 Cathal Cregg (C) (Gaeil an Iarthair)

13 Little Donie (Mainistir na Buille)
14 Senan Kilbride (Naomh Bríd)
15 Conor Devaney (Cill Bhríde)

So, Cathal Shine in for Finn and Donie Shine in for David O'Gara with positional switches for Mango, Higgins and Devaney.

Big surprise for me is that Ian Kilbride isn't starting, Evans had said he was training fully and he'd be the first HB/defensive HF on the team sheet for me.

Ian K is starting
No S Kilbare M Finneran,D O'Gara or K Higgins tomorrow and brogan is on the team .C Daly is half forward.

Syferus

yabadabado wrote: »

Ian K is starting
No S Kilbare M Finneran,D O'Gara or K Higgins tomorrow and brogan is on the team .C Daly is half forward.

Source? Everyone's already been burnt on this one.

yabadabado

Syferus wrote: »

Source? Everyone's already been burnt on this one.

It came from a starter today. If it's bull**** fair enough but thats what he told me.

Syferus

yabadabado wrote: »

It came from a starter today. If it's bull**** fair enough but thats what he told me.

Fair enough. I heard Donie Smith has a virus so he's unlikely to start - if true that'd make replacing the entire FF line very believable.

megadodge

Not long back from Tullamore and have to say I'm thrilled with the display.

No doubt Roscommon were the better footballers in terms of comfort on the ball and decisiveness. After the early goals Kildare were always going to find it difficult and they certainly tried hard, but the longer it went the more panicky they became (typical minors - lack that hardcore experience).

Roscommon were able to break them down consistenly around their half-forward line and prevent it getting into what looked like a dangerous full-forward line. In this regard Ultan Harney was just magnificent, carrying the ball out of defense over and over again and linking up intelligently with the forwards. The team as a whole worked terrifically hard, but did look very tired for the last 15 minutes or so. The sending off (correctly so, very stupid second card) undoubtedly had a bearing on this, but I'd be slightly worried in that regard.

I think the Tyrone/Ros semi winner will win it out, as Mayo beat a poor Westmeath side handily, but didn't really impress and Ros should really have beaten them in the Connacht final. I also thought Monaghan were the second best side on the pitch in the Ulster final. They showed great character to come back from 8 points down, but I think it was a once off. Tyrone are very strong.

Anyway, the main thing is we're producing strong teams every year and that's vital for longterm competitiveness at senior.

Dublin Red Devil

Well done to the young men of Roscommon on their win over kildare today

Syferus

Time to start packing the supplies for the trip to the big smoke, can never be too prepared

Hopefully a similar result to the last trip up on St. Paddy's!

yop

Anyone drop a jumper...

http://thedailyedge.thejournal.ie/roscommon-match-good-jumper-1024262-Aug2013/?utm_source=twitter_self

Syferus

yop wrote: »

Anyone drop a jumper...

http://thedailyedge.thejournal.ie/roscommon-match-good-jumper-1024262-Aug2013/?utm_source=twitter_self

That's a fine piece of craftsmanship, to fair. Looks a little like something a Galway fancy dan would wear, though. No good for bringing home the turf in.

Syferus

Here's some photos from yesterday - usually if we're doing mighty there's an inverse amount of photographs taken but I think I managed to get a few good ones from the ones I did take:



I noticed Fergie wears a Sierra era Bainisteoir top, could it be a lucky souvenir from 2006 or 2010?



Kildare's programming must have been accidentally switched to rugby mode:





The first Roscommon goal scored yesterday afternoon:





This lad seems pretty good:











I love the ladeen decked out in all the Ros gear waving a flag twice his size:



Some cynical stuff there by John Gannon, decking two poor Kildare bucks at once:



Tadgh O'R practising his tackling technique on Cathal Compton:

sting60

Minors now 15/8 fav to win the All-Ireland.

megadodge

sting60 wrote: »

Minors now 15/8 fav to win the All-Ireland.

Yeah, I heard that and I think it's more a reaction to the team that beat the team that had all the money on them than actually being the best remaining team. I heard that bookies in Kildare weren't too disappointed in the result. In one Kildare bookies Ros were 11/2 to win the last day!

Syferus

http://hoganstand.com/Roscommon/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=198298

The good jumper's on it's way back to its owner. Unreal week for the Ros.

Syferus

Off to Jackeen land tomorrow morning. There's not many things in life better than September football but I can think of one.

Let's right the wrongs of last year. Thoughts only on Tyrone.

rosknight

What did you think of Fergal O'Donnells interview after the game???